several months of research and I'm down to a list of 7

[Hubster]

First of all, I really want to thank all of you for the tremendous input on this site. I'm a researcher by nature and I've gotten TONS of information here during my search for the best concealed carry personal defense weapon. In no particular order, I've narrowed my search to:

Kel-tec PF9
Kahr PM9
Walther PPS
S&W 642
Glock 26
CZ 2075 rami
Ruger LCP

I'm going to a range/rental store this weekend and firing a few rentals, and then I hope to make my purchase. I've saved plenty of money so cost isn't really a factor. I simply want a reliable gun that is easy to conceal, preferably in a pocket carry. Any thoughts are appreciated.

[Drgong]

all nice guns, best of luck!

[leadcounsel]

Several of your guns, such as the Glock and Rami, are NOT comfortable (and the Glock with a round in the chamber is not safe) pocket carry guns.

[Hubster]

leadcounsel,

I agree. It's a tradeoff - less comfortable and harder to conceal, but more of a "solid" feel. That is precisely why I am torn. I've read a lot of problems with the Ruger LCP, so it is close to coming off the list, but for now there are still 7.

[Kind of Blued]

The J-Frame simply can't be beat in my opinion.

15 ounces, endlessly concealable, and it will never fail you. They're not extremely fun to shoot, but it sounds like you're looking for a carry gun, and if you ever HAVE to use it, it won't be fun no matter what gun you use.

[JJE]

Dang! Your list after "several months of research" is longer than most people's starting list! Start making some decisions! The single most popular gun on your list has got to be the 642, so that's my recommendation.

[RyanM]

Glock as an "uncomfortable" or "unsafe" pocket gun depends entirely on the pants you wear, and whether you're an idiot (in that order).

I've carried a Glock 23 in a pants pocket numerous times, without any issue. In jeans, it would never work, but slacks or khakis with big pockets, no problem. And if you use a legitimate pocket holster, it's no less "safe" with one in the pipe than any other DAO gun with no manual safety, like 4 other ones on that list.

[Smaug]

Based on what I've read here and at TFL over the past few years, you can scratch off Kel-Tec and Kahr from that list, as they aren't bet-your-life reliable like the others.

Of those, I'd get a Walther PPS, Glock 26, or Ruger LCP.

[newmaxx11]

if i were you i would try to shoot the kahr, the kel-tec and the lcp. all of them are very pocketable. so it will be very easy for you to actually carry them immediately. a little bigger gun then you have to worry about which holster to get where and how to wear it...can i wear with this or that,,,just start with a nice small pocket gun. i know that there are good and bad reviews on each of them but you should try each for yourself and then decide.

[vow]

I have carried Glock 26 in a pocket holster in my front left pocket for years with no problem. Your best safty is your trigger finger, keep it off of the trigger until you are ready to fire. That goes for any weapon. The Glock is a weapon that you can depend on, it's a tool and a simple one at that. vow

[jaholder1971]

Several months to pick 7?

In that time frame you coulda just BOUGHT all 7 and tried them all out, picked the best for carry and keep the rest.

[Guns and more]

The list is too broad. Do you want to pocket carry? IWB carry?
Belt carry? For pocket I'd go with the LCP. For IWB I'd pick the PM-9 (I have one). And for holster carry OWB, I'd buy the Rami. (I'm thinking that will be my next purchase.)
Better yet, Get one of each, you will anyway.

[Indifferent]

642 revolver
2075 semi

[weisse52]

Well your list is a big one. Hopefully when you try them out one will just really jump to the top of your list
While I love the 642 you have on the list, most are real solid.

I would suggest that you plan on a couple of trips before you make a decision. Maybe one or two to narrow your list and then one last trip to decide.

Good luck!

[FranklyTodd]

For so much research, you have some darn chunky guns on your list for pocket carry. From you list, the 642 easily, for reasons stated elsewhere.

Renting the guns is a good idea, but which one you enjoy shooting is only part of the equation - realize that ease of carry needs to really play a big part in your decision.

I have an M&P340 lightweight j-frame, and gets tons of pocket carry. I also have a Ruger LCP. It is a fantastic pocket gun, if you are comfortable with the firepower it brings 6+1 .380s. Mine has had no reliability issues.

Still, in 90% of my pants, the j-frame will work anywhere the LCP will.

I've pocket carried a Glock 26, I sincerely doubt you would like that for your primary... it's like carrying a paperback book in your pocket.

