[Tengu Joker]

I've been debating getting another sight for my 870. I was looking at getting a ghost ring when I stumbled across the "Scout Rifle" concept. After looking at some of the benefits of this type of setup I started thinking about mounting a red dot to my shotgun as well. Which would you recommend: ghost ring, red dot or the bead I have on my 870 now? This is a home defense/plinking shotgun.

[Dave McCracken]

I'm not a big fan of relying on anything needing batteries.

Nothing beats a bead for speed when it comes to shotgun sights. And beads work amazingly well IF the shooter is familiar with them.

I do have GR(Peep) sights on my two "Serious" 870s. I use them for deer hunting with slugs. That would be my second choice, given the missions mentioned.

[Matt-J2]

I wouldn't go the scout route with a shotgun, if it's even really possible. Never seen a forward mount for the typical shotgun, anyhow. There is for the Saigas, though, and maybe a few other new types.

At any rate, mounting a red dot/holosight low enough on the receiver should be easier and work a bit better anyhow, and if the batteries die or it malfunctions, you should still be able to see the bead. One of those Burris Speedbeads looks about ideal in ease of mounting and ability to switch to the normal bead without extra effort, but I have no idea how durable they are, nor how long the battery actually lasts.

[ImARugerFan]

For home defense, I think the bead you have is the best option.

[Titus]

I think the Sidearmor rail I have extends about as far forward of the receiver as any I've seen and that is not much. I still like it but 1. I only shoot slugs and 2. for your inside the house ranges, the bead should do you as well as any sight option. I did initially try it out with a Tasco ProPoint I took off a .22 to see if I liked it and that didn't hold up, so I went to an Aimpoint. For myself, I would rank my choices red dot, ghost ring, bead, but for your use, I'd probably go bead, red dot, ghost ring. Or even bead, ghost ring, red dot, if you were trying to not spend more than the cost of the gun itself. :)

[rcmodel]

For home defense, simpler is WAY better.

Are you going to ask the home invaders to hold up a sec while you turn on the red-dot sight and adjust the brightness level?

(That's assuming of course, that the batteries are not dead when you do get it turned on.)



IMHO: At HD range, that little brass bead, or Tritium front sight if you get fancy, is all the sight you need or want!

rcmodel

[Matt-J2]

Are you going to ask the home invaders to hold up a sec while you turn on the red-dot sight and adjust the brightness level?

With the right red-dot, neither of those are real concerns. Many of the better ones have battery life measured in years, not hours, and that's with being on, 24/7. So you just leave it on, no need to fumble with a power switch. If it doesn't auto-adjust the brightness, you can easily determine the optimum setting for your home and leave it there.

Now, that's not to say the bead isn't good. The bead is great. It's about as simple and dependable as things can get. If one wants optics, however, there's certainly options that work just fine, and that bead will still be there if needed. Though I will add I'd prefer tritium or fiber optic myself for a bead. I want to see the bead, not attempt to see it, and both options are much easier for me. I have a tough time with brass beads even in good light.

[rcmodel]

battery life measured in years,Yep!
I have some expensive flashlight parts in the junk collection caused by leaking batteries that should have lasted a lot longer then they did!

rcmodel

[CWL]

If you are going to mount sumthin' needing batteries, I'd suggest you mount a white light system to it and keep to your sights stock.

At least with a white light, you can identify what you are about to ventilate.

[Tengu Joker]

First of all thank you for the responses ! The primary reason I was looking to replace the bead is that it is harder to see in the dark. I have been thinking about getting a flashlight attachment( the ones I have seen are a bit pricy but I'd rather spin the money and get a good one ) and just calling it a day until the discretionary fund builds back up.

[dagger dog]

I installed a B-Square saddle mount and a 32mm red dot sight on my 870.
The next time I picked it up the battery was dead, my fault didn't turn it off.

You can see under the saddle mount and still see the bead. If you use one of the fiber optic green beads they seem to work well in low light, as would be in a home (lamp light, flashlight).

If you go for a red dot get the one with the largest tube diameter available, it works well and is easy to pick up in your sight picture.

I use my red dot with a battery pack varmint style light for night hunting fox and coyote. I carry a spare battery for the red dot under the magazine tube screw cap, insulated with a couple washers made of thin plastic.

[rbernie]

In all seriousness, I have to ask: why is it that the HD carbine guys claim to show target acquisition and split times that clearly favor an optic (Aimpoint or similar) over peep irons when tested side by side, and yet the scattergun HD guys are quite convinced that a front bead and proper training is all that's needed?

I do not understand the disparity in opinions (especially when both are uttered by people who's background I greatly respect)...

Who can help 'splain this to me?

[Gordon]

I actually like the 870 18" Police RS barrel with Trigicon inserts Loc tighted into the factory sights after adjustments.I used Ghost rings since the middle 80s and in the middle 90s started putting Aimpoints and Reflex sights on my gamed out 1100s. I now own 1 1100 for Deer hunting with a 2x illuminated reticlue scope on a Weaver see under detachable mount with the Trigicon bladed factory RS 21" barrel and a rifled choke tube. I can pull the scope off and either switch tubes or barrels for other hunting, which is what I do when I go to Ohio in the fall to see relatives.
The 870s, being the ultimate combat shotgun IMHO remain Tac'ed out!

