Older High Standard Pistols and High Velocity Ammo


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OleCodger
August 20, 2008, 05:24 PM
I have a .22 High Standard Sharpshooter (Hamden vintage) manufactured around 1970. I've seen many warnings to not use high velocity ammo in these older pistols since it potentially will crack the frame over a long period of time. Does anyone know if there is a "cut-off date" on this limitation? Surely sooner or later, High Standard made a pistol back in those days that could safely fire high velocity ammo without frame damage????

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Cougfan2
August 20, 2008, 05:29 PM
Interesting, I have an old late 60's vintage and never heard of the high velocity warning. I've put thousands of rounds of high velocity .22 ammo through my Supermatic Tournament Military with no apparent ill effects although the standard velocity .22lr target ammo does shoot better groups.

rcmodel
August 20, 2008, 05:33 PM
I have never heard that either.

Sure you aren't thinking of pre-war Colt Woodsman?

rcmodel

Hud
August 20, 2008, 05:51 PM
Check out this thread on the High Standard forum at Rimfire Central.

http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234375

Hud

Cougfan2
August 20, 2008, 05:56 PM
HUD, thanks for posting the thread. I want to be able to pass my baby down to my grandchildren. I'll be using std velocity from now on. No reason to chance it.

Hud
August 20, 2008, 06:06 PM
Cougfan2,

I picked up a NIB '79 E. Hartford Sharpshooter M a few months ago for target shooting only. It is accurate as all get out & functions flawlessly with CCI target standard velocity.
I have no reason to shoot anything hotter.

Hud

OleCodger
August 20, 2008, 06:18 PM
Thanks HUD for the link info. My HS is also very accurate and a genuine pleasure to shoot. In fact, it's my favorite pistol. Mine has matching serial numbers on both barrel and frame and also "Sport King" on both barrel and frame. I don't know if it's true but I've read that High Standard had some Sport King frames left over and used them on some of the early Sharpshooters. (All true Sport Kings that I've seen had tapered barrels instead of bulls). Have no idea how factual this info is. Mine does have the heavy bull barrel.

The situation in this area is that "standard" velocity .22 ammo seems to be more and more difficult to locate. My purpose for the original question was to learn if there was a date that High Standard began making their frames a little more high velocity tolerant. If there is such a magical date, I'd like to know "which side of the fence" mine is on!!!

Cougfan2
August 20, 2008, 06:22 PM
I know all of the "Military" models had the straighter handle, very much like a 1911. I had heard that the military even bought quite a few to use in pistol training to save money on ammo. I have been told that the Military High Standards were designed to have the same weight and balance when loaded at a fully loaded 1911.

Was it the Sportking that had the more angled grip?

OleCodger
August 20, 2008, 06:33 PM
Yeah, the Sport Kings had a more angled grip and the barrel was tapered somewhat . I had one years ago and it was the "cat's meow" at that time. I've never seen a High Standard (older ones) that didn't go
BANG every time their trigger was pulled! Hearsay is that the Houston models aren't that high quality but don't know from experience.

By the way Cougfan2, I stole your signature Ben Franklin quote several months ago and use it on all of my outgoing email.........hope you didn't have it copyrighted!!!!

Hud
August 20, 2008, 06:34 PM
OleCodger & Cougfan2,

Unless someone else chimes in here, I would suggest you get acquanted with the guys over on the HS forum. There are many, more knowledgable than myself there that would be more than happy to answer the questions that I can't.

Hud

Cougfan2
August 20, 2008, 06:38 PM
By the way Cougfan2, I stole your signature Ben Franklin quote several months ago and use it on all of my outgoing email.........hope you didn't have it copyrighted!!!!

Nope, Ol' Ben holds the copyright on that one. Unfortunately he is in no position to enforce it. :rolleyes: I wish we had some politicians today that were of the same stripe that Ben and his compatriots were.:(

bluetopper
August 20, 2008, 11:36 PM
Sport Kings (like all the other HS models) came in the slant grip as well as the military grip.

The slant grip frame was used through the 104 model and changed to the military grip frame to mimic the 1911 starting with the 106 models.

Standard velocity ammo is recommended.
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/bendebval/hscollection1.jpg

Jim K
August 21, 2008, 01:19 PM
I think you will find that standard velocity ammo works fine and is likely more accurate than the various high velocity loads.

But as far as safety and durability of the gun, any gun made after about 1950 should be OK with HV ammo.

