[AnaxImperator]

.... they must take a sort of Teutonic glee in making one of the simplest handgun designs as complicated as possible.

The Korth "Combat" .357... starting at 4,920€ !
(is that a safety under/next to the hammer?!?)

http://www.korthusa.com/images/r-troja-1-1.jpg

http://www.korthusa.com/images/cutaway3a.jpg

Jeez.... it looks like you couldn't fit a c***-hair between the cylinder & barrel.

http://www.korthusa.com/images/cutaway4a.jpg

I had to chuckle at their company's target customer base.....

"Among the thousands of satisfied owners are crowned heads of state, prominent celebrities, the international jet set, and high-ranking police and security officials of many nations. What is common to all Korth owners, regardless of rank or social status, is their unique attitude to firearms."

And in small print above their mission statement;

"Raw steel transformed into precision"
Korth USA is a division of Earl's Repair Service, Inc

Kinda would make me nervous sending in my $6000+ precision revolver in for warranty work. :p

[Schmidlin]

for that price and all those parts....hopefully it reloads its self :)

[Halo]

I wonder if Earl's also does income tax and lawnmower service?

[scrat]

I wonder if Earl's also does income tax and lawnmower service?

If he does somebody needs to send him to my house first. my blades on my reel mower could use a good sharpening and the reel is starting to make a bearing squel noise.

Oh and somebody tell him to take a picture with the hammer off i want to see what it looks like underneath with that safety switch.


You know Samuel Colt would have a cornerary if he saw this. To think his original revolvers only consisted of 30 parts total

[P5 Guy]

(is that a safety under/next to the hammer?!?)
The cylinder release?

[Schmidlin]

Yah it looks like the cylinder release, which is actually kind of cool to have it there...just use your thumb off the hammer and its out.

[Beagle-zebub]

Looks like a Python or a Dan Weeson. Is there any way that this thing is good enough to justify the price difference against a Python or a Dan Wesson?

[Loomis]

It is a cylinder release and it's a very good idea, imo.

Korth also makes semi auto pistols.

[Standing Wolf]

Looks like some French guy wanted to build a Python, so he went to work in the Ruger factory for a couple weeks.

[mtngunr]

Korth makes one of the finest precision revolvers of all time....period....

[VE2RF]

Earl's Repair is one of the most prominent Walther Parts, Repair, and Customization Centers in the World.

They're allowed by Walther to keep the name of Walther USA by Walther of Germany, while it is also licensed to Smith and Wesson.

They sell enough Walther parts in a year to own the lawns and houses you guys are talking about...

[General Geoff]

An impressive piece of machinery, no doubt.

$6000 impressive? Ehh, I think I'd take an Accuracy International rifle for that price, and have enough left over for a Smith & Wesson Performance Center 627 (8 shots is better than 6! :neener: ).

[Hawk]

Looks like a Python or a Dan Weeson. Is there any way that this thing is good enough to justify the price difference against a Python or a Dan Wesson?

The last 3" Python I saw at auction went for 10,000.00.
What about a 3" Python makes it worth 4,000.00 more than a Korth?

[Hawk]

.... they must take a sort of Teutonic glee in making one of the simplest handgun designs as complicated as possible.

And that "simplist handgun design" would be?

Surely not one such as this?
http://www.e-gunparts.com/images/schematic/0660zPYTHON.jpg

I like revolvers too but sometimes it seems some of our number insist on confusing operational simplicity with mechanical simplicity and it just isn't so.

They took a complex design and made it slightly more so.

[Phydeaux642]

I like revolvers too but sometimes it seems some of our number insist on confusing operational simplicity with mechanical simplicity and it just isn't so.

+1

When I look at the design of a revolver, it actually looks more complicated than an auto to me. But, I sure do love those wheelguns.

[RandomMan]

Having handled, but never shot a Korth revolver, I can tell you one thing, Korth's are built to exude quality. They are finely finished, exquistely assembled, perfectly machined, and exhibit tolerances that have to be seen to be appreciated.

A Smith and Wesson is kind of like a Toyota Camry, a Performance Center gun is a Lexus, a Python is somewhere in the neighborhood of a Mercedes C-Class or Porsche Boxster, the Korth is a gun that's as finely tuned and finished as a 911 Turbo or Mercedes S-Series.

