deadly force


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teamglock
August 16, 2008, 10:33 AM
I need some answers....

If you walking down the street with you dog and you have a cc
and you total legal and say a dog come running up to you and your dog and starts fighting .... can you use deadly force.


i live in south fl where most dog owners don't leash there dogs

even when there are sign's

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dogmush
August 16, 2008, 10:43 AM
What my lawyer friend told me whan I asked: "You grabbed your dog to get it away and the other dog attacked you, so you shot it"

Legaly in FL as best I can tell: Your dog is your property, and you can't shoot to protect property. Most towns in FL have some version of "No Shooting in Town" Laws.

Morally, (my own): Dogs often fight without killing each other, so I think one would have some moral imperitive to at least try to seperate the dogs without killing the agressor. They're probably not trying to kill your dog.

Practicly: Put the shoe on the other foot; if your dog got away from you and when you caught up with him, he was shot and there was a man standing over him with a drawn gun, what would you do? In many places shooting someones dog is a good way to get shot.

Obviuosly every situation is different, my response to an average dog-fight is not to shoot one of the dogs. I'd try to break it up non leathaly first.

csmkersh
August 16, 2008, 10:46 AM
It's going to depend on your State's laws. In mine, I can shoot a dog attaching livestock but not not another dog - legally, that is.

I've had a Rott charge me twice (same dog) and both times he got a face full of pepper spray with a .357 as follow-up if needed. It wasn't.

545days
August 16, 2008, 10:48 AM
This is a thread that probably won't end well... However I will take a stab at an answer.

In most places, dogs are legally considered property. They are not family members. Therefore ask yourself this: "If my bicycle was locked in a bike rack, and a large dog attacked it; can I legally shoot the dog?" It doesn't sound so clear cut anymore does it?

Other considerations are the relative size, age, health and value of the dogs. Shooting a seven pound poodle that dares to attack your 150 pound rottie probably won't look good either. Then there are other factors: Are you in the country or the city? Does the other dog have a collar? Is the other dog's owner standing nearby? Are you in the middle of a crowd, endangering others? Have you had run-ins with the dogs owner in the past? How have your local police treated similar incidents in the past? Is the local DA pro or anti gun? Do you really want to go to court and spend a lot of money to prove that you were right?

Since the standard for use of a gun in most places is "fear for your life" a legal gun permit holder who wishes to stay out of jail and civil court is should probably try and physically break up the dog fight first.

I am not a lawyer. Your mileage may vary. Feel free to tell me that you once shot a dog and had no trouble.

teamglock
August 16, 2008, 10:57 AM
ok you all have been helpfull now

what is the best hand-held pepper spray you can buy any hints?

Jeff F
August 16, 2008, 11:30 AM
I've used the foxx labs pepper spray on one occasion with very good results, but it was not on a dog. the Foxx brand is good but their probably is some better stuff out there.

teamglock
August 16, 2008, 11:49 AM
any other?

can i buy mace

Lewis130
August 16, 2008, 11:53 AM
You could just give the offending dog a good kick and it'll probably scarper or attck you. If the later, fire at will. When I was young, a German Sheppard attacked my dog. My Dad just waved a stick at it and it fled, so threat of human force might well be sufficient.

FCFC
August 16, 2008, 11:53 AM
In most places, dogs are legally considered property. They are not family members. Therefore ask yourself this: "If my bicycle was locked in a bike rack, and a large dog attacked it; can I legally shoot the dog?" It doesn't sound so clear cut anymore does it?

Other considerations are the relative size, age, health and value of the dogs. Shooting a seven pound poodle that dares to attack your 150 pound rottie probably won't look good either. Then there are other factors: Are you in the country or the city? Does the other dog have a collar? Is the other dog's owner standing nearby? Are you in the middle of a crowd, endangering others? Have you had run-ins with the dogs owner in the past? How have your local police treated similar incidents in the past? Is the local DA pro or anti gun? Do you really want to go to court and spend a lot of money to prove that you were right?

