Can i carry concealed on my property in NJ?


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camxrr
August 26, 2008, 08:02 PM
Hi all, I'm new to the forum and have been enjoying all the great threads.

I recieved my pistol permit a few months ago and found that the only way one can obtain a CCW permit in NJ is to be of Merovingian blood-line. In anycase, i am legal to own just not carry, so my question is, can i carry concealed on my property; to and from my garage, cottage, farmost part of my land, to the BBQ patio etc?

Does the right to own and protect myself and family extend outside the actual house, but still within my completely fenced in piece of land?

I appreciate any help/info, thanks

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Duke Junior
August 26, 2008, 08:29 PM
From the NJ Statutes:

Applicable New Jersey law:Note "e".
NJ Code of Criminal Justice, 2C:39-5. Unlawful Possession of Weapons

b.Handguns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any handgun, including any antique handgun without first having obtained a permit to carry the same as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-4, is guilty of a crime of the third degree if the handgun is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person. Otherwise it is a crime of the second degree.

NJ Code of Criminal Justice, Title 2C:39-6

e. Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm, or from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair. For the purposes of this section, a place of business shall be deemed to be a fixed location.

NJ Code of Criminal Justice, Title 2C:39-6

g. All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

According to 2C:39-6 e. a person cannot be prevented from "keeping or carrying about his... premises... or other land... possessed by him, any firearm". Meaning that a person does not need a "permit to carry" to keep or carry a handgun while on his premises. In this case, a legal agreement has been signed between my family and the rental home owner, giving us rights to the rental home, which according to the rental agreement and the law will be my family's premises for the duration of the lease agreement. Would everyone agree that the rental property would be considered our "premises" for the duration of our stay?

From another forum:
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum38/10617.html

This news should make you happy.I hope.

sophijo
August 26, 2008, 09:42 PM
Do you know how that issue is in Michigan?

Duke Junior
August 26, 2008, 10:46 PM
Duke
Do you know how that issue is in Michigan?

This should help,sophijo,from opencarry.org

It's simple, if you are on your own land you can carry concealed or open. If you are on state land you HAVE to carry open if you no not have a CPL. IF you have a CPL you can carry openly or concealed on state land. As for DNR you can not attempt to take game with your firearm unless you have a licence to hunt the game animal and you are doing so during an open season. Keep in mind some animals (English sparrow, rock doves that is pigeons, starlings, and I think groundhogs, to name a few) do not have a CLOSED season and can be hunted all year. So to better cover yourself (though not mandatory) you can have a small game license on you when you carry without a CPL.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/10198.html

SCROLL DOWN.

camxrr
August 27, 2008, 06:09 PM
Excellent Duke, thanks. This is very important for me as one never really knows when a threat may come calling. My pistol is of no use locked up in the safe if I'm at the other end of the property and notice someone breaking into the house with my wife and 3 daughters in it.

I really appreciate the info,
Thanks

Duke Junior
August 27, 2008, 06:30 PM
I really appreciate the info,
Thanks

You're most welcome.Glad to be able to assist.
Enjoy the forum.:)

Aguila Blanca
August 27, 2008, 06:49 PM
Deleted - reread the statute.

HGUNHNTR
August 27, 2008, 10:38 PM
I wouldn't even breathe in a concealed manner in NJ.

I spent 4 long years there!

Duke Junior
August 27, 2008, 11:42 PM
I wouldn't even breathe in a concealed manner in NJ.

I spent 4 long years there!

It could have been 4 long years in Chi-town.I really think that would be worse, GO BIG RED.(If that's Nebraska!)
But that can be debated as everything else.

camxrr
August 28, 2008, 11:31 PM
Aguila, are you saying that i cannot carry on my property? Darn this law crap, i knew i should've listened to Mother and been a lawyer.

Duke Junior
August 29, 2008, 12:04 AM
Aguila, are you saying that i cannot carry on my property? Darn this law crap, i knew i should've listened to Mother and been a lawyer.

camxrr,Aguila has retracted his statement and is saying he has re-read the statute.See his post #7.You are good to go.Momma isn't always right.
Welcome to New Jersey!:D

Loomis
August 29, 2008, 12:08 AM
In Iowa (where I live) no permit is required when on your own land. Once you step one foot across your border line, you'd better have a permit though.

