Most reliable combat 9mm TORTURE TEST!


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Irfan
August 14, 2008, 06:06 PM
No test results here but who is ready to do it? We argue every day here online about which pistol is most relible and which one will do better in adverse conditions but why doesn't somebody run his own torture tests using as many as he can find of all today's 9mm pistols? All we need is one Beretta 92FS, SIG Sauer P226, Glock 17, XD-9, HK USP9 and I also think we must include a CZ-75/85 and M&P. We need just a little of sand, mud and water and few hundreds of 9mm ammo!
Then we can expose all these pistols to different kinds of military tests including: ice test, drop test, firing them while they are totally degreesed and dry and so on. After each test we should fire no more than just three magazines! After that we would know which one is really the best performer and also we would know the worst one.
Now, who is going to do it? :o

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csd4682
August 14, 2008, 06:15 PM
I would love to see these kind of results. Im happy some people still consider 9mm a combat round. It has always been my favorite, I never really saw the point in a .40 and I'm too small of a person to conceal a 45acp. I am becoming very interested in the taurus pt1911, seems like a great deal, but I will start a seperate post for that topic.

BlindJustice
August 14, 2008, 06:31 PM
I wouldn't want to do that to one of my own guns, as far as the
mud and sand goes.

I did get a CZ 75B about 3 months ago, I had the gun dealer I bought it
from get the factory grease off of it. Since then I shot it with every kind of
bullet weight and type /brand I've found to buy.... I didn't clean it for the
first time until it got to the 670 total through it - up to that point
it had no FTF/FTE just 100 % reliable. I cleaned it just to see
about the innards. Easy to dis-assemble/assemble with no bushing
and no barrel link - fwiw. Great gun and very accurate.

R-

KBintheSLC
August 14, 2008, 07:20 PM
I wouldn't want to do that to one of my own guns

Ditto... maybe if I was a famed gun writer I could scrounge up some samples from the various manufacturers. However, as a working class peasant in todays world, I don't see myself sacrificing my own weapons for such a test.

If I had to guess though, my money would be on either the Sig226 or the Glock17.

Bartkowski
August 14, 2008, 07:23 PM
I'll tell you what, I will do the tests if you provide the guns and ammo.

michiganfan
August 14, 2008, 07:25 PM
IIRC some guy over on glocktalk put a G20 through hell and back and it still went bang. He even dropped from an airplane.

Bartkowski
August 14, 2008, 07:27 PM
Ya, I saw that. He put it in sand, mud, water, and then mixed all three together. Dropped if from a plane, and I believe even used salt water and baby powder. Anyway the gun functioned very well after every test.

michiganfan
August 14, 2008, 07:37 PM
Thats the one just went over there aad it was G21 not 20.

burningsquirrels
August 14, 2008, 08:18 PM
these tests are fun to plan but the problem is the money to pay for all of it :eek:

i'm sure all of us would be GLAD to do the tasting :) don't forget to don the heatproof gloves and bake 'em for an hour at 180 degrees. :) heck, heat cycle them. bake, freeze, bake, freeze, bake, freeze repeatedly. they do it for airbag testing.

thegoodfight
August 14, 2008, 08:20 PM
i'm sure all of us would be GLAD to do the tasting

mmm glock parmesan

burningsquirrels
August 14, 2008, 08:27 PM
we could of course, all test the guns individually, so we all get to play with them. what can be more torturous than a bunch of internet dudes each willing to beat the crap out of them and the USPS service to move them around between people? :D :D :D

rob45
August 14, 2008, 08:42 PM
Pretty much every gun mentioned in the original post has been on the scene long enough (and most of them thoroughly put through their paces as to make a torture test sorta a mute point. Most people rarely need to break a gun out of a block of ice to use it to put down 20,000 zombies or bg's. Buy any one of those guns and maintain them according to your environment and you will be fine and so will the gun. Will any of my guns go 1000 rounds without cleaning with no malfunction? I don't know...probably. I don't care because when I get a new gun I take it home, clean it up and degrease the barrel and start with a clean gun. I don't abuse them and don't see a need to. I just buy guns that have already been proven and take care of them.