Since the standard for use of a gun in most places is "fear for your life" a legal gun permit holder who wishes to stay out of jail and civil court is should probably try and physically break up the dog fight first.

Excellent analysis, 545days.

Another factor at play in shooting a dog is that they are hard to shoot. This may cause one to fire more than once.

More gunshots = more complexity, more trouble.

Guns are not good tools for dog on dog attacks.

csmkersh
August 16, 2008, 12:05 PM
Guns are not good tools for dog on dog attacks.

True, but other than pepper spray, which may or may not be legal is some states, it may be the only option for a person out for a walk with their dog.

If you are at home and have quick access to a hose and water, that often is a very effective and non-lethal way to end the dog fight. But this is not the scenario the OP presented.

FCFC
August 16, 2008, 12:16 PM
Guns are not good tools for dog on dog attacks.
True, but other than pepper spray, which may or may not be legal is some states, it may be the only option for a person out for a walk with their dog.

"...may be the only option"??????

Puh-leeeze....that's rather limited thinking...

There've got to be some other options...

Of course, having a gun first bias obstructs the seeking out of those other options.... :banghead:

Guns are not good tools for dog on dog attacks. Find something else for that problem. Else, it will be an expensive dog walk.

mgkdrgn
August 16, 2008, 12:32 PM
One of the reasons I got my CCW here was because of several rather nasty neighborhood dogs. They have already gotten loose and killed several other neighborhood pets.

I carry a 9 round 22 revolver loaded with CCI Stingers (with a "NastyNose treatment). If I can't "yell them off", I'll give 1 shot straight into the ground to see if the noise gets their attention. If not ....

Of course, I may not have enough time for all the options above as my dog (golden retriever) is only on a 6 foot leash. I believe that is close enough to consider the attacking dog a threat to me as well.

Up until the CCW I carried a stun gun.

Low-Sci
August 16, 2008, 12:56 PM
Legal or not, shooting an unleashed dog seems like a serious overreaction in most scenarios that I can dream up. Of course there are exceptions, but for the most part it seems like a better idea to yell at it and give it a kick rather than mow it down. Whether it's legal for you to do it or not, it'll cause you a lot more headache than it's worth.

If it attacks you, that's another story. And it's still going to be a hassle.

Old Grump
August 16, 2008, 12:56 PM
If it doesn't have a collar and its attacking or threatening to attack consider it a feral animal and shoot. My nephew got bit by the neighbors dog and the resultant infection cost me 585 dollars. That dog had bitten several other people and it bit a couple more after biting my nephew. They had to put it down because their insurance company was going to cancel their home owners policy. Instead of just digging into their pockets like I did in order to stay on good terms with the neighbors they reported the bite. It was a small beagle. A Great Dane, German Shepherd, or any other sizable animal can cause a lot of damage with just a couple of bites and I don't think we should have to wait till we have chunks of meat ripped from us before we are allowed to defend ourselves. A mastiff in Madison Wisconsin unleashed and away from its owner attacked and killed a dog in a park yesterday and it wasn't supposed to be off leash or unmuzzled because of previous incidents with that dog. You have no idea what is going to happen when a dog comes at you in a threatening manner. I am too old to get chewed on and I'll pay the fine before I'll let a dog do that to me. None of my dogs do that. The 2 that did 25 years ago belonged to my wife, they were put down the same afternoon.

csmkersh
August 16, 2008, 01:04 PM
Guns are not good tools for dog on dog attacks.

True, but other than pepper spray, which may or may not be legal is some states, it may be the only option for a person out for a walk with their dog.


"...may be the only option"??????

Puh-leeeze....that's rather limited thinking...

There've got to be some other options...

Then present some rather than being your normal anti-gun, anti-self defense and anti-defense of property self.

ilbob
August 16, 2008, 02:08 PM
You can only typically use deadly force in certain situations that are defined by state law. Typically it is only allowed in defense of life. A few states allow you to defend at least some property with deadly force. A dog is property.

