sig 556 or ar15


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kry_90
August 19, 2008, 11:18 PM
so ive been looking to buy i rifle and im stuck in a fork in the road one road leads to the ar 15 the other to the sig 556
i plan on spending about 900 to 1200 on a rifle im a firm believer of you get what you paid for. (just ask my mail order bride :( jk)
i think its between a colt ar 15 and a sig 556
which i believe would run close to the same price new so thats not a issue
i like the fact that the sig has a gas piston system, comes with rails already on it, it has a charging handle, ambi saftey, and that it accepts ar 15 magazines
i like the fact that the ar 15 has more accesories than ill probably ever know of, easily available parts, weighs less than a sig and fully costomizable to what ever i want
i dont want to cover which ever rifle i buy with every accesory i can find just a scope, back up flip iron sights, a bipod
the rifle will be used for medium to long range. i have my shotgun for close range
and before i get lots of people ranting ar ar ar ar
i would like to hear actual reasons why people choose one over the other
remember when the m16 was first introduced people wanted nothing to do with it and were very biased

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Z-Michigan
August 19, 2008, 11:21 PM
If you can get a Sig 556 NIB for under $1200, please let me know where...

The Sig is a good gun, but you are stating medium to long range. A light profile 16" barrel on a .223 is not well suited to long range, and is mediocre for medium range. If you really want long range, the analysis ends here and you should get an AR with a 20" or better yet 24" barrel.

kry_90
August 19, 2008, 11:22 PM
well my definition of long range is 200yards
what can i say ive been i shotgunner for a very long time

Wolfman_556
August 19, 2008, 11:25 PM
I'd pick the Colt AR15 for two reasons:

#1 - the Sig 556 does not have a chromed bore.

#2 - I'm not a big fan of carbines. I like full length rifles.


But those are just my personal tastes.


The AR15 of today is not the quirky rifle issued in Vietnam. Most of the reliability issues have been resolved (turned out to be a combination of mainly three issues - bad ammo, magazines, and lack of maintenance). My AR is a modified Bushmaster 20" HBAR and it's been every bit as reliable as an AK, likewise for the AR I learned on - Dad's old late 70's A1 Colt.

kry_90
August 19, 2008, 11:28 PM
whats the purpose of a chrome bore

possum
August 19, 2008, 11:30 PM
welcome to thr, and congrats on wanting to get a black rifle, no matter what you get be sure you let us know. a report would be great and everyone loves some pics.

i say go for the ar for these reasons.
i like the fact that the ar 15 has more accesories than ill probably ever know of, easily available parts, weighs less than a sig and fully costomizable to what ever i want
also they are proven, the sig 556 hasn't really been around that long to get a good following, and there just aren't enough reviews out there about them that give me the warm and fuzzies.

i personally choose the ar over any other black rifle for a few reasons, i am good with it, better with it than any other rifle, shooting it is second nature, i know how to run one and keep it running, and i have used one not only in the army for 5 years but even longer as a civilian.

Zak Smith
August 19, 2008, 11:32 PM
I thought pretty hard about getting a Sig 556 Commando, and putting a UBR stock on it. I shoot a lot of AR15's, but thought it wouldn't be bad to branch out and try something else. What killed it for me was the extremely long and poor trigger reset on the Sig. Yes, it breaks nice, but it has the throw of an AK and the nebulous reset of a BHP.

kry_90
August 19, 2008, 11:33 PM
well i have no rifle experience
so which ever i choose im sure id get good with it

kry_90
August 19, 2008, 11:34 PM
trigger reset
by that do you mean it would affect how fast i can pull the trigger

possum
August 19, 2008, 11:36 PM
so which ever i choose im sure id get good with it
whatever you get,go to an apple seed with it.

another point that i forgot to mention is the fact that the gas impigmented system has been around for this long, the system works, and that is a main reason that i don't go the piston route, as well there are some folks in the training arena that i highly respect as people, warriors, and their opinions, they see many many many different weapon systems, and lots of rds down range every year, and they have stated that the piston guns have had issues in the past, not the sig in particular but piston ar's, which is another reason that i am hesitant.

anymanusa
August 19, 2008, 11:39 PM
gas piston adjustable sig. That can fulfill your .223 needs, then go on to other calibers and forget that you ever desired that round.

