[psyprofessor]

I just read an article in Guns and Ammo.."Model 1911" special issue... the author makes a side comment that after 5000 rounds, Baretta M9 will soon need a refit/repair.

Is this true?
In less than a year...I have fired over 1000 rounds...and plan to fire another 2000 rounds within the next year. I hate to think that I can't trust this gun to perform safely in three years...

How long does a gun like a Baretta M9 last before needing repairs? (I meticulously clean this gun after every shooting.)

[8040Cougar]

Thats BS from the 1911 snobs, I've seen cases of old 92s with upwards of 200,000 rounds on the original locking block. Look around on berettaforum, you will see lots of people with high round count pistols that have flawess or near flawless reliability records. Dont believe the hype.

[Prince Yamato]

I have a 92FS that I bought used. It was pre-warning label, so I think it's relatively old in terms of 92FS guns. I've put over 5000 through it. It works fine.

[9mmepiphany]

if you're concerned, just make sure you have a Gen 3 locking block in your 92...the locking blocks cracking was a Gen 1 problem

[Lookn4Brass]

Our fellow members are correct. That is definitely BS about the Beretta. I have a 92FS that has seen alot of use too, and works great. The news about the locking blocks on some Berettas is fairly common, so I use one of the Red Buff shock buffers that fits on the guide rod (can get them from Brownell's for just a few bucks) and change it every 1,000 rounds. Some folks will tell you to stay away from the shock buffer wafers, but if you change them like you're supposed to, you can bet your life on them. They also tame the felt recoil just a little bit when the slide comes all the way back.

[mgregg85]

I would be careful and inspect the locking block carefully after each outing. Other than that I'm sure it would be fine. I bet the pistols they use to train at boot camps have way over 5k rounds through them without any locking block replacement.

[Tully M. Pick]

You need to check the tellurium content of the slide as well, since it will probably crack and hit you in the face.

[Loomis]

If you are that worried about it, get a brigadier slide.They're beefed up a little.

[psyprofessor]

1. can someone show me a picture of the "locking block"...(in an M9)

2. how would i know if i have a Gen 1 or later model?

[psyprofessor]

What is a brigadier slide? How would one go about asking for it? Could I simply order this from any gun shop?

[VHinch]

Shoot it and don't worry about it. Watch for unusual wear as you are cleaning, but don't give a lot of thought to round count. The way your post reads I am assuming you bought you 92 new within the last year or so? If that's the case, don't worry about the locking block. If your 92 is a few years old and you bought it used, it couldn't hurt to replace it.


I have 3 Berettas that all have well over 20,000 rounds through them. 1 of them had the locking block replaced at around 25k, the others have had nothing but springs changed.

[Steve in PA]

Like the others said, nothing but BS from 1911 fools. The same guys who are constantly replacing this, that or the other thing on their pistols.

I have a 17 year old Beretta 92Fs that I could not begin to tell you how many thousands of rounds I have put down range. The locking block did break around the 10 year mark, but there was waaaaay more than 5,000 rounds through the pistol. It was also the old style lockiing block, without the relief cut.

This is a picture of the locking block. The old style, which broke is on the right. The new style, with the relief cut is on the left.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/Steve_in_PA/Guns/lockingblock.jpg

[spwenger]

...the US Border Patrol was issuing Beretta 96's, along with the relatively hot 155 gr. .40-caliber JHP's. Most of the USBP firearms instructors estimated the service life of those pistols as 3,000 rounds.

The Los Angeles Sheriff's Department saw lots of cracked locking blocks with its issued 92F's.

Does this mean that every Beretta 92 or 96 will fail somewhere between 3,000 and 5,000 rounds? No but if it's a gun you carry to protect your physical well being, these issues don't inspire an awful lot of confidence.

(Disclaimer statement: The only 1911 I currently own I picked up in a swap so that I would have one to demonstrate in my CWP courses. I have never fired it.)

[Jim Watson]

Ernest Langdon competed with a Beretta before going to Sig Sauer and now Smith & Wesson. He had a strict maintenance schedule to be sure his gun did not let him down in a match. Probably would not wanted it to let him down when he was in USMC, either:

"I put in a spring pack (LTT package: recoil spring, trigger spring, trigger bar spring, cost $5) every 5,000 rounds. This keeps the trigger spring from ever breaking, I tear down the top end every 10,000 rounds, clean out all the carbon and unburned powder and install a new firing pin, firing pin spring and striker. Cost for these parts is $11. At 20,000 rounds I rebuild the top end. I replace all the slide parts subject to wear; extractor, springs, firing pin and such. Cost for parts is $40. I'll also fit a new locking block ($70) at this point."

[LegalAlien]

after 5000 rounds, Baretta M9 will soon need a refit/repair.


That may be true of a BARETTA, even though I have never heard of such a make. Could it be some cheap Chinese knock-off. They always have a habit of slightly miss spelling a brand name :D

However, a genuine BERETTA made in Italy or Accokeek MD is a totally different story.

[CWL]

I'm a M1911 "snob" yet I know that Berettas M9/M92fs will last longer than 5,000 rounds. Anything made for modern war is made to last. If issued one, I'd carry it for war.

I don't know what the article is or the date of it, but the author might have been addressing the original M97f which suffered from frame cracking problems during Govt. trials. -The response from Beretta was to enlarge the hammer pin in order to keep the slide from flying off the frame into the shooter's face. -This improved model became the M92fs & M9.

I would imagine that anyone taking part in Govt. testing of the original M92f and had 'eaten' a slide wouldn't think too highly of them.

[psyprofessor]

Thanks for all the replies. BTW, I bought my Baretta M9 about a year ago...have shot about 1000 rounds...has worked perfectly.