Please, though, don't subject the old "letter series" High Standards to HV ammunition. They weren't made for it and just won't hold up.

Jim

Craig_VA
August 22, 2008, 06:13 PM
Two years ago my father in law gave wife and me a pair of HS M103 Citations. I called the High Standard company in Houston to ask about use of hot loads (Stingers, etc.). They told me definitely use only standard load .22LR.
The situation in this area is that "standard" velocity .22 ammo seems to be more and more difficult to locate.

Federal bulk box of 550 at W-M works just fine in them.
You can't find them at a Wally World around Searcy?


craig

Standing Wolf
August 22, 2008, 09:42 PM
Hearsay is that the Houston models aren't that high quality but don't know from experience.

I've known a number of people who've bought them and sorely regretted it. I've never known anyone who was happy with a Texas "High Standard."

OleCodger
August 23, 2008, 03:29 PM
Parisite, did you HAFTA post that picture?! Now you have me drooling for other High Standards on Guns America and I'm out of fun money! Beautiful collection!

Craig, I was under the impression that both Remington (not a choice) and Federal bulk packages sold by our local Wally World were HV...mebbe I'm wrong. Wouldn't be the first time! I'll check it out the next trip out that way. Irregardless, my local gun store has CCI Standards and of course I can always order other brands. It's just that I have a lot of HV's in my ammo box that are just laying there screaming to be used.

Thanks to everyone for your input. This is a great website.

Tortuga12
August 23, 2008, 03:44 PM
So, what should I do when standard velocity will not cycle my Supermatic well? I have tried CCI std vel, Remington Target, and Federal Champion, and with all three I get spotty cycling. By this, I mean that the slide will not pick up a new round and return fully to battery. Usually, there will be about 1/16" of space. I can close this with my hand, but this is, after all, an autoloader.

Using Federal bulk pack, or Automatch, cycling is basically 100% reliable. (Don't seem to have many duds down here in FL for some reason.)

Any advice?

bluetopper
August 23, 2008, 03:46 PM
Thanks OC, if it were me I would go ahead and use my stock up of HV ammo, but I would first get a new recoil spring from Wolff Springs. I recommend that anyway of every HS bought.
Then start buying standard velocity ammo. It really is more accurate.

OleCodger
August 23, 2008, 05:57 PM
T12, I have that problem every now and then. Not sure what causes it. I've blamed it on todays ammo having too much lube on it and also suspicioned that the gun needed a good cleaning with a wire brush and solvent. I have noticed that the High Standards (as I'm sure all auto's are) are very sensitive to a clip that is improperly "tuned". I have an ole original heavy steel HS clip that works like a champ. My second clip is a "will fit" and I have feed problem every now and then when I use it. Tends to place the round at too high an angle and the lead nose hangs on the upper part of the chamber. A little "quality control adjustment" with a pair of pliars on front of the rear pair of guides takes care of that problem. I've learned that in most cases, feeding problems are either a faulty clip or dirty gun.

It's a shame that the old Connecticut High Standard factories didn't survive. They made some mighty nice, straight shootin', mighty "purty" pistols.

Hud
August 23, 2008, 07:31 PM
Gents,

HS pistols are sensitive to:
1: Ammo.
2: Magazines, as HS pistols have no feed ramp & feeding is dependant on mag feed lip adjustment (as OC alluded to).
3: Recoil springs.

They should all function properly with standard velocity ammo.
If not, the following link should provide info. on how to correct problems with 2 & 3.

http://users.adelphia.net/~jbarta/otherstuff.html

Regards, Hud

RyanM
August 23, 2008, 08:19 PM
I really doubt that the so-called "high velocity" ammo will wear out the gun any. Federal bulk pack "high velocity" stuff through a pistol won't even go through a quarter.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=52552&d=1170553873

MechAg94
August 23, 2008, 08:41 PM
Mine and my Dad's H-D Military pistols have all shot HV ammo before with no problems. I don't shoot it much anymore, but it is still accurate. Mine is a target model with different grips.

Anyway, if regular velocity is recommended, I'll have to make sure I have some.

rddy
December 28, 2012, 11:19 PM
Thanks HUD for the link info. My HS is also very accurate and a genuine pleasure to shoot. In fact, it's my favorite pistol. Mine has matching serial numbers on both barrel and frame and also "Sport King" on both barrel and frame. I don't know if it's true but I've read that High Standard had some Sport King frames left over and used them on some of the early Sharpshooters. (All true Sport Kings that I've seen had tapered barrels instead of bulls). Have no idea how factual this info is. Mine does have the heavy bull barrel.

