5.45x39 accuracy is terrible.


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Blarelli
August 18, 2008, 05:33 PM
I have a polish tantal and the accuracy is totally unacceptable. I am using Hotshot 68 grain ammo, and as I type this I am going through and scraping off brass that has been pealed up by the bullet being seated and I am noticing unreal amounts of inconsistencies in the casings, and bullet. Some cases are thicker, some are longer. Some of the bullets are significantly thinner then others, and I figure if I can see that with my naked eye then I've got a problem. My question to you is what 5.45x39 ammo can I get that is more consistent, and could you throw a few links to that ammo my way?

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ramis
August 18, 2008, 06:11 PM
My google-fu is strong grasshopper.

http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=18|830|851

I shot 300 rounds of the wolf 70 grain through my tantal without a problem. The milsurp stuff is corrosive but it's good too.

xd45gaper
August 18, 2008, 06:16 PM
www.aimsurplus.com

russian surplus, after all they did design the round :)

really about all Surplus 5,45 is good stuff. the wolf is pretty good to. i dont think ive ever had a FTF with it.

Blarelli
August 18, 2008, 06:19 PM
What kind of accuracy were you guys getting with the Russian surplus? I'm getting most of my shots in about a 14" group, with fliers out to more then 20". With a regular AK I can get smaller then 10" groups.

grilledcheese
August 18, 2008, 06:59 PM
You might want to do a search here on THR and on google for Tantal problems. As I recall there were more than a few people who bought Century-made Tantals that were keyholing and printing horrible groups due to the rifles being improperly barreled.



Jeffrey

NCsmitty
August 18, 2008, 07:01 PM
I thought Hotshot ammo was better than regular surplus?

NCsmitty

dfariswheel
August 18, 2008, 07:45 PM
Try some different ammo.
The Bulgarian and Russian surplus is good, but remember that it IS corrosive, so you'll have to flush the rifle with hot water prior to normal cleaning.

However, when you have accuracy that bad, I'd suspect a defective rifle.

Jguy101
August 18, 2008, 07:46 PM
The Bulgarian and Russian surplus is good, but remember that it IS corrosive, so you'll have to flush the rifle with hot water prior to normal cleaning.And that includes the gas tube.

KBintheSLC
August 18, 2008, 07:47 PM
My question to you is what 5.45x39 ammo can I get that is more consistent, and could you throw a few links to that ammo my way

I have had great luck with Russian Barnaul ammo (Golden Tiger, Brown Bear, Silver Bear, etc.). It is the best cheap ammo around IMO, and is non-corrosive. 5.45X39 goes for about $189 per 1000.

jobu07
August 18, 2008, 08:47 PM
2" to 4" with tapco g2 trigger.

Evil Monkey
August 18, 2008, 10:31 PM
If I recall, there's some serious barrel issues with the tantals if they're from century. It has to do with the bore being larger than the 5.45.

9mmepiphany
August 18, 2008, 11:24 PM
if you want real ammo consistency to se how accurate you guns is, get yourself some boxes from Dynamite Nobel...century threw in a couple of boxes when i got my Romo AK-74 (Sar-2)

Blarelli
August 18, 2008, 11:28 PM
If I recall, there's some serious barrel issues with the tantals if they're from century. It has to do with the bore being larger than the 5.45.

So I very well could have myself a next to worthless rifle. What are my options?

dfariswheel
August 18, 2008, 11:36 PM
Option include sending the rifle back to whoever built it for a repair, having it re-barreled, or dumping it.

My first move would be to talk to the builder.

Blarelli
August 19, 2008, 12:01 AM
I assume the builder is Century. It is printed on the side after all. Does anybody have any experience sending a gun to them to be worked on? And as for having it re-barreled, what price range am I looking at for that to be done?

Kurt_D
August 19, 2008, 12:11 AM
Century will not fix a rifle with a over sized barrel because "it was design to shoot surplus ammo only" which is BS. The only reason surplus is more likely to stablize is it's 52gr.

Kits are in the $350-$380 range. You'll need one to get the barrel then sell off the remaining parts for what you can get. Then you'll need someone to press out the old barrel and press in the new one. One guy on ARforums said he's done 2 with out headspace issues. Not worth it IMO as there's Bulgarian builds in the price range then.

MechAg94
August 19, 2008, 07:34 AM
I have a tantal made on an ArmoryUSA receiver. I can get pretty decent groups with it. At least they are good enough that the sights and me are the limiting factors, not the rifle. I got a WASR from AIMSurplus that shoots much better than yours. Hell, it is almost more accurate than my Tantal, but it has other issues.

