Advice for a first time handgun buyer

[JeffDilla]

Hi All,

I'm brand new to this forum. I'm also brand new to handguns. From the various gun forums I've been reading, this one seems very respectable and full of people who have sound, objective advice. I'm interested in buying a handgun for target practicing and home safety, and also taking a handgun safety course. I do have some experience with guns. I used to deer and bird hunt with various guage shotguns, and also several rifles, and have minimal experience shooting .22lr and .22 mag revolvers and semi-auto pistols. I have read many threads relating to the "first handgun" topic, but thought I'd post my own and hope for some "tailored" advice. I have yet to go to any gunshops and handle guns to see what I prefer. I have searched on the NRA website for any basic pistol courses in Maine(where I reside) and have yet to find any available. I think my grandfather is going to give me one of his .22 relovers to start with, and from there I am thinking about a .357 revolver for my first purchase and begin by shooting .38 special with it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[kingpin008]

First of all, welcome to THR!


To be honest, it sounds like you've got it pretty much right so far. Visit a few shops, ask a bunch of questions, and take a safety and handling class. After that, find a range that rents guns, and try, try, try. Don't even think about buying until you've really checked out a few different types and styles of guns (both revolvers and autopistols) and can make a good, informed choice.

Starting with a .22 is great for a lot of reasons - first of all the ammo is super cheap (which is a godsend with the way ammo prices are going lately). Secondly, it's a very forgiving caliber, training-wise. You have a very low-noise, low-recoil caliber that allows you to focus on learning the basics, without gaining bad habits like flinching which can easily develop in new shooters with the larger centerfire calibers. As far as the .357/.38 special goes, Ruger is a great brand to look at. Extremely strong and durable revolvers, with a decent price point. I don't yet own one, but it's a pretty safe bet that a GP100 or SP101 will last you a dang long time provided you give it a little TLC once in awhile. Shooting .38's is a good idea too - not that the gun can't handle it, but because they will be a bit cheaper, and definitely pack less recoil, which when you're just learning or getting back into shooting, can be a good thing for avioding creating bad shooting habits.

Other than that, my advice is that once you find a gun you like in a caliber that you can handle and afford and enjoy shooting - hit the range. Shoot, shoot and shoot some more. There's an old saying that you'll run across in gunnie circles from time to time - BA/UU/R (Buy Ammo, Use Up, Repeat). It's a good saying to follow. :)

Good luck!

[JeffDilla]

Thanks for the welcome. I have been searching for local ranges in my area, and so far I have not found any that rent guns, probably due to the limited number of actual ranges. Do gunshops normally rent out guns?

[gallo]

I prefer pistols, but a 357 is an excellent choice for home defense.

[kingpin008]

Jeff - I don't know of any shops that rent out guns that don't also have a range attached. You're probably going to have to call around to a few places to find some that have a range where you can go and rent a few different types.

Also - don't be put off if you do find a range that rents guns, but will not rent to you on your own. It's nothing personal - there have been a few cases across the country of people showing up at public ranges on their own and renting guns, just to suicide later on when they get on the range. It's screwed up and tragic, but it happens, and some ranges choose not to rent to individuals because of this. If that happens, try to come back with a friend, or spend some time in the shop that's associated with the range, talking to them about what you're looking for. That way, they can start to understand that you're not some random despondent soul just off the street, but an actual potential customer and possible future range member.

[jbird714]

Jeff,

If you have any indoor ranges close to you they probably have rental guns. The few indoor ranges around here(about 60 miles away) have had a pretty good selection of rental guns. Using the rental guns is how I selected my firtst semi-auto pistol. Must have shot every major type in production at the time. Sounds like you have a good plan, just need to try out some different options.

Jay

[ErikS]

I recently started with handguns myself, so I think I can give some advice from my experiences.
First, get some training or instruction. If you cant find a class where you live, try to find someone that can take you to a range and show you basic stance and handling. If you dont know anyone, or cant find anyone, take a weekend trip to somewhere where you can get instruction, even if it would mean driving for hours. The time and money you spend will be worth it.
(If you are in Maine, I think it would be worth it even if you have to go to the Smith and Wesson range in Massachussetts, but I'm sure there are places closer...)

