[2dogs]

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/Item.asp?ID=3607

Arnold to .50 Owners: “You are terminated.”
(Why hasn’t NRA/CRPA endorsed McClintock?)

by David Codrea
codrea4@adelphia.net

September 4, 2003

KeepAndBearArms.com -- In “Schwarzenegger wrong for gun owners, wrong for California,” I produced documentation proving the California Republican Gubernatorial candidate advocates what he calls “sensible gun control laws,” including:

• “Gun control should be stiffer”
• The “Brady Bill”
• The “assault weapons” ban
• “Closing the loophole of the gun shows”
• Trigger lock laws

A Sacramento Bee analysis printed since my article was written sheds further light on Schwarzenegger’s anti-gun positions. He responded to their survey and pledged to sign legislation:

• Requiring gun owners to pass a state-defined test in order to purchase a handgun
• Requiring load indicators or magazine safety disconnects on semiauto handguns manufactured after 2006
• Banning .50 caliber rifles

Despite Schwarzenegger’s desire to terminate the last vestiges of the Second Amendment in California, and despite Gun Owners of America and Gun Owners of California enthusiastically giving their unqualified endorsements to Tom McClintock, the Bee article reveals “neither [the California Rifle and Pistol Association] nor the National Rifle Association has endorsed a replacement candidate yet.”

Why on earth not?

With everyone else in the race a confirmed gun-grabber, who else is there for them to back?

If you’re a member of these groups, don’t you think you have a right to know why they will not immediately put their considerable financial and membership resources behind the McClintock for Governor campaign?

[GSB]

So basically some hired political hack market-tested a platform and told him "this is what you believe in." Sorry, but I don't buy for a second that Arnold has any clue what he's talking about on this issue -- as others have pointed out, the nonexistant gun-show "loophole" was already closed in Kalifornia, and I don't think he would know a magazine disconnect from a leg press machine. :banghead:

[Spot77]

you HAVE to ban those big ugly 50's.

They scare the children.


Seriously though, does anybody know of crimes committed with these guns? I really doubt there's many.....

[Leatherneck]

I think the approximate count is zero.

TC
TFL Survivor

[Kharn]

Spot77:
A group used a M2 .50 (belt fed, weighs about 100lbs empty, without tripod) to rob an armored car in, I believe, Canada. They knew the driver always read his paper while sitting in the truck, obscuring his view out the windshield, so they sandbagged the .50 in the back of a UPS-type truck, parked with the back of the UPS truck pointed at the armored car and then opened the back door. One of the robbers then knocked on the side of the armored car to get the driver's attention. The driver put down his paper, saw the .50 and then ran like his butt was on fire, as he'd served in the armed forces and knew what a .50 could do to the armored car.

The truck was found later, .50 still inside. Interesting thing was, the thieves had assembled it incorrectly, it wouldnt have fired more than one shot (it might not have even gotten the first shot off, I forget how badly they screwed up the assembly).

Kharn

[Master Blaster]

The truck was found later, .50 still inside.

This sounds like an urban legend to me, could you post a link to a news story? Why would the criminals go to the trouble of getting a M2 and then leave such a valuable firearm behind? Especially when they did not fire it.

Criminals in real life prefer guns they can conceal or easily carry.

[gun-fucious]

consider the source:
http://www.vpc.org/snipercrime.htm

Criminal Use of the 50 Caliber Sniper Rifle

* Branch Davidian cult members fired 50 caliber sniper rifles at federal agents during their initial gun battle on February 28, 1993. The weapons' ability to penetrate "any tactical vehicle in the FBI's inventory" prompted the agency to request military armored vehicles "to give FBI personnel adequate protection from the .50 caliber rifles" and other more powerful weapons the Branch Davidians might have had.


* On February 27, 1992, a Wells Fargo armored delivery truck was attacked in a "military style operation" in Chamblee, Georgia, by several men using a smoke grenade and a Barrett 50 caliber sniper rifle. Two employees were wounded.


* On April 28, 1995, Albert Petrosky walked into an Albertson's Grocery Store in suburban Denver, Colorado, and gunned down his estranged wife and the store manager. Armed with an L.A.R. Grizzly 50 caliber sniper rifle, an SKS Chinese semi-automatic assault rifle, a .32 revolver, and a 9mm semi-automatic pistol, Petrosky then walked out into the shopping center parking lot, where he exchanged fire with a federal IRS agent passing by and killed Sgt. Timothy Mossbrucker of the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department. Petrosky, who was known to his friends as "50-cal Al," fired all four weapons, including the 50 caliber rifle, during this murderous rampage.


