Are Military Police allowed to CCW?


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recluse
August 17, 2008, 06:56 PM
A buddy of mine is an Army Reserve MP. Is he allowed to CCW (in civilian municipalities) under the provisions of HR 218 or the Patriot Act?

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Autolycus
August 17, 2008, 06:57 PM
I don't believe so. I am sure someone mlore qualified can answer this question.

possum
August 17, 2008, 07:19 PM
no only CID

DMF
August 17, 2008, 07:23 PM
A buddy of mine is an Army Reserve MP. Is he allowed to CCW (in civilian municipalities) under the provisions of HR 218 or the Patriot Act?No.

BTW, the USA-PATRIOT Act has absolutely nothing to do with anyone being authorized to carry concealed weapons. If your "buddy" gave the USA-PATRIOT Act as a justification for carrying concealed when not on duty then he is both a fool and a liar.

Fleetwood_Captain
August 17, 2008, 07:26 PM
I doubt it.

Reservists really don't get any benefits from the government. The only point I can really see to being in the reserves these days is if your tired of being on active duty, but your halfway to completing 20 years of service for your military pension. Otherwise, the reserves are a waste of time.

I wish your buddy the best though.

ilbob
August 17, 2008, 08:42 PM
There was a long and convoluted discussion about this very topic somewhere else that I ran across. The answer seemed to come down to the idea that military personnel are not employees of a governmental agency (I don't recall if the thinking was that military personnel are not employees, or the Army is not a government agency as defined by federal law), and that was one of the requirements.

Ragnar Danneskjold
August 17, 2008, 09:11 PM
No. I'm an MP now, and it doesn't mean jack outside of the few times you might do Provost Marshal duties. Unlike civilian law enforcement, an MP's arms-carrying/arresting authority ends the minute he is off duty. We can't even do anything if we are on duty as soldiers but not doing PM duties. AND even if we are doing Provost Marshal duties, they don't apply outside if military/govt property. So to answer the question about civilian municipalities; no, not now, not in any way does being an MP give you any authority whatsoever in the civilian world.

It may get you out of a few speeding tickets, but that's it.

Craig_VA
August 17, 2008, 09:43 PM
Reservists really don't get any benefits from the government. The only point I can really see to being in the reserves these days is if your tired of being on active duty, but your halfway to completing 20 years of service for your military pension. Otherwise, the reserves are a waste of time.

Not a very high road statement, suggests you're ignorant about the military reserves, and certainly not firearms related.

Loomis
August 17, 2008, 09:47 PM
Military personel were in my CCW class earning their CCW permits just like everyone else.

The only thing being in the military gets you, I think, is you can purchase firearms with a military ID and bypass the permit to purchase requirement or the background check that civilians must do first.

Jim K
August 17, 2008, 10:21 PM
Even government police have no authority off base. In some cases, U.S. police personnel were deputized by the sheriff so they could step outside the gate to direct traffic at rush hour.

Jim

Volponi
August 17, 2008, 10:23 PM
In what state is your buddy?

Last time I checked, in GA, all active duty military personell are allowed to CCW - no permit required.

Of course this is the sort of thing that would vary from state-to-state, and has nothing to dso with HR218 or hime being an MP. Still it shows that under some circumstances he could carry without a permit, provided that he's carrying his active-duty ID.

recluse
August 17, 2008, 10:24 PM
Thanks for the clarification!

And no, DMF, my friend did not mention either HR 218 or the Patriot Act. I simply wondered whether either article contained provisions authorizing CCW for military LE personnel. I asked because he didn't know. He just got back from the sandbox, where he earned a Bronze Star for pulling a severely wounded Marine colonel out of a burning Hummer.

azhunter122
August 17, 2008, 10:27 PM
I know someone like that also. He is only 18 and CCW's everyday. I thought he would be legal. PM me if you know for sure.

Thanks

azhunter122
August 17, 2008, 10:29 PM
Sorry, actually he is 19. Don't think it makes much of a difference though.

DrewH
August 17, 2008, 10:54 PM
Your friend has not obtained a CCW permit where his state requires one to CCW? Then, yes, he is most likely illegal.

