NYPD and Mossberg


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Dave Williams
August 24, 2008, 01:31 PM
Somehow I missed the news that NYPD adopted the Mossberg 590A1 for the rank and file Officers. The NYPD ESU and the Detectives have had shotguns available but I believe this is the first time that line Officers in NYPD have had shotguns.

I read in a Mossberg publication that the specs are: 14" barrel, 13 7/8" LOP, 3 dot adjustable night sights, Federal ammunition.

http://www.mossberg.com/press/pdf/49.pdf

Anyone got anymore scoop?

Another LE Agency spending a boatload of money on the venerable gauge. Hmmmmmmm.

Dave Williams

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fatdaddycoe
August 24, 2008, 03:19 PM
To the best of my knowledge, your information is incorrect. I am an NYPD officer and we are not issued shotguns, nor have I heard that we will be, and I am assigned to a special disorder control unit. Because New York's poulation density is so high, most of our equipment and tactics are geared towards total civilian safety. Hence, almost no vehicle pursuits are allowed and we shoot nine millimeters with a twelve pound trigger pull. I doubt the higher-ups would decide a shotgun fit into their idea of operational safety.

Having written that, I would sure be happy to be wrong.

HB
August 24, 2008, 03:34 PM
I read that too, seems like a lot of extra junk for a duty shotgun. Well I guess the first hand info is the proof though. Although I'm pretty sure a 12 gauge with buck will penetrate less that a 9mm and won't go as far if you send a shot bouncing down the street.

Fred Fuller
August 24, 2008, 03:36 PM
Text of the press release linked above:
=========================


Safety and safe firearms is everyone’s responsibility.


PRESS RELEASE Contact:

O.F. Mossberg & Sons, Inc. KIM CAHALAN
7 Grasso Ave ~ North Haven, CT 06473 Media Relations
ph (203) 230.5300 ~ fx (203) 230.5420 (309) 944.5341
www.mossberg.com



NYPD AND MOSSBERG...
THE BIG APPLE PICKS THE 590®


North Haven, CT (January, 2008) – When the NYPD decides to equip its 36,000-man
police force with a new duty shotgun, it is a monumental task and one that is not to be
taken lightly. After all, officers’ lives are at stake. So when the city decided recently to
adopt the venerable Mossberg® 590® as its new police duty shotgun, it serves as a
testament to its ruggedness and reliability.

Taking models from the top shotgun manufacturers, members of NYPD’s Firearms &
Tactics Section began a series of extensive tests spanning a two-year period. The
evaluation process basically consisted of two phases. During Phase One the
instructors paralleled the original U.S. Military test. They fired 1500 slugs and 1500 00
Buck for a total of 3000 2 3?4 inch shotshells. The Mossberg 590A1 passed this first test
with flying colors.

With the initial testing completed, the process entered Phase Two, which consisted of
real world use by actual street officers from the NYPD. As a part of their regular
firearms training, the patrolmen were issued Mossberg 590’s and duty ammunition,
which they then ran through various exercises. By the time the final order was placed,
approximately 12,000 rounds of ammunition had been fired. Again, no functional
problems whatsoever.
-more-



Though modified for police use, it’s comforting to know that the 590, which is now in use
not only by the NYPD, but by hundreds of law enforcement agencies here and abroad
and by the U.S. Military, is the same pump action on which every sporting version of the
500 is based. Now that’s peace of mind.

Founded in 1919, O.F. Mossberg & Sons, Inc. is the oldest family-owned firearms
manufacturer in America, and is the largest pump-action shotgun manufacturer in the
world. Leading the way with over 100 design and utility patents to its credit, and
standing as the first ISO 9001 certified long-gun manufacturer, Mossberg is considered
to be one of the most innovative firearms manufacturers in U.S. history.

For more details on the NYPD contract and the complete line of commercial, special-
purpose, law enforcement and military shotguns, rifles and accessories, please call your
local Mossberg dealer or visit us online at www.mossberg.com.

###

Dave Williams
August 24, 2008, 04:08 PM
fatdaddycoe,

Thanks for the first hand info.

