1860 ARMY & Conical Bullets?


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Bayou Runner
August 16, 2008, 08:25 PM
Seems I've read here that Walkers have used a conical called a Picket. Don't recall reading any old or new history on conicals and the 1860. What's out there?

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arcticap
August 16, 2008, 08:31 PM
After the round ball is rammed and it's "swaged in" into the chamber with its diameter shaved off, doesn't it become a conical? :D

Bayou Runner
August 16, 2008, 09:29 PM
I was born at nite...but not last nite!

possum_128
August 16, 2008, 10:06 PM
What's a boolit?????:what:

Voodoochile
August 16, 2008, 10:45 PM
Both Colt & Remington had their version of a conical bullet that was used with their paper wrapped preloaded cartridges for both the .36 & .44 calibers.

The Lee bullet that they offer a mold for in . 36 & .44 caliber is a simple round nose configuration similar to but not exact to the designs of the time which most were more pointed.

They do make the C&B revolver a bit more effective but slightly harder to load.

Smokin_Gun
August 16, 2008, 11:43 PM
Great description Voodoochile was gonna mention Lee molds and Boolits ... just to add these are heeled boolits reduced at the base to enable flat, straight, proper seating when rammed home.

SG

4v50 Gary
August 16, 2008, 11:58 PM
You asked what a picket bullet was or looked like? Scroll down after you click the link right
Here (http://www.iglou.com/btreasure/mbullets.htm). Looks a bit like a 18-19th century sugar cone.

Sunray
August 17, 2008, 01:20 AM
What's 'nite'? That the same as 'night'?
"...doesn't it become a conical?..." Nope.

sharps59
August 17, 2008, 11:51 AM
boolit is some ones dream of a bullet. or some one that can't spell bullet

Smokin_Gun
August 17, 2008, 01:35 PM
Boolit, is how the word Bullet is usually phonetically pronounced if you listen closely and are not from the upper Eastern Coast.
Boolit is a Cowboy, Hillbilly, Western, Southern, Great Plains, Midwestern, not so Yankee speakin', slang term for a Bullet.:what:

SG

scrat
August 17, 2008, 02:15 PM
slugs is better than boooolit

Mike 56
August 17, 2008, 02:26 PM
This Yankee likes boolit better than bullet or slug.

Mike

scrat
August 17, 2008, 02:27 PM
let me see if i can say this correctly.



Here lyes less more. 2 slugs from a 44 less no more

4v50 Gary
August 17, 2008, 06:28 PM
I thought it was:

Here lyes Les more
2 slugs from a 44
no Less no more

Bayou Runner
August 17, 2008, 07:44 PM
SG, Voodoo, & 4v50, if that LEE 452 BP boolit is heeled like it looks, it shouldn't be too triflin hard to load in my 1860 pie eater. I plan on contacting them tomorrow and see if I can get some specs. Then to Midway for the mould. Got some ideas I want to work with on it. Anybody read Backwoodsman? Then you'll know what I'm thinking on. Thanks also for the explanation on the proper way to say bullet. Ole' Less didn't need no more than 2 boolits from a 44. Don't imagine there'd be many out there that would!

RecoilRob
August 17, 2008, 09:30 PM
The tombstone and me...

Marlin 45 carbine
August 17, 2008, 09:40 PM
Bayou Runner you may have to use a loading stand to load them. I have a '58 Rem they load in easily but some of the '51 fellers say the .44 won't fit the slugs under the ram. of course this is the .44 version of the original which was a .36. don't remember anyone saying about the '60 though. I'd say that you will like them. a max load in my '58 blew thru a jack pine that stopped a 125gr SJHP .357.

pohill
August 17, 2008, 10:16 PM
That's why the South lost the war - by the time you got out the sentence, "y'all betta duck, there's a booooooooooooooolit a comin' yer way," it was too late.

"There ya go agin, neva can make you happy..." Stumpy in RIO BRAVO.
Oh yeah, Walter Brennan was from MA.

Mike 56
August 17, 2008, 11:08 PM
I don't know about a 60 Colt but you can load them in in a 51 Colt with the loading arm. Put the Lee Boolit in on a angle and push it down with your thumb an till you can get it under the loading ram. It is a pain but you can do it. Before i bought my cylinder loading stand i found it was easier to bench load the cylinder with short starter than to use the loading arm when loading boolits.

Mike

4v50 Gary
August 17, 2008, 11:18 PM
Thank you Recoil Rob for that photographic evidence correcting us on our faulty memory. :D

Voodoochile
August 17, 2008, 11:22 PM
Since I wore my old Lee mold out to where it needed a new handle set & that I've reamed out the chambers to my almost a year old Pietta '58 with it's 5.5" barrel to a nice .4510, I ordered a new .456 220gr. conical Lee bullet mold for it.

a max load in my '58 blew thru a jack pine that stopped a 125gr SJHP .357.

Hey Marlin:
What was your max load for your '58?
I've put 40gr. FFFG Goex & a .457 143gr. Ball through both of mine & the most Ive tried with my old 200gr. .451 Lee Bullets were 30gr. FFFG Goex, lookes as though you can make it 35gr., am I right?

Smokin_Gun
August 18, 2008, 12:44 AM
That's why the South lost the war - by the time you got out the sentence, "y'all betta duck, there's a booooooooooooooolit a comin' yer way," it was too late.


LoL! Pohill:evil: Well if that's the case I hummbley ask ya Sir ... what in the hell is a Cat Ridge... a Yankie Boy once asked me, we was fightin' Indians out West in the mid 1870's, anyway this hea boy asked for a Cat Ridge I said a whaaat? He said Catridge you know catridges for the COLT... I said ohhh you mean Boolits don't cha...just then we were over run and all killed.