Starting with a .22 is the right way to go, you'll get comfortable shooting without developing bad habits from the recoil.

As for the first gun to buy, I think you need to try a few and see what you like. I've tried a .357 myself, and I dont think it's a beginners gun. The recoil when using .357 ammo is a lot worse than both 9mm and a 1911 in .45ACP, and it's definitelly not something you want to buy a gun for without having experienced it. So before you buy a .357, go to a range, rent one and try it. Rent a few other calibers too.
I'm *not* putting down the .357 here, and I'm *not* saying you couldnt handle it, I'm just saying that it's a lot more power than I expected when I tried it, and I had tried both 9mm and .45ACP before it. (With proper instruction and experience, I think almost anyone could handle a .357. I got all my shots on target, so I did manage to handle it)

The 1911 I actually found really comfortable to shoot, and in your situation I would probably consider that, or a 9mm, before a .357. But each to his own, I just think you should spend some time and money before you make that choice, and know what you are buying.

Myself, I hired an instructor for a few hours. He showed me the basics, and took me through a .22 to a 9mm and then a 1911 in .45ACP. I got to learn correctly from the start, and got to experience a few different guns. I think it was money well spent in the long run.

[Huddog]

Same advise as others try rental guns first in different calibers. I think the first decision is revolver or Auto. You seem to be leaning revolver and that is fine. The primary consideration is find a gun that fits you in a caliber you can handle. Don't spend a fortune on a super high dollar gun. Buy a quality gun and spend the fortune on ammo then practise, practise practise. With enough practise you can learn to handle any caliber in any gun. Glad you have joined us. Shoot and enjoy.

[JeffDilla]

ErickS, Thanks for the advice. I'm currently looking for a range to go to in my area where I can try different guns to figure out what I like. The reason I was considering a .357 is because, from what I understand, .38 special rounds can be fired through it, and have similar recoil to a 9mm. Is this correct? In any case, I definitely plan on shooting various calibers before purchasing anything. Thanks again.

[MAKster]

If I were you I would purchase a 9mm pistol as a first handgun. While starting with a 22LR or 38 spl revolver was the standard advice for many years, most people now gravitate to semiautos so you might as well start there. 9mm ammo is the least expensive centerfire ammo (around $9) and is low recoil. 38 spl is up to around $14 per box.

[ErikS]

You're welcome.
(I actually wrote a long post on another forum about my first times with a handgun, but that's pretty much the center of it.)

I've only used the .357 once, I rented a revolver at Smith & Wessons range, and shot 50 rounds with it, and never tried it with .38 ammunition, so I cant tell you about that recoil.
My previous hiring of an instructor was really good to have, because I had the right stance and handling, so I managed to handle the recoil, even if it really surprised me at the first shot.
(Being a newbie, I figured .357 would be less recoil than .45, being a "smaller" caliber. Finding out it wasn't even close came as kind of a surprise...:) )

As for recoil, I actually found the 9mm to be a bit snappier than the 1911, which I actually found to be the nicest gun to handle, and I was actually more accurate with the 1911 than I was with the .22s.

Best thing to do is to go to a range and try a few different guns, and see what you like. It's really worth the time and money.

[kingpin008]

Jeff - You're correct in that .38's can be fired out of a .357, but the reverse is not true. The .357 is slightly longer, and obviously more powerful than .38.

As far as the recoil being similar, it also depends on what bullet weight you're shooting, as well as what type of gun. My fiancee owns an airweight .38 special revolver that can be quite punishing with even mid-range .38 special ammo. The same will not hold true in something like a Model 10, which is all steel and built quite a bit beefier. Same with 9mm. If you're shooting it through a subcompact Glock, the recoil is going to be considerably different than if you were firing a Hi-Power. Also, as Erik touched upon in his comment, different calibers have different recoil impulses. The .45 ACP is known for feeling like a "push" back against the shooters hands, while .357, .38, and 9mm might be better categorized as a "snap" type feeling. Neither is inherently more manageable than the other, it purely depends on what you find comfortable.