Stay safe,

Dave Williams

tenbears
August 24, 2008, 04:46 PM
The Mossburg is a good weapon, but the Remington 870 has the best reliability. Either one loaded with non-lethal ammunition will work well in a highly populated city.

fatdaddycoe
August 24, 2008, 04:58 PM
If we indeed are issued the 590, I will post the particulars here. I would think our unit would be one of the first to receive the new weapon.

9x19sig
August 24, 2008, 10:48 PM
The 870 has the best reliability? Where are you getting this from anyway? I would find it very hard to believe the 870 is any more reliable than a 590, or vise verse.

Besides the occasional lemon that any manufacturer puts out (maybe besides Freedom Arms), pump shotguns are typically inherently reliable regardless of make.

Smitty in CT
August 25, 2008, 12:16 AM
If we indeed are issued the 590, I will post the particulars here. I would think our unit would be one of the first to receive the new weapon.

Check with "Lt. Lou D.", he was the NYPD point of contact, all of the squad cars are currently being retrofitted, because the locking mount had to be modified from the current Ithacas to accept the new Mossbergs...

Sergeant Sabre
August 25, 2008, 12:49 AM
The Mossburg is a good weapon, but the Remington 870 has the best reliability. Either one loaded with non-lethal ammunition will work well in a highly populated city.

Zero to "vs." thread in only 6.0 posts!!!

C'mon now, if NYPD is updating their shotguns, that's great. Let's not make this about what we think they should have picked instead.

tpaw
August 25, 2008, 01:27 AM
Dave Williams states"

I believe this is the first time that line Officers in NYPD have had shotguns.

Actually no. The NYPD had shotguns in the early 1900's. My personal experience was in the late 60's and early 70's when the BLA (Black Liberation Army) was very active in crime and killing police officers in the NYPD by means of ambush. At the time, we were authorized to arm ourselves accordingly (more than just the .38 Cal. hand gun). Some of our long arms were brought from home. Keep in mind, NYC at the time was a battle zone. Weapons stolen from military armories by the BLA were being used against us, to include fragmentation hand grenades that were thrown under patrol cars.

tpaw
August 25, 2008, 01:45 AM
Lee Lapin

Your points are very well taken. However, after spending a career with the NYPD and dealing with vendors who hawk their products, it's not always quality, but quantity at the right price. Not to say Mossberg is not a fair product, the City of New York is only interested in cost. Obviously, of all the vendors who entered a bid, Mossberg was probably the cheapest, if in fact the NYPD is going to issue shotguns, which I seriously doubt. Although I'd like to see them in radio cars, it's something that anti-gun Mayor Bloomberg would would not allow. I'm surprised that he's not trying to disarm police officers of their handguns.

mr.trooper
August 25, 2008, 02:38 AM
The Mossberg is a good weapon, but the Remington 870 has the best reliability.

Because pump guns are so hard to make...

GTSteve03
August 25, 2008, 02:50 AM
The Mossberg is a good weapon, but the Remington 870 has the best reliability.Because pump guns are so hard to make...
But they make them out of aluminum! You know, the stuff they make Coke cans out of! It's amazing they don't fail just by squeezing them! Now if you had an all-steel shotgun... :p

Dave Williams
August 25, 2008, 10:52 AM
tpaw,

Thanks for you input.

Ahh, the good old days, right?

Dave Williams

DMR
August 25, 2008, 11:54 AM
HB
I read that too, seems like a lot of extra junk for a duty shotgun.

14" barrel, 13 7/8" LOP, 3 dot adjustable night sights, Federal ammunition.

And what is the extra junk? The stock, sights, barrel or the ammo?

San Francisquito Bill
August 25, 2008, 12:15 PM
I like the 14" barrel! That's one of the few things I wish our new shotguns had...

I'm sure the 590's will work well...I never knew NYPD didn't have shotguns in their cars. Very interesting.

ozwyn
August 25, 2008, 12:46 PM
On why the 590 is picked, I would expect the safety location is why.

Not like there is a wrong choice on Remington vs Mossberg. I mean that whole debate is the fine art of splitting hairs given the good track of both brands.

Old Guy
August 25, 2008, 12:58 PM
One of the strangest mind sets that bosses have, you know the old parable, the Chiefs pick the scalping knives, the braves have to carry them.

Picture of brave on Pony, knife dragging on ground!

For instance, the Glocks with 12 lb triggers, how stupid is that.