308 and 7.62 x 39 are MUCH more fun to shoot, and more effective in my book. I'm glad I have one AR15, but I don't desire any more that that. I have two 308's, wouldn't mind another or two, and one 7.62 x 39, wouldn't mind a few more of those either, but the .223 round isn't on my 'desireable' list.

basicblur
August 19, 2008, 11:40 PM
Well if I knew where you were (it's not in your signature, and I never bother to check anyone's profile) I'd tell ya if you should decide to go with the AR, Town Gun Shop in Collinsville VA just got 10 Colt M4 Carbines, and they're on sale for $1,200 and change (his normal price is $1,700).
Got a RRA exactly like it as soon as the AWB expired, but if I could have gotten a Colt at that price at the time, I'd probably coughed up the extra $150 for it?

I've seen slightly better prices out there on the 'Net, but nobody seems to have any in stock.

'Course, since I don't know where you're located I'm not going to bother telling you all that!

Zak Smith
August 19, 2008, 11:40 PM
If affects how much travel the trigger must undergo after firing before the trigger is staged on its second stage again. On the Sig 556, it must be let virtually all the way forward, then it must be pulled back through the pre-travel/second-stage, and then it's back at the engagement point. In other words, it acts like a long two-stage trigger on an AR15. This is good for some applications but not others.

To contrast, an AR15 military style trigger once reset is immediately at the engagement point (no additional take-up), and the good single-stage triggers such as the JP require very short reset distance with no add'l take-up.

kry_90
August 19, 2008, 11:40 PM
well i though of mybe getting a sig 556 then a 7.62 ar 15

sarduy
August 19, 2008, 11:41 PM
a high-end AR is about the same or better than a sig 556.

remember when the m16 was first introduced people wanted nothing to do with it and were very biased

remember that the M16 was designed in 1957 and it's still produced, the design have change a little (not much) but they have added a few extra feature, same with a ford car from 1903 or a 2009...

i vote for the AR because there are 10,000,000 extra stuff for them. and you can always change the upper and get a different setup or caliber with the push of 2 pins!

i like the fact that the sig has a gas piston system

you can add a gas piston to an AR, but they work great without one!

comes with rails already on it

Get a Flat-Top upper and they come with a nice rail too!

it has a charging handle

charging handle? that's a standar feature in AR, plus you can get them in any size!

ambi saftey

some ar come with ambi safety some don't, but you can always buy one and install it.

and that it accepts ar 15 magazines

another standar feature of the AR ;)

anymanusa
August 19, 2008, 11:42 PM
My AR is a modified Bushmaster 20" HBAR and it's been every bit as reliable as an AK,

oh really? lack of taper on the round preclude that, imho.

anymanusa
August 19, 2008, 11:45 PM
charging handle? that's a standar feature in AR, plus you can get them in any size!

lol, I would hardly call what comes on an AR a 'handle'.

The charging mechanism leaves much to be desired.

Z-Michigan
August 20, 2008, 12:10 AM
oh really? lack of taper on the round preclude that, imho.

Interesting theory, but in my three AR's I've never had a single failure or issue related to extraction. All the issues I've ever had were magazine related. Get good magazines, insert them properly, no issues. There are now many brands/models of good mags on the market.

lol, I would hardly call what comes on an AR a 'handle'.
The charging mechanism leaves much to be desired.

The standard AR charging latch can be used with either hand pretty easily. I don't know any other system, except maybe the Galil's bent-up handle, that is equally ambidextrous.

I'm not a huge AR fan - I hate cleaning them (20 times more carbon residue than the piston designs), and I think the AR-18 mechanism fixes all the AR-15 problems - but they come in for a lot of unjustified criticism.

sarduy
August 20, 2008, 12:12 AM
double post!

sarduy
August 20, 2008, 12:14 AM
what would you call this?

http://store.a51tactical.com/images/m84gasbuster.jpg

Zak Smith
August 20, 2008, 12:17 AM
Also note that the Sig 556 has its charging handle on the wrong side for efficient operation by right-handed shooters.

Wolfman_556
August 20, 2008, 12:23 AM
oh really? lack of taper on the round preclude that, imho.

5K+ rounds, only two FTF; both due to cheap dud Remington UMC rounds which did not ignite. Not one failure-to-feed or failure-to-eject.

