Gangster Style Shooting?


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azhunter122
August 16, 2008, 03:04 PM
I always see how gangsters shoot sideways and what not and have always wanered if that would create a stovepipe, and also what way would the recoil go? Anybody ever tried this?

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Eric F
August 16, 2008, 03:06 PM
oh come on...........

recoil goes back and side ways bullet still drops down.

Treo
August 16, 2008, 03:09 PM
I saw some idiot try it W/ 6 shooter once. his arm went straigt up

Harley Quinn
August 16, 2008, 03:17 PM
I'll go and give it a good test for you today, give me something to do... I'll shoot 22's, 9mm, 357Sig, 40cal, 45acp, 400corbon and 10mm out of Glocks :D
I have a 22A S&W I have been shooting recently be a good test...Gangbanger style, yea... do I have to wear my pants low also LOL:p I have a pair of painter pants that are big enough to go over my normal wear I'll use some suspenders LOL

No pics will be with it, just commentary, I'll do it with one hand and two hand holds, Left and right handed should take about 3 hours to complete :D Very scientific:what:

Crunker1337
August 16, 2008, 03:21 PM
The reason they do it so that, when rapidly firing, the spray of the bullets is horizontal rather than vertical. If you can't aim, it puts more enemies, and innocents, in harm's way.

elvis christ
August 16, 2008, 03:34 PM
I heard that they use to hold the gun sideways because a lot of cheap ass pistols will pop you in the head with the shell casing if you hold it correctly. Now I think it's just a matter of attempting to look cool.

Have you ever seen one hold it sideways and turn their head in the opposite direction of fire? Great idea, jackass.

revjen45
August 16, 2008, 03:34 PM
And all this time I figured it it was because they thought it looked cool....

FieroCDSP
August 16, 2008, 03:42 PM
The reason they do it so that, when rapidly firing, the spray of the bullets is horizontal rather than vertical. If you can't aim, it puts more enemies, and innocents, in harm's way.

you know, this is the first possibly legitimate reason for this method. How many of them do you think actually have thought of this?

Aran
August 16, 2008, 03:44 PM
I actually just tried that at the range yesterday.

Oddly enough, my most dead-on in the center shots were like that.

JoseM
August 16, 2008, 03:45 PM
I heard it was first done in Lethal Weapon I when the bad guys were tired of getting popped in the face. The actors changed grip and then all is history. Since hearing this explanation though, I haven't seen the original Lethal Weapon movie again to see if the bad guys were doing this.

Don Lu
August 16, 2008, 03:58 PM
its not done for any tactical reason...its just a cool thing. The first time you pick up a gun you automatically emulate what you have seen. their are exceptions that are becoming norms like gangs are now full of military or ex military personel, many of which have actual combat experience. they are training young gangsters in the correct ways of combat. but "gangster style" shooting is done just because those doing it may not know any better..but please believe that is changing.

SCKimberFan
August 16, 2008, 04:05 PM
I actually just tried that at the range yesterday.

Oddly enough, my most dead-on in the center shots were like that.

If anyone is buying this, I've got some oceanfront property in Iowa for sale. :evil:

DoubleTapDrew
August 16, 2008, 04:11 PM
Maybe it's to get Tec-9s and Mac-10s with long mags in and out of the car window without hanging up on the door frame.

Don Lu
August 16, 2008, 04:23 PM
you actually can shoot acuratley that way if you use the sights..you can hold gun upside down ...hold it backwards over your should and use a mirror...as long as you use sights you can hit bullseyes all day

Eric F
August 16, 2008, 04:28 PM
you actually can shoot acuratley that way if you use the sights..you can hold gun upside down ...hold it backwards over your should and use a mirror...as long as you use sights you can hit bullseyes all day
__________________
This is only true if your sights can be adjusted to be on target this way.

Also this is about the least useful thread I have come across in a long time..........IBTL!

Crunker1337
August 16, 2008, 04:32 PM
you know, this is the first possibly legitimate reason for this method. How many of them do you think actually have thought of this?