I shoot either Russian surplus or Wolf ammo. Both seem to shoot just fine. Yes, the Russian surplus is corrosive so don't put away the rifle dirty.

Levan9X19
August 19, 2008, 07:44 AM
I got a russian made Vepr semi auto rifle in that caliber and used only russian surplus ammo. results where satisfied all the time I shot it. 1.50 MOA on 100 meters and also regulary made 7 to 9 cm groups on 200 meters range.

allways used PSO-1 optical sight and shot from the prone position. It became extremly difficult to get surplus or commercial ammo so I had to sold it.

AnimeFanatic5602
September 19, 2010, 01:30 PM
My advice is to get an Arsenal SGL 31. You may pay a bit more, but it's a russian rifle, converted in the U.S. by working carefully with Izhmash. It's as close to a mil-spec AK-74 as you can get without joining the russian army. I plan on buying this as my first rifle.

HorseSoldier
September 19, 2010, 01:51 PM
Step One -- get some actual military 5.45mm ammo from where ever (Russian, Bulgarian, doesn't matter much) and see what you get with that. Your rifle may have one of those "special" Century barrels, but I've also seen anSBR'ed AKSU type rifle from a much more reputable manufacturer that couldn't stabilize the overweight loadings but which was a sub-4 MOA gun with 52 grain ammo.

Step Two -- If that doesn't fix the problem, contact Century and good luck with that.

happygeek
September 19, 2010, 02:40 PM
I got a Bulgarian AK 74 from Century for $370 with free shipping that shot a roughly 12 inch group at 200 yards with Russian surplus 5.45 despite my mediocre eyesight and shooting ability. I got a scope mount and plan on putting a red dot of some sort or compact scope on it in the not too distant future, then those groups should shrink considerably. I am not used to pistol type sights on a rifle.

I looked at the Tantel at the time I ordered the Bulgarian on Centerfiresystems.com, but I didn't like the wire folding stock they had on it. My intention for the AK 74 was to do cheap centerfire range shooting, so I kinda wanted a full butt stock.

wnycollector
September 19, 2010, 04:58 PM
What kind of accuracy were you guys getting with the Russian surplus?

I have a Saiga IZ-240 (5.45x39 version). I can keep a full 30 round mag of bulgy 7n6 on a 5.5" shoot-n-c target at 100 yards shooting prone off a sandbag or two.

Pilot
September 19, 2010, 05:17 PM
My Polish Tantal came in kit form before the barrel ban and was complete except for the receiver. I had it built up on a U.S. receiver and accuracy with Russian Wolf or milsurp is superb. I have read of problems with out of spec Century barrels, but also heard they have improved. There were keyholing issues at one time. Sounds like you have an ammo problem though.

General Tso
September 19, 2010, 05:45 PM
Silver Bear

anthony-white
September 19, 2010, 05:48 PM
Century was using .224 (for .223 rem) barrels on a round that needs a .221 barrel when building some of the Tantals. Are you getting any key-holes? Not to insult your intelligence but that's where the bullet isn't going in point first.

ironhead7544
September 19, 2010, 07:01 PM
I have an early Tantal from Century. The bore measures .224 and pulled bullets measure .220 to .221. That might not be the case for your rifle. I have tried a lot of different ammo and the accuracy varied greatly, even in my other rifle that has an original barrel. Try some other ammo, Silver Bear works somewhat OK with 1 in 10 or so keyholes. I have started loading .224 bullets for the oversized bore rifle. Only 20 rounds so far using cases from Wolf ammo. With IMR4198 and a 75 grain A-Max bullet (1 in 7.7 twist) it groups into 1.25 inch at 50 yards with no keyholes. This with iron sights and 61 year old eyes. The .224 bore will allow me to use a much larger number of bullets than what is available for the 5.45x39. Hornady is now shipping 5.45x39 ammo using an V-Max 60 grain bullet loaded in cases from overseas. It may work in your rifle as it has copper jacketed bullet that may slug up better than the steel stuff. Dont write off the rifle yet.

dom1104
September 19, 2010, 07:41 PM
If I recall, there's some serious barrel issues with the tantals if they're from century. It has to do with the bore being larger than the 5.45.

Do you realize how :what: this is to someone more familiar with american rifles?

The wrong BARREL lol.

"Well, this one should work." <hammer hammer hammer>

Voila!

Yeesh.

zoom6zoom
September 19, 2010, 07:46 PM
I'd slug the barrel first to determine your actual bore size. Until then everything is conjecture.

Ignition Override
September 20, 2010, 09:57 PM
A young guy at the river got a bullet jammed in his bore.

He mistakenly used .223 (5.56) instead of 5.45 x 39 ammo. This has probably happened to a few people with similar number calibers.

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