* On March 19, 1998, following an undercover investigation, federal law enforcement officers arrested three members of a radical Michigan group known as the North American Militia. The men were charged with plotting to bomb federal office buildings, destroy highways, utilities and public roads, and assassinate the state's governor, senior U.S. Senator, federal judges and other federal officials. All three were ultimately convicted. A 50 caliber sniper rifle was among the weapons found in their possession.


* Wisconsin father and son James and Theodore Oswald were sentenced in 1995 to multiple life terms for armed robbery and the murder of a Waukesha police captain. The two had "a small armory of sophisticated and expensive weapons, including two custom-made .50-caliber rifles powerful enough to assault an armored car—which the two were considering doing," according to the Waukesha county sheriff.


* In the summer of 1995, Canadian officials in British Columbia found a Barrett 50 caliber sniper rifle, 500 rounds of ammunition for it, and enough explosives to fill a five ton truck at a remote site. It is believed that members of a Texas militia group planned to set up a training camp at the site. Although at least one convicted felon was identified as a suspect, the investigation was dropped due to difficulties in prosecuting across national borders. The incident prompted one Texas Constitutional Militia official to observe, "We are not all raving maniacs. I'd kind of like to keep our lunatics on our side of the border."


* According to the General Accounting Office, 50 caliber sniper rifles have been found in the armories of drug dealers in California, Missouri, and Indiana, and a federal investigation in 1999 was "targeting the movement of .50 caliber semi-automatic rifles from the United States to Mexico for use by drug cartels."


* At least two persons have been charged with illegally making and selling 50 caliber sniper rifles. Robert W. Stewart of Mesa, Arizona, a convicted felon, is charged with felony possession of firearms by being in possession of Maadi-Griffin 50 caliber "kit guns" he was selling from his home, along with other firearms alleged to be in his possession. Stewart has become a folk hero among hard-line gun rights advocates and 50 caliber enthusiasts. He is distinguished, among other things, by his recent assertion that convicted felons have the right to have guns: "I don't care if he's a mass murderer, he killed 50,000 people. He still has a right to have a gun. A gun is just a tool."

Another convicted felon, Wayne Frank Barbuto, has been charged in Salt Lake with attempting to sell two 50 caliber sniper rifles to undercover federal agents. The government believes Barbuto manufactured the guns himself. It is not clear whether this refers to kit guns of the Maadi-Griffin type.

[Mark Tyson]

So because some evil men use weapons to commit crime, the majority of decent, lawful citizens should give them up. Get me a barf bag, someone. We could stop a heck of a lot of crime if we ignored the 4th, 5th and 8th amendments too, you know. You'd probably stop more crime that way than if you banned 50 cals.

If it saves only one life. . .

[GSB]

I notice in the VPC's mind that a .50 BMG crime consists of any crime where anyone involved might have at one time been in the vicinity of a .50 BMG, whether it was actually used in the crime or not. :rolleyes:

[Henry Bowman]

Notice heavy (or should I say liberal) use of the buzzword ".50 caliber sniper rifle. :rolleyes:

[2dogs]

Branch Davidian cult members fired 50 caliber sniper rifles at federal agents during their initial gun battle on February 28, 1993.

Further research might find different information, but since the VPC consists of nothing but habitual liars, I wouldn't bother. (This list is on other websites if you don't like the one referenced.)

This list doesn't show any .50 caliber rifles confiscated:

WEAPONS RECOVERED FROM THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPOUND:
TREASURY SUMMARY OF REPORT PREPARED BY THE FBI FOR PROSECUTORS
AND THE TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY

ILLEGAL WEAPONS RECOVERED

Machine guns

The FBI determined that 46 semiautomatic firearms had been
modified to fire in full automatic mode:

22 M-16 Type Rifles

20 AK-47 Type Rifles

2 Heckler and Koch SP-89

2 M-11/Nine

The FBI also determined that two AR-15 lower receivers had been
modified to fire in full automatic mode.