Long story short, it depends a bit on what platform you're using each caliber in. In general, no, there's probably not going to be a huge difference in felt recoil.

[glockman19]

First, Welcome.

Now...Join a local range that rents guns and try out as many as you can. get the one you shoot best. How to decide what to get? In a revolver I'd choose a S&W 60, 620, 686 4" or Ruger SP101 or GP100 models. Semi0-auto Ruger .22LR, Glock 17, 19 9mm, Sug or Hk .40 and most any 1911 in .45. Any Revolver and Pistol above and a Remington 870and you'll have a good foundation for a collection covering CCW, HD, SD.

You're asking the right questions in the right forum of the correct people and you're on the right track.

[machinisttx]

Before buying anything, I would suggest looking into if any local ranges offer handgun rentals. You may find that a revolver simply doesn't suit you, and that you prefer a 9mm semiautomatic or some other gun.

IMO, for any new shooter a .22 isn't a bad idea. It allows the owner to practice more with less cost, recoil, and noise---it's easier to concentrate on the fundamentals of shooting. A revolver isn't a bad choice, but you will need to practice loading and unloading more than you would with a semiauto. You'll also need to master the double action trigger, which isn't the easiest task for most folks.

[JeffDilla]

I'm probably jumping the gun a little bit, but what is the best way to go about buying bulk ammo for practicing once a one has bought a gun and wants to get in a lot of practice time?

[crebralfix]

Training is available everywhere! Go to the local range and ask about private shooting instruction. This should be your first stop. They probably do NRA or NRA-like courses...at least take a hunters' safety course.

SouthNarc may come to your area. www.shivworks.com. Check out his DVDs on handling unknown contacts. It's really a "must-see" for managing potentially hostile encounters. These things at bad breath distances, so learn it early.

Suarez International has a guy in Maine (Mike Freese), who used to teach a revolver course. He'll be able to get you up to speed on wheelguns. You could probably do some private lessons with him, since the revolver course apparently has been dropped.

SIG's academy is in New Hampshire. http://www.sigsauer.com/EducationTraining/

Lethal Force Institute: http://www.ayoob.com/LFIschedule.html

S&W has their academy: http://shootingsports.smith-wesson.com/

***

Semi-automatic pistols have been replaced for a reason. I'll let you do the research on that one and come up with your own conclusions.

***

Books to read:

Shooting to Live by Fairbairn and Sykes (pdf online)
Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting by Ed McGivern (why the double action revolver rocks and cool things to do with it on weekends)
Boston's Gun Bible by Kenneth Royce (gun gear advice)
Tactical Reality by Louis Awerbuck (a second volume is available)
Guns, Bullets and Gunfights by Jim Cirillo (mindset)
Everything on Roger Phillips' site: rogerphillips.oregonshooter.com (controversial stuff--must read since it flies in the face of the Great Gun Religions. If people protest too much, it's time to go learn it...whatever "it" is.)

Attend some private training and get the "traditional" techniques. Go through one of SouthNarc's courses, and follow-up with "Point Shooting Progressions" with Roger Phillips. LFI Level 1 would be an excellent supplement.

Take a force on force class at some point. Lots of "traditional" techniques and "mythos" you have learned will get discarded pretty quickly. Sometimes it takes a smack on the forehead to make people move forward. It's kinda like your first noncooperative sparring, full bore "knife" fight: you figure out pretty quickly you don't want to do this again.

If you're just interested in sport shooting, your local range can help you there. Get involved with IDPA, NRA Bullseye, and IPSC. Any shooting activity involving bowling pins is really fun. Cowboy Action Shooting is an addiction for which there is no cure, except for Mounted Cowboy Action Shooting (but then you're in for a horse and pasture...horse shoeing, vet bills, tack and on and on).

Then there are the John C. Garand matches and Garand collecting. Don't start...leave some for the rest of us.