lamazza
August 14, 2008, 08:56 PM
XD-9 torture test

http://springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory11.php

2 links found here beretta 92 and glock 17 torture tests
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94991

USP test
http://www.streetpro.com/usp/torture.html
Sig 226 test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kgjmtj9TgX8



Glock Torture test
http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90&Item

Loomis
August 14, 2008, 09:06 PM
Probably a stainless SAA with firing pin on the hammer and no hammer blocking safety device of any kind would turn out to be the most durable and reliable.

everallm
August 14, 2008, 09:28 PM
You mean a torture test like the CZ P-01 has....?

Must be able to complete the following without failure:

4000 dry firings
3000 De-cockings
Operator level disassembly 1350 times with out wear or damage to components.
Complete disassembly 150 times, this is all the way down, pins, springs etc.
100% interchangeability, any number of pistols randomly selected, disassembled, parts mixed and reassembled with no failures of any kind including loss of accuracy.


Safety requirements:

Drop test
1.5 meter (4.9”) drop test, this is done 54 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked. Dropping the pistol on the butt, the muzzle, back of the slide, sides of the gun, top of the slide, in essence, any angle that you could drop the gun from. This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

3meter drop (9.8”) 5 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked, This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

After these tests are complete the gun must fire without service.

The factory contracted an independent lab to do additional testing on guns that previously passed the drop tests. These pistol were dropped an additional 352 times without failure.

The pistol must also complete an environmental conditions test:
This means cold, heat, dust/sand and mud.
The pistol must fire after being frozen for 24 hours at –35C (-36F).
The pistol must fire after being heated for 24 hours at 70C (126F)
The pistol must fire after being submerged in mud, sand and combinations including being stripped of oil then completing the sand and mud tests again.

Service life:
The service life requirement from the Czech police was 15,000 rounds of +P ammo.
The pistol will exceed 30,000 rounds with ball 9mm.

Reliability:
The reliability requirements for the P-01 pistol are 99.8%, that’s a .2% failure rate.
This equals 20 stoppages in 10,000 rounds or 500 “Mean Rounds Between Failure” (MRBF)
During testing, the average number of stoppages was only 7 per 15,000 rounds fired, this is a .05% failure rate, a MRBF rate of 2142 rounds! Over 4 time the minimum acceptable requirement.
The U.S. Army MRBF requirement is 495 rounds for 9mm pistols with 115 grain Ball ammunition.

Guns and more
August 14, 2008, 09:49 PM
Good God! My guns get wiped down with a soft cloth if they have a spec of dust on them. Then stored in a nice warm safe. Or under my pillow as a reward.

DWARREN123
August 14, 2008, 10:32 PM
Take the firearm you want to teast as a combat handgun and do 12 months in a combat area. It will tell you how it does.
Most of these test on the internet do not tell you how a decently treated firearm will do and in combat you will take good care of your firearms.

Old Dog
August 14, 2008, 10:38 PM
OP saidWe argue every day here online about which pistol is most relible and which one will do better in adverse conditions but why doesn't somebody run his own torture tests using as many as he can find of all today's 9mm pistols?

Why bother? As lamazza documented, the "torture tests" have already been done ... and done again, and again and again ...

I'm pretty well assured that any new H&K, SIG, Beretta, CZ, Glock, S&W or SA XD is gonna provide me all the reliability I require ... and have I mentioned that I even own a Taurus PT-92 AFS-D (bought new in 1991) that's never, ever, not once, had a malfunction of any sort, with about 20 thousand rounds through it?

I've owned, and/or been issued (in combat zones and the street) for real-world use, H&Ks, SIGs, Berettas, CZ-75s and Glocks ... I've no qualms whatsoever regarding reliability of 9mm pistols from any of these makers (though some I favor over others), and I know enough about the S&W M&Ps and the SA XDs to believe that I don't need to see any silly "torture tests" on these pistols before I'd carry one.

