Extended magazine Pros/Cons


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Chilean
August 26, 2008, 10:25 PM
Hi guys, I want to hear your ideas about it

Thanks

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Milkmaster
August 26, 2008, 10:31 PM
pros...more capacity

cons... too much added weight

Both depend on priorities. Home defense may make the capacity more important. Carrying the gun through the woods all day may make the weight a bigger problem. Both pros and cons can be reversed depending on the intended use etc...

DaleCooper51
August 26, 2008, 10:32 PM
It gives you more shells, but even extended magazines run dry.

It also changes the balance and handling characteristics of the gun which could be good or bad.

Aftermarket extensions and clamps make taking the gun apart to clean more difficult.

Learn to run the gun and the extra magazine capacity won't matter so much.

shevrock
August 26, 2008, 10:36 PM
Depends on the gun. Oh all of the above apply. but if your using a semi,well it's almost a given.

Calhoun321
August 26, 2008, 11:03 PM
I used to use 3 shot extensions, now I have cut back to 1 and 2 shot extensions to avoid the use of a clamp that makes disassembly harder.

VegasOPM
August 26, 2008, 11:08 PM
I use a factory length mag (5+1) for my HD shotgun- along with a shell holder on the stock, and a +5 for my USPSA shotgun (10+1). If you think that you'll need to shoot through 6 rounds of 00 without a quiet couple of seconds to reload, in an HD situation- you should really think about an AR with a C-Mag. :uhoh:

edit: But they look cool.

TehK1w1
August 26, 2008, 11:23 PM
On the 870 Express series shotguns the mag extension requires modifying the mag tube, and once you modify it the factory cap will unscrew under recoil if you reinstall it.

MAX100
August 26, 2008, 11:24 PM
The pros out weights the cons. You will fight with what ammo you have in and on the gun. I wouldn't want over a 8+1 tube ext on a defensive shotgun. Past that you are adding to much forward weight and length.

The Military 590A1 is a 8+1 cap shotgun


GC

Jeff F
August 27, 2008, 12:01 AM
One of my HD guns has a +3 and the other has a +2 on them. Both are loaded with buckshot with 5 slugs in a butt cuff. If I have to grab one and hit the door real fast I don't want to have to worry about grabbing extra ammo on the way out. If 7 or 8 rounds of buck and 5 slugs don't get it done then I'm probably screwed anyways.

On another note, if you are carrying a shotgun with an extended magazine out in the field hunting with it, theres nothing that says you have to load it up all the way.

mtngunr
August 27, 2008, 01:15 AM
I have a WC/ST extension for my 870P....tried several times to like it....no soap...destroys what otherwise is a trim/fast-handling gun....four rounds of 12ga should be enough...to paraphrase Bill Jordan regarding speedloading a revolver, if you haven't solved your problem with the first six rounds, what makes you think things will get better with another six? or two?

Calhoun321
August 27, 2008, 07:57 AM
Rem 870 mag extensions will not unscrew under recoil. I have shot to many rounds to believe this for a second. If it is evan a remote possibility, then simply check it periodically. It isn't going to happen with just a few shots.

MAKster
August 27, 2008, 09:36 AM
What he was saying was if you go back to using the standard length mag tube after grinding off the dimples on your Express the mag cap can come loose over time. The dimples hold in the spring retainer which keeps the mag cap tight on the Expresses. You can remedy this by using the Wingmaster style spring retainer and mag cap.

Omaha-BeenGlockin
August 27, 2008, 01:33 PM
Just buy the 7-shot Express---no dimples.

MAX100
August 27, 2008, 01:50 PM
7 shotgun Express - detent ball setup on the barrel ring lug.


GC

rantingredneck
August 27, 2008, 01:51 PM
The dimples hold in the spring retainer which keeps the mag cap tight on the Expresses. You can remedy this by using the Wingmaster style spring retainer and mag cap.

Actually you'd still need a barrel with a ball detente style cap retainer or it will still unscrew. Best bet is do the above and get a proper barrel to mate with that system or stick with the plastic toothy mag spring retainer. Without the dimples you have to be careful unscrewing the cap, but the plastic teeth will still hold the mag cap in place.

To the OP,

My 870 currently has a +2 extension, my 11-87 currently has a +3 extension and my 500 is of course unextended 5+1. I'm of the "I want all the ammo I can possibly have" school of thought on this. HD shotgun in my case will be deployed within the confines of my home, likely from the doorway of my bedroom. Weight is not a factor.

All of these guns also see field use and for those purposes the capacities get converted back to normal.

Landlocked Pirate
August 27, 2008, 02:57 PM
This is just personal preference, of course, but I recently replaced the barrel and magazine assembly on my Mossberg 500 in order to change it from a 20" 8-shot to a 18.5" 6-shot. It now feels MUCH quicker and handier, and I like it a lot better.

foghornl
August 27, 2008, 03:26 PM
I have a Maverick 88 and a Mossberg 500, both 5+1. I tried a Shooting Budd's "Security Model Maverick" 7+1, and with that longer mag tube fully loaded, it felt front-heavy and unwieldy to me.

Your Mileage Will Vary.