I doubt many have. I'm sure that the VAST majority just emulate what they see other gangbangers do. And let's face it, if it actually means that they shoot more of their enemies, they're gonna keep doing it.
Now, of course, if gangsters actually took the time and effort to go to ranges and practice (I doubt that they'd be welcome at any, though), they'd probably shoot up and down, so to speak. But they don't, so, by default, they use the deadliest tactic available, and shoot sideways.

Scattergun Bob
August 16, 2008, 04:38 PM
The origin of this was in Israel, the browning hi-powers that were issued during the late 60's were carried hammer down on a empty chamber. the skill set was to draw out the pistol, cant the the pistol 45 degrees, use your left hand to charge the pistol, accelerate the pistol straight out in front of your eyes and engage. It is a very effective way to get a pistol in this condition into combat.

What we now see on the T.V. and videos is a "well" someones idea of this skill.

Good Luck & Be Safe

Vern Humphrey
August 16, 2008, 04:43 PM
I'm trying to spread a fad amongst the gang-bangers that the really cool way to shoot is to look into the little hole and press on the trigger.:p

elsullo
August 16, 2008, 05:06 PM
This is a true story from Portland Oregon. About ten years ago some young gangsters tried to do a driveby shooting at a house on the LEFT side of the street. The passenger held his right arm out his window and held the gun sideways to shoot left over the roof of his car.

He managed to shoot through the roof of the car and kill the driver, his cousin.

Instant Karma is gonna get you.....................elsullo :eek:

.cheese.
August 16, 2008, 05:07 PM
I tried it once out of curiosity to see if there was something the gangbangers had figured out that we hadn't....... nope..... it's extremely unpleasant and doesn't seem to accomplish anything. The angle is just wrong and I'm guessing it's bad for your wrist. One shot was enough for me..... forever.

This was relatively recently too at a range.

JohnBlaze
August 16, 2008, 05:12 PM
where are you getting that gangbangers shoot this way? TV?

I grew up in a rough place, and most REAL gangbangers I'd see shooting shoot like you or I would, with a 2 hand grip and aiming.

Keep believing what you learned on TV.

6_gunner
August 16, 2008, 05:17 PM
The reason they do it so that, when rapidly firing, the spray of the bullets is horizontal rather than vertical. If you can't aim, it puts more enemies, and innocents, in harm's way.

I've heard that, too. I read somewhere that the practice began way back with the full auto version of the Mauser Broomhandle. Since the gun was difficult to control, holding it sideways created a horizontal sweep. I believe that there was a reference to this practice in the video game "Metal Gear Solid: Snakeater."

My guess is that people decided that it looked cool and copied it without knowing that it actually had a purpose.

Don Lu
August 16, 2008, 05:17 PM
"This is only true if your sights can be adjusted to be on target this way."

this is not true...you can hold gun gangsta style and upside down and if you use sights you will hit with no adjustment to sights...I don't know the specifics with using miror over shoulder.

Scattergun Bob
August 16, 2008, 05:23 PM
You are absolutely CORRECT. It does not matter up, down, or sideways, sight picture and alignment are the same.

As a side note, shooting with the aid of a mirror, the sight adjustment is directly reversed. That is according to the GREAT ONE Ed McGivern.

VegasOPM
August 16, 2008, 05:33 PM
There are two legitimate reasons to cant the sidearm that I am aware of. PO's are often trained to cant the gun while holding a riot shield. I have also been trained to cant the gun at a 45 degree angle while weak hand shooting as it puts the bones and muscles of the arm in a more natural position as well as allowing a front sight focus with the dominant eye without turning the head.

Aran,
If indeed you made better hits this way, I would suggest that you are flinching or anticipating recoil and putting your rounds low. Rotating the gun can sometimes minimize this tendency- but it is not the way to fix the problem.

Eric F
August 16, 2008, 05:53 PM
if your bullet drops 5 inched at 25 yards(for example) and you adjust the sights for this to zero at 25 yards then you turn the gun side ways(tilt to the left) and shoot You should be now shooting to the left off target and the bullet should be shooting low as before. So how is this is not true...you can hold gun gangsta style and upside down and if you use sights you will hit with no adjustment to sights...I don't know the specifics with using miror over shoulder.
going to work? Bullet drop corections up and down do not stay the same sideways, you cant argue physics.