Silencers

21 Sound suppressors or silencers

Hand Grenades

4 Live M-21 Practice Hand Grenades

The possession of lawfully manufactured machineguns, silencers,
or grenades requires the owner to register the weapon with the
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms. None of the compound's
residents were registered to own such a weapon, therefore it
would have been illegal for them to possess these weapons.
WEAPONS RECOVERED FROM THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPOUND:
TREASURY SUMMARY OF REPORT PREPARED BY THE FBI FOR PROSECUTORS
AND THE TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY

TOTAL WEAPONS RECOVERED

(Including Weapons Mentioned on Previous Page)

FIREARMS

Rifles and Rifle Components

61 M-16 Type and 2 M-16 Lower Receivers

61 AK-47 Type

34 AR-15 Type and 2 AR-15 Lower Receivers

13 Shotguns -- 12 gauge

11 7.62MM FN FAL Type

10 Mini-14 Type

7 37mm. Flare Gun/Launcher Type

6 .30 Carbine Calber US Carbine, Model M1

6 Assorted Rifles

5 M-11/Nine

5 M-14 Type

3 Galil

2 Heckler and Koch SP-89

1 Air Rifle

1 Heckler and Koch MP-5

1 Sten submachine gun

Pistols and Revolvers

23 Beretta

13 Glock

8 Assorted Revolvers

6 Safari Arms

6 Assorted Pistols

5 Sig Sauer

5 Walther

2 Taurus

EXPLOSIVES

Hand Grenades

4 Live M-21 Practice Hand Grenades

100+ Modified M-21 Practice Hand Grenade bodies; the bodies
of these had been threaded and plugged but lacked a main charge
or fusing system.

11 M-69 Practice Hand Grenades; the bodies of these
grenades exhibited indications of attempted modifications.

219 Grenade Safety Pins

243 Grenade Safety Levers

Rifle Grenades

200+ Inert M31 Practice Rifle Grenades.