Best of luck!
FT

[SuperNaut]

Hubster I'm doing the same thing you are. See this thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=375984) for some more data.

Despite Glock and Kahr winning the poll, I'm still looking hard at the PPS and the PX4 sub. Just goes to show that data doesn't always win the day...:)

[1/7GRUNT]

I own the S&W 442, the cousin of the 642 and I love it. Reliability is what i like most about it. If you can rent some of these guns then do that, then buy several!!

[skinewmexico]

Paralysis by analysis, dude. Nothing is gonna be perfect.

[SaxonPig]

Oh my God...

Several months to narrow the choices down to seven?

LOL...

[Bennett Prescott]

Several of your guns, such as the Glock and Rami, are NOT comfortable (and the Glock with a round in the chamber is not safe) pocket carry guns.
I agree that I wouldn't want to be sticking a Glock compact in my pocket...

But unsafe? Why? The OP would of course be carrying in a pocket holster to keep anything from engaging the trigger, as one should do with ANY gun. At that point how is it any different from the Glock I carry in an IWB holster every single day, every where?

[10-Ring]

As pocket guns go, I've gone w/ the 442 & couldn't be happier. So, from your list -- I'd go /w the 642 ;)

Just out of curiousity -- how much experience do you have shooting? :scrutiny: These aren't exactly the easiest guns to learn to shoot on & may not inspire a lot of beginner confidence

[machinisttx]

But unsafe? Why? The OP would of course be carrying in a pocket holster to keep anything from engaging the trigger, as one should do with ANY gun. At that point how is it any different from the Glock I carry in an IWB holster every single day, every where?

The only external safety device on a glock is on the same lever that causes the gun to fire. Not really a good arrangement for a partially cocked autoloader IMO, and particularly one with a somewhat light trigger(when compared to double action only guns). The short trigger pull(comparatively speaking) doesn't leave much margin for errors either.

A revolver or typical DAO autoloader doesn't have any external safety devices, but they DO have heavier and longer trigger pulls. In the case of the revolver, it takes anywhere from two to three times as much pressure to cause the gun to fire as it would a glunk. With that much difference in pressure, the user is bound to notice something isn't right when attempting to reholster with something in the way or inside the trigger guard. Since the trigger pull is longer, the user also has slightly more time to realize an unsafe condition.

[memphisjim]

the glock is a bit thick for pocket carry but can easily be done with the right pants
the 642 is a great pocket gun
the pm9 is good but not as reliable as the glock
642 would be my vote
have you looked at a seecamp lc380?

[Girodin]

The only external safety device on a glock is on the same lever that causes the gun to fire. Not really a good arrangement for a partially cocked autoloader IMO, and particularly one with a somewhat light trigger(when compared to double action only guns). The short trigger pull(comparatively speaking) doesn't leave much margin for errors either.


That is the reason a proper pocket holster is important (as is the case with any gun you will be carrying in your pocket). Another important part of pocket carry is to only have the holstered pistol in there, no keys, chapstic, etc. With a holster covering the trigger and nothing else in your pocket I do not see the Glock as being unsafe nor notably less safe than the other DAO pistols listed.

[Kind of Blued]

Also, don't be afraid to buy a gun that might be too big for a pocket if that's the gun you really want.

They make these things called holsters that are like pockets, but they're actually designed to have a gun in them. ;) They're arguably more comfortable and concealable as well if you buy a good one.

And it's nice having your pocket back to, you know, put stuff in... like more ammo. :)

[possum]

welcome to thr, go with the walther or the glock an you will be good to go.

[Hubster]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Yes, this much research and I still have a list of 7. I'm a reasearcher - that's what I do. I've learned a great deal and ruled out many more than seven guns.

As far as experience goes, I'm 41 years old, raised in the country shooting rifles and handguns, and spent six years in the army where I fired expert with both my M-16 and Colt 45. I've owned a S&W 38 revolver with four inch barrel for many years. I have not had any experience shooting the smaller "pocket" guns.

I do intend to pocket carry with a holster and had pretty much decided on the 642, but my sister works in law enforcement and she is strongly encouraging me to get a semi automatic over the revolver, especially seeing how I already have a revolver. I definitely plan to buy something in the next few days, and I guess I can always purchase more if I need to, but I really want to make the best choice first.