Calhoun321
August 27, 2008, 10:36 PM
FWIW, I have never used any type of mag spring retainer in a shotgun with an extension and have never had a problem, nor have I used one when returning to the standard configuration for hunting. I simply haven't had any problems. I don't believe the mag spring retainers have much, if anything, to do with preventing the mag cap from unscrewing. If someone has had a problem, perhaps the mag cap simply wasn't tight to begin with.

MAKster
August 28, 2008, 10:20 AM
rantingredneck- Say I have a 7 shot Express HD model and wanted to take the extended tube off to shoot trap for example. Would I have to buy a 28" wingmaster barrel since the 28" Express barrels do not have the ball detent? Also, Remington sells a universal mag cap that they claim works on all models. Would this solve this problem?

rantingredneck
August 28, 2008, 10:48 AM
The universal mag cap is meant to either engage the ball detent in the barrel ring or the plastic mag spring retainer used with the dimpled express's. You'd have to have either of those in place to work with it, but yes it will solve the problem given one or the other of those setups.

IIRC, there are also some express finished 28" accessory barrels sold that have the ball detent in place.

Fred Fuller
August 28, 2008, 11:10 AM
Expresses were made for a goodly number of years with the barrel ring detent in place, just like Wingmasters or Police guns.

For a bit after the shift to the dimpled magazine tube setup, the holes still appeared in the barrel ring on Expresses, but there were no springs or detents installed at the factory (they can be installed aftermarket however).

Eventually the shift in Expresses to the dimpled magazine retention system was complete, and no holes were drilled in the barrel rings any more.

The 18" barrels for the Express guns that come with factory magazine extensions still have barrel ring detents.

All the above is mostly OT, but still relevant for those considering magazine extensions for factory 870s that appeared without them. If you start unscrewing the magazine cap on a used 870 Express and hear a clack clack clack resonating therefrom, you've discovered an Express gun with magazine dimples. If you have your heart set on a magazine extension, my advice is to save yourself trouble and look for an older Express that is not blessed with dimples. If nothing but that particular gun will do, then have at it- my advice is to drill the dimples out completely as described on these pages before. That means jury-rigging the magazine cap if you go back to the normal sized magazine. At this point in my life I'd rather do without all the drama, and I just take a pass on newer Express guns if someone looking for one has just gotta gotta have a magazine extension. But that's just me, I'm old and tired. All you exciteable boys have lots more nrg and stuff.

Me, I'd as soon do without. Costs less, doesn't weigh the gun down up front as much, and no shotgun magazine is ever big enough anyway.

hth,

lpl

rantingredneck
August 28, 2008, 11:35 AM
Then there's always the teflon plumber's tape solution :D.

no shotgun magazine is ever big enough anyway

Unfortunately very true.

ltetmhs
August 28, 2008, 07:21 PM
I wish the DNR would let me hunt ducks with 9 shells:rolleyes:

StealthyBlagga
August 28, 2008, 07:38 PM
The more shells, the merrier. If you are worried about balance in a personal defense situation you are REALLY not focussed enough on the problem at hand. Here's mine, set up for 3-gun:

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg34/stealthyblagga/3-Gun870-wall.jpg

loosecannon
August 28, 2008, 08:25 PM
I consider mag extensions to be an after thought and prefer the long style factory mag tube found in Win Defender, some Mossbergs, etc. On an 870P with factory installed extension, the extra rds caused shells to jump past the restricter. This was fixed under warranty. The 870 arrangement appears fragile. I had a well known after market extension that caused malfunctions that did not occur with it off the gun(870).

Once I left an extended mag loaded with Win l.e. buckshot and discovered that the extra pressure had caused 3 of the shells to deform, and these would not chamber.

Also, the extended mags mess up the gun's balance and handling for me. One good point is that 5-6 shells can be in the mag and the spring is still not under full compression.

If you use the big long mag tube, I suggest that you give it some extra scrutiny.

Loosecannon

ccsniper
August 28, 2008, 08:30 PM
i made my own extension. bought all the parts at a local hardware store, just got a longer spring, one inch tube and one inch nut, no permanant damage to my franchi fieldmaster

MAX100
August 28, 2008, 08:37 PM
ccsniper:

I made my own extension. bought all the parts at a local hardware store, just got a longer spring, one inch tube and one inch nut, no permanant damage to my franchi fieldmaster


Post a picture if you have one I would like to see it.



GC

Joe Mamma
August 28, 2008, 09:07 PM
One of the cons: the magazine follower can get stuck at the joint/seam where the extended magazine tube and "main" magazine tub meet. A lot of that depends on the magazine follower you use. One with a sharp edge is much more likely to get stuck.

Obviously, if it gets stuck, it's not permanent. But, that slight hesitation (maybe only a fraction of a second) can cause a failure to feed and someone thinking they a chambered a round when they didn't.

Joe Mamma

rbernie
August 28, 2008, 09:26 PM
If you are worried about balance in a personal defense situation you are REALLY not focussed enough on the problem at hand.StealthyBlagga - please explain this.

Dave McCracken
August 28, 2008, 09:34 PM
A couple things....

