Are you pro-gun but with close friends who are gun-ignorant?


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jakemccoy
August 26, 2008, 11:21 PM
One of my good friends is not pro-gun. He's not anti-gun either. He just hasn’t thought about gun ownership much.

He told me a story about how he had a home “disturbance” one night. He has a wife and two kids. He responded to the disturbance by yelling from bed “Get out of my house” and by walking through the halls to check things out. The disturbance turned out to be nothing; something fell in the bathroom. He seemed to take comfort in the fact that the cops came within about three minutes. Nevertheless, his response was obviously dumb. Again though, we’re talking about somebody who hasn’t thought about gun ownership much because he hasn’t experienced much violence.

I just couldn’t help but feel like he was less of a man for not logically stepping through his mind what would have happened if that disturbance had actually been a home invader.

Have any of you been affected by gun ownership in such a way that you suddenly look at close friends differently?

I’m not asking advice about how to approach my friend. That’s another thread and an issue I have under control. I just wanted to get some response to my specific question here.

EDIT: My friend lives in a suburb of Dallas, TX.

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Duke Junior
August 26, 2008, 11:33 PM
One of my close friends was somewhat anti until recently.
He rented a mini warehouse in a somewhat shaky part of his city and while working late,noticed rather nefarious characters walking and driving by.
He asked my advice.I suggested a good solid revolver since he is a novice.He now owns a used Smith Model 19 which should serve him well.
He hasn't got a carry license yet but I feel that will quickly follow.Another on the fence guy is now with us.
I'm proud of him and his more realistic attitude.

Just Jim
August 26, 2008, 11:38 PM
Sorry, but at my age I learned long ago that I don't need any liberal friends. Especially those that won't defend their own families. The values that people develope will tell you the type of friends they will be. If they won't defend their own then how could you ever depend on them for help??

jj

jstalford
August 26, 2008, 11:40 PM
I have always been pro (although not as much as some on here), but recently have become more actively pro. I just recently was up all night trying to convince to anti friends. I got one to concede that shotguns and rifles are OK. He still is anti handgun though. The other I made no progress with. We had all been drinking though, so I may have been able to make a more cohesive argument than I did.

Zedo
August 26, 2008, 11:43 PM
Sorry, but at my age I learned long ago that I don't need any liberal friends. Especially those that won't defend their own families. The values that people develope will tell you the type of friends they will be. If they won't defend their own then how could you ever depend on them for help??

Yeah, well . . . most of my colleagues are a little bit left of Karl Marx. Highly educated, we know that "develop" isn't spelled with an "e" on the end -- except in French.

Many of us are veterans; some are disabled veterans. We not only "defend their own families," we actually defended your reactionary views and the United States of America in armed conflict.

You'll please excuse me for being marginally miffed at your fixated, reactionary, myopia. (I'll wait while you get your Webster's.)

Speaking of "gun ignorant" . . . before you start equating gun ownership with political views, you should meet some armed liberals. There are LOTS of us out there.

Dookie
August 26, 2008, 11:48 PM
I just couldn’t help but feel like he was less of a man for not logically stepping through his mind what would have happened if that disturbance had actually been a home invader.Less of a man because his first instinct was to protect his wife and two kids? He may not have gone about it the best way, but that does not make him wrong.

whatbrick
August 26, 2008, 11:52 PM
Not a one of my close friends are anti-gun. None of them are as adamant about it as I am, but they all enjoy shooting when they get the chance (usually on a range trip with me). Heck, one of my friend's father is a CHL instructor. Maybe that's why they're considered close friends since they know, understand, and accept all of me.

Well, most of me at least. :)

tasco 74
August 26, 2008, 11:56 PM
my son has some strange ideas about gun ownership.... i have no idea why ....... he is 37 yrs old and has 4 kids and wife to protect but somehow he's of the mind he needs no weapon for home protection................ when he was younger he shot my .357 magnum so he does what guns are about but he still has this frame of mind......

jakemccoy
August 26, 2008, 11:57 PM
.................

Green Lantern
August 26, 2008, 11:58 PM
Have any of you been affected by gun ownership in such a way that you suddenly look at close friends differently?

Yeah...makes me kinda worried for them somewhat, about how they'd react if the "S" really hit the fan. I imagine you felt the same way about your buddy that had a "less than tactically sound" method of dealing with a possible home invasion. ;)

Also makes me feel frustrated, knowing that I'm NOT a master marksmanship or SWAT officer but could still offer them the basic pointers of situational awareness and basic gun handling...

IF they'd be willing to LISTEN to me. Can't force them if they don't wanna, so just have to hope for the best and hope they change their minds eventually...

ETA - I have to say that the "less of a man" thing might be a bit harsh, maybe. Yes, if it HAD been a bad guy, he would have been defenseless and who-knows-what could have happened to his wife and kids after they took him out. If not armed, it would have been better to stay locked up with them, and prepared to fight if the BG made his way into their room...

Still....'least he didn't go hide under the bed or jump out the window and run away or something.