[streakr]

642!!! Good wheel guns never fail.

s

[woad_yurt]

You mentioned the LCP but not the P3AT, which I have. So, it seems that the .380 round itself is ok with you. My friend has an LCP and it's a bit thicker than the P3AT; his shows a little in the pocket while mine doesn't. His has also jammed a bit at the range, enough to make me cautious about betting my safety on one. Check out a P3AT before you decide. Mine's a flawless performer. No jams at all since I've owned it. I carry it without a holster in my right front pants pocket all the time and when I go to the range, it'll have lint and dust on it from a month or two in my pocket. It always works fine. I then clean it and carry it until I want to brush up again, skill-wise, at the range. Anyway, that's been my experience with it. It's the smallest, lightest pistol around that packs a decent punch.

[ArchAngelCD]

I only own one of the guns on your list, the M642. (but I have fired 5 of them) I think you know which I would suggest you buy...

[florida1098]

Don't ever believe wheel guns never fail. Just look through these forums and you will see just about every type of problem with them. Timing, cylinders that don't turn, light firing pins, hammers that won't cycle, and dirt and grease fouling things up. I own two 340pd's and a model 19 and 64, but my only carry is Glock. IMO they are more reliable than revolvers. I have never seen one not go bang and have seen revolvers that did'nt while on the range in NY.
I also like the fact there is no manual safety levers on the Glock to worry about. When I put my finger on the trigger all I want to concentrate on is the situation at hand, not did I remove all safety devices. To each their own, it's just sems wrong to tell someone revolvers never fail. I do agree the 340pd is easier to carry than Glock 26/27 but those extra rounds and reliability seal the deal for me 99% of the time. I had a 642, but the weight compared to the 340pd seemed significant to me.

[19-3Ben]

my sister works in law enforcement and she is strongly encouraging me to get a semi automatic over the revolver, especially seeing how I already have a revolver.

If anything, the fact that you already have a .38cal revolver would lead me to think that by getting a 642, you would be able to keep things nice and simple with only one type of ammo. If you buy a 9mm or .380, you'll have yet another caliber to stock up on.
Just a thought.

[weisse52]

I have to agree, if you have a .38 revolver now then a 642 makes sense. You are use to the action, and you have common ground for ammo.

As the argument that a Glock is un-safe. Not sure I agree, not sure I disagree. You can look the facts and figures up, but I am fairly
sure that there have been more ND / AD with Glocks than with a revolver with a fairly heavy double action only.

Yes, a pocket holster makes them safer, but again, research has shown for a Glock most ND occur when holstering the firearm.

And one last thing. I am 6'3" and 240. I have tried a Glock 26 in a pocket holster. It was not comfortable. But that is just my opinion. WAY too lumpy..If you go with the Glock, go with IWB or OWB.

[Bennett Prescott]

As the argument that a Glock is un-safe. Not sure I agree, not sure I disagree. You can look the facts and figures up, but I am fairly
sure that there have been more ND / AD with Glocks than with a revolver with a fairly heavy double action only.

Yes, a pocket holster makes them safer, but again, research has shown for a Glock most ND occur when holstering the firearm.
I fail to see how that can be considered the gun's fault. If the holstering user is an idiot and puts their fingers where they don't belong, and shoots themselves, well... it was only a matter of time.

Where do we stop with this "heavier trigger pull"? Should I get a 10lb trigger? 15? After all, I'm trying to make the gun safer... at some point, of course, I will be unable to fire it.

Let's put the blame back where it belongs. Improper holstering of a weapon (really, breaking one of the rules of safety) can cause a negligent discharge from nearly any firearm. If some idiot is going to reholster with their finger on the trigger, we might as well assume they're going to reholster with the safety off on a cocked 1911 as well, so the model of pistol is really unimportant. The user is unsafe, a negligent discharge of their pistol is inevitable. Let's hope it happens when they're reholstering, at least then they'll shoot themselves out of stupidity, instead of me!

I have never seen facts and figures on negligent discharges of firearms. You obviously have access to this information, I would love to read it, where can I find it?

[NG VI]

Glock 26
CZ 2075 rami

Not good for pocket carry, although with the right pants my Glock 27 does pretty well in a pocket holster, but those would be my two choices.

[Tirod]

I would think if the LCP is on the list, the Keltec P3AT would be also. Both have about equal reliability as made and delivered now - not based on posts from much earlier in either's product cycle.

I think the bigger issue is carry - there is a substantial difference is the optimum carry from largest to smallest. That would be the next decision, then base an acquistion on that. If pocket, then a .380, if IWB, a 9MM.