I would think it is the same in most other states.

buttrap
August 29, 2008, 12:11 AM
Depends on the state. As in Oregon if hunting going to or from you dont need no stinking permit to carry concield.

Duke Junior
August 29, 2008, 12:14 AM
I would think it is the same in most other states.

It is the same in most other states concealed,Loomis.
Several dozen states allow Open Carry outside your property boundary's with no permit needed.See:

http://opencarry.org/opencarry.html

Only 6 states(technically of course)forbid Open Carry:Arkansas,Florida,New York,Oklahoma,South Carolina and Texas.

Guillermo
August 29, 2008, 12:45 AM
in most states you can do whatever you want on your own property.

Then again, NJ is not really part of America

Duke Junior
August 29, 2008, 01:33 AM
Then again, NJ is not really part of America

Agreed in many respects,Guillermo.
Then we go back to the fact that Texas is one of only 6 no open carry states.And Austin is trying to become the San Francisco of the great South West.
Nothing is perfect in this world.

Guillermo
August 29, 2008, 11:08 AM
Then we go back to the fact that Texas is one of only 6 no open carry states.And Austin is trying to become the San Francisco of the great South West.

Well said Duke...well said

On the other hand, in every recent session of the legislature we have passed pro gun legislation. (castle doctrine, legal to carry in your vehicle etc)

We will get open carry...possibly this session

Duke Junior
August 29, 2008, 11:14 AM
We will get open carry...possibly this session

I'm a big supporter.My fingers are crossed for you and Texas.
Soon,you will have open carry.

romma
August 29, 2008, 11:15 AM
Step one foot off your property in NJ, and you are a Felon...

It sounds so ludicrous when you think about it doesn't it?

Guillermo
August 29, 2008, 01:17 PM
It sounds so ludicrous

because it is

Tom488
August 29, 2008, 06:53 PM
Just to clarify: NJ makes no distinction between concealed or open carry. 2C:39-5b says that it's unlawful to possess a handgun without having obtained a permit to carry. 2C:39-6e says that 2C:39-5b doesn't apply to someone keeping or carrying a firearm on their own property.

So, the carrying of a handgun in your home or on your property is not against the law.

Duke Junior
August 29, 2008, 08:19 PM
So, the carrying of a handgun in your home or on your property is not against the law.

Thank you,Tom.Hopefully, that settles the matter for good.

RecoilRob
August 29, 2008, 10:25 PM
Hmmm.....subsection 'e' says that nothing is stopping you from carrying the gun. But....'g' says if you are following 'e' you must have it unloaded and in a locked case. At least that is the way I read the stupid 'laws'.

Where does it say that you can carry it loaded on your land? Maybe there is more to the statutes but I'm not seeing the PRNJ allowing you to defend yourself with the statutes posted above.

Duke Junior
August 29, 2008, 11:58 PM
Where does it say that you can carry it loaded on your land? Maybe there is more to the statutes but I'm not seeing the PRNJ allowing you to defend yourself with the statutes posted above.

Where does "e" say you can't carry it loaded?"g" is taking it off your property.
The PRNJ is difficult,but it has not reached the state of Nazi Germany,1938.
The paranoia is endless.Tom,please assist.:D

e. Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, any FIREARM, or from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair. For the purposes of this section, a place of business shall be deemed to be a fixed location.

Note the comma after the word FIREARM.

NOW,when we move to "g" it has to be unloaded.But this is OFF the property:

g. All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the AUTOMOBILE in which it is being transported, and in the course of TRAVEL shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

Tom488
August 30, 2008, 12:46 AM
Thank you,Tom.Hopefully, that settles the matter for good.
Doubt it. See above :D

The paranoia is endless.Tom,please assist.
I'll give it a shot...

Where does it say that you can carry it loaded on your land?
Rob, you're slipping down the slope of, "it's only legal if it says it is". That's now how the law works. If it's not explicitly illegal, then it's implicitly legal.