But then again - every man has a duty and responsibility to see to the SAFETY of their family. Any man who does not do so to the best of their ability (planning ahead to avoid bone-head moves like he made) is shirking said duty.

jakemccoy
August 27, 2008, 12:04 AM
It's hard to relay here the vibe of the conversation. He is smart (or even brilliant) and therefore has no excuse for not taking reasonable measures to protect his family. He locks his door but doesn't use his alarm system. There are a lot of men who are equally oblivious. Although I feel like I'm the same person, I'm realizing that my relatively recent pro-gun stance is really affecting how I perceive others.

Deer Hunter
August 27, 2008, 12:11 AM
I've got an uncle (from a side that I don't see much of) that, when he and his wife heard someone trying to break in, made his wife go down stairs first, while he followed.

abbyful
August 27, 2008, 12:18 AM
The last job I worked had very sheltered people. Most didn't like guns, but heck, they were scared of their own shadows! (They freaked out about things like raw eggs, licking a butter knife, etc.)

Here's the story of one girl: Her fiance was out of town, she's sleeping in the bedroom with her JRT dog and the dog growls in the direction of the bedroom door. She gets up to investigate, taking a pair of scissors with her! Found she had accidentally left the front door unlocked, which freaked her out a bit more, but searched the house and went back to bed. With the scissors under her pillow. She was always preaching anti-gun, but came to work the next day and told me that she wished she had a gun the night before.

Does your friend think differently of gun ownership now that he had this scare? (I'm surprised the cops got there in 3 minutes! When I've called the cops before, it's been 15-30 minutes response time.)

I personally haven't experience violence, but I'm a 115 pound women, and I know there's no way I could physically fight off a man attacking me. I prefer to be prepared rather than to wait for something bad to happen.

As far as me thinking differently about friends, most of my friends I already know where they stand, so it's not a surprise to me. Though the ones that dislike the ideas of gun ownership, I wonder what they think they would be able to do if someone came into their home and they needed to defend themselves.

jakemccoy
August 27, 2008, 12:28 AM
Does your friend think differently of gun ownership now that he had this scare? (I'm surprised the cops got there in 3 minutes! When I've called the cops before, it's been 15-30 minutes response time.)

I doubt he thinks much differently. Over the past year, I've been relaying stories about my experience at the range and training. My stories usually end with a bit of silence and then a change of subject. I don't push it. I just hope something sinks in along the way. Maybe his wife has something to do with his obliviousness, but you know how it is. Once a buddy gets married, you stop being so intrusive about his relationships and personal life, etc. So, I don't really know.

By the way, the 3 minutes was probably pure luck (i.e., a cop was probably just around the corner for whatever reason.)

Deanimator
August 27, 2008, 01:18 AM
I don't have any real personal friends who are anti-gun. The elderly friend of my boss whom he allows to trade stock options in the office is big time anti. A week or two ago, he said something to the effect of, "With this bad economy and rising unemployment, people are going to be breaking into our houses." I said, "No Bob, they're going to be breaking into YOUR house." His reply? "I don't keep money in the house." I told him that not having "enough" money really annoys some home invaders. He just shrugged it off, apparently preferring not to remember the doctor in Connecticut whose entire family was slaughtered. I was just kind enough NOT to ask him what he'd do if they abused his mentally handicapped daughter in front of him because he "didn't keep money in the house" and wanted him to go get some.

It always astonishes me to see people old enough to have been adults during WWII who seem not to comprehend that there are REALLY evil people in the world who not only don't mind hurting others, but absolutely enjoy it.

ColinthePilot
August 27, 2008, 01:23 AM
Wow, this thread reads like my life. I have lots of friends who are not anti, but aren't interested in owning guns. There are many others who own guns, but don't see a reason...correction, refuse to see a reason to carry one.
I had a big debate, over a lot of beer the other night with my roommate and another friend. Both own guns but I couldn't get them past the "what do you need that for hunting" thing. They're not anti, just ignorant of the constitution. That was actually the more disturbing part; we're all military Officers, and they don't even know the meaning of the Second Amendment to the Constitution we swore an oath to protect.

CRITGIT
August 27, 2008, 01:29 AM
Anti doesn't mean liberal. Some of my close friends are anti and they ain't even close to liberal. This is becoming a huge misnomer.
I have liberal friends who are pro gun but would rather avoid the pure form conception of gunners politics.
Lots of pro gun folks who can't buy the party line for reasons of rights beyond guns! LOTS!!!!!!!

CRITGIT

Deanimator
August 27, 2008, 01:45 AM
That was actually the more disturbing part; we're all military Officers, and they don't even know the meaning of the Second Amendment to the Constitution we swore an oath to protect.
When I was XO of a basic training company at Ft. Knox in the '80s, the XO of the company next door was anti-gun. I asked him why. He said "Because guns kill people." I looked at him like he'd lost his mind. I asked him, "What branch do you belong to?" "Field Artillery" was his reply. I then asked him, "What branch kills the most people on the battlefield?" "Field Artillery" was his reply. I then said, "So you belong to the the branch that kills the most people on the battlefield, but you don't like guns because they 'kill people'; how can you reconcile those two?" His reply, "I can't."