ColinthePilot
August 16, 2008, 06:10 PM
For real "combat" or even defensive pistol shooting, who is engaging with a handgun at 25yds? I think at more realistic ranges, like 7-10yds, maybe up to 15 (thats about the limit I would try to engage) bullet drop would be less and you could probably hit the target. Also, we're not talking competition target pistols; we're talking stuff that generally has fixed sights.

SCKimberFan
August 16, 2008, 06:14 PM
U be needin these:

http://www.worldexaminer.com/worldexaminer/2008/01/all-in-funhomeb.html

Eric F
August 16, 2008, 06:19 PM
who is engaging with a handgun at 25yds?
Not that I really care to run this off into thread drift but my 1911 is sighted in for 25 yards so therefore I would engage at 25 yards if I could. Closer is better...or well maybe not.......either way it all on how you train and practice. My gun shoots relatively flat out to 25 yards a little high at 10 yards and even at 5 yards. again its all on what your use too............back to our regularly scheduled topic...........

U be needin these:
I knew that would be turning up sooner or later

Drgong
August 16, 2008, 06:20 PM
Also, I always heard that with a jennings the gravity helps the weak magazine springs load the gun.

that answer is what I heard, but it is BS i think.

Most of the REAL gangbangers, and not the "posers" actually shoot properly.

Warren
August 16, 2008, 06:59 PM
If you want to shoot gangster style do it the right way and wear a pin striped suit and a fedora. Oh, and call the weapon a "heater".

That way you'll be old school cool retro.

SFvet
August 16, 2008, 07:24 PM
I dont honestly think that most of them thought about it. I think they just shoot like that due to the fact that they were never trained.

DrLaw
August 16, 2008, 07:53 PM
I read this all the way through, and I cannot believe that I did not see THE REAL ANSWER here. :banghead:

The REAL ANSWER as to why the gangbangers hold their pistols sideways is...


...THAT IS THE WAY THE COME OUT OF THE BOX. DUH!!!

:neener::neener::neener:

The Doc is out now. :cool:

Weezy
August 16, 2008, 08:33 PM
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/elizabeth1982/gangstasights.jpg

tblt
August 16, 2008, 08:40 PM
Most gangstas have never been to a range and could only hit you with a little luck

dalepres
August 16, 2008, 08:46 PM
Many of the gang movies I have seen have shown the shooter not only holding the gun at an angle side-to-side, they also have their shooting arm pointed up and the wrist broken with the gun pointing down - while maintaining that side-to-side cant.

It is just intended to look "tough". And for those that think real gang bangers don't shoot that way, I disagree. Much of what we see as gang behavior comes from emulating TV and trying to out do what they see on TV. Heck, I've even heard that Hill Street Blues inspired more NYPD speech, slang, style, and behavior than it copied. What's on TV counts.

Dale_K
August 16, 2008, 10:10 PM
I heard it came from the time of old flintlock pistols. Tilting to the side to make sure the powder didn't fall out of the pan. How the concept made it into the 'hood I don't know. Possibly via Sicily.

SFvet
August 16, 2008, 10:14 PM
Thats one of the most hallarious things I have ever seen Weezy :what:

scrat
August 16, 2008, 10:50 PM
so if you turn the gun sideways. do you turn you head sideways to aim.

Loomis
August 16, 2008, 11:22 PM
THere are some pretty silly comments here claiming accuracy with pistol turned sideways.

To offset the bullet drop due to gravity, all firearms have the barrel canted up slightly, so that you are always shooting "uphill".

If you turn your firearm sideways, your barrel is now tipped to the left(if you shoot right handed), and there is nothing to offset the bullet drop due to gravity. So you will now be hitting low and to the left of the point where your sights line up on.

There's no accuracy when the pistol is turned sideways.

Crunker1337
August 16, 2008, 11:41 PM
Since when were gangsters accurate in the first place?