Now if the dog attacked you, that is a different story. Most states if you shot a dog that had attacked you, you would probably be OK if the attack was such that you might have been seriously injured or killed. Although some areas may give you some grief about it, and you might get charged with something, and end up having to pay a lawyer to deal with it. This situation is highly dependent on facts you have not provided.

ilbob
August 16, 2008, 02:13 PM
I carry a 9 round 22 revolver loaded with CCI Stingers (with a "NastyNose treatment). If I can't "yell them off", I'll give 1 shot straight into the ground to see if the noise gets their attention. If not ....
warning shots are a real bad idea. Dogs are very fast and you may only get one shot. A 22 is not an appropriate caliber for shooting a dog large enough to do any damage to you.

You should always report stray dogs to the local animal control people. If they seem aggressive call 911. If nothing else, it is a record of a nuisance animal.

Griz44
August 16, 2008, 02:29 PM
This will probably hack a few off here, but it is the way I see things. The years long rash of kids and pets being killed by specific breeds would mean that some breeds, Pits, Rotties, etc... should be handled differently than a po'd poodle. A Lab or Collie probably just needs a good loud yell or a kick and off they go. A Pit on the other hand will not yield no matter what you do to it. This I know from first hand experience and have the scars to prove it. The retriever gets off the hook for bad behavior, the Pit gets a bullet-no hesitation. Dogs also become braver with numbers. A lone dog will almost always back off, a pack rarely does. The right answer to the question probably does not exist. I will not wind up back in the ER getting dog bites sewn up, I'll shoot first to protect me and my dog. But here in Texas, deadly force is OK to protect your property.

Happiness Is A Warm Gun
August 16, 2008, 02:30 PM
Warning Shots are ALMOST ALWAYS a horrible idea.
Warning Shots into the ground (asphalt, concrete, gravel) are an ESPECIALLY BAD idea.

When I was in Iraq a warning shot skipped off the ground and struck a non-combatant; a 9 year old girl. Imagine the fun of doing patrols in that neighbor after that.

Don't fire warning shots.

There are only two possibilities:

If a situation DOES requires deadly force then it requires deadly force; aim center mass and shoot to stop threat. To not use deadly force in a situation that require it, endangers yourself and other innocent persons.

If a situation DOESN'T require deadly force then it doesn't require deadly force. To use deadly force only endangers other people.

teamglock
August 16, 2008, 02:35 PM
has anyone ever shot a dog ......


well i had to one time .. and trust me they don't go down fast.... dogs are
so strong.... i had a wild pit come on my land when i live in a very ruel area... and he started growing and semi lunging towards me

so i used water didn't work i used sticks didn't work
used a loud siren didn't work ........ i had to shoot him with a .45 acp and i shot him in his back leg i thought i was watching a movie the bullet really did fall out of him the shell was laying next to the dog and i was close and very dead on....... it took 7 Rd's to finally take him down.......


sorry about typo's

mgkdrgn
August 16, 2008, 02:38 PM
"Warning Shots are ALMOST ALWAYS a horrible idea."

Agreed ... and I likely won't have time for one anyway. My dog is always on a 6 foot lead when we are out, with me on the other end.

That being the case, I consider any other dog actively my dog to be attacking me, and will be dealt with accordingly without hesitation.

ByAnyMeans
August 16, 2008, 04:47 PM
GRIZ44:

I have seen pits waved off by the hand before, trust me it was my hand. I have also gotten stitches in the ER due to dogbites but it was once a Retriever and the second time it was a Vizla. You may feel it's okay to prejudge a dog and fire "one" because of the breed but understand they have an owner and they may "return fire to protect their property" just as you have the right to do. All i'm saying is if it is one of my or my family American Pitbull Terriers you shoot I will try my best to unload a magazines worth in your direction to "stop the threat" with "no hesitation.'

FCFC
August 16, 2008, 05:05 PM
All i'm saying is if it is one of my or my family American Pitbull Terriers you shoot I will try my best to unload a magazines worth in your direction to "stop the threat" with "no hesitation.'
See, that's the thing....there are so many reasons why a gun is not a good tool for dogfights (or most dog incidents).

