Illegals get Drivers License


Ol' Badger
September 3, 2003, 03:09 PM
I just read an artical that Kali is going to give Illgeals in their state Drivers License's. If we now give illegals the right to drive, why not let them caryy guns? Thoughts please.

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September 3, 2003, 03:17 PM
First off, it's a "privilege" to drive, not a right and I don't agree with what Kali is doing. And, being that these illegals are not citizens, I don't think they have earned the "right" to keep and bear arms per our constitution.


September 3, 2003, 03:23 PM
However, since CA simply requires a drivers license, proof of residence like a utility bill, and a HSC card there will be nothing to prevent them (unless they are already flagged as illegal in the system from being caught before.):banghead:

Steve Smith
September 3, 2003, 03:35 PM
The right to carry a gun is a human right and is not a priveledge of being American. These folks already have the right to carry. They have since they were born, just as you and I.

Everyone has the right. Some rights are infringed upon by tyrannical governments, both foreign and domestic.

Mostly Harmless
September 3, 2003, 03:42 PM
The Constitution doesn't grant any rights. It merely prohibits the US government from infringing upon the pre-existing God-given rights of the people who it serves. Citizens, non-citizens, residents or visitors makes no never mind, the right of self-defence and to be secure in one's person trumps any and all governments.

The legality, or not, of one's presence in this country has got nothing to do with one's right to self-defence.


September 3, 2003, 03:47 PM
Kern County (and maybe others) uses drivers licenses as well as voter registrations to draw people for jury duty. Does this mean we might have illegals for jurors? :fire:

September 3, 2003, 04:10 PM
:cuss: All it means is more money in the politicians pocket and the illegals vote.:cuss:

September 3, 2003, 04:20 PM
Tinfoil hat on!!

Pres Fox + Mexico + illegal immigration + Drivers Licenses + voting + guns + Cruz Bustamante + race + MEChA = AZTLAN

AZTLAN refers to the U.S. southwestern states which MEChA claims were stolen from Mexico (disclaiming the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, $15 million paid, etc.), must be reconquered ("Reconquista") and reclaimed for Mexico. :uhoh:

Tinfoil hat off!!

September 3, 2003, 06:15 PM
NY is proposing allowing legal aliens to vote in local/state elections.

September 3, 2003, 07:44 PM
It also means that I could potentially have a dozen different aliases, each with an official CA driver's license to back the charade. If I were a little more devious, I could probably figure out a way to vote that many times as well: a force multiplier of sorts.

Ala Dan
September 3, 2003, 07:58 PM
Greeting's All-

Kind'a like an ole' gentleman from Memphis that we
arrested several year's back. When asked for his D/L,
he gave the arresting officer what appeared to be
UN (United Nations) drivers license. They looked to
be offical, so the female officer began running the
D/L number thru N.C.I.C.; looking for any hit's on a
signal "10-29" (check records for wanted).

Well, the number(s) could not be verified and kept
coming back "NOT ON FILE". So, the suspect was
brought into headquarter's for further identification.
Making a long story short, everything about this
"FOOL" was bogus!:uhoh: His SSN number came
back to "Bro Bill Clinton" and he even had a fake TN
license plate; looking much like an "Olympic" plate
with the words "Import/Export" along with the
number. Those too, were "NOT ON FILE".

To sum up, the perp was ID'ed by the U.S. Secret
Service; and charged accordingly for using "Bro's"
SSN number. Turns out, the old fart had 17
prior arrest; all firearms related. Hell, he may still
be in somebody's jail?

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

Standing Wolf
September 3, 2003, 08:36 PM
States claim driving is a so-called "privilege," but it's a right like any other—and can be forfeited by abusing it.

I believe illegal aliens have an intrinsic human right to keep and bear arms, but only in their own countries. The moment they invade the United States, they're felons.

Of course, the leftist extremists in the People's Republic of California are passing out drivers' licenses like penny candy in the hope of winning votes. The difference between a $25 street hooker and the average leftist extremist politician is the price.

September 3, 2003, 09:03 PM
Kern County (and maybe others) uses drivers licenses as well as voter registrations to draw people for jury duty. Does this mean we might have illegals for jurors?

They can already go down to the post office and fill out a voter registration card. I doubt they would go to jury duty though, there are no consequences for them for skipping it.