I stand by what I said: when multiple shots are fired, it makes more sense for untrained gangbangers to fire sideways, as it puts more enemies in danger.

stew38
August 17, 2008, 12:48 AM
maybe they are cross eyed

Harley Quinn
August 17, 2008, 06:45 AM
I heard it came from the time of old flintlock pistols. Tilting to the side to make sure the powder didn't fall out of the pan. How the concept made it into the 'hood I don't know. Possibly via Sicily.

The Irish should be considered also... They have been known to tip a few.

:D

Don Lu
August 17, 2008, 09:30 AM
Bullet drop corections up and down do not stay the same sideways, you cant argue physics.

I cannot pretend to be a physics major..the only thing that I DO know is that, I have tried it at 7 & 10 yrds (did not try 25 yrd) and the results show that you will hit your target by lining up the sights in that position. Im not implying that "gangsters" use the sights or use this argument, Im just stating what I know to be true..I didnt want to get off the topic of the thread, but I speak from experience not from puttting numbers and angles mixed with rate of drop.

zoom6zoom
August 17, 2008, 07:57 PM
Many of the gang movies I have seen have shown the shooter not only holding the gun at an angle side-to-side, they also have their shooting arm pointed up and the wrist broken with the gun pointing down - while maintaining that side-to-side cant.

That's from learning to shoot out of a sun roof.

Golden Hound
August 17, 2008, 08:17 PM
Hell, we already have Cowboy Action Shooting, why don't they set up an official Gangster Action Shooting competition?

basicblur
August 18, 2008, 01:12 AM
I always heard the reason they hold it that way is...
that's the way they come from the factory (in the box). :D

Savage Shooter
August 18, 2008, 02:02 AM
:cuss: you weezy you beat me to it :D
The REAL ANSWER as to why the gangbangers hold their pistols sideways is...


...THAT IS THE WAY THE COME OUT OF THE BOX. DUH!!!

HAHAHA!! About time somebody got to it that should have been in the second post.

Cosmoline
August 18, 2008, 02:53 AM
IMHO has nothing to do with any actual gangsters, most of whom don't have a clue how to shoot and copy it from the movies. The technique was developed by film directors as a way of showing more of the actor's face while getting the firearm in the shot. Held properly, the chin and mouth are obscured, but if you flip the pistol sideways the whole face is visible, framed by the pistol. There was an article about this reprinted in Gun Digest some years back IIRC. I'll poke around for it.

We all know it screws up aiming, causes jams and accomplishes nothing for a real shooter.

Sharps-shooter
August 18, 2008, 10:54 AM
I think that the original reason for doing this was to make the bullet strike down and to the inside of where the gun is. I've seen pictures of duels, specifically the o'connel-d'esterre duel, where people were doing this (the powder will stay in the pan just fine with the piece in an upright position; it's made for that) and read about it. So it's maybe a point-shooting technique for getting a quick COM shot when you're facing your opponent at about ten paces (20-25 feet).

fwiw, d'esterre missed his point shot and o'connel took a nice leisurely aim and shot him.

Vern Humphrey
August 18, 2008, 11:00 AM
Just a by the way, but ten paces (the standard dueling distance) is 50 feet. Each duelist would take ten steps -- and since there were two of them that made ten paces.

To count paces, step off on the left foot and count every time the right foot strikes the ground.

Owen
August 18, 2008, 11:00 AM
Eric F said
Not that I really care to run this off into thread drift but my 1911 is sighted in for 25 yards so therefore I would engage at 25 yards if I could

I'm sure the goblins will consult your sight settings so as to become threatening at your preferre engagemnt range.

At 7 yards and under, it makes no difference at all.

Norinco982lover
August 18, 2008, 11:05 AM
I believe it was in my gun digest 2000 that they did a test to see if it was more or less accurate to shoot a handgun holding it sideways and when they looked at the targets at the end of the article it was about the same either way. Shoot in a way that is comfortable for you while keeping your accuracy at its maximum.

Eric F
August 18, 2008, 11:05 AM
I'm sure the goblins will consult your sight settings so as to become threatening at your preferre engagemnt range.


Like wise for 7 yards

gunNoob
August 18, 2008, 11:15 AM
I was at the range and there was a "gangster" with an AR15 pistol and he held it buy his hip with the laser sight on while he shot.

