Child locks himself in gun vault


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Blarelli
August 15, 2008, 01:13 AM
Happening right now at a Dicks Sporting Goods in Utah. They are trying to drill holes into the vault right now before he runs out of air.

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Huddog
August 15, 2008, 01:15 AM
Noone knows the combination????

Owen Sparks
August 15, 2008, 01:18 AM
I hope they make his parents pay for the damages. Parents should be held responsible for the actions of improperly supervised children.

Blarelli
August 15, 2008, 01:18 AM
Guess not, and the local news isn't showing it. The local NBC station has it on there website, but they won't cut from the olympics to say anything. Hope it turns out ok.

Blarelli
August 15, 2008, 01:20 AM
I hope they make his parents pay for the damages. Parents should be held responsible for the actions of improperly supervised children.

I don't know man. I think Dicks may be in for a huge lawsuit. Every store I've ever been to that has gun vaults on the floor have the locking mechanism disabled, or various safeties installed to make it so the door can't close.

Huddog
August 15, 2008, 01:21 AM
I agree on the parents being responsible. My first response if fact was what is he doing at Dick's at midnight but then I relaized the time zone difference.

W.E.G.
August 15, 2008, 01:24 AM
A Dicks safe?

Shouldn't take long to get that open.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBhOjWHbD6M&feature=related

Gunsby_Blazen
August 15, 2008, 01:28 AM
The parents are to blame, but not for the vault locking. The store is perhaps at fault for that. They should have it in locked position so that kind of thing cant happen. Someone should at least know the combination...
I would hate for the kid to get injured in there from lack of air. that would be just horrible.

Actually, I don't think anyone should get in trouble over this...
... that is if we lived in a sane world where no one tried to blame everyone else.

JasonM_PA
August 15, 2008, 01:28 AM
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700251047,00.html

plexreticle
August 15, 2008, 01:31 AM
A porta power should make short work out of that door.

The Tourist
August 15, 2008, 01:34 AM
This is not isolated.

I used to set up my sharpening stand in the gun department of Gander Mountain East. Their gun vault section was in that same area.

While the parents were who-knows-where, the kids used to run around the store, and many of them would spin the knobs or twist the handles on the vaults.

Some tried to hide in them when playing with siblings.

The irony was that the keys to these vaults were usually kept on the top inside shelf of the vault. Any kid pulling the door shut would have also locked himself inside with the keys to free himself.

I felt bad if I witnessed this but had a client come at the same time.

And there's bad history. I witnessed a young girl pull a blackpowder rifle down from a rack and split her scalp with the front sight. My wife had to search the store to find the parents...

W.E.G.
August 15, 2008, 01:34 AM
Under 40 minutes.

There you have it.

The_Sheriff
August 15, 2008, 01:34 AM
I guess that's what they mean by "Project Child Safe" lol!

I hope he's ok.

CRITGIT
August 15, 2008, 01:35 AM
I see the words lawsuit, blame, damages, irresonsible etc!

Shouldn't the child's well being be first and formost here?:rolleyes:


CRITGIT

trashpickinman
August 15, 2008, 01:44 AM
When I worked at Dicks, though I didn't work directly in the 'Lodge' area, sometimes I did have to cover for people going to lunch or something like that. I was always told to keep the safes completely closed and locked at all times unless a customer was looking at a specific model. Also, I can't remember exactly where now, but somewhere easily accessible (at least by the associates) were the combinations to the safe.

It shouldn't have happened, but I'm glad the 3 kids are safe.

The Tourist
August 15, 2008, 01:49 AM
This is one of those circumstances where I do believe the store should not be blamed.

The parents are responsible for their kids, and the kids didn't drive themselves to the store.

The job of the employees is to sell merchandise, not babysit.

Technically, a kid could hang himself from one of my trees while I'm in here talking to you.

jakemccoy
August 15, 2008, 01:51 AM
I don't think he was in danger of running out of air. Typical cheap safes are not airtight until on fire, right? Anyway, a crowbar to the edge to make a gap would have been a quick fix. There had to have been a crow bar around.

brigadier
August 15, 2008, 02:01 AM
I think that if I got locked in a vault full of guns and ammo, I would let myself out. LOL.

Jorg Nysgerrig
August 15, 2008, 02:07 AM
If you read the article linked by JasonM, it was 3 kids locked in there by a fourth. Regardless, this doesn't seem to be particularly related to firearms unless they shot their way out. ;) It's not like it was Baby Jessica all over again.