Soybomb
August 27, 2008, 01:49 AM
I've had gun ignorant friends but they are usually eventually converted ;)

Pat-inCO
August 27, 2008, 01:52 AM
Close friends? No way.

Just Jim
August 27, 2008, 02:02 AM
The question for people you are thinking about haveing for friends is "Will you take up arms to defend your family and way of life?" Ask it of both conservatives and liberals and register their replies.

The worst ones not only won't carry a gun to defend their own family but deny you the right to defend your home and family.

While home defense questions isn't the sole answer about friendship it certianly tells you about the foundation of their beliefs. Of course friendship doesn't include those that you would drink a beer with but those you would trust your families life with.

jj

chris in va
August 27, 2008, 02:15 AM
Yup, I know a guy that blatently open carries not only two handguns, but several knives and keeps a couple interesting things in his car.

Problem is, he's ignorant of the laws. Just yesterday I informed him open carry was legal in alcohol serving restaurants here, and he was quite surprised at that.:scrutiny: He thought you couldn't carry at all.

Maybe not a good thing I told him though.

evan price
August 27, 2008, 02:22 AM
I've got friends who are blatantly anti, even one who is ex-military who believes we should be allowed to carry samurai swords but not pistols because it is not honorable to own weapons that are easily concealed... any gun capable of being concealed under a trench coat should be banned, according to him, and everything else strictly registered, licensed and controlled. :scrutiny: I am not kidding. He's a sword guy. Not a sword user, a sword collector. And he's an Obama fanatic. Go figure.

RockyMtnTactical
August 27, 2008, 02:32 AM
I have anti-gun ignorant friends who I grew up with but I don't commonly associate with them. Not because they are not pro-gun, but because we have taken different paths that place us far apart. I am sure I could sway them if I had more time to speak with them and associate with them.

It doesn't help that I grew up in California... Glad to be out of there.

jakemccoy
August 27, 2008, 02:59 AM
I forgot to mention that my friend lives in a suburb of Dallas, TX.

owlhoot
August 27, 2008, 03:13 AM
There is a great difference between being friendly with a person and being friends with a person. We choose our friends. I have to know a person long enough to get to know who that person is, how he behaves, what he believes, his sense of honor, his integrety, and his intelligence.

I may know and like a great many people, but there are no more than half a dozen that I call my friend. I can't imagine why I would ever have a friend who is an "anti." Opposites don't attract when it comes to friendships.

D-Day
August 27, 2008, 04:14 AM
None of my close friends are really anti...except maybe one Canadian. She understands my use of them, and doesn't argue with me, so we're neutral and at peace on that issue. Most of my other friends don't have guns, or just don't care either way. No real antis.

Sackett
August 27, 2008, 05:05 AM
Well, here in 'silly-con' valley, I've made several friends from other countries and cultures. Most are neutral or barely interested in our gun culture.

On one end of the spectrum, I have a S.Korean friend who was mildly anti for yrs., until he got married and had a baby. About 1yr. after the baby came along I casually mentioned I had been at the range over the weekend; He perked up and showed a great deal of interest in learning to shoot (which reminds me, I need to set a date for his first range trip). I learned a lot about his priorities and integrity from this change in attitude. It was like he suddenly woke up and understood what it really means to be prepared to defend your family.

On the other end, I am getting to know a very nice and competent Chinese engineer, who has been here about 6yrs. (but had never heard of John Wayne --don't ask me how!). In a discussion about guns and their primary purpose in my life, he couldn't really get the picture. I asked what he would do if someone broke into his home- he said he couldn't imagine killing someone. I then asked, what about your 4yo. daughter? He said he would fight to the death, and sacrifice himself if he had to, but still didn't think citizens should have guns :confused: Now, keep in mind that this gentleman is ~45yo, and has been brainwashed by his communist govt. for 39 of those yrs. (not unlike some of our compatriots I guess). Still, I hope the discussion sparked something.

I've decided to take him under wing, not so much for guns, but to help him understand American principles of self-reliance and an independence from Govt., etc. He's reading Fahrenheit 451 now, and I'm already thinking about what's next to recommend...

cambeul41
August 27, 2008, 06:29 AM
My formerly Japanese wife is an engineer with many international contacts whom we take shooting. She reports no negative reactions from them. Possibly that might be because as an Asian female, it is harder for them to see her as threatening.

The last Chinese we took to the range was female and quite a good shot with a pistol. When we asked about that, she simply said, "Army training."

If you are wondering how one goes about becoming a "former Japanese." the answer is simple: by becoming a libertarian leaning, pistol packing, rifle shooting American.

Deanimator
August 27, 2008, 06:36 AM
My formerly Japanese wife is an engineer with many international contacts whom we take shooting. She reports no negative reactions from them. Possibly that might be because as an Asian female, it is harder for them to see her as threatening.
My best friend's wife is Korean. He met her when we were in Korea. She comes from a well to do family which formerly lived in Manchuria.