If, for some reason, you still have time....login to the Smith & Wesson forum (www.smith-wesson.com) and start buying up old Model 10 revolvers. Somewhere along the line, you'll find you like 3" 44 Magnums made before 1990...or maybe it's S&W M28 Highway Patrolman revolvers. M1917's are pretty cool too. Call use when you're on your second gun safe; we'll want good pictures. One lady on the S&W posted pictures of the contents of her safe. She had quite a few excellent examples of S&W Model 29 revolvers in there.

If you're still bored, then get into long range shooting. Call us when you need 50 BMG advice.

[Daryl Licht]

Starting with a .22 revolver will offer an opportunity to develop sighting and trigger control skills.

I think the revolver is a great idea. A good double action in .357 magnum, fed initially with .38 special ammo is a decent place to start. Revolvers are not typically finicky. If it's not for you, it could be sold or traded for something different.

As for autos, the 9mm is the place to start as MAKster said. Ammo is reasonable and there are a lot of good pistols out there to choose from. If you choose to start with a 9mm, my advice here would be to take an experienced shooter with you until you learn its operation and how to safely deal with any problem or malfunction that might come up.

Buy a quality firearm. I'm not a cork sniffing gun snob by any means, and have several inexpensive guns myself. Quality is not always dependent on price, but there is some stuff on the market of questionable metallurgy and durability. Some more research should give you some ideas about what's inexpensive and what's cheap.

[JeffDilla]

Great advice guys. I have found a local range that I plan on going out, introducing myself and explain my situation and see what advice I can get. I don't have any friends that are into shooting, so it looks like I'll be going solo, but I'm hoping they'll be able to start me out and point me in the right direction. Unfortunately for me, time and money are a consideration as I'm a full-time student and I also work full time. So traveling any great distance is out of the question for me right now, and probaby until next summer. Hopefully this local range will have some instruction courses available.

[kingpin008]

Jeff - Regarding bulk ammo, I buy my .38 Special from Georgia Arms, with little bits here and there supplied by either Wal-Mart or my local shop. (they have the 100 gn. wadcutters that my fiancee likes to shoot) For .22, I buy bulk packs from Wal-Mart. I don't have the receipt handy, but my last large .22 purchase was 10k rounds worth of various brands of bulk packs (usually between 500 and 550 rounds each) for a little over $250. That's a pretty good price as far as I'm concerned for enough ammo to last me the better part of a year or more.

Wal-Mart isn't bad for 9mm either, I think I found Blazer Brass for about $9/box of 50 a few weeks ago. If you don't want to go that route, there is always places like ammoman.com, and many other online ammo retailers. Many times online dealers will have competitive prices that quickly end up being equal to or more than local prices once shipping is figured in, so shop carefully. Ammoman has free shipping on all orders, so the price you see is the final price. I haven't bought from him yet, but in general he seems to be a good place to go. I can personally speak for Georgia Arms - they do mostly reloads, but their prices (last time I checked) were pretty decent, and their quality and customer service are top notch. And if you're saving your brass but don't feel like reloading it yourself, Georgia Arms and places like MasterCast will accept it in trade towards a discounted price on your next order.

[Sapper771]

I agree with what has been said before, go to a gun shop and look around. I am not a revolver fan, so I cant give any wisdom or shed any light on the subject. A revolver might be what you want to go with if that is what you prefer. I personally prefer a Glock, but that is me. After owning over 15 or so Glocks and never having one problem out of anyone of them, it says alot about them. When I am hunting a handgun, I first start with the grip, if the grip fits my hand well and I feel like the pistol is natural, almost like an extension of my hand, then more than likely it is the pistol for me. If you have a friend that is a gun nut, see if he minds if you try out some of his pistols in order to see what you like. GOOD LUCK !

[Lucky Strike]

If you want a .357 revolver i recommend a 4" Ruger GP100. Excellent reputation for reliability...it was the first revolver i bought and given it's great reputation for it's robust design i had little hesitation getting a used one and saving $80

[Creade]

Somehow I think you have 2 of the same Titled thread going.