Rubber_Duck
August 15, 2008, 02:08 AM
Nevermind.

bogie
August 15, 2008, 03:16 AM
They let the kid out? Before it turned 18?

Damn.

jakemccoy
August 15, 2008, 03:19 AM
.....................

leadcounsel
August 15, 2008, 03:30 AM
I've occasionally worried about getting robbed, being forced to open my safe and then getting locked in by a nefarious criminal. What a rotten way to go.

JohnKSa
August 15, 2008, 03:54 AM
Child locks himself in gun vaultUmm... No.

I've never seen a gun safe that allowed manipulation of the locking mechanism from the inside. Maybe there are some out there but I doubt that's a common design.

The child may have gotten into the safe by himself but the odds are very heavily against him locking himself in there. Someone had to work the handle from the outside.

Elza
August 15, 2008, 04:22 AM
The Tourist: The parents are responsible for their kids,According to Hillary the village is responsible! :barf: (My response to her and her comment.)

CRITGIT
August 15, 2008, 05:06 AM
According to Hillary the village is responsible! (My response to her and her comment.)
__________________

In the good old days before we had what we have today we all looked out for one another's children more. If that's a "villiage" then so be it...It's just the truth regardless of who's credited with saying it!

CRITGIT

GingerGuy
August 15, 2008, 08:16 AM
With the behavior of many kids at stores today, and the parents not doing a darn thing to control said behavior...I think all stores should have gun safes for sale...:)

Guns and more
August 15, 2008, 09:14 AM
How do you lock yourself in a safe? Mine doesn't lock by itself, and there is no access to the mechanism inside the door. Maybe he had help.

Fred West
August 15, 2008, 10:12 AM
How do you lock yourself in a safe? Mine doesn't lock by itself, and there is no access to the mechanism inside the door. Maybe he had help.

A group of boys were at Dick's Sporting Goods in The Gateway when three boys climbed inside a gun safe and another boy closed the door behind them, said Salt Lake Fire spokesman Scott Freitag.

clarence222
August 15, 2008, 11:37 AM
Fort Knox vault doors have release mechanisms on the inside, not sure about regular safes thuogh

Wedge
August 15, 2008, 11:38 AM
An RSC held up for 40 mins???

Double Naught Spy
August 15, 2008, 11:46 AM
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=4018140

see video too

.cheese.
August 15, 2008, 11:56 AM
well, now I understand why Outdoor World keeps all their safes closed and locked.

I never realized anybody would try to lock themselves in.

a1abdj
August 15, 2008, 12:26 PM
Most gun safes are not anywhere near air tight, but 3 kids inside are consuming a lot of oxygen, especially if in panic mode. The electrical access hole, or bottom bolt holes make excellent places to insert an oxygen tube.

I did not read the article, but keep in mind that the fire department was probably trying not to injure the kids inside. There were plenty of faster options available to them, but those options may have been dangerous to the occupants.

Wedge
August 15, 2008, 12:49 PM
a1abdj, I figured as much that they didn't want to hurt the kids so they didn't grab a concrete saw and zip it open.

Figure that this would have been a perfect use of the jaws of life though. 4' pry bar to get it started and then use the hydraulic ram to pop open the door. I have to assume that the 40 minutes included setup time, etc. of the fire department.

Drgong
August 15, 2008, 01:40 PM
I think the kids need to wash cars or mow lawns and earn enough cash to pay for the safe that had to be ruined....

XDKingslayer
August 15, 2008, 01:43 PM
This would have never happened with a trigger lock....


Sorry. Couldn't resist.

bnkrazy
August 15, 2008, 02:27 PM
From the article:
The vault had a fail-safe, a common combination that should open every lock in the store, but it didn't work.

So, is that the case with all RSCs sold from a big box store? If they indeed do all have a failsafe combination (that actually works), is it disabled when purchased? I've never heard of that.

M14/11B
August 15, 2008, 03:26 PM
Keep the kids in line. I used to sell appliances--refrigerators and chest freezers and furniture. Kids would do unbelievable things to the merchandise and the parents wouldn't say a word. I had to ask a few people to mind their kids or please leave.

gp911
August 15, 2008, 04:06 PM
I'm with the blame the parents crowd.

Supervise.Your.Kids.

When I worked in retail (a speed shop, no less) people would turn kids loose in there to destroy whatever they wanted and not even hold them accountable if caught. Case in point: A collectible item in original box listed at $100. Kid tears the packaging open. When confronted by those of us who caught him he lies to us and his grandpa and grandpa just gives him the sad eyes of disappointment while walking out of the store. Granted that's more than some kids got, but it does little to stop the problem. Kids climb on rickety displays, pull things off of high shelves, run without looking while retail hooks are jutting out at eye level... Parents = oblivious.