[TeamPrecisionIT]

Beretta!!! Not Baretta. And as a side note, wasn't the M9 subject to a 30,000 round test by the military when it was adopted as the service pistol? IF it were to s%^t the bed before that, I doubt it would have replaced the 1911.

Damian

[Leanwolf]

SPWENGER - "The Los Angeles Sheriff's Department saw lots of cracked locking blocks with its issued 92F's."

Nope.

Not as long as I was there including 5 1/2 years as Weapons Training Instructor, Advanced Training Bureau, L.A.S.D.

In 1988, the Los Angeles Sheriff's Dept. began the transition from the issued S&W Combat Masterpiece (Model 15), .38 Special, to the Beretta 92FS 9mm. At any given time, there were 8,100 regular Deputy Sheriffs and 900 Sworn Reserve Deputy Sheriffs that had to transition and be trained, etc. That's give or take a few, 9,000 Beretta 92FS pistols. Including original training, then bimonthly qualifications, plus CFT (Continuous Field Training), each pistol got a workout with thousands of rounds fired.

I was very well acquainted with the LASD's two armorers. Before I left in 1997, I asked them if they had experienced a lot of cracked locking blocks? One of them answered, "We've seen two."

Even after I left, I kept -- and still keep -- in contact with some of "the boys" down there who are instructors in the Dept. They have seen very, very few cracked locking blocks, and the armorers have told me that the very few generally are a result of not keeping the block lubricated.

I do know that I had shot thousands of rounds of factory ammo through my issued Beretta 92FS before turning it in when I retired, with not one single locking block problem, or any other problem, for that matter.

I bought a new 92FS from the Dept. when I left. Lots of rounds through it too, with no problem.

That's my experience, FWIW.

L.W.

[jaholder1971]

Take a 92FS, run 5,000 rounds of NATO spec (124 grain, 1250+fps) through it and yeah, there's going to be a _few_ parts showing enough wear to consider replacement. Is it time to stop the war and pull it from service to fix? No.

Keep in mind that, for 95 percent of Beretta owners and users, including Law Enforcement, 5,000 rounds is a lifetime of shooting and then some. Even if that assertion was true, it still leaves the vast majority of Beretta owners unaffected.

[possum]

that mag is a load of bs just like the rest of the gun rags that come out.

[10-Ring]

Let's see -- 2 Italian 92fs' - one w/ 12,000 rounds through it, the other I bought used and have put 10,000 rounds though it and at least 1/4 defensive rounds -- and still as solid as when i bought them

[spwenger]

I was very well acquainted with the LASD's two armorers. Before I left in 1997, I asked them if they had experienced a lot of cracked locking blocks? One of them answered, "We've seen two."
...who competed on the LASD action pistol team, experienced a cracked locking block on his issued 92F. He went through a bit of a hassle getting the armorers to examine it, when he complained of degraded accuracy. When the crack was discovered, he was essentially told that they were only seeing this with deputies who did a lot of shooting on their own time.

Feel free to e-mail me (spwenger@spw-duf.info) if you'd like me to put the two of you in touch to discuss this. You may actually know each other. He retired last year and did a stint at Laser Village before promoting to sergeant.

[Leanwolf]

SPWENGER - "... He went through a bit of a hassle getting the armorers to examine it, when he complained of degraded accuracy. When the crack was discovered, he was essentially told that they were only seeing this with deputies who did a lot of shooting on their own time."

That's one I haven't heard of, although I suppose stranger things have happened. As LASD Deputies in addition to bi-monthly qualification shooting, plus the Continuous Field Training shooting, were encouraged to shoot on their own time whenever they had the chance, I can't imagine one of the armorers hassling him over inspection of his Beretta. Afterall, it was a very simple inspection that could be conducted in a couple or three minutes.

I'll e-mail you as I wonder when this happened and who was the LASD armorer who was giving your friend a ration of crap on his Department issued Beretta. (??) Caption on e-mail will be "Locking Blocks-Beretta."

Laser Village was a good setup. Sometimes they had problems with it, however.

L.W.

[Eric F]

Hey guys, not that I have really ever been interested in one, But what about the 5-10 year old rumor of stress cracks and such, any truth to that?

[Elm Creek Smith]

The problem with M9 Berettas breaking was the slide cracking at the locking block notches. If the cracks weren't noticed, the back of the slide could come off and hit the shooter in the face. This was solved with the installation of a slide block that prevented the back half of the slide coming off if it broke. This problem was seen in M9's used by "special operations" teams using hot, heavy bullet ammunition.

In my last four years in the Army, I never saw it.

ECS

[VegasOPM]

Don't tell either of my Berettas that they have a 5000 round limit- they'll go on strike.:uhoh:

[Average Joe]

Mine is way past 10000 rounds and still going strong.. Where do these people get their info ? sounds like sour grapes to me.

[Radagast]

There is an old thread on frame failures here:

http://www.berettaforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=21786

[Dr.Mall Ninja]

just buy a 1911 and forget about it :D

[steveracer]

I've been to dozens of military pistol quals, and hundreds of other various shoots. Navy armorers are notoriously bad about maintenance, and these weapons have many tens of thousands of rounds through them, often without one single spring replaced. I've never seen, and never been told of, a broken locking block on an M-9. The one I'm carrying here now is date marked AN, or 1985, and it appears to have many, many rounds downrange. I replaced the recoil spring when it was issued to me, and it is still going strong. No appreciable wear on any of the internals, although there is a LOT of wear on the finish. These guns run and run and run. The locking block thing just doesn;t happen any more than any other small part breakage. It doesn't warrant any concern for the prospective buyer.
BTW: I AM One of those 1911 fools.