Moving into actual carry will show what priorities you have, and give you real data not based on research. Some don't conform to Glock grips well, but like the carry - which makes up 90% of what you do with a firearm. Others want comfortable carry, but after some time on the range, insist on better performance.

It's just a firearm in that regard, choose one, learn from it, and then adapt to it or change the firearm. It's what we all wind up doing, and a lot of that is due to changes in lifestyle that negate previous conditions.

[Gordon Fink]

Several of your guns, such as the Glock and Rami, are NOT comfortable (and the Glock with a round in the chamber is not safe) pocket carry guns.

I wouldn’t recommend a Glock for pocket carry either, but it would be perfectly safe in a proper holster.

~G. Fink

[benderx4]

Kel-tec PF9 - Kinda big for pocket, not known for its reliability/quality

Kahr PM9 - people either love or hate these things - you can find plenty of internet threads on both

Walther PPS - still fairly new but I loved the one I handled at the gun shop - great reviews too! Skinny.

S&W 642 - Hard to argue with this baby, it's a S&W and it goes BANG every single time

Glock 26 - VERY reliable but many folks don't feel comfortable carrying it chambered

CZ 2075 rami - Way cool gun, but kinda heavy and blocky for a pocket gun. (Kinda like a XD-9sc)

Ruger LCP - new kid on the block, still working out some bugs, VERY concealable but only a .380

Final Thoughts: If these are your choices, I'd go with the S & W, Walther, or Glock. Shoot those 3 a bunch and then buy the one you feel most comfortable with. (Personally, I can't hit the broad side of a barn with a snubbie revolver but my son is deadly with it.)

Final final thought: If money is no object, find yourself a nice used HK P7 and be done with this nonsense!

[weisse52]

As to ND and Glock. When I have access to the Internet on something other than my Blackberry I will hunt it down.

OR just Google Glock and ND / AD and then start wading through the fact and fiction.

Now the "rest" of the Glock faithful can wade in to tell me how wrong this is. I am going back to work.

[CWL]

How do you conduct "several months of research" without shooting any guns?

Go and shoot some already, then figure out what feels good in your hands, how it handles at the range, and how if dents your wallet.

[MICHAEL T]

Well I hope if time comes to need a gun you don't take that long to decide .
How long on ammo choice 2years :D
Get the S&W snub load it and be done opps I forgot we ain't to ammo selection are we:rolleyes: Good luck

[Josh Aston]

I was going to suggest either the 642 or the Kahr PM9. Seeing as you already have a Smith revolver, I'd go with the 642. Keep things simple.

[jad0110]

While some are able to pocket carry a Glock, that is likely the exception, not the rule. Glocks are fine firearms, but people call them "Blocks" for a reason. As someone else said, pocket carrying a Glock is similar to carrying a paperback novel.

IMHO, "baby" Glocks are not true pocket guns. If pocket carry is going to be your primary method of carry, then a dedicated pocket gun is in order.

The S&W J Frame and Taurus small frame revolvers are generally considered the upper limit in size for pocket carry. Ruger's SP101 works too, though it is a tad heavy. And the tiny Kel-Tec P3AT, Ruger LCP etc completely vanish in the pocket. Perhaps too well: one reason why I prefer a J frame for pocket carry is it does have a prominent grip that is easier to find and grab properly in a hurry than the tiny LCP or Kel-Tec. The rounded backstrap of the enclosed and shrouded hammer snubs also facilitates reliable, snag free draws.

In that regard, even if a Glock can fit in your pocket, I kinda doubt it is as quick and easy to draw as something like a S&W x42. Again, not knocking Glocks. I just think they are better suited to carry IWB or OWB.

But in the end, you have to able to shoot the gun, or it just won't serve you well. Snubs can be a challenge to shoot. So can tiny automatics. So try them out and see what works best. For the record, I shoot snubs better than small autos, but you may be different.

[Felonious Monk]

Just a few things I don't see addressed so far:

1) Price of ammo: 9mm is the cheapest of all calibers you're considering.
2) Flexibility: Several Carbines come in 9mm. .357 too, some others.
3) IMO, Glock=Block. YMMV.
4) I've owned the Kahr (MK9) and it is well made, but for carry, see #3.
5) 9mm and .380 are the same size diameter, so pick the one you can control.
6) That brings it down to the PF9 for me.

I own the P3AT and like the Ruger LDP too. My wife still carries a P32, and shoots it SCARY well, but is NOT comfy with a more potent caliber. Placement is primo. My daughter carries an LDP.