Having peed on the NYPDs parade, I will have to say the 14" Barrel, 3 dot night sights, great. Maneuverability out and in to the Radio Car perfect, overall length is what it should be. Low velocity slugs? 1000 FPS I would hazard a guess. People here talk of the awesome sound of a shot gun being racked, any awesome deterrent value in shotgun deployment, to my mind, get to look into that big pipe! With a 22 year old newly minted Patrol Officer in charge of your longevity hanging on to it.

Good Luck NYPD.

md7
August 25, 2008, 01:20 PM
although i prefer remington, i would never turn my nose up at a mossberg. they just plain work. NYPD could do much worse imho.

here is to hoping that New York's finest are able to obtain this weapon and stay safe.

tpaw
August 25, 2008, 02:37 PM
Dave Williams

tpaw,

Thanks for you input.

Ahh, the good old days, right?

My pleasure............. Gone but not forgotten.
Be well and happy shooting.

PS..Perhaps with terrorism being what it is today and the fact that NY suffered a great blow during 911, maybe, just maybe, Mayor Bloomberg and the Police Commissioner will come to their senses and authorize shot guns. Even with the semi auto 9mm's, we are out gunned with full auto weapons of various kinds. Our Emergency Service has AR's capable of full auto. In my opinion we should all have them, but with such a dense population in the city, it is not feasible. The real answer is to allow all law abiding citizens to conceal carry. Onward and Upward!......;)

Fred Fuller
August 25, 2008, 03:29 PM
My points?????

Dude, all I did was copy and paste the Mossberg press release, to save people the trouble of loading the PDF file by clicking through on the link posted earlier. They aren't "my points"- they're MOSSBERG'S points. It's a press release- which is a formal way of saying, it's advertising that the press is supposed to pick up and print for free.

:D

lpl

Sicari
August 28, 2008, 08:35 AM
Back in the early '80s we (NYPD) were issued pumps in one man patrol cars.

Dave Williams
August 28, 2008, 09:02 AM
Sicari,

Thanks for the info. Any details?

Dave Williams

Bridger
August 28, 2008, 09:14 PM
As a current NYPD officer, I haven't heard anything about this, and I seriously doubt it's going to regular patrol. Highway units have shotguns I think, I've only seen Ithaca 37s and once I saw a Remington while qualifying at the range, but otherwise, no shotguns in the regular cars. Right now as it is only bosses have tasers anyway, I recall there was a moment just around 9/11 when they wanted to issue 500 mini-14s with training to some officers to keep in their cars. Somehow that never really came around to happening.

That said, I do own a m590 at home and think it's a great shotgun, but I'll have to ask a Highway guy next chance I get and see if they are getting new shotguns.

Blue Brick
August 28, 2008, 10:06 PM
Shotgun steel is a lower grade steel. Remington is not much if any stonger than a Mossberg. By the way Mossberg is not the only
one to use aluminum.

Howaido
August 30, 2008, 02:52 PM
I prefer the weight of the 870.

The_Antibubba
September 2, 2008, 04:10 AM
Though modified for police use, it’s comforting to know that the 590, which is now in use not only by the NYPD, but by hundreds of law enforcement agencies here and abroad and by the U.S. Military, [b]is the same pump action on which every sporting version of the 500 is based[b].

Uh, sort of. The 590 pump handle has two arms that cycle the round, not one like on the 500. The magazine on the 590 is a lot more flexible in terms of changing it. It seems a bit sturdier overall.

all of the squad cars are currently being retrofitted, because the locking mount had to be modified from the current Ithacas to accept the new Mossbergs...

Are there any issues with the Ithaca 37s (since they'll be flooding the Used market soon ;) )?

Sergeant Sabre
September 2, 2008, 12:23 PM
Uh, sort of. The 590 pump handle has two arms that cycle the round, not one like on the 500. The magazine on the 590 is a lot more flexible in terms of changing it. It seems a bit sturdier overall.

Mine has two action arms. I think all of the 500s have been manufactured with two for quite a few years now.

Harley Quinn
September 2, 2008, 01:24 PM
I read in a Mossberg publication that the specs are: 14" barrel, 13 7/8" LOP, 3 dot adjustable night sights, Federal ammunition.
:confused: 14" ????

As far as 37's go I'd like to get one when they hit the market, was a good one for me while I was LEO...