The situation in this area is that "standard" velocity .22 ammo seems to be more and more difficult to locate. My purpose for the original question was to learn if there was a date that High Standard began making their frames a little more high velocity tolerant. If there is such a magical date, I'd like to know "which side of the fence" mine is on!!!
Sorry for digging up an old thread, but I stumbled across this when researching one of my latest purchases. It is a High Standard with "SPORT KING" on the frame and "THE SHARPSHOOTER" on the barrel. The numbers match, so it apparently came from the factory that way. I'm still looking for some more information on it but thought I would mention it here since you were curious whether what you had heard was true.

I guess I will be sticking with standard velocity ammo as well.:)

Pete D.
December 29, 2012, 04:26 PM
This thread, raised from the dead in a sense, just caught my eye.
I have a Hamden made Victor that is my main Bullseye gun and has been so for some decades now. It has only ever fired SV ammo and, yet, the frame is cracked. There are two hairline cracks in the frame on the right and left of the top rear of the magazine well. I first noticed these cracks about ten years ago. There is no way that I know of to effect a repair and so I use the gun.
Pete

Kiln
December 29, 2012, 04:41 PM
Interesting. My grandfather has a Hi Standard model HB that has had many thousands of rounds of high velocity ammo through it. Not sure if this is one of the models included or not but it has suffered no ill effects so far. In fact it looks brand new.

Dnaltrop
December 29, 2012, 06:10 PM
I think it's really up to the metal of each individual gun.

Some may survive all the HV you can feed it, some may not.

Enough have cracked, It's the first Semi-auto I was allowed as a child, and I love that M frame too much to see it damaged on a "maybe" after surviving this long.

Furncliff
December 30, 2012, 01:08 PM
This is the Hi Standard given to me by my father before he passed on.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8335/8120586818_0c538bfe9a.jpg

It was made in the late 50's and has seen a fair amount of use. It has a cracked frame. Broke my heart when I spotted it. I have installed new springs and continue to shoot it. I also have a .22 short barrel mag and slide for this gun.

My suggestion is to install a new recoil spring from Wolf and shoot the SV ammo. Midway has many choices of target ammo and besides it's more accurate than the HV ammo.

My Field King.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8329/8120588426_ac86d99836.jpg
There is a real problem with these guns. The triggers will spoil you and it's easy to become a trigger snob.:)

Here is a Hi Standard reference resource. If you ever have feed problems this will help a lot.

http://home.roadrunner.com/~jbarta/otherstuff.html

BlackAgnes
December 30, 2012, 01:56 PM
As far as I know, the only High Standards reported to have cracked frames allegedly due to the use of HV ammo are the 100-series right up to the present time.

The older models, like the H-D Military and the like, apparently do not have the problem.

Tim

Pete D.
December 31, 2012, 08:03 AM
Victor, mfg. 1973 Hamden...
always SV ammo.
http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/PeteDoyle/58D19B82-A995-4853-9002-8459FFF1BF7B-2516-000005121595F6A3.jpg

Jim K
January 2, 2013, 11:09 PM
Just curious, but I sold a lot of those guns and don't remember any factory warning about use of HV ammo, or any customers reporting cracked frames. Did the problem only crop up over time or was there a warning I missed? Certainly HV ammo existed in the 1960's and 1970's, so I would think the factory would know if their frames cracked from using it. (The Colt Woodsman situation was different in that the original gun was made for use with standard velocity because that was all there was at the time; .22 LR HV came along later.)

Jim

Pete D.
January 3, 2013, 06:02 AM
Duplicate

Dnaltrop
January 3, 2013, 03:31 PM
We knew nothing of the problems in the 80's, I'm of the opinion it's the wider availability of information, and ease of communication that has let the various HS owners connect on this particular issue.

Jim K
January 5, 2013, 09:08 PM
Sometimes we don't know or don't see problems. The first time I took a Colt Woodsman all the way down, I was rather astonished at the small amount of metal in the frame after the machining had been done. Later, I accidentally bent one of those frames when I dropped it a few feet. They are plain weak and the H-S pistols are not much better. The Ruger frame, stamped out instead of milled, is tough as heck and isn't going to bend from a dirty look.

Jim

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