I actually took a video of it. It's on my photobucket but can't get to it at work

glockman19
August 18, 2008, 11:30 AM
The reason they hold guns that way in TV & Movies is because if they held the gun properly the camera couldn't see their face.

grimjaw
August 18, 2008, 11:32 AM
I thought "gangster" style shooting was the same as "murder."

jm

jackstinson
August 18, 2008, 12:19 PM
I think it was a combination of many valid things originally, then became a "style" that is recognizable in pop culture.
The first place I saw this technique was in the movie "The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly". The "Ugly" holds his gun sideways to shoot over the top of a door while offing some farmer.
As for the concept of empties whacking one in the head. This is true. A lot of small guns have an extractor dead on top of the gun, empties sail up and come right down on MY forehead. I've tested the gangsta hold on several of these type hand guns and it does force the empties out and away from me.
The sideways spray theory is valid also. Probably originating from small full-autos like the Ingram and such.

thegoodfight
August 18, 2008, 01:24 PM
personal preference, but I find it easier to get the bullet to curve when I'm shooting gangster style. Now if I could just get some back spin on the bullet...

Wopasaurus
August 18, 2008, 01:24 PM
IBTL!

The story I heard was that when older movies with guns were being filmed. If they held the pistol correctly it would eject blanks and always hit them in the head or face... So they held it sideways to not get pummeled by hot shells.

And then ghetto people thought it looked cool, and here we are....

Cosmoline
August 18, 2008, 01:28 PM
Look at this vintage poster from one of the gangsters' all-time favorite movies:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/Gussick/sf1.jpg

IIRC, Montana does shoot the dirty cop in the gut from a sideways-held pistol.

thegoodfight
August 18, 2008, 01:29 PM
bingo^

RP88
August 18, 2008, 01:56 PM
it probably started out for the hollywood reason, the 'keep spray of bullets going lateral' reason, possibly an instinctual habit of aiming that starting with unskilled street thug shooters, etc.

but now it is almost certainly part of an image.

Joe Demko
August 18, 2008, 02:03 PM
IIRC, Montana does shoot the dirty cop in the gut from a sideways-held pistol.

His arm is "casually" resting on the arm of his chair when he_without warning_shoots the cop. The gun is sideways as a factor of that rather than him choosing to "aim" it that way.

I'm curious where so many of you live and what you do for a living that allows you to know how "gangsters" handle guns as a group. The only people I have ever seen shoot a gun that way are dufuses (dufi?) at the shooting range. They were all different colors and ages and most of them were clearly just goofing around.
I, too, am of the opinion that you think "gangsters" shoot that way because TV and movies have convinced you of it.

hatchetbearer
August 18, 2008, 02:17 PM
I was told in the police academy That they had first seen it in soldier of fortune magazine, I believe they mentioned 1911's and BHP's that shooting like this, caused the muzzle to flip vertically, and since most people present a greater target vertically than they do horizontally, increased their chances to hit said target.

I could also see an advantage in exposing less of yourself shooting over the top of a car.

Now "gang-bangers" do get it from hollywood, as an emulation of their "idols". let us all pray they dont start watching Jerry Miculek.

the idea of doing this with a jennings to enhance feeding was valid, until the slide sheared off the rails and hit me in the chest. brass from my cz-52 shooting surplus ammo caught upwards of 10 seconds of airtime, going completely vertical, in one instance hitting the gun on its decent.

rondog
August 18, 2008, 02:21 PM
Works for rifles too.....

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/i6fl39.jpg

Is this the "new cool" hold of the future?

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/new_gangsta_trend_0902orgB.jpg

Cosmoline
August 18, 2008, 02:50 PM
I'm curious where so many of you live and what you do for a living that allows you to know how "gangsters" handle guns as a group. The only people I have ever seen shoot a gun that way are dufuses (dufi?) at the shooting range.

The dufi and the gangstas are the same people.