A lot of folks are happy to drive Camry's some want to drive 911 Turbos. It's a matter of taste and if your tastes run to exquisite machining, wonderful detail, and high end finishing, then it is the gun for you. If you prefer something more utilitarian, spartan if you will, then it's not.

-Rob

PS: I agree with the assessment that revolvers are not mechanically simple weapons. I challenge you to take the side cover off of a Colt D or I Frame gun and tell me it's simple. Furthermore, take apart a Dan Wesson gun and tell me it's a simple firearm. A 1911 or Glock is a much more simple firearm in mechanics.

[SaMx]

yup, it's a korth. They're all hand fitted, ridiculously accurate revolvers. They're considered to be among the highest quality handguns out there.
Is the extra money worth it? To the people who buy them it is. Maybe to you it's not.

If I had that kind of money to throw around, I would seriously consider getting one.

[OFT]

Remember that the Germans also gave us the RG10.:rolleyes:

[batmann]

Aren't these same people who gave us the Tiger tank!
it is a beautiful piece, but I'll keep my Ruger 'Alaskan' and my S&W
'Mountain Gun', both in .44Mag and spend the difference in ammo and leather.

[Smeh]

I wonder if that thing under the hammer is the cylinder release latch. There doesn't seem to be one on the side of the gun, where it would usually be.

EDIT: Somebody beat me to it a while ago, apparently. I thought I was being smart. :(

[nero45acp]

Mein Gott! :what:


nero

[RPCVYemen]

I think that "Gun Tests" reviewed one a while back, and were just blown away. As I recall, they felt like you got your money's worth with one - if you have that kind of money to spend. :)

It is evidently a fantastic revolver.

Mike

[bflobill_69]

They look an awful lot like Colt Python's...

Colt still making them through the custom shop?

Bflobill_69

[AnaxImperator]

A Colt (or my Wife's Rossi) revolver may be more mechanically complex than a 1911 (or my Tokarev), but for mechanically simple revolvers I was thinking more along the lines of my 1895 Nagant or maybe a Webley.

[Hawk]

The Nagant would appear less parts-happy than either the Python or Korth:
http://buymilsurp.com/pictorials/m1895pict.jpg

But I'd tend to believe that the Python is a more appropriate comparison for the Korth than a 100.00, 110 plus year old military handgun.

Personally, I could see myself paying 5,000.00 for a Korth well before paying a similar amount for certain Python variations. At least the Korth may be fired with impunity where the high dollar Pythons derive a significant portion of their value from "NIB unfired" and are more suitable for use as a paperweight or safe-filler. The Korth may be had with a 3" barrel without additional cost - try that with the Colt.

But to each their own. We seldom express shock over 4,000.00 Nighthawk Heinies or 5,000.00 Python-shaped decorations but the Korth seldom fails to draw such comments. Admittedly, 'tis a mystery to me.

[Gator]

Last year I heard that the local Cabela's had a used Korth for $950. I dashed over there at light speed....but was too late. :(

[dagger dog]

Vunderbar! the cutaway display is a work unto itself, just look at the precision, and I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut they used a perfectly good
specimen to make it.

[Standing Wolf]

The last 3" Python I saw at auction went for 10,000.00.
What about a 3" Python makes it worth 4,000.00 more than a Korth?

Scarcity. Pure scarcity.

[Beagle-zebub]

The 3" Python's are collector's items, right? Although I think that's silly, too.

Pythons seem to be in the $1,000-$2,000 range, so a Korth would be four Pythons. Are they worth it?

[Gator]

Are they worth it?

Something is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. So yes, they are worth it for enough people to have kept Korth in business for a lot of years.

[Hawk]

Scarcity. Pure scarcity.

Agreed.

But, with an admission that I don't know for certain, I'd conjecture that there are more 3" Pythons than 3" Korths.

There just aren't very many Korths of any stripe.

"Collector Frenzy" is my guess. Wasn't it Greenspan that said the definition of a bubble was "knowingly overpaying for something based solely on the assumption that some other chump will overpay even more"?

Someone might make money paying 10,000.00 for a 3" Colt and using it for ballast in his safe (he sure can't shoot it) but he may not. Beanie Baby collectors and rubbernose Corvette collectors learned that lesson. Markets based on rarity can be fickle.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

I'm a S&W man all the way.