She'd never handled a gun before they met. She now has her own .40S&W Daewoo handgun and has shot trap with him.

bogie
August 27, 2008, 09:40 AM
When I was XO of a basic training company at Ft. Knox in the '80s

Hmmm... You may be one of the reasons my entire basic training unit got moved from Hard Knox down to Ft. Meadowmuffin... There we wuz, and the word came down that there were too many folks, and some had to go...

It always astonishes me to see people old enough to have been adults during WWII who seem not to comprehend that there are REALLY evil people in the world who not only don't mind hurting others, but absolutely enjoy it.

You wanna know what I think? I think that a large number of the Nazis were NOT sadistic scum... They were merely highly efficient bureaucrats. Who proceeded to "process."

Now, which is scarier? Personally, bureaucrats rank above clowns...

bowl443
August 27, 2008, 10:32 AM
Have any of you been affected by gun ownership in such a way that you suddenly look at close friends differently?


Ya, I got some close friends that have families with no guns in the house. They got baseball bats and think thats good enough. Most likely it isn't. They're not anti, they just aren't educated enough about guns to own one.

What kind of jerk would I be if I decided I didn't need some of my best friends because they don't have a gun in their house?

Life is too short to lose friends because of a disagreement on self/family defense. We'll just talk about the Cowboys instead..:)

Deanimator
August 27, 2008, 10:38 AM
You wanna know what I think? I think that a large number of the Nazis were NOT sadistic scum... They were merely highly efficient bureaucrats. Who proceeded to "process."
That's true, but there were more than enough just having a "good time".

Of course the guy to whom I was referring spent a certain amount of time in China and Korea immediately after the war. There was nothing "efficient" about Japanese atrocities. 99% of it was just "recreation", some of it like the Rape of Nanking, explicitly characterized by them as such. And that doesn't count the Red Army in Eastern Europe and Germany. They didn't quibble too much over whether their victims were Axis or Allied citizens, either.

If you lived through WWII and don't believe there's real evil in the world, you're mostly just sleepwalking through life. Either that, or you've dedicated your life to lying to yourself.

jackstinson
August 27, 2008, 10:43 AM
I honestly do not choose my friends by their stance on firearm ownership. Thus I have friends who I shoot with, friends who are not anti-gun, friends who don't even think about such topics, and friends who are not pro-gun. I also don't choose my friends by politics, religion, race, hair color, income, or the type of car they drive (Is he pro-hemi?).

Deanimator
August 27, 2008, 10:44 AM
They got baseball bats and think thats good enough.
Not too long ago, I watched an episode of "Cold Case Files" on A&E. There was this guy who tried to use a baseball bat to defend himself and his wife from a home invader. It took years, but they finally found the guy who murdered him, raped his wife and set their house on fire. She said she feels as though she herself died that night. But hey, at least the dead husband didn't "escalate the violence" by using a firearm to prevent his own death, his wife's rape and the arson...

Deanimator
August 27, 2008, 10:48 AM
I honestly do not choose my friends by their stance on firearm ownership.
I choose my friends largely on the basis of shared fundamental values. If you're an ignorant bigot or you think that people have a duty to allow themselves to be savagely exploited or murdered in order to preserve the safety of the person robbing, raping or murdering them, we don't have much of substance in common on which to base a relationship.

XD_fan
August 27, 2008, 11:02 AM
Yes I have some acquaintances who are fairly ignorant on the subject of guns. All my friends are people who hunt and fish.

Its fairly difficult to know my wife and I well without acquiring gun knowledge. She's a very avid shooter and actively recruits women into the sport. I hunt and shoot every chance I get. My standard response when questioned on why I have guns is to ask why someone wouldn't have a gun, at a minimum for self-defense.

bowl443
August 27, 2008, 11:30 AM
Not too long ago, I watched an episode of "Cold Case Files" on A&E. There was this guy who tried to use a baseball bat to defend himself and his wife from a home invader. It took years, but they finally found the guy who murdered him, raped his wife and set their house on fire. She said she feels as though she herself died that night. But hey, at least the dead husband didn't "escalate the violence" by using a firearm to prevent his own death, his wife's rape and the arson...

Are you saying that I shouldn't be friends with someone I grew up with because of this? I didn't say the guy was a bleeding liberal, I said he wasn't educated on the issue to be on either side.

I choose my friends largely on the basis of shared fundamental values.

What's fundamental to you isn't to others. Does he love his family? Is he a good friend? There's not a whole lot left to discuss that isn't covered by these two questions.

I'm glad I wasn't the guy in college, who shortly after meeting someone asked, "Do you believe that people have a duty to allow themselves to be savagely exploited or murdered in order to preserve the safety of the person robbing, raping or murdering them?"

I hear what you're saying, but my close friends were my friends before I had a decent opinion on alot of these issues. Should I be the guy that picks up a little reading material one day, realizes his friends are ignorant bigots, and leaves them all behind?

I believe that could be a case of one's halo slipping down around their neck.