Regards, :)

stiletto raggio
September 2, 2008, 02:32 PM
The Stake Out unit used 18" sxs shotguns... at least according to Jeff Cooper.

My battle buddy was NYPS for three years and corrections at Riker's for four before joining the Army. He said some of the patrol cars had shotguns locked between the seats, but he never saw rifles on patrol. The corrections guys had plenty of non-lethal loaded shotguns, though.

Bridger
September 3, 2008, 10:42 AM
Somehow I doubt any NYPD Ithaca 37s will be released anywhere but Long Island Sound

RaisedByWolves
September 3, 2008, 12:59 PM
Mine has two action arms. I think all of the 500s have been manufactured with two for quite a few years now.


Same here and for quite a while now.



If they have been good enough for the Marines to carry for 20 odd years, theyll certainly meet my needs, Aluminum reciever or not.:neener:



Btw, at nearly 9lbs, I like the weight of my 590A1.



.

scythefwd
September 3, 2008, 03:50 PM
With that length of pull and that short of a barrel, I doubt it will be anywhere near 9lbs. My 500 (I know, its a different gun than the 590) doesn't way 8lbs with its 28" barrel and 14" pull (I cut it down .5" to fit me better). It only tips the scales at 9.5 with the rifled barrel, which I doubt the police are getting (and its still a 24", drop a foot off it and it still probably wouldn't hit 9lbs)

Serpico
September 3, 2008, 07:25 PM
When my dad was a detective back in the sixties, I remember him having a 14 inch side by side...might have been a savage...

RMc
December 26, 2008, 10:38 PM
NYPD:

Mossberg 590
Milspec heavy 14 inch barrel, cylinder bore.
Milspec metal safety and trigger guard.
Fixed 3 dot sights - zeroed @ 25 yards.
Speed Feed reserve ammo stock, 13 inch LOP

RMc
December 27, 2008, 09:23 PM
The new 590 NYPD specs appear to be very sensible to me.

rscalzo
December 27, 2008, 09:27 PM
Some of my scuba tanks are made of aluminum and they can hold in excess of 5500 psi without rupture.

Sergeant Sabre
December 28, 2008, 02:37 AM
Some of my scuba tanks are made of aluminum and they can hold in excess of 5500 psi without rupture.

Armored cars that ferry money to and from banks and ATM machines are also aluminum. The bias against aluminum is way overblown.

Speedo66
December 28, 2008, 03:37 PM
Ask the Brits on the navy aluminum ship that caught fire in the war against Argentina about that.

Sergeant Sabre
December 29, 2008, 04:16 AM
Ask the Brits on the navy aluminum ship that caught fire in the war against Argentina about that.

I won't be sailing against Argentina aboard a Mossberg 500.

Jack2427
December 30, 2008, 06:32 AM
Yeah aluminum burns. Ask any old VN flight crew. Now about shotguns, not recommended for open ocean voyages. I have carried both Mossberg and Remingtons, among many others. Usually what the govt., the dept. , or the contractor provided. Both are quite good guns, and no one should feel underarmed with either one. There are minor differences, but IMHO the ammo used would make more of a difference that whether it was stuffed into a Mossy or an 870.

Onmilo
December 30, 2008, 01:25 PM
So how come cops who can't even speak english well get short barrel shotguns and the rest of the masses in restricted states cannot own such weapons of mass destruction????????

T191032
December 30, 2008, 06:56 PM
Just read the article titled "Mossberg Finds a Home in the Big Apple" writted by J. Guthrie in the "Mossberg 2009 Buyer's Guide & Catalog" this afternoon. Quite interesting. The ole Ithaca M-37s were getting a bit worn and the project to find a suitable replacement has been an on-going process over the last 20yrs or so. Apparently NYPD went to the major shotgun manufacturers to submit designs with their (NYPD's) specific interests in mind. Part of the criteria was the downsizing patrol cars.

A 14" heavy-barrel cylinder-bore has fixed sights (to replicate the Glock's sights) regulated for 25yds. To add on-board ammo, they get the Speedfeed stock. Got the aluminum trigger guard and safety button. Front and rear sling swivels. The "easy clean" mag tube of the 590 family.

Says they started delivery in Feb 2008 and will take a year to get everyone trained on the new pump shotgun.