Double Naught Spy
September 3, 2003, 11:54 PM
Tarpley, I think you failed Constitutional law. You don't earn the rights of the Constitution. If one had to earn the rights of the Constitution, you can bet there would be a lot of Americans too lazy to put forth the effort. While there may be some restrictions on a few aspects pertaining to foreigners (such as not being able to vote), the Constitution covers all people within the borders of the US. Life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, freedom of speech, and even the right to bear arms (limited status restrictions) are included. Check the yellow form the next time you buy a gun. There is a slot for specific information required from foreigners buying guns.

If the right to bear arms was a human right, earthly right, God-given right, or any other such classifiers, then laws pertaining to gun ownership would not change with borders.

September 4, 2003, 12:07 AM
NO!!! Leave this issue up to the people, not to a governor 1/2 way out the door! Don't reward people here illegally :cuss:

September 4, 2003, 12:12 AM

Motor voter registration + 2 Million illegals = VOTER FRAUD

There is no provision to check that they are legitimate. Also illegal hispanics are what most people have in mind when they think of illegal aliens. What about the illegal al queda members, and criminals who will take advantage of this stupid excuse of a liberal screw up? One thing the idiots never mention is how disengenious their stupid illegal license act is because there is reciprocity in California as far as drivers licenses are concerned.
If you have a Mexican drivers license that will suffice in California!

There is no check for legality when registering to vote. You check the little box that says under penalty of purjury you are a citizen. You go to your polling place, and simply vote because as far as they are concerned you are a legal illegal. The polling people where you vote can't check for legitimacy.

You think I'm wearing a tin foil hat? I'm an American of Mexican descent living in Los Angeles.

September 4, 2003, 01:46 AM
So if any illegal can get a DL, what will happen when I go out of state to say Las Vegas and get stopped. Will my DL work? There is no way to tell if I'm a legal citizen. Will I need a f-ing passport to leave the state?
This is past rediculous and a sad attempt by the left to win this election.

September 4, 2003, 02:47 AM
SSN not to be used as ID, Kali DL handed out at the border crossing, voting rights to anyone with a desire to vote. Kind of a novel social experiment. Check back in a few election cycles and see how we are doing, amigo.

September 4, 2003, 09:48 AM
I believe illegal aliens have an intrinsic human right to keep and bear arms, but only in their own countries.
What Standing Wolf said...


September 4, 2003, 11:25 AM
So if any illegal can get a DL, what will happen when I go out of state to say Las Vegas and get stopped. Will my DL work? There is no way to tell if I'm a legal citizen. Will I need a f-ing passport to leave the state?

I'll bet it won't be long before some states (Texas, hopefully) will pass laws rescinding the DL reciprocity with California for this reason--just like several states are refusing to recognize gay marriages occurring in Hawaii & other states. If "Grey-out" Davis succeeds in this, CA licenses won't be worth the paper they're printed on.

(Of course, this will mean that, due to the inconvienience, the Feds will introduce its own ID card that will be accepted nationwide. At first, it will be voluntary to join (so Calif. citizens won't be inconvenienced when they leave the state), but it will soon become mandatory throughout the nation.)

"Your papers, please...." :fire:

September 4, 2003, 11:41 AM
Let's cut to the chase. Where this is all going is a race/civil war, fomented by the Usual Suspects who have an interest in spreading chaos, subverting the rule of law and reason, and consolidating central control. (I keep my tin-foil hat in my bug-out bag, by the way) All the pillars of our culture and society are under attack. Sovereignty and suffrage will be the next to fall.

September 4, 2003, 01:14 PM
Longeyes hit the nail on the head (typical) in that our sovreignity is at stake. Its all part of the whacked-out liberal idea that it is selfish and greedy to limit the operation of an entity(CA) to a select few(citizens) and that the whole world should take part in the governance of California. "Tear down the walls." It is like some scary social-science experiment conducted by some touchy-feely idealist moron. But no, it is beeing conducted by the majority of our elected officials!
Freaking crazy!

"It takes a village".....BULL S---!

September 4, 2003, 01:31 PM
Feh... I think the source of all of this comes down to CA wanting the $$ from the new licenses and registrations and all. :)

As to the "driving is a privilige, not a right." :barf:
I bought that at 16 in driver's ed. Now... uh-uh. Either we're free to travel or we're not. Now sure, the way the system's set up now, it's hard to get by without what's become a defacto National ID card. Don't make it right... just something to put up with for pragmatic reasons... for now.


rock jock
September 4, 2003, 04:54 PM
The right to carry a gun is a human right and is not a priveledge of being American. These folks already have the right to carry. They have since they were born, just as you and I.
Nope. As many on THR are fond of saying, a person's rights end where another's begin. Our corporate right as a country to national sovereignty trumps their RKBA. Stated another way, they may have an intrinsic human right to self-defense, but they do not have the latitude to exercise that right here since they are trespassers on private property. When someone breaks into my house, or trespasses on my property, the only right they have is to surrender peacefully and quickly before being shot.