If anything the kids are lucky somebody actually noticed they were locked in the RSC. Between the oblivious parents and the loud music at some gun shops it's a wonder they made it!

/rant

gp911

bogie
August 15, 2008, 04:29 PM
Would have really been an easy problem to fix...

http://cgi.ebay.com/2002-Lincoln-SAE-400-Diesel-Welder-on-Trailer_W0QQitemZ250279930014QQihZ015QQcategoryZ113743QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

rondog
August 15, 2008, 04:42 PM
I found a big rolling toolchest set at a store that was perfect, just what I was looking for. But the only one they had was the one on display on the floor.

I refused to buy it and made them order me a new one in the box, because it was OBVIOUS that kids had been pulling the drawers out and climbing on them, several were clearly bent and warped. This was a $1000 toolchest that was ruined and unsellable because of that.

Owen Sparks
August 15, 2008, 05:00 PM
What happens when you have professional lawyers in the legislature making law? The party capable of paying the largest judgment is held responsible.

esq_stu
August 15, 2008, 05:24 PM
What happens when you have professional lawyers in the legislature making law? The party capable of paying the largest judgment is held responsible.
Like it or not, if the kids had been hurt, this case would be a winner for the parents.

It is totally foreseeable that kids would try this and it would be plenty easy for the store to prevent it. I agree the parents should be watching their children, but this is a case where people invited to a business property for the benefit of the store owner are generally entitled (under the law) to expect reasonable warnings and precautions by the owner. No jury would find leaving a safe open or easily locked to be a reasonable precaution.

If it happened to your kids, sure, you'd be mad at yourself, but you would still demand your pound of flesh.

CRITGIT
August 15, 2008, 05:34 PM
..and that why they call 'em "DICK'S!"

CRITGIT

Claude Clay
August 15, 2008, 05:38 PM
good that the unsupervised children are ok. personal responsibility vrs a lawyer or 3. my bet is Dick's is already offering 'the injured' parties plenty so as to avoid court. better Dick's should present the 4 youths parents a bill for damages and lost business incurred because of their childrens actions. and the fire department needs to recoup its costs also.....

the madness must end

KBintheSLC
August 15, 2008, 05:41 PM
I love Utah... the things folks do around here never cease to amaze me.

If it happened to your kids, sure, you'd be mad at yourself, but you would still demand your pound of flesh.

It would be better if the parents just went home and quietly "pounded their flesh". ;)

proud2deviate
August 15, 2008, 05:43 PM
They need one of these;
http://www.joelriggs.com/blog/uploaded_images/espressoPuppy-782720.jpg

esq_stu
August 15, 2008, 05:49 PM
They need one of these;
LOL

Hmmmm, seems like someone gave my granddaughter both.

rondog
August 15, 2008, 05:55 PM
I've never found a gun safe on display to be open anyway. Always irritated me because I couldn't look inside, but now I know why they're locked.

Someone could also smash their fingers pretty good with one too. That would REALLY suck for a child to get his/her hand smashed. Two or more kids around an open safe is a recipe for disaster.

Mrs. Armoredman
August 15, 2008, 07:38 PM
The parents are responsible for thier kids actions. They should have kept thier kids right with them instead of letting them run around the store. I do agree the they should have kept the safe's closed until a customer wanted to look at one.

FCFC
August 15, 2008, 07:46 PM
No jury would find leaving a safe open or easily locked to be a reasonable precaution.

Depends on the applicable law. That's part of the trial process and the judge's instructions to the jury.


If it happened to your kids, sure, you'd be mad at yourself, but you would still demand your pound of flesh.

I think you are probably right on this one. People, even stalwart 2Aers, are affected when they gobble a few instant greed pills.

a1abdj
August 15, 2008, 11:11 PM
So, is that the case with all RSCs sold from a big box store? If they indeed do all have a failsafe combination (that actually works), is it disabled when purchased? I've never heard of that.


I have no idea what they're talking about. Most commercial units come "set to 50" where you only have to turn the dial left to 50 once, then right to open. This is how all of my safes are set up.

I would imagine that the safe was set to a random set of numbers at the factory, and the combination never changed. The local Cabela's uses a small C clamp on the boltwork to keep it from closing on their floor displays. I would imagine Dick's did something similar.

I think this would create some liability for them, since if they did something to prevent it from happening, they knew there was a risk. Since their precautions failed, I'm sure they'll be writing a check.