And I do have AK's, also with high round counts, to compare it to.

shooterfromtexas
August 20, 2008, 01:01 AM
The Sig 556 is very front end heavy. I bought the 551 handguards and it is still not very well balanced. I might be looking at the Magpul UBR stock to even things out.

RockyMtnTactical
August 20, 2008, 03:11 AM
The AR15 has all the advantages IMO.

I don't care for the Sig 556's at all.

anymanusa
August 21, 2008, 06:58 PM
Interesting theory, but in my three AR's I've never had a single failure or issue related to extraction. All the issues I've ever had were magazine related. Get good magazines, insert them properly, no issues. There are now many brands/models of good mags on the market.

You've not had any battlefield/dirt/grime/grit experience with either the ak or the ar, have you? I'm willing to bet the tapered chamber comes in really handy if you encounter dirty conditions and you don't have the 'luxury' of having a spotless weapon.

Btw, I have had a failure to extract on my AR.

what would you call this?



I think z-mich called it a latch.

This is a handle:

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k97/anymanusa/fal_1.jpg

Z-Michigan
August 21, 2008, 08:55 PM
You've not had any battlefield/dirt/grime/grit experience with either the ak or the ar, have you? I'm willing to bet the tapered chamber comes in really handy if you encounter dirty conditions and you don't have the 'luxury' of having a spotless weapon.
Btw, I have had a failure to extract on my AR.

Nope, I am not a combat veteran and have used neither of them, nor anything else, in combat. And I don't go tossing my guns around in dirt, like in some youtube videos. However, I expect someone who has used both in the sandbox will chime in before too long (or maybe already has, above).

So, given your statement "I'm willing to bet...", have you used either rifle in combat?

mkonops
August 21, 2008, 09:04 PM
If the Sig was legal in my state I would have one. Otherwise, I'm extremely happy with my AR.

MVF
August 21, 2008, 11:50 PM
I was looking at the same question a couple weeks ago- I pick up my AR in a week (CA 10 day wait).

What decided me was- AR is lighter
AR should be more accurate (hearsay based on reviews and LOTS of time online searching)
So much more flexibility- don't like the grip? Lots of options- ditto stocks, handguards, etc
Get a little flush down the road? for the price of an upper you can all kinds of different variations- including gas piston.

That's me- let us know what you come up with!

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
August 21, 2008, 11:52 PM
AR15, definitely.

anymanusa
August 22, 2008, 12:28 AM
So, given your statement "I'm willing to bet...", have you used either rifle in combat?

No I have not. I wasn't the one who was espousing the virtues of the AR vs the AK not having seen such an environment though. I'd like to think that if I were displaced from my home, and put into very dire circumstances, where my main concern was having to procure food and water, not baby my rifle, I would be able to sustain such a situation with my AK.

Basically what I'm saying is this: the AK is a more versatile/reliable rifle under a broader set of circumstances when compared to the AR. Am I glad I have an AR? Yes. Am I glad I have an AK? Yes x 2. Which rifle would I carry in a survival scenario? I don't know. That is a very close call, but, I can tell you this, If times got rough, really really rough, I wouldn't hesitate to take the AK as my main rifle, knowing that it will take a severe beating and keep on keepin' on. Not only that, but it will load and reload ammo better and more reliably than the AR variant, time and time again, regardless of what ever bias you may have against it, I've found it to be a nice rifle.

My AR has jammed on soft point ammo on several occasions as well, so far my AK hasn't, but I shall see, as time passes, how well it feeds various ammunitions.

Z-Michigan
August 22, 2008, 10:31 AM
Actually, your statement that started this sub-discussion, replying to someone other than me, was:

oh really? lack of taper on the round preclude that, imho.

Where you asserted that the AR is unreliable because the cartridge case isn't tapered. I and several others disagreed, based on our own experience. Now you're claiming that I'm espousing the virtues of the AR vs the AK not having seen such an environment though. Well, the OP didn't even ask about AK's, he asked about the AR-15 and the Sig 556, which is what the discussion was about until you started saying AR's were inherently unreliable. Incidentally, the Sig 556 uses the same cartridge as typical AR's, so if case taper is an issue, the Sig would have no advantage over an AR. Again, OP didn't ask whether he should buy an AK in 7.62x39mm. It would appear your bad view of AR's is based entirely on your own limited, non-combat experience.