FIREARMS ACCESSORIES AND PARTS

Silencers

21 Sound suppressors or silencers.

Flash Suppressors

18 Flash Suppressors.

Firearms Barrels

17 M-16/AR-15 Type (5.56mm)

8 M-16/AR-15 Type (9mm caliber)

3 M-16/AR-15 Type (.45 ACP caliber)

1 M-16/AR-15 Type (5.56mm)

2 Ruger. 22 Caliber

1 M-60 machine gun

1 12 Gauge Shotgun

1 Taurus, Model 92, 9mm pistol barrel

1 Sig Sauer 9mm pistol barrel

Pistol Slides

1 Sig Sauer Model

Revolver Parts

1 .38 Special caliber cylinder

Bolt Carriers

39 M-16

24 AR-15

2 MP-5

2 AK-47

1 FAL

1 Unknown

Bolts

15 AK-47

7 .22 LR conversion

3 M-16/AR-15

1 FN FAL (1)

Bolt Assemblies

3 M-11/Nine

2 M-16

1 AR-15

1 MAC-10

1 Shotgun

Recoil Springs and Guides

3 Glock

2 Sig Sauer

1 Beretta

1 M-11/Nine

Stripper Clips

29 Stripper Clips

Accessories

6 .22 LR Caliber Conversion Kits

Hammers

31 AK-47

18 M-16

12 AR-15

4 M-11/Nine

2 Sig Sauer

1 Beretta

Hammer Springs

3 AK-47

Buffer/Recoil Springs

36 M-16/AR-15

4 AK-47

Selector Switches

9 M-16

3 AR-15

1 Unknown

Sears

1 M-11/Nine

Auto Sears

8 AK-47

4 M-16

1 FN FAL

Auto Sear Springs

12 AK-47

Disconnects

7 AK-47

1 M-16

Trigger/Trigger Mechanisms/Trigger Housings

17 M-16

6 AR-15

3 M-60

3 M-11/Nine

2 MP-5

2 Sten

1 AK-47

1 Heckler & Koch

1 M-14

1 Smith & Wesson

1 Beretta

1 Shotgun

Ammunition Magazines

289 7.62 x 39mm AK-47 Type

248 .223/5.56mm M-16/AR-15 Type

108 Sten Gun Type

88 .308 Caliber FN FAL Type

72 M-14 Type

61 Beretta Model Type 92

58 .308 Caliber of Unknown Type

28 Ruger Mini-14 Type

22 .22 Caliber

17 UZI Type

16 USAS-12 Type

13 .45 Caliber

11 Glock

11 MP-5

11 Sig Sauer P226/P228

9 Unknown Type

7 .308 Caliber Galil Type

6 Walther PPK

5 9mm Unknown Type

4 .50 Caliber

3 .30 Caliber U.S. Carbine

3 .380 Auto Caliber

2 9mm Smith & Wesson

1 AK-74 Type

1 Grendel

Ammunition Containers

220 Metal Boxes (Various Calibers)

15 Wooden Boxes (Various Calibers)

4 Buckets (Varioius Calibers)

1 Cardboard Boxes (Various Calibers)

Magazine Springs

360 M-16/AR-15

42 FN FAL .308 Caliber Type

35 AK-47

28 9mm Magazine Springs of Unknown Type

15 Unknown

10 M-14

6 M-1 Carbine

3 .50 Caliber

1 Mini-14 Magazine

1 Glock



These lists do not include dozens of other items recovered from the Compound such as dust covers, extractors, front and rear sights, gun cleaning equipment, bolt release levers, compensators, .50 caliber belt links and numerous other parts.

http://www.totse.com/en/conspiracy/waco/news3.html

[Spot77]

Well you better watch out. I can guarantee that more crimes have been committed with Glock 19's than all brands of .50 caliber weapons combined.

So hide your Glocks before Arnie terminates them for you too..

[2dogs]

And if they did have a .50 caliber:

The VPC and Waxman cite the .50 caliber rifle as a great threat, yet it is one of the few calibers that have never been used in a crime. They will demonize the rifle telling the public that the Branch Davidians had a .50 caliber weapon, but they neglect to mention it was not used once in the lengthy conflict.

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=2729

[Zedicus]

i won't say it, i won't say it....

ah what the hell...

Arnie: .50 caliber will not be back.

Me: Talk to the Hand musclehead!

:D

[Monkeyleg]

2dogs, that sounds like a list of the guns Tamara just hasn't got around to cleaning yet. ;)

[TallPine]

Amazing how they found all that stuff in the ruins of fire ... :rolleyes:

[spartacus2002]

So he's a RINO (Republican In Name Only). Big surprise. So was Mayor Bloomberg.

Jeez, if Josef Stalin or Pol Pot announced he was running as a Republican, Republicans would turn out in droves to vote them in........ and I'm only being a little over-the-top when I say that

[Mark Tyson]

The FBI sniper Chris Whitcomb said that he stared down the barrel of a Barrett 50 caliber while on duty at Waco.

[OF]

Anyone see the debates in CA? My brother in LA said that McClintock kicked serious arse. If he becomes a viable candidate, we're going to have to take Ahnold out one way or another...

- Gabe

[Moparmike]

.50 cal rifles are a threat. So friggin what? They cost $2000-$10,000. Kind of prohibitive. Ammo is $1-$5 per round.

However, I wonder how many murder weapons I can find for under $20 at any Kalifornia hardware store. BAN HARDWARE STORES!!! THEY CARRY MURDER WEAPONS!!! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Give me a break.

[Standing Wolf]

I don't ever vote for anti-Second Amendment bigots.

[50 Shooter]

If the FBI was staring down the barrel of a .50 at Waco, why didn't they find any .50's there. Oh, I guess they must have burnt up in the fire.:rolleyes:

This is one of the biggest LIES that the VPC likes to spread.

[Cellar Dweller]

if Josef Stalin or Pol Pot announced he was running as a Republican, Republicans would turn out in droves to vote them in........
You forgot to add, "while encouraging third-party voters to not throw away their votes because a Democrat might win instead...":uhoh:

[telomerase]

>You forgot to add, "while encouraging third-party voters to not throw away their votes because a Democrat might win instead..."

It's like the Latvians or Croats arguing during WWII:

"Hitler's not as bad as Stalin!"

"Yes he is!"

"No he's not!"

It's pointless to support people who are against your rights just to irritate other people who also want to take your rights. Even if you lose some battles, at least if you support people on your side you gain your side some PR and recruit more support.

[Kharn]

Master Blaster:
Sorry, I dont have a link to the story, got it from word of mouth.

One reason could be that criminals dont think in terms of the prices of a transferable M2 ($10k+), they think in street value, which is probably much, much lower for a stolen military M2 (and almost insignificant if they got a good haul from the armored car). Also, how would they get away with 200#+ of machine gun (including the tripod, you'd have to disassemble it to move it, no way you could move it in one piece, especially not from the back of a delivery truck), since they probably had no idea if the cops were chasing them or not.

I wouldnt have bothered with disassembling the M2 and moving it to a different escape vehicle if I were in that situation. Having just robbed an armored car I could probably afford to buy a whole bunch more from where that one came from. And I wouldnt bother getting a non-stolen, transferable one, so my cost would be much lower.

Kharn