September 4, 2003, 09:23 PM
I pray that it will not happen here. More reason not to go to the PRK. I still want to kick it out into the Pacific to make its own nation.

Kann ich Ihre Papiere bitte sehen?


September 5, 2003, 12:43 AM
For the record, driving is not a right, it is a priviledge granted pursuant to certain qualifications and agreement by the applicant to comply with the motor vehicle laws in the state of issuance, and can be withdrawn for non compliance with said laws.

As a retired LEO I can state this with relative certainty. Even the paper license itself belongs to the issueing authority and must be returned to the issueing aency upon the demise of the license holder.

On the other side of the coin, RKBA is just that, a right not granted by the Constitution or any other document, rather it is Inalienable and cannot be taken away.

IMO, a natural disaster that caused the PRK to break off and dissapear into the Pacific Ocean would not be unwelcome. It has truly become the land of fruits and nuts. Too many like the former Governor Moonbeam.

Sergeant Bob
September 5, 2003, 06:18 AM
For years professionals within the criminal justice system have acted on the belief that traveling by motor vehicle was a privilege that was given to a citizen only after approval by their state government in the form of a permit or license to drive. In other words, the individual must be granted the privilege before his use of the state highways was considered legal.

Legislators, police officers, and court officials are becoming aware that there are court decisions that disprove the belief that driving is a privilege and therefore requires government approval in the form of a license. Presented here are some of these cases:

CASE #1: "The use of the highway for the purpose of travel and transportation is not a mere privilege, but a common fundamental right of which the public and individuals cannot rightfully be deprived." Chicago Motor Coach v. Chicago, 169 NE 221.

CASE #2: "The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit or permit at will, but a common law right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Thompson v. Smith, 154 SE 579.

It could not be stated more directly or conclusively that citizens of the states have a common law right to travel, without approval or restriction (license), and that this right is protected under the U.S Constitution.

CASE #3: "The right to travel is a part of the liberty of which the citizen cannot be deprived without due process of law under the Fifth Amendment." Kent v. Dulles, 357 US 116, 125.

CASE #4: "The right to travel is a well-established common right that does not owe its existence to the federal government. It is recognized by the courts as a natural right." Schactman v. Dulles 96 App DC 287, 225 F2d 938, at 941.

As hard as it is for those of us in law enforcement to believe, there is no room for speculation in these court decisions. American citizens do indeed have the inalienable right to use the roadways unrestricted in any manner as long as they are not damaging or violating property or rights of others.
Government -- in requiring the people to obtain drivers licenses, and accepting vehicle inspections and DUI/DWI roadblocks without question -- is restricting, and therefore violating, the people's common law right to travel.

September 5, 2003, 08:14 AM
Anyone considering letting illegal immigrants carry guns should be forced to watch 24 straight hours of "Cops" first.:D

Seriously, though, some California Alderman doofus was on the "O'Reilly Factor" last night talking about "basic human rights and dignity" in regards to this issue.:barf: Arggh. The basic leftist lie that we're all "one world now" as opposed to nations.:cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

September 12, 2003, 12:58 PM

September 12, 2003, 04:10 PM
This was passed on to me by one of my mexican friends.:D

Brian Dale
September 12, 2003, 04:39 PM
Sure - self-defense is a God-given, fundamental human right. We uphold that right for citizens, for legal immigrants and for legal visitors here. We choose to violate it for people like violent felons, and rightly so. Illegal aliens are prohibited from buying guns - check a 4473. Maybe that's proper, and maybe it's not.

But the moment an illegal alien tries to influence our political process, registers to vote, or votes, he becomes a felon. If he's armed, then he's an armed foreign national engaged in the subversion of our government. Even unarmed, this is serious. I say Club Fed.

And how about charging the California legislature with "aiding and abetting?" Given current voting procedures, voting by foreign nationals in this situation is reasonably foreseeable.

September 12, 2003, 05:14 PM
A person only needs a State issued DL to drive on public roads. It's the same with vehicle registration. If you have enough land, you could drive all your life without ever registering your car, or getting a DL.

Standing Wolf
September 12, 2003, 05:46 PM
Given current voting procedures, voting by foreign nationals in this situation is reasonably foreseeable.

Nope. It's already widespread. It's just going to become more prevalent.

