Moving with firearms?


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eejohnson
August 26, 2008, 02:40 AM
Hi Folks,
Silly question about legalities. I am giving advice to my sister-in-law, so if I get her arrested it may affect "quality time" with the wife.

When moving from one state to another, there is no special paperwork/ FFL involvement necessary assuming that:

1) The firearms are legal in both the to and from states (in this case OR to KT).
2) The state being moved to doesn't have any registration policies.
3) Federal transportation rules are followed (or each state's rules that you pass through).
4) No class III items are included.

Is this correct?

Thanks
EEJ

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Chris B
August 26, 2008, 02:47 AM
Should be fine. That's how I've gone from MD to FL and MD to AZ; then again I've never had a firearms related legal issue. I'm not a lawyer either.

Vegaslaith
August 26, 2008, 03:09 AM
I'd read up on the 1986 Firearms Owners Protection Act (FOPA) It sets certain standards for the transportation of guns interstate. Keeping the ammo and gun seperate and in locked containers is one of the main points, I believe. It also gives gun owners temporary immunity from a State's laws while in a vehicle as long as the only stops made are for food or gas. Its an interesting read.

madmike
August 26, 2008, 02:59 PM
I've always wondered, are REASONABLE overnight motel stops allowed? Or is it considered reasonable to insist someone drive for 20-30 hours straight through lest a Pelosi panic?

Quoheleth
August 26, 2008, 03:18 PM
I wondered that same thing when I moved from Austin, Texas to St. Louis, MO in 1996. Dad had me call a buddy of his with the Williamson County Sherriff's office. The gist of the conversation, as I recall, is that as long as the firearms are legally mind (yep), legally owned (yep), and in my vehicle - particularly in the box of the U-Haul (yep) - I would be OK.

Further, I was advised to leave guns in the truck and not try to haul them into/out of a motel (one-night stay on the way) so as to not draw attention to myself (either the truck or the room) or borrow trouble.

I only had long-guns at the time. I buried the guns deep in the belly of the Uhaul so no over-zealous cop could argue I could make a threat to him should I be pulled over. Ammo was likewise buried...I believe even inside of a dresser drawer that was entirely wrapped with shrink-wrap. If I were moving today with handguns, I would probably do something similar, except keep one nearby in the cab - maybe in a small, soft-side tool kit - to be unobtrusive and discreet.

In short, be smart about it and you should be OK.

Q

Old Grump
August 26, 2008, 03:22 PM
If you stopped to sight see, visit or do business you are a temporary resident but a motel stop if you had a starting point and a destination point far enough apart you aren't going to be in any trouble. Just pick a motel as close to your highway as possible. If the arms and ammo are cased and locked and preferably out of sight, you won't have any problems. just common sense stuff. I had to do that when I moved, moving company wouldn't take guns or ammo so I had to make a wood case and install a padlock on it and transported in my car. Only time I sweat it was a near accident in Cook County Illinois when the hitch on the car I was towing lost a bolt and I did a 180 degree fish tail on an off ramp. Not to happy with U-Haul just then. Closer inspection made me realize how lucky I had been the first 1,600 miles because there wasn't a single lock washer on any of the bolts. If there had been a wreck and I had to be towed into Chicago I might have had a lot of talking to do. The only state I would really worry about having to stop in is New Jersey and its small enough you could drive straight through.

SCKimberFan
August 26, 2008, 06:26 PM
(in this case OR to KT)

Do you mean KS or KY or CT?

Aside from NY or IL, you should not have any problems. Just follow FOPA. If you are going through NY, try to make it through without stopping overnight.

yhtomit
August 26, 2008, 07:55 PM
I will be doing similar in a few weeks; my biggest concession to the idiocy of places like IL is to route around them, though otherwise I would enjoy going through Michigan, then Illinois and (Yes!) even spending some money there. Instead, I'll take more southernly route. I will stop with family and friends along the way, taking advantage of nice neighborhoods, garaged parking, etc. I will keep a copy of FOPA in the glove compartment.

timothy

Duke Junior
August 26, 2008, 08:41 PM
When moving from one state to another, there is no special paperwork/ FFL involvement necessary assuming that:

1) The firearms are legal in both the to and from states (in this case OR to KT).
2) The state being moved to doesn't have any registration policies.
3) Federal transportation rules are followed (or each state's rules that you pass through).
4) No class III items are included.

Is this correct?

Welcome to THR, eejohnson.Here is the FOPA 1986 Statute,mentioned by vegas and Kimber.

18 USC 926 - Sec. 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms

Permanent Link: http://vlex.com/vid/19190852

Text:
" Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console."

First of all Class III are legal in 35 states including Oregon and your eventual destination Kentucky,compliance with Federal law only.I see nothing in FOPA precluding Class III transport.The only state between Oregon and KY that disallows them is Missouri.FOPA carry should solve that.You could of course dip down through Arkansas to Tennessee and UP to Kentucky there by bypassing all unfriendly states.
Using FOPA when you have to, I see no problems with moving all your firearms to your new home.
You should be good to go on all 4 of your questions.
Obviously,IANAL.
BTW,Iowa and of course Illinois disallow Class III.No need to go near either state on your journey.
You are going to Kentucky,right?

eejohnson
August 27, 2008, 04:57 PM
Hi Folks,
Thanks for all of the input! She is heading to Kentucky, sorry for the confusion...