Afy
August 18, 2008, 02:59 PM
And here... I thought the gang bangers had learnt to point and shoot...

janobles14
August 18, 2008, 03:08 PM
well vegasOPM has it right!

the reason they hold their weapons that way is simple. this actually started in los angelas. when the riot teams would break down the doors or gang/crack houses and raid them the lead officer would cant his weapon sideways around his entry shield. the gang members saw this and assumed that was the way the "elite" were supposed to shoot.

true story!

gregormeister
August 18, 2008, 03:47 PM
If they were all in prison and movies wouldn't glorify them we'd never see it again......its all urban hype and showing off what they learned from these "gangsta" movies...I bet Capone and Machine Gun Kelly are rolling in their graves....

BigO01
August 18, 2008, 04:19 PM
I heard it was first done in Lethal Weapon I when the bad guys were tired of getting popped in the face. The actors changed grip and then all is history. Since hearing this explanation though, I haven't seen the original Lethal Weapon movie again to see if the bad guys were doing this.

I first saw it used alot in the TV Series "The Equalizer' which came out in 1985 , 4 years before "Lethal Weapon"

Heartless_Conservative
August 18, 2008, 08:41 PM
Would tilting the gun at an angle actually make the muzzle flip go horizontal instead of vertical?

Beagle-zebub
August 18, 2008, 08:44 PM
the reason they hold their weapons that way is simple. this actually started in los angelas. when the riot teams would break down the doors or gang/crack houses and raid them the lead officer would cant his weapon sideways around his entry shield. the gang members saw this and assumed that was the way the "elite" were supposed to shoot.

true story!

I'm not sure I believe that, but it's an interesting theory.

Beagle-zebub
August 18, 2008, 08:54 PM
I grew up in a rough place, and most REAL gangbangers I'd see shooting shoot like you or I would, with a 2 hand grip and aiming.

It might be that, as with accents, people probably learn their shooting habits from those around them, with little national diffusion and uniformity.

Indifferent
August 18, 2008, 09:46 PM
what about the gangbangers that sort of look like they throw the bullet out of the gun, shaking the gun at you every time they fire.

Anyone see this on shooting videos?

P90shooter
August 18, 2008, 10:14 PM
45 degree angle while weak hand shooting as it puts the bones and muscles of the arm in a more natural position

VegasOPM,

I'm not sure what "Natural" means to you but having your hand in the standard shooting position is the strongest way to hold anything. Ask any martial arts expert what is stronger, holding a fist like a standard boxers punch (facing left/right) OR holding your wrist in a north/south position.

If you have ever taken any sort of anatomy class you will see that holding your arm north/south actually lines the bone up straight, as opposed to twisted and makes the arm extremly strong and less prone to breakage.

tpaw
August 18, 2008, 10:30 PM
Gangster Style Shooting?

I always see how gangsters shoot sideways and what not and have always wanered if that would create a stovepipe, and also what way would the recoil go? Anybody ever tried this?

TV and movie nonsense. I equate it to wearing a baseball style cap cocked sideways. Ridiculous. JMO.....

exar
August 18, 2008, 10:54 PM
Probably stated, but might as well since everyone is just repeating each other.

1. Movies. Reason's are obvious.

2. A canted pistol fits better through a slightly cracked, tinted window (sun roof) for drive-by's. Also, canted fits better and is more natural when blindly firing from behind cover.

Harley Quinn
August 18, 2008, 11:32 PM
I wonder how they are doing it south of the Border down Mexico way???

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080818/wl_afp/mexicocrimedrugs

Talking some bad Hombres with guns.:eek:

never_retreat
August 18, 2008, 11:39 PM
They hold it that way because thats the way they picked it up out of the box.

rondog
August 19, 2008, 01:18 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lnb0V9AP8w

Vern Humphrey
August 19, 2008, 08:58 AM
Would tilting the gun at an angle actually make the muzzle flip go horizontal instead of vertical?
Yes. The gun recoils around its anchor point, which is the hand holding it.

Joe Link
August 24, 2008, 07:09 PM
Whatever the reason, I'm sure happy they do it.

SoCalShooter
August 24, 2008, 07:12 PM
I've done it just screwing around in the desert but its not safe, cause your not controlling your fire. As for the recoil its going to grab shells and kick'em out the same way they are just going to end of somewhere else than they would if held the weapon properly, and as for stove pipes its probably cause someone limp wristed it.

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