The law governing unlawful possession of weapons is 2C:39-5. As it relates to handguns, 2C:39-5 makes no distinction between loaded or unloaded - it's just illegal to possess without a permit to carry. Period, end of story.

But, 2C:39-6e says the law doesn't apply to you when on your own property. Therefore, if 2C:39-5 doesn't apply, there's nothing that says carrying a loaded handgun is illegal. And, if nothing declares an act as illegal, it's therefore legal.

To take it from another angle... where does it say it's legal to keep a firearm loaded in your house? It doesn't say that, does it? Do you think that cocked-and-locked 1911 in your nightstand is illegal? Of course not. Because possession of a loaded handgun is legal, right? 2C:39-6e makes it so, by declaring 2C:39-5 as inapplicable to that situation. So why wouldn't the same apply to possessing on your property, and not just in your residence?

Duke Junior
August 30, 2008, 12:56 AM
I'll give it a shot...

Right on the target as usual.
Thank you,Tom.Perhaps now,you have finally put this baby to sleep.:)

RecoilRob
August 30, 2008, 01:14 AM
Ok....I just read, re-read and re-re-reread the statutes, with the intent of seeing it the way you are arguing....and I see it now. Yes, I think you could argue that you are right.

But, if you should run afoul of some 'authority' who might not be so literate as to be able to discern the gibberish written above, and who has a personal prejudice to armed Citizens, I see a LOT of money going to an Attorney trying to convince a basically illiterate jury of what it really means. Best of luck to you, my friend!

We here in your neighbor PA don't have nearly this much legaleeze giving the unscrupulous the ability to ruin your life, because they don't like what you are doing and the 'Law' is so convoluted that it is difficult to decipher. Here....'shall not be questioned' says all we need. I'm amazed at the people who haven't fled NJ yet....before they build the wall and you won't be ABLE to get out!

Duke Junior
August 30, 2008, 02:48 AM
Rob,I understand completely your frustration with New Jersey.This is one of the most difficult states in the country to live in.Its mob,union, left wing political controlled, to the point that you can't even pump your own gas.
But the OP,being a responsible Dad,simply wants to being able to protect his wife,children and home in a lawful manner.And the Statutes,no matter how convoluted they are written clearly give him the ability to do that WITHIN the confines of his property boundaries.I think Tom and myself have demonstrated that.
As the OP says:

Excellent Duke, thanks. This is very important for me as one never really knows when a threat may come calling. My pistol is of no use locked up in the safe if I'm at the other end of the property and notice someone breaking into the house with my wife and 3 daughters in it.

This is his first concern.I believe he'll worry about any legal mumbo-jumbo after the fact, if he needs to defend their lives.
I don't live in New Jersey and never will.But sometimes circumstances force us into situations and surroundings over which we have little or no control.

Tom488
August 30, 2008, 06:37 PM
But, if you should run afoul of some 'authority' who might not be so literate as to be able to discern the gibberish written above
Oh, no doubt about that at all. My neighbor had a conversation with a local officer once, and asked if he could carry a pistol while on his property. "I'd lock you up if I saw you" was the response he got. A friendly visit with his chief set the record straight, as the chief agreed it was "within the bounds of the law, as written" (he couldn't bring himself to say "legal" - something that both amused and disappointed me), but sure - my neighbor could have found himself in cuffs due to the ignorance of one charged with upholding the law.

And that's not something that NJ has an exclusive lock on, either... just look at the Dickson City incident in your fine state. You even have state constitutional protections, and someone still got arrested (and quickly "un-arrested", but only because he knew more about the law than the officers).

before they build the wall and you won't be ABLE to get out!
Oh, I'm not worried about that.... I drive a big truck. That wall don't stand no chance! :evil:

camxrr
September 1, 2008, 09:24 PM
Duke, Tom,

that definately settles it. thank you both for the clarification and statute breakdown. I feel better, my mind is at ease knowing i can carry on my property.

Ironic, I was more worried about a LEO spotting me carrying on my land more than I was about a violent criminal tresspassing. That is insane.


Thanks Gentlemen.

Duke Junior
September 1, 2008, 11:01 PM
Your welcome,cam.
There is some justice,even in New Jersey.
And Tom,I'm glad you got that big truck!:D

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