It looks nice but I'll take a smith any day.

[1858]

I have a 4" polished stainless Python in pieces (for cleaning/maintenance) as I write and it IS a complicated piece of machinery but it is a JOY to shoot especially with a roller-bearing seer. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Python is the last firearm I'd part with if I had to make a choice ... it is a thing of beauty on so many levels and I can see why Colt couldn't afford to continue producing them. The machining alone is enough to give a bean counter nightmares and when you consider all of the fitting and polishing ... I still feel that $750 was a fair price when I bought it new in '92.

:)

[PzGren]

Laugh all you want! I am affluent enough to be able to afford one and enjoy mine very much.

I have shot ISSF matches long enough to appreciate a gun capable of top accuracy. My K-22 is not a whole lot worse but the S/A of the Korth is something that even my Python cannot touch.

I consider myself a S&W wheelgunner but have to say that I did not regrret getting the Korth. Korth revolvers are handfitted in a small shop, to call it a factory is probably misleading, and the amount of fitting that goes into one gun is driving the prices up. Are they worth the money? Well, is a Les Baer or Ed Brown really so much better? For some it is, for others any gun will do.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z159/Andyd173/Korthoriggrips001.jpg

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I favor semi-autos way more than revolvers. But they are complicated. I'm fine with that. But I do like revolvers for their back-up "always ready" reliability and simplicity. This design seems to nullify that. I'll pass. If I want complicated, I'll take my semi-autos.

[PzGren]

The cylinder release on the Korth makes it easy for left and right handed shooters to swing out the cylinder without shifting the grip.

What I find interesting here, are the opinions of people on the Korth that obviously have never seen, nor held one. But besides other things, everybody has an opinion.

I had a hard time to find the sideplate on my Korth, unlike on a S&W, it is on the left side and so well fitted that the line can barely be seen. With a push on the button at the lower front of the frame, I can take the cylinder assembly out and it surely makes cleaning easier.

[PTK]

Hate to tell you this, but that isn't appreciably more complex than Ruger revolvers.

[1858]

but the S/A of the Korth is something that even my Python cannot touch.

PzGren, have you ever pulled the trigger on a Python with a roller-bearing seer? I think you might be impressed by the SA pull but you'll be AMAZED by the DA pull.

:)

[PzGren]

No, I have not tried the roller sear. My Python is bone stock and pretty much resting in the back of the safe since I bought it in 1985.

What makes the S/A pull of the Python less desirable to me than the trigger of my S&W M14-2, is the length of hammer drop. Follow through with the Python is as hard as on my Feinwerkbau airpistol. By the way, the hammer drop of the Korth is also longer than on a S&W but the hammer seems to fall still faster. The D/A pull on the Python is also too long for my taste. The Korth's trigger characteristics do not please me as well as the S&W, either.

To be honest I like the D/A pull best on a slicked up S&W M65 that I is a former L.E. gun. K frames always amaze me.

The finish on my Python is definitely rather handsome, after all I had bought that gun for looks and used the M14 in matches but the finish is where the Korth really shines, mine in from the golden age of German manufacturing, 1969.

I visited the Korth shop in Ratzeburg, Germany and was quite impressed with the amount of hand labor and fitting that was involved in manufacturing one gun and I was also surprised how small of an operation it really was.

[PzGren]

But here is a gun that is top-notch! A S&W 625 Model of 1989 that I used for pins and in IDPA when 5" were still legal. The value of this gun is strictly utilitarian!!!

Unfortunately I gave it to my son...

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z159/Andyd173/SW625.jpg

[Myles]

I had the opportunity to handle a Korth, years back. Without reservation, it was the tightest, slickest piece of mechanical engineering that I have ever handled. I still yearn to shoot one.

At the time, I scoffed at the price tag, but secretly envied the man who could afford one. There is simple beauty in precision.

[RonSC]

...at a cost of 6 "large" you'd think they'd at least managed a decent blueing job...

[dao]

I would prefer a Manurhin MR73 ( the best out-of-the-box double action ), but the Korth is a masterpiece equal in quality and efficiency.

Otherwise, a well tuned S&W can be as good ( but not cheaper probably ).