So, have a nice day.

New Mag
August 22, 2008, 02:07 PM
I too found myself in the same predicament and came to the conclusion that there was only one solution for me...

I saved up longer and bought them both at the same time:):):)

Below are the pics...

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x79/Newmag_2007/DSC_0434.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x79/Newmag_2007/DSC_0429.jpg

The AR is a Rock river CAR A4. The 556 currently has a Bushnell legend 2x7 scope.
The scope is filling the place until I save enough for a more suitible optic...not sure yet but it may be a acog?

As for the rifles the are both excellent and work without issue. Of course the 556 shoots cleaner due to the piston system and has VERY little recoil...it is because of the piston system that it is heavier in the front than RR AR.

Notice I have set up the AR (lighter, 1x optic,) for close in and the 556 sig will be set up for "longer" stuff.


Just my 2 cents.
God Bless

anymanusa
August 22, 2008, 02:21 PM
Actually, your statement that started this sub-discussion, replying to someone other than me, was:



Actually, I think this statement, which is simply wishful thinking, started this subtopic;

My AR is a modified Bushmaster 20" HBAR and it's been every bit as reliable as an AK,

Where you asserted that the AR is unreliable because the cartridge case isn't tapered. I and several others disagreed, based on our own experience. Now you're claiming that I'm

You and an entire army may disagree if you like. This simple fact of the matter is that the tapered chamber make for easier extraction, period, end of story. Now if you haven't had any extraction issues, awesome, good for you. One gold star coming your way, but the the practical/physical application of the weapon is enhanced due to the tapered chamber of the round it fires, regardless of whatever experience you may have had.

your bad view of AR's
I don't have any 'bad' view, I simply look at a firearm based on it's engineered features, and come to the most common sense conclusion; tapered chamber makes for easier extraction, regardless of whatever you or others may have experienced at the shooting range. From a theoretical standpoint, the taper makes the round superior in a battlefield application.

So, have a nice day.
To you as well.

HorseSoldier
August 22, 2008, 04:00 PM
Basically what I'm saying is this: the AK is a more versatile/reliable rifle under a broader set of circumstances when compared to the AR.

And how much real combat experience do you have with both weapons? I don't know anyone who's been downrange with even a decent level of firearms training who thinks the AK is a more "versatile" rifle, and most aren't terribly impressed with its reliability when run really hard and treated badly. From personal experience, AKs can and do jam. All that stuff about burying them in rice paddies for two years and then them running flawlessly is just mythology.

MechAg94
August 22, 2008, 10:49 PM
Actually, I think this statement, which is simply wishful thinking, started this subtopic
And his AR may actually be just as reliable as an AK. How do you know? You have haven't fired HIS AR have you? He wasn't talking about ALL AR's.

Your other AK arguments are pointless since you brought them up in the first place. If you are trying to create an argument just because you are bored, start your own thread. I am sure you will get plenty of participants. :)

I have a Saiga .223 conversion that is very reliable and has performed very well for me despite its inherently inferior cartridge. It is no less reliable than my Vepr K in 7.62. :D

On that last point, I would say the AR is a more versatile platform by far. The available configurations and ease of change make it so. If you want to change caliber on an AK, you have to get another rifle.

MechAg94
August 22, 2008, 10:52 PM
In response to the OP, I would rather go for the AR. For that kind of money, you can get a pretty nice high end AR and still have access to more after market parts and accessories.

anymanusa
August 23, 2008, 02:05 AM
And his AR may actually be just as reliable as an AK. How do you know? You have haven't fired HIS AR have you? He wasn't talking about ALL AR's.

:confused: is this the twilight zone? Since when does a tapered cartridge hold no advantage when ejecting under less than desireable circumstances?

Your other AK arguments are pointless since you brought them up in the first place.
:confused:

I didn't bring it up, I was correcting this statement:
My AR is a modified Bushmaster 20" HBAR and it's been every bit as reliable as an AK,

Being a fan of the AR (like I am) doesn't make it reliable. Let's step back into the realm of reality folks.

Art Eatman
August 23, 2008, 10:40 AM
I'm not gonna delete all this off-topic AK stuff, but I'm sore-tempted. Won't be any more that survive, though.

And looking at a .223 round here in my hand, hey, it looks tapered to me.

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