Deanimator
August 27, 2008, 11:53 AM
Are you saying that I shouldn't be friends with someone I grew up with because of this? I didn't say the guy was a bleeding liberal, I said he wasn't educated on the issue to be on either side.
I'm telling you what my values are and how I pick my friends. You're free to pick your friends however you like. I try to associate with people with whom I have at least something in common.

aimy
August 27, 2008, 12:23 PM
I don't really have any close friends that are gun ignorant, but you can't choose your relatives.
After 30 years of marriage, I still have 2 sisters and a mother who wondered why in the heck I would marry someone who has lots of guns and why we always have to have at least one with us where ever we go. "Does he deal drugs or something?" "Gee, what kind of friends/enemies do you guys have that you need to have GUNS!" And later... "What if your kids got a hold of them?"
I never could convince them that target shooting can be a whole lot of fun and that bad guys ARE real.
I do have a couple of normal brothers though.

Gairwyn
August 27, 2008, 12:30 PM
Most if not all of our close friends are pro-gun. I do have a few friends though(my girlfriends from highschool) that either just don't care to find out about guns or think that they don't need guns. I remember one day getting a call from my one friend talking histerically about the fact that her Older brother purchased a handgun etc..etc.. I tried to make her understand the situations that her brother(beer truck driver) is in everyday but I don't know if I made any headway... Either way she goes I left open the invitation for me to teach her and her family if she wanted to know. I still haven't heard from her. Sigh

Noxx
August 27, 2008, 01:10 PM
Due to my in-laws association with the local theater, I have many friends and acquaintances who vary from gun-ignorant to rabidly anti-gun.

I take a pretty hands off stance to dealing with them on the subject. If they have honest questions, I answer with enthusiasm, if they have accusatory tirades, I let them know without rancor that I'm not available for discussion on the topic. A couple of the more "anti" types have actually converted to a live and let live stance after prolonged interaction with me, so I guess I'm out there representing the responsible gun owner properly, or as best I can anyway.

jakemccoy
August 27, 2008, 01:37 PM
Due to my in-laws association with the local theater, I have many friends and acquaintances who vary from gun-ignorant to rabidly anti-gun.

I take a pretty hands off stance to dealing with them on the subject. If they have honest questions, I answer with enthusiasm, if they have accusatory tirades, I let them know without rancor that I'm not available for discussion on the topic. A couple of the more "anti" types have actually converted to a live and let live stance after prolonged interaction with me, so I guess I'm out there representing the responsible gun owner properly, or as best I can anyway.

That's about the only feasible approach in my world as well. However, the main thing that irritates me is the fact that I may have friends who would support gun control without too much thought. For example, if there were some type of proposition for a gun ban, they might vote for it as a knee jerk reaction to emotional propaganda. Such an act would be a bit worse then verbally telling me to quit being a gun owner.

Arrogant Bastard
August 27, 2008, 02:18 PM
Have any of you been affected by gun ownership in such a way that you suddenly look at close friends differently?

No. But I've had some close friends look at gun owners differently after finding out that I am one.

Arrogant Bastard
August 27, 2008, 02:24 PM
Sorry, but at my age I learned long ago that I don't need any liberal friends.

I used to consider myself liberal, until I figured out i was really libertarian.

Regardless, I like having a spectrum of opinions represented among my friends. A party just isn't the same unless there's an animated discussion of politics or religion -- the only thing i ask of friends is the ability to disagree civilly.

Plus, I find I learn a lot more having a diverse crowd around.

Arrogant Bastard
August 27, 2008, 02:32 PM
I've got an uncle (from a side that I don't see much of) that, when he and his wife heard someone trying to break in, made his wife go down stairs first, while he followed.

I know a couple women I'd sent out first. Not because I'm a coward, but because i've seen them shoot, and I'd almost feel sorry for the BGs. The one person I'd call over in case of zombies is female.

tigre
August 27, 2008, 02:46 PM
Most of the people I hang out with are fellow grad students, and about half of them are at least somewhat anti (a few of the girls have said that they're scared of guns). Most of them are pretty liberal as well, and sometimes it gets to me, but it's fairly easy to ignore. It would be really great to have a bunch of friends who are more on my wavelength from a philosophical perspective, but you can't have everything, and I don't have much spare time to go find the few pro-gun, outdoorsy, atheist, libertarians in my area. At the moment it's good enough that my friends and acquaintances are science nerds and mostly non-religious.

Caliban
August 27, 2008, 02:46 PM
my friends- even my family- all seem downright afraid of guns. otherwise well-educated liberals are somehow bred with the notion that guns are dangerous by themselves and it is best to avoid them entirely, as owning one means you are far more likely to accidentally shoot yourself or someone you know than someone who is a threat to you.

it boggles my mind. but i guess it's what happens when you grow up in an environment that is genuinely very safe. you have never needed a weapon, and therefore you can't understand why you would. from an early age, we're taught that if someone ever approaches you with a weapon, you should do whatever they want- give them your money, anything you have- and beg for your life. i got this lecture over and over in school. better to give up a few bucks than risk death, leave chasing criminals to the cops.

it always made me sick to hear. but that's new york city for you.