September 12, 2003, 08:56 PM
"Given current voting procedures, voting by foreign nationals in this
situation is reasonably foreseeable."

No. Folks, face it, general suffrage has a limited future. Ditto sovereignty.

"We the People" feel increasingly non-represented, treated like farm
animals to be used and abused. At some point, not that far away, people
are going to refuse to play the game.

September 13, 2003, 01:41 AM
What do you call a country with out borders?

Some one elses country!!!!!!


September 13, 2003, 03:21 AM
Just got crosswise with the City of Kimball over this issue of registration.

At the motel I manage, a guy left a truck that had jumped time. He subsequently sent me the title so it is mine -- er, I mean the City of Kimball's.

It seems that they require the registration of vehicles that are parked on private property AND the vehicle must be operable. So here's the rub:

I get the thing titled but, because it is from out of state, I also have to get a VIN check. I tell them that it is inoperable and they say that it is no problem for them to come out and do that. They call and say they have so I go in and pay the $10. I title the truck and, two days later, the CORPORATION is cited for the truck, which has been there for ten months, because it is "abandoned".

I have two weeks to get it running and registered or armed men will come and take the thing away. Now get this:

If I get it running but I don't have the money to get insurance, I can't register it. They come and take it away.

If I get it insured and registered, but I don't get it running, they come and take it away.

If I get it running and insured but can't afford the registration, they come and take it away.

I have argued that registration is the permission given by the state to travel upon the public ways. If it is never driven on the public ways, and remains on private property under my control, it should not need registration. BUT -- Section 60-302 of the Nebraska statutes says that there is a "presumption" that any vehicle "stored and kept more than thirty days in the state is being operated or parked on the highways of this state and shall be registered in accordance with Section blah, blah, blah". In other words, there is no such thing as an inoperable vehicle and, if you have one, you MUST be driving and parking it on the public ways so it MUST be registered. To say anything else is to make yourself a presumed liar.

So the City of Kimball has taken the registration of a vehicle from the realm of a conditional USE permit to the realm of a conditional OWNERSHIP permit. By this standard, the truck has never been mine and is merely under my control until they decide to come and take it away and charge me for the privilege.

When they come to take it, if I resist they will do whatever they deem "necessary", up to and including killing me, to steal this vehicle under color of law. Hopefully, I will have it running by then and can get the required "papers".

I thought it was real nice of them to wait until I had paid them their ten dollars (I wonder who could have told on me?) for the VIN check before they decided to institute these procedings.

In the words of Mel Brooks: "It's good to be King."

September 13, 2003, 05:24 AM
I was not aware that Nazis had retired to public office in NE.:what:

I thought they were all in The Peoples republic of Mexifornia.:banghead: :cuss: :fire:

September 13, 2003, 05:58 AM
Just to add my 2 cents worth, "driving" is not a right. While you have the right to travel at will, in no way can that be construed as being a right to operate (drive) a motor vehicle. Driving is definitely not in the same league as RKBA, or for that matter, Life, Liberty, or the pursuit of happiness.

IMHO, there are any number of individuals who have absolutely no business driving an automobile. God forbid that these space cadets should be able to use the roadways in their 3 ton potential homicide devices without regulation.

September 13, 2003, 09:14 AM
You people are too hard hearted. We should be honored these unfortunate, downtrodden people set their hopes on the US. Destitute and oppressed as they are at least there is sanctuary in the arms of a warm, loving, nurturing and wealth community such as the US. Let us all get a nice warm feeling that we can make the lives of the poor and unfortunate better and more fulfilling.

We've come so far but there is so much more to do.

--Free medical care at the expense of the taxpayer
--Subsidize banks to let them set up accounts for undocumented workers making it more convenient for them to ship their meager wages back to Mexico.
--Don't have to pay state income tax.
--Don't have to pay federal income tax.
--Don't have to pay social security tax
--Don't have to pay property tax.
--Allowed to get driver's licenses with no identity documentation
--Gained subsidized home loans
--Gained home loans with minimal personal information and documentation.
--Free publlic education
--and shortly we will give them preferrential treatment in college admissions
--instate tuition rates

As much as we've done we must out of our duty to the oppressed do more, much much more. It would be only a small step to give them driver's licenses. Please let's all join hands and with one voice loudly proclaim the moral superiority of undocument residents. Let us all resolve together to dig deeper into our wealthy pockets and give until it hurts. Give, my people, give to help the unfortunate and downtrodden.

<Breathes deeply> Oh, I feel so good about myself!

:barf: :banghead: :fire: :what:

September 13, 2003, 12:44 PM
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