The Lone Haranguer
August 14, 2008, 11:27 PM
Let's not, and say we did. :neener:

It would take a team of several people (shooters, magazine reloaders, etc.) and a stack of Franklins to buy the ammo needed. Few of us have such resources.

Mandirigma
August 15, 2008, 12:41 PM
Take the firearm you want to teast as a combat handgun and do 12 months in a combat area Funny, I'd be using my rifle in a "combat area" but I get what you are trying to say.

Me and a few of the guys chipped in and bought a first gen glock 17 when those "torture tests" were posted.

Part way through all that we realized our own sidearms wouldn't ever get subjected to that treatment in normal or abnormal wear or carry. We were still determined to destroy it.

Other than replacement of small parts (slide stop, recoil guide rod) the thing worked fine. Since then I've drank the kool-aid.

XDKingslayer
August 15, 2008, 12:49 PM
Combat 9mm?

What service uses the XD9?

schmeky
August 15, 2008, 02:57 PM
Good God! My guns get wiped down with a soft cloth if they have a spec of dust on them. Then stored in a nice warm safe. Or under my pillow as a reward.

I love that. You sound like me.

There was a not to long ago 1,000 round test between the 1911 pattern guns and Glock's. Of all the people that particiapted, only 2 guns made to 1k rounds with no malfunctions: 1 - Colt 1991 (the billboard colt) and 1 - Glock

All the other 1911/Glock entries choked. Says a lot.

tinygnat219
August 15, 2008, 09:04 PM
Considering that I will never put my guns into a cannon and fire them across a field, or freeze them, etc. I clean them after each range trip, and I clean my carry gun every 2 weeks to get any lint buildup out of the barrel.

jon_in_wv
August 16, 2008, 03:41 PM
I think the torture tests are really over hyped. The GLockophiles tout them as PROOF that Glocks are best but they ignore the fact that most guns could also survive the same tests. THese tests are never done head to head, they are for marketing hype.

JBP55
August 16, 2008, 08:05 PM
I think Old Dog said it best. I do not know how to quote his reply in this forum.

GRB
August 16, 2008, 08:11 PM
I liked the test the U.S. Air Force did throught he 70s into the early 80s. They conducted a test for a 9mm to replace the 45. No othe rpistol finished even clodse to the winner. Only two of several models of pistol passed. The winner had double the score of the second place finsiher. The winner was the Beretta 92. If I remember rightly, the 2nd place pistol was a S&W, or a Sig, but don't quote me on that because it was long ago. I remember who won first place because I bought my first 9MM pistol after that test, the Beretta 92SB. Shortly after that the U.S. Army conducted further testing saying the original tests by the Air Force were faulty. The Army supposedly rigged the test to favor the Colt 45. Guess what - not one gun passed this test but the Beretta did better than did the cColt. They tried again - pretty much the same results. The Army test were severely flawed in their subjectivity. The Air Force tests were quite objective. I read about the entire test in SOF magazine - which back then was a pretty good magazine, especially with regards to reporting on military actions in unheard of places, and on military weaponry. Subsequent to that I later obtained a copy of what was supposedly actual military docs on the test. Same results as reported in SOF. The test was grueling, the Beretta the shining winner. Some other makers who had guns in that test were SIG, HK, Star, S &W, Colt, and so on. There were many pistols tested.

All the best,
Glenn B

rob45
August 16, 2008, 09:00 PM
The winner was the Beretta 92. If I remember rightly, the 2nd place pistol was a S&W, or a Sig, but don't quote me on that because it was long ago.

I believe it was the Sig 226.

I have a 92FS and it's a fantastic pistol. I need to spend more time practicing DA to SA transition with it though. It is THE smoothest shooting pistol I've ever fired, much less owned and I wouldn't take for it. I need to find a good Brigadier model to give it a companion:)

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