I'm sure there are a few exceptions, but the rule should be:

Don't bring a gun to a dogfight.


I hope to God I never have to read a news account about two dogwalkers who end up shooting each other over a dogfight. That would be a big waste...

Hypnogator
August 16, 2008, 05:07 PM
All i'm saying is if it is one of my or my family American Pitbull Terriers you shoot I will try my best to unload a magazines worth in your direction to "stop the threat" with "no hesitation.'

In which case, the Judge will say "Guilty of murder" and you'll spend a l-o-n-g time in real close association with a big guy named "Bubba" who thinks you look cute! :what::eek::uhoh:

It has been pointed out several times in this thread, dogs are property. Much as we love them as pets, they aren't human. You may shoot a dog that is attacking you or your dog. You may not shoot a human who is attacking your dog! Bear in mind, though, that if you do choose to shoot, you may be subject to sanctions for discharging a firearm, reckless endangerment, disturbing the peace, etc.

ByAnyMeans
August 16, 2008, 05:11 PM
Hypnogator sorry won't happen. If a person fires a gun even at my dog and i return fire i'm fine. If the dog is right next to me there is no way to tell that he was'nt attempting to shoot me and if my dog is in my yard than I'm stopping the person who I resoanably(sp?) think is taking them out in order to commit a home invasion. If he can shoot my dog because he is protecting his property (his dog) then I can shoot him to protect my property(my dog and me). Good for the goose is good for the gander.

jonmerritt
August 16, 2008, 05:21 PM
In Iowa, If you or a family member, or pet, live stock, whatever, is attacked, and you are not trespassing, shoot it. If a dog is not tagged, shoot it (the law). If it is tagged and just walking by, let it walk by. If I shoot an attacking dog, and the owner is stupid enough to pull a gun on me for defending myself, then the owner is just as bad as the attacking dog, shoot it. But that is Iowa

ByAnyMeans
August 16, 2008, 05:25 PM
If my dog was attacking then of course but his statement was not that. His statement was "a pitbull gets one no hesitation" which is entirely different. I don't care what type of dog I have it will be a good dog or it will be culled. If you shoot at me with my weimaraner by my side or you shoot him in his yard WITHOUT provocation simply because of your prejudice towards the breed whatever it is I will return fire. As far as I'm concerned you are a sick person in those circumstances and I have no idea of your further intentions.

FCFC
August 16, 2008, 05:33 PM
"I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail."

--A. Maslow--

elsullo
August 16, 2008, 05:54 PM
Attention: some dogs are immune to pepper spray! Also, five to ten percent of humans are also immune to pepper spray.

Personally, I do not leave the house without carrying a personal defense spray, but it is a dual-active-ingredient model containing both pepper and CS/CN gas nerve-irritant. Mace is one brand that makes this model, Sabre is another reputable brand with a dual-ingredient model. Check out DefenseStop.com for a selection with good prices.

When I used to walk my dog I carried a heavy cane to ward off menacing dogs. If they dared to get close, a jab in the ribs always sent them away. The best, and cheapest, cane is a heavy, solid Hickory "Stockman's Cane" from Lehman's, a farm supply internet store---about fifteen dollars delivered for the best fighting cane in the world!...........................elsullo

csmkersh
August 16, 2008, 06:23 PM
And once again, our resident contrarian provides nothing except contrariness:

I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail."

--A. Maslow--

And Elsullo is correct on capsaicin, the "hot" in pepper spray, is not always effective. The Rott I had trouble with got a mace/capsaicin combo sprat. It was also a foam so less likely to effect user if wind is from the wrong direction.

And FCFC still doesn't provide an possible solution. See following message. sigh.

FCFC
August 16, 2008, 06:36 PM
And once again, our resident contrarian provides nothing except contrariness:


I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail."

--A. Maslow


Hardly "contrariness." Just an acknowledgement of how perceptive Maslow was.

Check out Posts 23, 26, 27, and 28 above....