Maybe they can be merged so you can see all your responses in one thread!

[Trebor]

If you shoot .38's through a .357 just know you have to THOROUGHLY clean the chambers afterwards. Since the .38 Special is shorter it leaves a "crud line" of unburned propellent, etc, in a different spot then the .357 Magnum "crud line."

What happens is the debris from the .38 Special can build up to the point where you won't be able to load .357 Mag rounds into the chambers. The crud will keep them from going all the way in.

Just clean the chambers throroughly and you can avoid this problem. I use a .45 bore brush to clean the .38/.357 chambers. (That brush is ruined for .45 after this, btw, so I only use it on the revolvers).

You can check by inserting an emtpy .357 Mag case into your chambers. If there is resistence you may need to clean a little more. The case itself can help scrape some of the crud out as well.

[JeffDilla]

Thanks, Trebor. That's really good to know.

[JeffDilla]

Creade, I accidentally started two of the same threads in two different forums. Like I said, I'm brand new to this:). How can I go about merging them to see all of the replies in one thread?

[Brian Williams]

Merged and Welcome to THR

[Orange_Magnum]

Let your first handgun be a keeper and a home defense tool. Long barrels are more accurate and soak up more recoil. Taurus makes a model 608 in .357 magnum that is an 8-shooter. How convenient isn't that when Mr Scumbag kicks in your front door? 8 inches of accuracy to point that perverted brain in a new direction.

You will go through a lot of concealed carry models later.

[BlindJustice]

ErikS had the best advice for you Jeff having recently experienced
what you are asking about doing in your firearms experience.

My first handgun was a S&W Model 18 medium frame .22 LR I was young
and money was dear so the inexpensive cost of the ammo allowed me to
shoot a lot more than any centerfire cartridge. It also with it's light recoil allowed me to learn proper sight alignment, trigger control, Single Action (SA)
and also Double Action (DA). It served me well on the farm in my teens

I have S&W revovlers in small, medium, and large frame sizes of various calibers, including a medium frame 686 with a 4" Bbl. feels great balance wise but when I shoot full power loads, it has a supersonic blast, and a big
flash from unburned powder, as well as great recoil THe Magnum means it uses slower burning powders that need longer barrel lengths in order to brun completely I'd rather have a .357 Mag on the large frame and a 6" or longer barrel. I also have a small J-frame that has a 3" Bbl. chambered for .357 Magnum, I limit it to .38 Spcl. +P for shooting and it's quite enjoyable. THe .38 SPcl +P also fires at below the speed of sound so for a home defense weapon there's no sonic BOOM and less muzzle flash as well as greater recoil management.

IF or when you are confy with revolvers and want to experience semi-autos I'd recommend a platform that has the option of a .22 LR conversion kit. IT usually means you change the slide, barrel recoil spring and magazine, but you use the same frame thus grip as well as the same trigger.

Good Luck, and go with ErikS/s advice as well

Randall
.

[JeffDilla]

BlindJustice, Thanks for the info. I just registered for a 3-day basic handgun safety course that I will be taking later in September. They had one that started last night when I went in to ask but it was too short of notice, I was tempted though. But After I take that I plan on trying different guns, and just seeing what feels comfortable but I think I will shoot mainly a .22 to practice shooting technique and get familiar with it before I actually buy anything. Yesterday I also drove way out to this "hole in the wall" gun shop and explained to the owner, who was a fairly elderly man, that I was brand new to handguns but I'd like to learn as much as I can. Since he didn't have any other customers, and by the way he talked he hadn't had any in quite some time, we sat and talked for almost two hours. He showed me several different revolvers and semi-autos and answered all the questions I had. He was a really nice guy and very encouraging, as I didn't really know what to expect going out there. He let me know he would help me with anything I needed and told me to keep in touch and let me know how things go. It made me feel that much better about this whole experience in general.

[crebralfix]

Wow! A friendly gun shop! Even better...friendly to folks who aren't in regulars!

You should really purchase your stuff there because he really spent some time with you. Even if his prices are a bit higher, the help is worth the few dollars extra. Too many folks get "sold" a gun and have no idea what to do with it afterward.