First, if any extension is considered for a defensive shotgun, keep it 3 shots and under. The long extensions add too much weight for quick handling.

I handled and shot an 1100, 28" barrel and 10 shot capacity. The thing handled like a snow shovel with a pig on it. Owner of said was big enough for me to hide behind.

Here's a quick test. After ensuring your shotgun is unloaded, mount it and hold that position for a couple minutes.

Go ahead, I'll just wait here....

Howja do? If things started getting shaky under two minutes, maybe you need to do some curls, or maybe your shotgun needs a good weight reduction program. Or both...

One of my "Serious" 870 has a two shot extension, been there since about 1980. The other has a 3 shot. Both are clamped.

The one with the Side Saddle weighs around 9 lbs. And yes, I can do two minutes with it without the shakes.

Both, while handling well, are a bit slower to swing than a standard 870,which is like greased lightning for me after decades of use.

Frankenstein stands on house duty these days, stoked with 4 buck and sans bellnswhistles. It handles like the bird gun it is. The chances of needing more beans in the wheel than the 4 rounds in the mag are slim, but there's more nearby if needed.

I can reload pretty fast.

No matter how many rounds your pet shotgun holds, everyone needs to know how to run it.

Know your weapon the way your tongue knows your teeth.

Mag extensions on shotguns are like dropping a Hemi into your family ride. You may not need all that and there's a downside.

Calhoun321
August 28, 2008, 10:26 PM
I changed from a +3 to a +1 extension to eliminate the need for a clamp. Many people say a +2 is safe without a clamp, but I don't know. I have heard it said that the stamped metal clamps can actually push the magazine slightly out of alignment and thereby weaken the whole apparatus.

There is a huge difference IMHO in the quality of the Wilson extensions versus brands such as Tac Star and Choate, with Wilson being far superior.

Back to the issue of mag caps. I just took a look at my 870 express and see how the original mag spring retainer interfaced with the inside of the mag cap. It is at best a weak system.

I drilled the dimples out of my 870 and go back and forth between an extension and a regular mag cap. I have never had the cap unscrew itself. If the cap could unscrew itself, so could the mag extensions that replace them. I guess one could put the mag cap on without adequately snugging it up and have it work its way off after a number of rounds are fired. However, if you tighten it down good it should be trouble free for many rounds IMHO. I don't know about everyone else, but I just naturally check the mag cap for tightness every 25-50 rounds as if it is part of the manual of arms.

loosecannon
August 29, 2008, 02:45 AM
A good solution here is to slip a tight fitting O-ring over the mag tube and then screw the cap down against the ring with the result being a triple whammy tight fit.

Never use a tool to tighten a mag cap because excessive torque is the result.

Loosecannon

rantingredneck
August 29, 2008, 08:29 AM
I drilled the dimples out of my 870 and go back and forth between an extension and a regular mag cap. I have never had the cap unscrew itself. If the cap could unscrew itself, so could the mag extensions that replace them. I guess one could put the mag cap on without adequately snugging it up and have it work its way off after a number of rounds are fired.

This is true if all things are equal in the setup. Meaning you are using the same short barrel. Remington 18" and 20" Express barrels typically have the ball detente. Remington Express 28" barrels typically do not. There-in lies the rub. Not having the ball detente to hold the mag cap in place means that when you swap barrels for the clay range or dove field you better keep a check on that mag cap. I've never had one unscrew either, but that's not to say it won't happen. I'm not exactly sure I want to find out what happens when you have a loose barrel and the gun is fired.

StealthyBlagga
August 29, 2008, 10:49 AM
I'll expand on my comment about balance.

Balance is certainly important on a hunting or clay gun, as it affects how the gun swings and thus your ability to properly follow through. Weight and balance may also be a concern for slightly-built individuals where every ounce counts. However, in a gunfight - when you are in immediate peril of being killed - I really don't think the extra weight of one or two shells (what, 3oz ?) plus a slightly longer tube (another oz) is going to be noticed. Sure, the extra length may be an issue in some cases (thats why my preferred home defense gun is a pistol), but the weight concern is probably overstated. IMHO, the extra couple of shots more than compensate for the extra bulk/weight. As someone else wisely commented, you are going to fight with the ammo on board the gun... if I wanted to reduce weight, I'd reduce the number of rounds on the sidesaddle or buttstock cuff, and put them in the mag tube instead. Oh, and any extra weight goes directly into reducing the felt recoil.

I shoot 3-gun, where speed of engagement of multiple targets is critical (presumably the prime rational for light weight), and often we have to maneuver in tight spaces/around barricades. I use an even longer gun and don't find it a handicap:

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg34/stealthyblagga/3-GunShotgun.jpg

The point made above about holding the gun on an intruder is a good one, but I would prefer having the extra rounds and finding a way to keep on target without exhaustion (drop the gun to the underarm, prop it on a support, whatever).

StealthyBlagga
August 29, 2008, 10:54 AM
Oh, and the worry about barrel clamps is grossly overstated in my experience. Even with slugs, I have not found the barrel clamp to affect my 50yd zero. With shot, I'm sure you would not notice. Even then, a lot of guys shoot 3-gun with 10+1 or longer tubes without a clamp and without a problem.

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