Just Jim
August 27, 2008, 02:51 PM
I used to consider myself liberal, until I figured out i was really libertarian.

Regardless, I like having a spectrum of opinions represented among my friends. A party just isn't the same unless there's an animated discussion of politics or religion -- the only thing i ask of friends is the ability to disagree civilly.

Plus, I find I learn a lot more having a diverse crowd around.

I am a true conservative registered independant. I find little use in wasteing time with a diverse crowd, better to challenge myself trying to beat like minded people at games I like.

I am not interested with animated conversations with people just because they have a different point of view. I figure they will either grow up and take control of their lives or stay a child with a government mommy to take care of them.

Firearms are the teeth of our constitution, the tools to maintain our democracy and the insurance against personal harm. A good conservative spends a large part of their life to maintain knowledge in the use of firearms for all occasions.


jj

gezzer
August 27, 2008, 05:15 PM
Easy, I am 57 years old. I do not have friends who are anti-gun.

I have a few relatives and in-laws who are. I ignore them politely and when pressed, tell them off and right them off.

Life is to short to argue with brainwashed lib’s

ranger335v
August 27, 2008, 05:23 PM
"One of my good friends is not pro-gun. He's not anti-gun either. He just hasn’t thought about gun ownership much."

My casual friends fall into that group too but ALL of my REAL friends are more intelligent than any anti-gunners. I have a low tolerance for fools and just can't seem to make close friends with idiots, on any matter.

Sadly, quite a few of my casual friends are both pro-gun and shooters. Some of them are about as "gun illiterate" as any lib! I let them shoot on my little personal range and try to teach proper gun handling, quietly and by example if possible but more pointed when it's needed for safety. They learn.

acmax95
August 27, 2008, 06:20 PM
I grew up around guns as did most of my friends (I grew up in Western KY). I have friends on both sides of the aisle but I can't think of one who is really anti-gun.

I do have an aunt that does not care for guns though. A few years ago she gave me some money for Christmas (as did most of my family) and I used it to buy my first handgun. She was not too thrilled about that, and she was appalled that I was able to walk into the store and walk out with a new gun.

None of my friends carry though. My friends and family didn't want me to get my carry permit and don't understand why I need it, but some of them are coming around.

IndianaBoy
August 27, 2008, 06:27 PM
As time went on... I have wound up with a smaller circle of close friends.

People who are anti-gun are not a part of it. Not because they are anti-gun... but because generally, that mindset accompanies a broader set of principles which I inherently disagree with.

There are anti-gun people who I am 'friendly' with. No reason to not be civil. But I don't seek out their companionship.

gezzer
August 27, 2008, 06:30 PM
There are anti-gun people who I am 'friendly' with. No reason to not be civil. But I don't seek out their companionship.

I agree with That!!!!!!

snead888
August 27, 2008, 08:29 PM
Hey sackett, get ur friend to read Anthem by Ayn Rand. Very anti communist.

Agent-J
August 27, 2008, 10:09 PM
I am going through some really difficult times regarding this situation...

I'm 26, newly married, and we moved into my in-laws 2BR apartment attached to the main house. They are really fantastic people, but they are ignorant of guns and flat out scared of them for no real reason. I grew up with guns, recently purchased a new shotgun, and wanted to keep it in the house, but he said he would strongly prefer I didn't. The compromise we made is that I would keep them at my father's house (who is an ex-military gun loving republican... and 25 min away). It is really inconvenient as it is going away from the club I shoot at, but it works I guess.

I am now going for my CCW permit and by law the pistol/revolver must reside at the address listed on the permit. I am going to have to talk to my father in-law again and I really don't know what I am going to say. Now that I am married, I have a responsibility for someone other than myself and she is my responsibility. Home invasions are a regular scenario in NY, someone was robbed at gunpoint at the diner we all go to after church Sunday mornings, and it's a very dangerous world out there. Part of the reason we moved into her parents 2-BR was because our first apartment was overpriced and in a bad area. I personally had to call 911 because at 3am while playing guitar hero, I heard a car door shut, looked out the window, and there was a van in my driveway with 3 guys walking towards my front door. The state police responded in about 5 minutes (kudos to them), but that was a long 5 minutes. They ended up arresting the three guys as they WERE connected to other break ins.

Basically, the first thing I did was call the people with guns because someone with a gun might be trying to break into my house. Sorry, but I refuse to be the only guy at the party without a gun.

edit- oh, and since I've started the CCW process, It really amazes me how inconvenient gun laws are for responsible and law abiding citizens. If I was a criminal, I could have bought an illegal gun, committed a crime, had a trial, been convicted, and started serving my sentence in the time it has taken since I picked up my application a month ago to my scheduled appointment in 2 weeks JUST so I can submit the paperwork and start the 6 MONTH waiting game. /facepalm

Nolo
August 27, 2008, 10:10 PM
Are you pro-gun but with close friends who are gun-ignorant?
INDEED.
But who isn't?

Lamb of Gun
August 27, 2008, 10:13 PM
I have a friend, a bandmate, who is equally anti-gun as I am pro-gun. We regularly argue about it.