SG

Pops
August 18, 2008, 04:11 PM
BOOLIT = cast lead projectile
BULLET = jacketed projectile ( aka.."jacketed", "j-word", "condom" )

Pops

Smokin_Gun
August 18, 2008, 08:16 PM
Pops that means as in not shootin' blanks either way??? LoL!

SG

mykeal
August 18, 2008, 08:31 PM
After the round ball is rammed and it's "swaged in" into the chamber with its diameter shaved off, doesn't it become a conical?

Articap - No. However, exactly what it's called is a bit of a mystery. It is almost a prolate spheroid, but the flat part defies my solid geometry vocabulary. Perhaps it's a truncated prolate spheroid...that's the closest I can come without references. How about axially truncated prolate spheroid, or just axially truncated sphere? Nope, it's no longer a sphere - wait, I got it: axially truncated spheroid. Yep, that's it.

I gotta get a job.

Jim K
August 18, 2008, 09:07 PM
In the general era of the Civil War, pistols were not loaded with loose powder and ball, but with cartridges. And almost all cartridges were loaded with conical bullets often called "picket balls."

I have been able to find little on the origin of that word. For sure, it has nothing to do with the CS general.

It may come from a French word meaning sharp or pointed, or from the sharp "picket" pin used to tether horses.

Jim

mec
August 18, 2008, 09:33 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=83283&stc=1&d=1219109038

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=52051&stc=1&d=1169832723
dixie copy of bullets from boxed set moulds

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=52052&stc=1&d=1169832012
dixie bullets shot one handed from 30yards.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=32242&d=1133753221
buffalo revolver bullets

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=27485&d=1123559332

Bayou Runner
August 20, 2008, 08:36 PM
Been pretty busy the past few days and couldn't get back to this like I wanted to so I guess it's better late than never. Anywho, this thread sure wets the whistle and it really makes you want to go bust some caps. Lookin over Mec's results it's easy to see why the Colt Walker and Dragoons had the top spot till 35 when the 357 showed up. Those numbers are impressive to say the least. The Dragoon, pushin close to 500lbs. of energy...that's a hoss. Mec, do you have any numbers on the 60 and what were you pushin the Dixie boolits with? Is that Dixie as in Dixie Gun Works? Mykeal, I'll go you one better..it becomes a round ball that's been rammed down the chamber! Got cha! What's this I read about the South loosin the War? I always heard it was and still is a Southern Draw! We ain't slow, we just take our time, and yours too if we've a mind to.

mec
August 20, 2008, 09:14 PM
Its a dixie scizzor mould. they have cherries for various balls and bullets.These bullet resemble those that come from the Moulds that Colt included with the cased revolvers-though some of them differed in various degrees. The moulds, of course threw one round ball and one bullet and were in play before the boxed paper cartridges were in wide distribution. The long shanked dragoon bulllets above were probably made with paper cartridges in mind. At least the long shank would provide a much better anchor for the paper envelop.

The tedious aspect of the Dixie bullet is that you hve to clip and file a long sprue. Pyrodex P gives performance very close to Swiss FFFg black powder
60 Army (Uberti)
180 Grain Bullet Dixie Mould velocity/extreme spread
28 Gr/Vol. Pyrodex P 821 50
28Gr/Vol Goex FFFg 649 81
200 Grain Lee Conical
28 Gr/Vol. Pyrodex P 967 46
35 Grains Goex FFFg 753 46

.454-.457 ball:
28 Grains Goex FFFg Second Generation Colt 822 55
28 Grains Goex FFFg Uberti 871 104
35 Grains Goex FFFg Second Generation Colt 855 37
35 Grains Swiss Uberti 1031 48
Same Load Different Day 1020 34
40 Grains Goex FFFg 992 34
40 grains Goex FFFg with Wonder Wad 942 30
40 Grains Swiss FFFg 1042 49
40 Grains Swiss FFFg with Wonder Wad 1055 80
The values are from volume measures calibrated for weight with Goex fffg. The actual weight with the denser swiss powder is several grains heavier. Grain per grain though, the swiss is still more energetic than the goex.

Also, a 40 grain charge is very hard on the loading lever and is a bit too much of a good thing.

Pyrodex P
22 Gr/Vol. Pyrodex P .457" 725 25
22 Gr/Vol. Pyrodex P .454" 712 27
28 Gr/Vol. Pyrodex P 841 54
*30 Gr/Vol. Pyrodex P .457 931 (lubed 1/8" wad) 21
30 Gr/Vol. Pyrodex P .457 904 (lubed double wad) 47
*30 Gr/Vol. Pyrodex P .457
Uberti Army made in 1980 899 77 Identical revolvers made
in 1980 and 2004
35Gr/Vol. Pyrodex P 1047 116
35 Gr/Vol Pyrodex P with Wonder Wad 1055 69
35 Gr/Vol. Pyrodex P different Day 1046 77

Bayou Runner
August 21, 2008, 08:09 AM
Mec, thanks for the info on the mould, but more for the ballistics. And you're right about 40grs. under a ball in a 60. I did it once recently with all 6 chambers. Like I said on an earlier post, I had to push a tad harder to seat the ball low enough to be able to rotate the cylinder. It is however, as you say, "a bit too much of a good thing" as I shot my front sight off and had to make a new one. This one is a little taller but havn't tried it yet. It's been raining around here everday which translates to ...I'll have to cut the grass before I go shootin.

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