He might be able to OC, or CCW if he lives in Vermont, or Alaska, but just being in the military does not give you inherent authority to CCW

One state, IIRC, Georgia gives all military members CCW rights-but that is granted by state laws and is not inherent to being in the military.

And if he is in Alaska a senior Army officer was forbidding soldiers to CCW off duty at least for a time.

I think if he is CCWing as a member of the Army reserves he is lacking in good judgement and potentially could be really get himself in hot water.

csmkersh
August 17, 2008, 11:18 PM
Reservists really don't get any benefits from the government. The only point I can really see to being in the reserves these days is if your tired of being on active duty, but your halfway to completing 20 years of service for your military pension. Otherwise, the reserves are a waste of time.

Not a very high road statement, suggests you're ignorant about the military reserves, and certainly not firearms related.

Nor is it correct. Reserves have been providing Pysops and Civil Affairs support to Actuve duty units both CONUS dn OCONUS. Currently there are Reservre units and individual volunteers in both Iraq and Afghanistan. There's many support type units/individuals that have been called to active duty.

I can't help but wonder what Fleetwood_Captain's problem is. Sounds bitter.

ilbob
August 17, 2008, 11:49 PM
No. I'm an MP now, and it doesn't mean jack outside of the few times you might do Provost Marshal duties. Unlike civilian law enforcement, an MP's arms-carrying/arresting authority ends the minute he is off duty. We can't even do anything if we are on duty as soldiers but not doing PM duties. AND even if we are doing Provost Marshal duties, they don't apply outside if military/govt property. So to answer the question about civilian municipalities; no, not now, not in any way does being an MP give you any authority whatsoever in the civilian world. I don't think that was the question asked. Generally any cop who is not within his area of jurisdiction has no authority to enforce any alws at all (keep in mind many states have laws where LEOs within the state have jurisdiction across the whole state).

The question seemed to be about whether an MP could carry off duty under HR218. Forgetting for the moment whether the military says you can or not, would HR218 allow it. The answer seems somewhat cloudy due to the really strange way the term qualified law enforcement officer is defined.

`(c) As used in this section, the term `qualified law enforcement officer' means an employee of a governmental agency who--

`(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;

`(2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;

Taken at face value, it would appear that a lot of people who are not traditional LE personnel would qualify. For instance, a lot of arson investigators and correctional officers would appear at first glance to qualify. But in practice, no one seems to want to be the test case to find out just what the limits are.

I had read somewhere that a county sheriff in CA did stop issuing CC permits to at least some of his reserve officers on the theory that they are covered by HR218. Don't know if it is true.

Titan6
August 18, 2008, 04:17 AM
Can an MP CCW under the Patriot Act? = NO

Can an MP CCW off post due to their status as a military LEO?

USAR MP = When activated and authorized by the NCA only
AD MP = When authorized by the NCA authority only
USAR CID = While on AD Only
AD CID = Yes
ARNG MP= When activated and authorized to conuduct operations by the govenor or NCA only
ARNG CID= I don't know of any but imagine they would be allowed during their regular weekend drill and when activated. If this were the case they potentially might also be allowed when conducting duty for points.

ilbob
August 18, 2008, 08:12 AM
Can an MP CCW under the Patriot Act? = NO

Can an MP CCW off post due to their status as a military LEO?

USAR MP = When activated and authorized by the NCA only
AD MP = When authorized by the NCA authority only
USAR CID = While on AD Only
AD CID = Yes
ARNG MP= When activated and authorized to conuduct operations by the govenor or NCA only
ARNG CID= I don't know of any but imagine they would be allowed during their regular weekend drill and when activated. If this were the case they potentially might also be allowed when conducting duty for points.
I agree the Patriot Act has nothing to do with anything here.

The other issues seem to be related to military rules and regulations rather than HR218, which was what the OP asked about. I am not sure there is a conclusive answer WRT HR218.

<added> I would also point out that the law only preempts state and local law. That might be an issue since military rules and regulations have a law like quality to them, and are not state or local law. The point would be that a local judge might decide you are covered by HR218 and dismiss carrying charges against you, but it would do nothing to promote your military career and you could potentially still be prosecuted by the Army for violating the rules the Army has about these things.

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