Our arguements get pretty intense but we have respect for eachother. He doesn't say anything stupid when I'm cleaning guns in front of him, talking to someone else about shooting, etc.

Most of the time we usually joke around about our parellels. He's a really good guy and we don't have any sort of friction because of it which is good because we play about 3 times a week.

Lookn4Brass
August 27, 2008, 11:14 PM
Yes, I've had alot of anti-gun or anti-"gun-in-the-house" friends. Some of them were hard cases to crack. Well, that is until after I take them shooting. I am nearly 40 years old, and have been shooting and studying it alot since I was six. (Been shooting with several people that I will NEVER go shooting with again - when I was younger.) I made the decision to let go of all the hype and showmanship, and concentrate on what works, because what I've witnessed about some gun owners is the way they carry themselves -too much attitude, arguments, and a lack of knowledge. That doesn't help convince people. I want to convert as many anti-gun or gun-afraid people as possible, without being a jerk about it.

So I politely ask some of them -"Would it be alright if I took you shooting with me? I'd like the privilege of showing you what alot of people don't get to learn. You'll be safer doing this with me than if we did alot of other things. Shooting is safer than driving, if you know what to do. It won't take up alot of your time. Oh, and I'll pay for the ammo this time. My treat."

After they get to hold a real gun, understand how they work, understand what ammo really is - and that a gun DOESN'T DO ANYTHING unless you have ammo in it - and it isn't at all as unpredictable as a hand grenade, they calm down alot. I show them several types of guns, so they understand the basic concept and can check one safely to see if it's loaded or not. Then after they get to bounce around a soda can or blow up a milk jug full of water and watch it splash everywhere, alot of them are hooked. Some are not, but they definitely see the world differently. It's written all over their face. And they don't freak out anymore at the sight of a gun. I can't explain it. It just works. Oh, and usually a few hours have passed, and they're still wanting to learn more! I'm sure some of the rest of us have had the same experience.

sm
August 27, 2008, 11:26 PM
No.
In fact I fired those related by blood to me, and only claim one person as family.

When you have had so called "close friends" and "family" cut you to the bone, put you in harm's way, and I do mean harms way in the most serious context, you do not associate , or even claim to be kin to them.

One cannot chose family, one can choose friends.
Choose wisely.

Reality is real and dead is forever.

Hoplophile
August 28, 2008, 12:36 AM
As a "liberal" who's about as hardcore pro-gun as they come, a lot of my friends are anti, though they're usually respectful about it. Many of them are of the opinion that "Well, I don't want one, but I support your right to have them". I'm usually respectful of their opinions as well. We don't really talk about it, though they will, at times, poke fun at me for it (in a friendly way), the same way you'd call a friend a hippie.

Though, most of my really, really close friends like guns.

kamagong
August 28, 2008, 12:28 PM
Most of my close friends are gun-ignorant. Like me, they have parents who immigrated and were not informed about the 2nd Amendment. They also did not grow up with guns in the house. But fortunately, none of them are anti-gun. I'm doing my best to educate them, but it's a bit difficult as I like to teach new shooters one-on-one. It seems that I'm getting through though, as I'm taking my best friend to a gunshop this Saturday to buy his very first firearm.

Sackett
August 28, 2008, 04:50 PM
Snead- Thanks for the tip. I've had several Ayn Rands on my own 'to read' list for a long while. I'll give it a try.

JTW Jr.
August 28, 2008, 09:56 PM
A co-worker who is anti-gun , and thinks you should need to have a very long waiting period , made a statement to the effect of " you see that home invasion on the news ? probably one of those tattoo'd types into guns and knives. "

I reached into my back pocket , pulled out my concealed permit , laid my Strider PT CC folder on top of it and rolled up my sleeve.

" Hmmm , I carry a gun & a knife and have tattoo's , small world eh ? Does that make me you think differently of me now ? "

She was dumbfounded , whereas before she was just dumb.

Recently she openly made a comment " We had a break in 2 doors down last night , I might need to borrow one of your guns ".

" Sorry , you need to go to store and buy your own , and after clearing the background check , and 72 hour wait for a handgun , you can have your own. Don't worry , if someone breaks in , just show em your sales receipt and have em come back in 72 hours , they will understand. "

Lewis130
August 29, 2008, 03:55 PM
My parents and sister are very anti-gun. They seem to think that anyone who owns or wants to own a gun must be intent on murder.

I don't think they really understand the concept of gun ownership for self defence/recreational shooting/hunting/collecting. I remember first mentioning I was thinking of buying a gun: they were horrified and disgusted, and looked like they going to estrange me. Of course, they're living in the Socialist Republic of Great Britain (I got out, thank God), where everyone has been won over to the idea that the country is going down the pan because sub three round capacity longarms are still legal to own after a lengthly licensing procedure, and must be banned! BANNED! It's like their minds are working in some different, incomprehensible way, and they think that gun are living thinking things of evil rather than a purely mechanical object.