ByAnyMeans
August 16, 2008, 06:43 PM
CSMKERSH:

I have been looking for a combo spray in foam formula but unable to find, do you remember where you got yours from.

csmkersh
August 16, 2008, 06:50 PM
Place called O'Bars here in SA. He's closed now. This was put out by MACE, not one of the smaller companies.

http://www.mace.com/

ByAnyMeans
August 16, 2008, 07:04 PM
thanks, i'll check it out.

BruceRDucer
August 16, 2008, 08:06 PM
"I need some answers....

I need some answers....

If you walking down the street with you dog and you have a cc
and you total legal and say a dog come running up to you and your dog and starts fighting .... can you use deadly force.


(1) How does one get a concealed carry permit, with no basic knowledge of the law?

(2) Interrogative sentences end with a (?)

:what:

SFvet
August 16, 2008, 08:21 PM
A full force kick to the body of most K9's will stop them from fighting.

BruceRDucer
August 16, 2008, 08:40 PM
has anyone ever shot a dog ......


well i had to one time .. and trust me they don't go down fast.... dogs are
so strong.... i had a wild pit come on my land when i live in a very ruel area... and he started growing and semi lunging towards me

so i used water didn't work i used sticks didn't work
used a loud siren didn't work ........ i had to shoot him with a .45 acp and i shot him in his back leg i thought i was watching a movie the bullet really did fall out of him the shell was laying next to the dog and i was close and very dead on....... it took 7 Rd's to finally take him down.......


Outside of Elizabeth CO a few years back, a nice lady used to turn a pair of pits out to run the land. They killed an elderly lady, and attacked others on different occasions.

I think the owner did hard time.

If you had to defend yourself by shooting, my sympathies are with you.

/

BruceRDucer
August 16, 2008, 08:44 PM
'All i'm saying is if it is one of my or my family American Pitbull Terriers you shoot I will try my best to unload a magazines worth in your direction to "stop the threat" with "no hesitation.'

(1) Don't escalate the rhetoric with frothy hypotheticals

(2) Don't escalate the rhetoric with frothy hypotheticals

FCFC
August 16, 2008, 09:10 PM
This will probably hack a few off here, but it is the way I see things. The years long rash of kids and pets being killed by specific breeds would mean that some breeds, Pits, Rotties, etc... should be handled differently than a po'd poodle. A Lab or Collie probably just needs a good loud yell or a kick and off they go. A Pit on the other hand will not yield no matter what you do to it. This I know from first hand experience and have the scars to prove it. The retriever gets off the hook for bad behavior, the Pit gets a bullet-no hesitation.
I dunno. Maybe you're right.

But that decision rule is pretty inflexible. And in most cases, perhaps that inflexibility can be avoided.

I'm wondering if the shooter in the following pit bull story was avoidably inflexible? We may never know. But we do know that the shooter was irresponsible. That much we do know, no matter what the details were.
http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/2.gif



Owner of pit bull found bleeding from gunshot wound claims dog
By Rebecca Panoff
February 11, 2008

PORT ST. LUCIE — A local woman found a pit bull with a bullet wound outside her home Saturday and police are trying to find out who shot the animal, according to police officials.

The female dog named Costa was taken by Port St. Lucie Animal Control to an emergency veterinarian’s office and then taken to the Humane Society of St. Lucie County, according to Officer Vanessa Moore. She was picked up by her owner Monday afternoon, according to Humane Society Director Frank Andrews.

A woman found Costa when she was taking out her trash at her home in the 2600 block of Southwest Cameo Boulevard on Saturday evening, Moore said. The dog was bleeding profusely from its wound, but had a sweet disposition and followed the woman as she walked outside.

The animal had no tag, implanted chip or identifying tattoo, Moore said.

Her owner called the Humane Society looking for Costa and she was released to her after police said there was no reason to think she had anything to do with the shooting of the dog, according to Port St. Lucie Police Department spokesman Officer Robert Vega.

The owner told police the dog got out of the house Saturday, and she and her family had been looking for her since.