The extra oomph and cheaper ammo trumps it for me PERSONALLY.
PF9.

You can thank me later. :cool:

[zoom6zoom]

I'd suggest the 642 also. You're familiar with the manual of arms for a wheelgun, no suprises there. It's easy to pocket carry or IWB, and can easily make the transition to the ankle as a BUG if you get something larger to belt carry later. And I hear there are even some available without the Clinton lock now.

[Orange_Magnum]

Keep studying.

[thebaldguy]

Start with the 642; then do some more research and pick a semi-auto.

[iiibdsiil]

I'd scratch the PM9 off and replace it with the MK9. I haven't had the pleasure of handling a PM9, but it seems that there are a lot more complaints with that vs the MK9. I would never think about complaining about the weight of the MK9, and with a good belt I don't even notice it.

[LongRider]

You did not have an XD on your list. You may want to read these links to XD article if you have not seen them.
XD Torture test (http://springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory11.php)
SPRINGFIELD'S XD SUB-COMPACT GOES HIGH-CAP (http://springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory23.php)
SPRINGFIELD'S XD GOES THE DISTANCE (http://springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPStory20.php)
THE XD EXTREME DUTY SERVICE AUTO PISTOL (http://springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory07.php)
SPRINGFIELD'S .45 GAP XD TACTICAL PISTOL (http://springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory22.php)
SPRINGFIELD XD .40 SUB-COMPACT (http://springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory03.php)
SPRINGFIELD'S X-TREME DUTY POLYMER POWERHOUSE (http://springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory14.php)
The XD Goes ACP (http://springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory27.php)
SPRINGFIELD'S SUB-COMPACT XD (http://springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory08.php)
Springfield's XD Keeps On Growing (http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/springfieldxd_061206/)
SPRINGFIELD'S XD GETS LITTLE (http://springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory16.php)
Springfield's XD .45 (http://americanhandgunner.com/FTR01.html)
SPRINGFIELD GOES POLYMER (http://springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory18.php)
SPRINGFIELD ARMORY XD SERIES (http://springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory01.php)
Sizing Down, Powering Up (http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ga_handguns/springfieldxd45_012307/)
A FAIR SHARE OF ABUSE (http://springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory02.php)

My real life experience with an XD has shown that not one claim in those articles is over stated or exaggerated in anyway.
Being old I never ever thought I'd be shooting tupperware much less praising it but after carrying guns for the better part of thirty years I can not imagine a better EDC for me. Now the XD isn't a beauty queen and you can get lots of prettier guns than an XD. There are even some that are more accurate. But there are none that are more reliable or better suited for EDC than an XD.45. IMO the XD.45 compact is the best Self Defense Every Day Carry gun there is, bar none. With well over 2,500 rounds through it without a single FTF. I know it is Rock Solid Reliable. Hits everything I point it at. Eats everything I feed it. Simple to clean & maintain. The grip and trigger safeties are natural and intuitive. No manual safety to confuse matters or cause a delay when nano seconds count, make it ideal for self defense. Just my opinion.

[Hubster]

Well boys (and girls) my decision has been made. After the research and visiting both a gun show and a firing range, I've decided to purchase both a S&W 642 and a Kel-tec PF9. I think it gives me what I need. I do sincerely appreciate all of the suggestions.

Oh, and by the way, research is a good thing! Those that questioned the depth of my research maybe should reconsider. Knowledge is a good thing!

Thanks again for all the help. Stay safe out there.

[MSC]

Hubster, I'm curious to hear some followup on your choices, if you could. I recently bought a Smith 442 (blued 642) for carry, mainly pocket. And although I love it functionally - dead reliable, 38+P punch... FOR ME, it doesn't quite meet "pocket" criteria. I'm a tall, thin guy, and in most pockets it's just a bit too much. Doesn't really work well in jean/pants pockets, unless I wear something pretty baggy (i.e. too large). In baggy cargo pants, it seems to swing around too much. Basically, it only works well in a select few pairs of pants. With cooler weather approaching, though, it's going to be real easy to stash away - jacket, vest, etc... And I just love the safety and reliablity of a revolver. So I'll likely just hang onto it, and pick up a true pocket semi-auto.

So, to my point... Please let me/us know your thoughts on the 642, and more-so, the Kel-Tec 9mm (are the bugs worked out?), thanks!