Anyway, I'd better stop pouring out my misunderstood childhood. I...er...may have been drinking.

kurts_armory
August 29, 2008, 10:35 PM
if most of the anti gun people were just more educated on the subject, maybe they wouldn't be so stupid about this issue...
\

sm
August 29, 2008, 11:12 PM
One cannot change people, places and things, only a person can change themselves.

Most folks will not change playmates, playgrounds and playthings, until some tragic event occurs either to them, or someone extremley close to them.

Add, folks get this need for a sense of belonging to a community, and so desperately want to become matriculated into this community, they parrot what is said by others in the community they seek.

Pro Gun, Anti Gun, and Fence Sitters all do this.

Basically it takes when your butt won't bounce anymore, before folks choose to do something about themselves.

True.
While not actually "close friends" these persons were classmates in a English Lit class.
One instructed by a Anti, whom subscribed to how the UK was doing things.
This instructor was from the UK.

Oh needless to say she crammed her agenda at the class and I and others like me,crammed right back

[Infamous Fire Extinguisher Exploits were with this Instructor as some recall].

English Lit, various assignments, including attending Live Theatre.

Classmates and myself , Pro gun, with CCW, arrived early, parked in a better parking area for when this performance would end after dark.

Not the best part of town during the day, much worse at night.

Performance ends and the Antis were scared to death to walk out to vehicles.
They asked me, and mine if we would escort them out.

I suggested they flip a coin to see whom was going to dial 911 and whom was going to be raped first - and walked off.

Even some of my Pro Gun/ CCW classmates felt I was a bit too "rude and crude".
I cannot type what I said, still it goes along the lines of "to heck with them".


These Antis were royally "upset" with me.
They begged, pleaded and cried to Security, whom informed them, they were under contract for the Theatre, and could not walk them out.
Eventually one did...

Monday morning and these classmates were on campus and lit into me like white on rice.
I cannot type what all they said, still I will share there were tears, anger and fists upon my person...
Especially one.
She totally lost it.

She had hit her bottom that night, and realized that cell phone, and the instructions to comply to a rapist, mugger , or any other criminal was NOT what she wanted, and for darn sure she did NOT want to be part of the Anti Community.

She could not start firearm lessons, legal , COTUS, BoR, RKBA fast enough nor getting her a firearm and CCW fast enough.

Dale Carnegie was wrong.

Sometimes to make friends and influence enemies you have to tick them off and let them hit a bottom first!

Just one strategy and tactic I have used and will again.

.

scrat
August 29, 2008, 11:41 PM
im pro gun with everyone and if they dont like then fine. Leave the guns for me


:neener::neener:

SJ1
August 30, 2008, 11:55 AM
Owlhoot wrote: There is a great difference between being friendly with a person and being friends with a person. We choose our friends. I have to know a person long enough to get to know who that person is, how he behaves, what he believes, his sense of honor, his integrety, and his intelligence.

I may know and like a great many people, but there are no more than half a dozen that I call my friend. I can't imagine why I would ever have a friend who is an "anti." Opposites don't attract when it comes to friendships.

I agree. To me there is a clear difference between an acquaintance and a friend. I choose friends very, very carefully.

Someone who doesn't thoroughly understand the purpose of gun ownership, its rights and responsibilities, will have a frame of reference and values which differ from mine so much that I would be quite cautious.

All that said, there are many who use the word "friend" in a much different way. To me a friend is someone who lives by solid principles in every area of life. This sums it up for me: "If ye obey my commandments, then are ye my friends".

Thanks, Owlhoot, for your post. I appreciate it.

Aran
August 30, 2008, 06:17 PM
Not so much friends, though my fiancee's sister is a fresh transplant to Boulder, CO, and she's welcome to stay there as long as she likes (Oh boy the flipping out she did when she first was around me while OCing...) but family is another story.

My grandmother was born and raised in Warren, PA. If you're not familiar with it, it's your pretty typical small town (Though it's pretty decently sized) with a decently large hunting community. Her father was part of that community, and always had shotguns and rifles in the house.

Unfortunately she married a New York native and moved to his town, Jamestown (Okay, not really unfortunately, since my grandfather, who recently passed away, wasn't anti-gun in the least, he just had no interest in them, though he'd been around them all his life, especially his time in Japan during the Korean ...conflict, war, whatever we're calling it these days.) and really took on the whole NY mentality (She even likes Hillary Clinton.)

At any rate, she has no problems with my rifles, my shotgun, etc., because they're nice little range toys that if I decided to hunt with would work well (Well, except for my lousy aim, and lack of interest in hunting, I guess.)

The second I bought a pistol over .22LR (Which she had no issue with, seeing as how it was a range toy) and got my LTCF, everything changed. Guns were now the enemy, I was going to jail for carrying if anyone ever found out, and I was likely to get shot by police.


... Actually, I guess she's not really all that anti-gun, now that I think of it. She's anti-anything-that-could-cause-me-harm.

Now I need her to come visit me here in PA so I can take her out to the range, since she hasn't shot a gun since she was 12-13ish (Her older sister was the hunter of the family)

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