Since the sister-in-law is moving, not just traveling, I was mainly checking that she didn’t need to go through an FFL like when you sell firearms across state lines.

I am going to tell her to follow the FOPA 1986 Statute (Duke Junior posted it word for word) and avoid Illinois just in case. FOPA should protect her even in Illinois, but local towns can pre-empt state laws and I have not had time to research which towns may be a problem.




Some input for other folks:
Most folks interpret that FOPA does not allow for overnight stays in states that ban the firearms in question. For example, if you were going through Illinois with a class III item, you could only stop in Illinois for gas and bio-breaks. Once you enter a non-ban state, you can travel more freely.

I recommend getting the “Traveler’s Guide to the Firearm Laws of the Fifty States” (available through the NRA) for anyone that is interested in traveling with firearms. You don’t always have to follow FOPA; many states even allow open carry in your car without a CCP.

Class III
I don’t think the sister-in-law has any, but I will check (I think the ex-hubby might have had a few…)
For those that are interested, however, here is what I found online:

If you are transporting the weapons within your state,
it is wise to keep a photocopy of the registration paperwork,
whatever it is, (can be Form 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 10, as well as
other more exotic forms of registration,… with the gun.

To move weapons between states two rules apply. An
individual must get permission from ATF to move machine guns,
short rifles, short shotguns or destructive devices between
states (or to temporarily export them) before doing so. This
includes taking them somewhere to shoot them, or when moving.
There is a form called a 5320.20, and ATF will always approve
them, and fairly quickly, assuming the purpose (generally stated)
for the movement is legitimate, and the target state allows the
weapon in question.

An unlicensed
individual need not ask permission to move AOW's or suppressor's
interstate, again watch the laws at the target state. Having
the approved 5320.20 form for a suppressor or AOW can avoid
hassle while traveling.

Duke Junior
August 27, 2008, 05:31 PM
If you are transporting the weapons within your state,
it is wise to keep a photocopy of the registration paperwork,
whatever it is, (can be Form 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 10, as well as
other more exotic forms of registration, with the gun.

To move weapons between states two rules apply. An
individual must get permission from ATF to move machine guns,
short rifles, short shotguns or destructive devices between
states (or to temporarily export them) before doing so. This
includes taking them somewhere to shoot them, or when moving.
There is a form called a 5320.20, and ATF will always approve
them, and fairly quickly, assuming the purpose (generally stated)
for the movement is legitimate, and the target state allows the
weapon in question.

An unlicensed
individual need not ask permission to move AOW's or suppressor's
interstate, again watch the laws at the target state. Having
the approved 5320.20 form for a suppressor or AOW can avoid
hassle while traveling.

Excellent information on the movement of Class III items between different states.
Thank you, ee.

yhtomit
September 21, 2008, 09:29 PM
Reviving this thread to say thanks for the info -- I've now moved across the country, with my (small, but important to me) handful of guns, and was confident in planning in large part to this forum / this thread in particular. Was happy to spend no extra money in Illinois.

Cheers,

timothy

Soybomb
September 22, 2008, 12:04 AM
I would also like to point out that several people have been arrested over the years even though they've fallen under the protection of FOPA. Keep your guns tucked away if you're traveling through non gun friendly places.

yhtomit
September 22, 2008, 04:28 AM
"I would also like to point out that several people have been arrested over the years even though they've fallen under the protection of FOPA. Keep your guns tucked away if you're traveling through non gun friendly places."

I think and hope I was pretty well under the radar -- nondescript car, only a few suspcious bumper stickers, driving at gas-saving speeds rather than speeding-ticket speeds. Guns were all in locked cases out of reach, and no ammo in the car. (Ammo's heavy!)

Still a great relief to finally have my stuff (not just guns!) all inside lockable house doors; in this neighborhood at least, petty car break ins are frequent, but house break ins are not.

timothy

Aguila Blanca
September 22, 2008, 10:02 AM
Most folks interpret that FOPA does not allow for overnight stays in states that ban the firearms in question. For example, if you were going through Illinois with a class III item, you could only stop in Illinois for gas and bio-breaks. Once you enter a non-ban state, you can travel more freely.
I disagree that "most folks" interpret the FOPA to prohibit all but bathroom and fuel stops. The issue of overnight stops is not addressed at all, either to allow them or to prohibit them. Duke Junior's post above includes the exact text. The usual interpretation has been that any stop "in the normal course of travel" is allowed.

Indeed, that was the defense of the gentleman who was arrested and incarcerated at Newark (NJ) International Airport awhile back. He had spent the night at an airport hotel due to a missed connection and was arrested when he tried to re-check his handgun. Eventually, I believe the authorities realized they had no case and they dropped the charges. As someone else commented, it seems that spending the night at an "interchange zone" hotel as near as possible to your highway is in the normal course of travel. Taking a 50-mile detour to visit Uncle Hank and Aunt Sally probably is not covered.

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