IMHO, good show. At least it isn't a foreign-made gun they bought. . .

jackdanson
December 30, 2008, 07:09 PM
I don't see why they need a 14 inch barrel, us civvies have to do with 18in+. You cut it 1/4 in. short and they'll kill your son and wife.

shotgunjoel
January 1, 2009, 07:27 AM
tpaw, Bloomberg isn't going to take the police officer's pistol, they are trusted and well trained. We all know that every police officer is an expert with his sidearm and trains with it more than anyone of us dumb civilians on THR. No we don't need guns because we can't be trusted but you become a cop and then you have guaranteed gun ownership. What a load of crap. Seriously, why do they all have a double standard for cops.

Rob96
January 1, 2009, 09:55 AM
I don't see why they need a 14 inch barrel, us civvies have to do with 18in+. You cut it 1/4 in. short and they'll kill your son and wife.

According to the article in the Mossberg Annual. It was needed to fit in the new Dodge Chargers they are getting/got.

22lr
January 1, 2009, 10:19 AM
590s are the only shotgun that has passed Army Spec tests if I remember correctly.

Great gun, and what wouldn't I do for a 14inch 590.....:)

Smitty in CT
January 1, 2009, 01:42 PM
Just read the article titled "Mossberg Finds a Home in the Big Apple" writted by J. Guthrie in the "Mossberg 2009 Buyer's Guide & Catalog" this afternoon.

Where did you get a hold of one... or a better question, where can I get one??? I went on Mossberg's and they show the 2008, but even it "isn't available for download"...

Rob96
January 1, 2009, 05:37 PM
Where did you get a hold of one... or a better question, where can I get one?

I got mine at Walmart.

mr.trooper
January 1, 2009, 07:57 PM
Mine has two action arms. I think all of the 500s have been manufactured with two for quite a few years now.

Ditto. Even my .410 bore 500E has twin action arms.

I don't see why they need a 14 inch barrel, us civvies have to do with 18in+.

Cops are "civilians" just the same as the rest of us. They like to throw that word around like it doesn't apply to them, but they are bound by the same laws and answer to the same courts. Until you've gone thorough MEPS and your sworn in, your still a civilian. THEN your held by different laws and answer to a different court. THEN you can can say your not a civilian.

wcwhitey
January 1, 2009, 08:56 PM
Just to add to some of the information already provided. Shotguns are in use with ESU, OCCB and a few teams that do search warrant entries. Shotguns have always have been authorized for one man radio cars. Patrol is always performed by 2 man radio cars, not one. I have never seen a shotgun on patrol. Slim chance you will see shotguns on patrol unless manpower gets so low that they are forced to put out one man cars. I also agree that they are not likely to put the Ithaca's back in circulation, more likely to destroy them.

Still a decent contract for Mossberg which included bragging rights.

the foot
January 1, 2009, 10:14 PM
Policemen are civilians. Just like all other citizens who are not members of the military.

Please do not use the term "civilian" to indicate that a person is not a policeman.

When your cop acquaintance uses the term "civilian", it undermines the basic fact that cops must obey all the laws that exist in your area, exactly the same as you.

Policemen do not function under a different penal/legal code from the rest of us.

Speedo66
January 1, 2009, 11:33 PM
"Patrol is always performed by 2 man radio cars, not one."

What about the Highway Unit? Most I see are by them selves.

JImbothefiveth
January 2, 2009, 12:13 AM
I don't see why they need a 14 inch barrel, us civvies have to do with 18in+.
No, you can own a short-bbld shotgun, you just need a tax stamp, and to register it with the ATF. I owning an unregistered one is a felony, but it doesn't result in the death penalty.

wcwhitey
January 2, 2009, 10:02 AM
True Speed they are 1 man but they are not patrol units. Some summons auto's in commands are 1 man as well, scooter cops as well as footposts. What I am referring to when I say patrol is the 911 answering cops in the precincts. Highway units can and will be qualified with the shotguns, not sure about the distribution though. By far the bulk of the NYPD are precinct patrol officers in various assignments. Hope this helps, Bill

T191032
January 2, 2009, 11:21 PM
The article is in their downloadable catalog here :

http://www.mossberg.com/content.asp?ID=601&section=media


I bought news-rack paper version.

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