Port St. Lucie police are still investigating the incident and looking for the shooting suspect, Vega said.
http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2008/feb/11/psl-woman-finds-pit-bull-bleeding-gunshot-wound/

BruceRDucer
August 16, 2008, 09:42 PM
But we do know that the shooter was irresponsible.

...except for specific and factual evidence, identifying "irresponsibility" on the part of the shooter.

/

FCFC
August 16, 2008, 10:10 PM
But we do know that the shooter was irresponsible. That much we do know, no matter what the details were.

...except for specific and factual evidence, identifying "irresponsibility" on the part of the shooter.

What you ask for is in the article.

Is it not very clear?

ByAnyMeans
August 16, 2008, 10:32 PM
1) rhetoric with frothy hypotheticals get back rhetoric with frothy hypotheticals


2) rhetoric with frothy hypotheticals get back rhetoric with frothy hypotheticals

csmkersh
August 17, 2008, 01:15 AM
FCFC, other than your always finding fault with the gun owner, we know nothing of use in the matter. Yes, we know the pit bull had been shot but not the circumstances that led to the shooting. Care to provide that information? Maybe you could pull it out of your <deleted to keep things High Road> like your other posts.

BruceRDucer
August 17, 2008, 01:27 PM
What you ask for is in the article.

Is it not very clear?---FCFC


No. It is not clear at all. Absolutely no more information about the shooting is in your link.

Absolutely no information is provided to indicate the dog's shooter was IRRESPONSIBLE. You are writing nonsense.

:p

I'm sure there are a few exceptions, but the rule should be:

Don't bring a gun to a dogfight.--FCFC



Yeah, you'll find that rule on a cereal box maybe. Your argument is premised on the erroneous assumption that guns are basically ineffective. If that were true, people would not rely upon guns for self-defence or Concealed Carry.

Any more nonsensical propositions FCFC?

Photomask
August 17, 2008, 01:41 PM
Use of deadly force is never clear-cut or easy to decide. When you pull the trigger it should be the last resort. It will, most likely, cause you great expense, even if you were absolutely justified. Being that these laws vary greatly from state-to-state and throw in the layman's opinion of what it means and it is a steep slippery slope to be on.

Your best bet would be to have this discussion with the cops who will be first on scene and decide whether or not to arrest you, the DA who will decide to prosecute or not and a lawyer that will have to defend you. The big problem then becomes: Can it then be considered premeditated?

When it gets boiled down to the most basic of variables. You will still have to be the one to decide and you will be the one that is held responsible. The end question in the eyes of all that will judge you later becomes: Was it a reasonable action and the last possible resort?

cassandrasdaddy
August 17, 2008, 01:49 PM
if a dog is on another dog i use the field goal kick. has worked manytimes. stun gun is great but you gotta get too close. stinger rounds in a 12 guage have worked in the past.

gripper
August 17, 2008, 02:03 PM
The scumbags that actually fight their dogs have a thing called a "break stick"...think of it as a wedge on a shaft or stick with a T-handle.It us used to pry open one set of jaws from another dog.
When I used to run with my dogs ( back when they were still alive an dI was living where I coul dhave one) ;I used to keep a walking stick with a wedge shaped tip and a couple of palm swells at the top and midpoint dfor that purpose- I had PBT's and Dobies ( recsue league dogs-gotta love'em all) some dirtbags used to think it was cute to sic their dogs on me.That stick got three uses-wieght in my right hand ( my dog 's leash was in my left when we ran ) ;to separate dogs when necessary ....and to issue a beat down on the punk who would abuse /endanger his and my dog ( and me!)

FCFC
August 18, 2008, 12:05 PM
... we know nothing of use in the matter. Yes, we know the pit bull had been shot but not the circumstances that led to the shooting. Care to provide that information? Maybe you could pull it out of your <deleted to keep things High Road> like your other posts.

Hmm, so we can stipulate that the dog was shot. Once we do that, we know the shooter was irresponsible. There is enough information in the article to show that the shooter was irresponsible. It's clear as a bell.