Double Naught Spy
August 16, 2008, 06:45 AM
The parents are responsible for thier kids actions. They should have kept thier kids right with them instead of letting them run around the store.

This is a great sentiment and all, echoed by others here as well, only the kids were not at the store with their parents. No parent keeps their kids by their side 24/7, not kids the ages of the ones locked in the safe, not teenagers. Part of growing up is learning to do things without your parents.

Odd Job
August 16, 2008, 07:40 AM
There was a classic movie along these lines, black and white, I can't remember the title though.
Edit: found it. It was called Time Lock and involved a child accidentally locked in a bank vault. Filmed in 1957.

peyton
August 16, 2008, 07:58 AM
Well did they get the kids out or not??

Odd Job
August 16, 2008, 08:09 AM
Yes, check post #9

Kind of Blued
August 16, 2008, 08:38 AM
I can't believe nobody made note of this. The last line of the article linked in this thread was classic.

Firefighters rescue boys inside locked safe at S.L. store
Published: Thursday, Aug. 14, 2008 10:11 p.m. MDT
4 comments E-MAIL | PRINT | FONT + -
Firefighters had to crack a safe at a downtown sporting goods store after three boys became stuck inside Thursday.

A group of boys were at Dick's Sporting Goods in The Gateway when three boys climbed inside a gun safe and another boy closed the door behind them, said Salt Lake Fire spokesman Scott Freitag.

The boys — ages 9, 12 and 13 — were trapped inside the 4-foot by 4-foot safe for nearly 40 minutes while store employees and firefighters tried to get them out.

Store employees tried a combination to unlock the safe, but it would not open, Freitag said. Firefighters were called about 8 p.m.

Rescuers initially worried there wasn't enough air for the boys to breath in the safe.

"We could talk with the boys," Freitag said. "They told us they were breathing OK."

That gave firefighters time to drill holes in the safe and pump in compressed air from their tanks. They then used pneumatic chisels to cut off the back of the safe to free the boys.

"They were scared and they were hot," Freitag said. "But we got them out. They were safe."

zenner22
August 16, 2008, 10:01 AM
I've occasionally worried about getting robbed, being forced to open my safe and then getting locked in by a nefarious criminal. What a rotten way to go.

I never thought of that before. Thanks for bringing me into your nightmare! Now I'll have that in the back of my head too!

Mike J
August 16, 2008, 12:38 PM
The Dick's store here keeps the safes closed & locked but the combiinations are written on pieces of masking tape on the top of them.
Maybe a customer opened the safe to look at it & didn't close it. They will probably change how they do this now I guess.

Hanzerik
August 16, 2008, 12:52 PM
Are these types of safes/RSC not owner combo settable? I know most safes I have dealt with have a shipping combo that is the same across the board when these safes are not being used to store anything. It's up to the owner/user to set a combo.

Claude Clay
August 16, 2008, 01:20 PM
perhaps the kids were practicing being locked up in advance of the judges sentencing

Bailey Guns
August 16, 2008, 01:27 PM
I can picture myself doing this when I was 9 years old...in 1969. The story would go:

1) 9 year old is locked in safe w/friends in sporting goods store.
2) Firefighters rescue 9 year old and friends.
3) Parents of 9 year old apologize profusely to store manager, employees, firefighters and police for trouble 9 year old caused.
4) Parents take 9 year old home and the ass-kickings commence.
5) 9 year old learns from his mistake...and subsequent ass-kicking.

Jamie C.
August 16, 2008, 01:36 PM
Y'know, given the behavior I see out of most kids and their parents while in stores and shops, I'm just not seeing a problem here. As a matter of fact, I'm thinking that maybe all stores should have "Child Lockers" for the safe storage of children, while their parents shop. :evil:



J.C.

offroaddiver
August 17, 2008, 12:11 AM
I will have to say that if this happened when i was a kid I would have had to do chores to "pay off" the cost of the safe. After of course being punished for being overall dumb.
It would be rather interesting to find out that the impossible happens and the parents are actually members of this site. :D LOL

cornman
August 17, 2008, 12:17 AM
Anyone who says parents are always responsible does not have kids. BTW All are responsible for all...

akodo
August 17, 2008, 12:46 AM
the fire department was probably trying not to injure the kids inside. There were plenty of faster options available to them, but those options may have been dangerous to the occupants.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uI48y-h8kA&feature=related

fastest method yet

mgregg85
August 17, 2008, 03:35 AM
Hmm, seems like they could go and rent a mag drill pretty easily.

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