[Dave McCracken]

rbernie, rifle guys don't shoot 4" discs out of the air for practice and fun much.

And, gamer toys and real world crisis management tools sometimes differ.

[Titus]

Who can help 'splain this to me?

For defensive use, I'm not sure I can. As someone who puts red dots on shotguns and lever guns, I've noticed these are two types of guns folks seem to have an aversion to using with red dots, with "tradition" being as common an objection as any. I also prefer Aimpoints and would point out that the US armed services somehow muddle by with them, but then some wise guy is going to come along and make a joke about the M16 and next thing you know, thread lock! :)

[shooterfromtexas]

The eotech on my Mossberg 930spx works very well. Very quick and accurate enough for me.

[CWL]

Have you considered XS Big Dot Sights in tritium? These glue over the bead.

http://www.xssights.com/store/shotgun.html

[rbernie]

rbernie, rifle guys don't shoot 4" discs out of the air for practice and fun muchUnderstood. I was trying to compare SD vs SD - no other sporting uses.

And, gamer toys and real world crisis management tools sometimes differ.
Well, I guess the reason I ask is that when My Rich Uncle starts putting Aimpoints on carbines for CQB use, I have to believe that there's some rational data to support that.

I'm not trying to start a whole 'black BDU' thread veer here - I'm just trying to grasp the essence of the differences in dynamic SD using a shotgun vs using an M4 carbine and how that translates into different sighting choices.

[Leadhead]

First time I've heard Aimpoint's refered to as "gamer toys" :D

An aimpoint is definately not "needed" on a HD shotgun but I don't think it will slow anyone down and it will help for longer shots.....the possibility of a mechanical failure is small but even without the sight the gun will still function and if you know your gun you should be able to make hits at close range regardless.

I understand the keep it simple approach and agree but I don't consider aimpoint's toys either.

[DMR]

:eek::p:scrutiny:

My 11-87 has a 1913 rail installed halfway down the barrel and Trijicon/Scattergun sights. It used to have a Ultra Dot mounted on it. Right now it is waiting on either a AimPoint Micro T-1 or a FireSite/Doctor/Trijicon or maybe even a Zeiss Z-Point.

They are not a must have, but are an interesting option. Battery Life is great, the dots are quick and easy to pick up, ect... The barrel started out has a cantelever barrel. I removed the catelever part and latter had Ed at Vandenburg Custom convert it to a 1913 rail.

That said I wouldn't have it done again for a shotgun.

[rbernie]

That said I wouldn't have it done again for a shotgun.Excellent feedback - why do you say this?

[rcmodel]

I think we lost sight of the OP's question & statement.

It said This is a home defense/plinking shotgun.

I think red-dots, Aimpoints, ACOG's, EO's, all of them are great fun, and probably unbeatable for Plinking, Gun Games, Military Combat, SWAT entry Teams, anywhere in fact, you saddle up and get ready to go fighting or gaming.

But for HD, bump in the night, inside the bedroom distance, you don't need the complexity, distraction, or potentially dead batterys of an electronic sight on a gun.

Get a Tritium front bead, or heck, use the brass one that came on the gun.

rcmodel

[DMR]

Oh yeah, here is my 11-87 before:
http://pro-patria.us/11-87IVs.jpg

and you are reading this right, after:
http://pro-patria.us/1187Right.jpg

Used the same things twice in one day for seperate posts.:scrutiny:

Ok, why? Frankly I don't find that dot sights add enough to a shotgun to justify the expense. The shotgun is PRIMARILY a short rang weapon ie, inside 25 m. The methods for employing a shotgun are well proven and work well with out going to uber cool dot sights. They do work and provide a margin of improved performance, but many do so at the expense of taking away from the shotguns strong points.

Also, getting that mount made was not cheap. I am mainly looking at a new sight becasue I have this set up. Now if you are going to shoot a lot of slugs, or are going to be able to use some of the interesting rounds in development for the .mil optics like the T-1 have a place. Until then they are only projects for me.

FOR HD a simple bead and some training will do all you need.

[Titus]

That brings to mind at least three possibilities - you're using the wrong sight, you're using the sight wrong or you need a pistol.

[DMR]

ok..........

[Titus]

Check the post times. :)

[DMR]

[QUOTE]But for HD, bump in the night, inside the bedroom distance, you don't need the complexity, distraction, or potentially dead batterys of an electronic sight on a gun.
QUOTE]

Ok titus I'm with you now.

[Striker]

I have used and really like an SD/AP 870 equipped with a the Trijicon Reflex Sight shown here, third listing down:

http://www.trijicon-inc.com/Specialties/military.cfm (http://http://www.trijicon-inc.com/Specialties/military.cfm)

This gun is used exclusively with slugs and tight patterning Fed RR 00 Buck. This sight is tritium powered so no battery issues, simply index the chevron on the threat and engage...very, very quick and accurate (assuming a good zero for the load(s) used!)

Is it faster then a conventional bead/GR/RS gun? I think so, but it does not obviate the need for trigger time and practice.

Works well for me in that application, but as always, YMMV.....

[Tengu Joker]

Wow that's a lotta responses. I think what I'll do is see if I can get a bigger bead with tritium inserts. BTW I do have a pistol, I just like my gauge a lil bit more.