[Poprivit]

I've got a 1972 4" python with an accuracy/trigger job by the late F. Bob Chow in San Francisco. I carried it as a duty gun for years and finally had my initials engraved on the trigger guard just so I would never be tempted to sell it.

I'll put its DA up against any wheel gun made - including the Korth.

Oh Yeah, I paid $210 for the gun and $55 for the accuracy job. 'Course today the same gun/accuracy job might just be a tad more expensive.

[ceadermtnboy]

The Korth is a work of art no doubt. However for someone wanting a revolver that is dependable, easily tuned, never has timing issues, and will continue shooting way after the Korth is sent back to a gunsmith. Get the Ruger GP-100 or a S&W L frame. Hey if speding big money for diminishing returns makes you happy, then go for it.

[Checkman]

I own one. It's in the glove box of my Rolls Royce. It's my throw away piece.:evil:

[ShakyJake]

Out of curiosity, does that kind of tight tolerence around the B/C gap require frequent cleaning or is it self-cleaning by virtue of the gap being so tight it wipes it self clean on the barrel as the cylinder rotates. What can I do with it that I can't do with my butter smooth Security Six?
TaKe CaRe
Ted

[PzGren]

The Korth is a work of art no doubt. However for someone wanting a revolver that is dependable, easily tuned, never has timing issues, and will continue shooting way after the Korth is sent back to a gunsmith. Get the Ruger GP-100 or a S&W L frame. Hey if speding big money for diminishing returns makes you happy, then go for it.

With all due respect, I doubt that you have any experience with Korth revolvers. While the Python is known for timing problems with use, the Korth is a very solid gun. Mine is made in 1969 and I can only guess that it has been shot a lot by the worn blueing on the extractor rod.

Out of curiosity, does that kind of tight tolerence around the B/C gap require frequent cleaning or is it self-cleaning by virtue of the gap being so tight it wipes it self clean on the barrel as the cylinder rotates. What can I do with it that I can't do with my butter smooth Security Six?

Ted,
my Korth is a .22 l.r. and I usually shoot up to 200 rounds through it in a range session and the ejection of the empties is a whole lot easier than on my K 22 or the old Colt Officers Match. The Korth does not rquire a lot of cleaning and is still working after a couple of hundred rounds.The single action of none of my Rugers, including the six-series guns and also my Colt Python get anywhere close in D/A pull. My S&W 14-2 and my favorite wheel gun a S&W M65 have a trigger pull that is as smooth but does not have the same clean break. The Officers Match is nearly as nice and for pure utility, or bang for the buck, the Korth is probably not giving you the 400% better performance that the price implies.

But then does a Maserati give you really an equally big advantage over a Corvette than the sticker would imply?

[Jim March]

High-end guns are like high-end cars in one sense: that last burst of high-end quality costs BIGTIME. When modifying a motor, the first 20hp you add is dirt cheap, the last 20hp is going to cost an arm and a leg (and an engine teardown).

In this case, yeah, it sorta IS "diminishing returns" but the reek of quality and the feel...well, if you can afford it, you ARE getting it.

I personally lust after a Freedom Arms '97 frame, 357 six-shot, 4" barrel, fixed sights and the new rounded gripframe. It would set me back $1,400. I don't have it...but if you've ever handled an FA, that "reek of quality" is also evident for a lot less than a Korth - so long as you're into SA wheelgunning.

[JohnL2]

Any chance at all that Colt could license out the designs of its revolvers to another manufacturer?
I can't believe the prices people are paying for the ones floating around out there.

[PzGren]

I personally lust after a Freedom Arms '97 frame, 357 six-shot, 4" barrel, fixed sights and the new rounded gripframe. It would set me back $1,400. I don't have it...but if you've ever handled an FA, that "reek of quality" is also evident for a lot less than a Korth - so long as you're into SA wheelgunning.
__________________

Jim,
I hear you. I shot a Freedom Arms Field Grade belonging to a friend in .454 - needless to say that I loved it!

I passed a FA for $800something about 15 years ago on a gun show in Owensboro, KY. I just did not have the money at that time . I was in an experimental phase just buying and selling dozens and dozens of guns.

So many guns left to try - and so little time ( and money ) left for it.

Now I enjoy my Korth and am thinking SIG P 210. Eventually a nice FA .454 Casull will come my way.... and I still need a Les Baer to really spend some time with it.