[P97]

My advise to anyone starting out shooting would be .22's first, both in long and short guns. I shot .22 rifles and pistols long before I got any center fire guns. I still do 90% of my shooting with .22's. :D

[JeffDilla]

Crebalfix, I agree. I hinted to him that when It came time for me to make a purchase, I'd be back. He didn't have many options there at the time, as it is a very small gun shop in this guy's basement of his house. He said he charges 10% over cost to order guns and a $15 transfer fee, both seem pretty reasonable to me, and I'd glady give him my business rather than a corporate store. Out of curiosity, is 10% over book charge as reasonable as it sounds to me? What is a common percentage?

[Drgong]

10% does not sound bad, I go to a rather expensive store many times as it a huge store, but they spent a lot of time with me. Bought a rifle and two pistols from them.

[BlindJustice]

IMHO - The "Hole in the Wall" shop owner deal of 10% over cost
and a $15 transfer fee is quite reasonable. He also sounds like a good
mentor, after you get a course and some rental time you could go back
and share your experience and know better what to ask.

I have a gun dealer, who runs his business out of his own
home - a split level and his Mom lives upstairs and he's got the daylight
basement velow forhis living area and business. He also has a
yard triming, etc. business. I've bought 6 guns and transferred
them through him over the last few years. I also have told him
what I wanted for two additional guns, and they were a bit higher
than I could have gotten them elsewhere, but it's better to me to
let him make a few than a chain store. I also have him trim my hedges
fall and spring - his transger fee has gone up from $25 to $35 FWIW

This has paid off in terms of sometimes he just delivers a gun - I've given
him the occaisional gun that needs a complete strip and cleaning - I'm not
mchanical, and he does a bit of extra polishing, of the rails and trigger on my
1911 for example. He also gunsmiths but knows his limitations, so I can at
least get an idea of any issue and get a good basis as to where or what the
next step should be.

Hope that gives you some idea about your path.

Randall

[Orange_Magnum]

If you think a .22 is a good starter gun I advice you to buy a BB gun.

What is the intended purpose for your future gun? Target shooting? OK, but anything beyond that .22 it is incapable of. Do you think Mr Scumbag, 300 pounds, kicking in your door, will "worry" about a couple of .22 bullets hitting the lard? He will laugh at you, grab the gun from your hands and smack it in your head so hard that you will die.

[1911 guy]

First, go to a gunshop that will take the time to explain handgun fit and then "try on" as many as you can lay hands on, both autos and revolvers. Secondly, ignore the advice of anyone who recommends a particular model without any other information.

[JeffDilla]

1911 guy, I found a gunshop a couple of days ago with a really helpful owner. I held several different guns, and I liked the feel of revolvers in my hand more than the semi-autos. I only held three of each and one of the semi-autos was a subcompact. I have large hands and the sub-compact just felt too small. He didn't have a huge selection of guns, so I wasnt able to hold many models, but he was full of information and answered all of my questions.

[ErikS]

Would be interesting to get updates from you on your progress.

As I said before, I'm in a similar situation, I just started with handguns while I was in the US, but I'm now back home in a country with different laws and less opportunities to pursue my new interest.
I'm in the process of joining a local gun club, and hope to be able to get a license for a handgun somewhere down the line. Until then, I'll have to practice at the club under an instructors supervision.
I bought an airgun to get some extra practise at home, and though it's a good way to get extra trigger time when you cant be at a range, shooting a .22 is much better practise, at least it goes boom and there is some recoil, the gun reacts when you pull the trigger. An airgun just isnt the same. FWIW.

[crebralfix]

+1 on ErikS

It would be neat to chronicle your search and training experiences (with pictures, of course).

[JeffDilla]

Will do. My safety/training course isn't until sept. 22-24, but I'm going to go to my first gun show the weekend of sept. 6-7th. I started a different post about that. But I'll be sure to post about my experience, although I'm not planning on buying anything, except for some beef jerkey, which I hear is something to look forward to.