Why is it so difficult to see the obvious? Might it be that good ole gun-first bias??????? http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/39.gif

Ole Abe Maslow....he really nailed it.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x81/bhillp/hammer.jpg

http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gifhttp://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gifhttp://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gifhttp://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gifhttp://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gifhttp://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gif

Happiness Is A Warm Gun
August 18, 2008, 12:11 PM
Hmm, so we can stipulate that the dog was shot. Once we do that, we know that the shooter was irresponsible. There is enough information in the article to show that. It's clear as a bell.

Why is it so difficult to see the obvious? Might it be that good ole gun-first bias???????

I hope you never become a DA.

The dog was shot. From that you determine in 100% of instances if a dog is shot then the shooter was irresponsible?

What if the dog was attacking a person when it was shot?
In most states if you reasonably fear for your life then you can use deadly force. Are you saying that only applies to humans?

So if I reasonbly fear for my life from a mugger with knife I can shoot but if a snarling pitbull has me backed against a wall and is snapping at me I need to just there and wait to get mauled?

***? We don't know anything about the situation other than the dog was shot. Lets replace dog with mugger.

Hmm, so we can stipulate that the mugger was shot. Once we do that, we know that the shooter was irresponsible. ... It's clear as a bell.

Does it still make sense to you? Based on your logic anytime anyone anywhere shoots anyone or anything for any reason they are irresponsible?

Zip7
August 18, 2008, 12:18 PM
I shoot dogs all the time around here. I have two female hunting dogs penned up out back, and so occasionally I get visitors. I generally shoot them with an old rusty crosman BB gun - one pump - BB to the butt works well for most.

If I ever see the same dog around again, they are real skittish, and when they see the crosman they know what's up. Most of them give up after one or two visits.

I've broken up many a dog fight over the years - mostly with the broom or the field goal kick method, but with a pit bull involved you need to head it off sooner than usual.

You may find this a little out of the ordinary, but most people who have coon dogs or squirrel dogs will not tolerate an aggressive dog at all. If they have a dog that shows aggression toward other dogs more than once or twice, they will cull it - commonly with a 22 bullet.

I haven't had a problem with it - mostly because I prefer female dogs, and if I raise a dog from a pup, I've never had a problem with aggression.

Griz44
August 18, 2008, 12:43 PM
So, by your statement BYANYMEANS, you place a value on an out of control dog, but not on the life of another human being?

That's sad.

I would shoot my own dog if it were uncontrollably attacking another dog and especially a human. It's behavior that is unacceptable in a dog. But then, just about every Pit owner I have ever met seems to have the same unbalanced sense of reality. You state that you have been bit by your own dogs badly enough to visit the ER? I hope you don't have kids, and if you do, I pray that I don't see your story on the news someday.

FCFC
August 18, 2008, 12:43 PM
***? We don't know anything about the situation other than the dog was shot.
Nope. We know more than that.

It's in the article.

Happiness Is A Warm Gun
August 18, 2008, 12:55 PM
Nope. We know more than that.

It's in the article.
Nope you assume more.
It's not in the article.

We know:
1) dog got away from house (had no tags)
2) dog was found shot at another unknown location at an unknown amount of time before it was found.
3) dog was behaving at the time it was found
4) police are looking for shooter.

Police always look for shooter after a shooting. That is no indication of irresponsibility.

The dog was behaving after it was shot. There is no information on how the dog was behaving when it was shot.

Some animals are very different dealing with strange women then they are with strange men. If a dog was beaten by a man and saw an old man on street with a cane its reaction would be a lot different than a lady who reminding it of its owner bringing food and water.

So unless you are reading into the story there is nothing to indicate if the shooting was irresponsible or justified. It is possible the shooting was not justified but it is also possible the shooter came across the dog attacking his/her daugher. We simply do not know.

Yet somehow FCFC (like always) knows that the shooting is bad.

Justin
August 18, 2008, 01:41 PM
This thread's all heat, no light.

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