Summary of All Anti-Gun Arguments: What to do?


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jakemccoy
August 28, 2008, 07:40 PM
I was watching BET last night, and this program came up about issues affecting the black community. One issue was gun control. Here's the piece:

http://www.bet.com/onblast/?chan=4&id=2128&sub=2&itype=v&OBT_fname=bbv_was101_s3.flv

That piece sums up every ignorant statement about gun ownership and gun control. I know the background of some of the people in that video. At least one of them is on the higher side of the IQ scale. However, they're misguided.

I'd like to hear some ideas about how I can educate anti-rights people who haven't thought too much about the issues.

One approach I was thinking was to start on the Internet. I'd first set up a pro-rights video channel on Youtube. (I've already done this.) Then, I'll seek out the socialist-minded Internet forums and try to get people to watch the videos.

I'm looking for more suggestions. I’m doing stuff already, but I want to reach more people. I'm just not the type that can sit around peacefully in my own world when I know that a significant voting block can affect my rights without much thought on their part.

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highorder
August 28, 2008, 10:48 PM
That was awful, but insightful.

It's hard to look at things from another POV, especially if the other has no basis in fact or logical thought.

jakemccoy
August 28, 2008, 10:52 PM
To be clear, I am looking for activism ideas on how to approach people who view gun rights from a totally different perspective.

Yes, the video is hard to watch. I imagined myself debating with the animated comedian and then banging my head against the wall. However, I think I could persuade somebody like Tatyana Ali (girl from the Fresh Prince of Bel Air). She's in the video. Somebody like her would be worth at least a couple hundred converts if she became pro-gun suddenly.

I know this is a somewhat bizarre thread. It's just that the video has got me in a bit of a funk.

ArcherandShooter
August 31, 2008, 09:14 PM
I wish you luck on the you-tube endeavor, but I gotta tell you, the only way I have ever been able to change a mind on RKBA is in one-on-one conversations with folks who have come to trust and respect me in other areas of life that we share: church, work, neighborhood, family.

What I find when talking to MOST anti's is that they are more ignorant than evil. Some of the erroneous comments I've heard in the last month in the course of these conversations:

1. "no one hunts with a handgun. they are no good for that at all."

2. "assault weapons should be banned." My Q: "What's an assault weapon?" A. Fully automatic AK-47's. Me: "They are already so tightly controlled they might as well be banned." A. "Oh. I didn't know that".

3. "Obama is not anti-gun."

4. "Having a concealed handgun won't protect you from a drive-by shooting."

Calmly and politely and confidently (read, not antagonistically) giving facts a person doesn't know not only gives true information for false, but I have found that with ANYONE who has an open mind, it immediately leads to more questions. You see, what you've just done in such a case is let someone know that you are a source from which they can satisfy their curiosity about something of which they know very little.

Knowledge is the paving on the road to understanding and acceptance of guns as a normal part of life.

Loosedhorse
August 31, 2008, 10:04 PM
very few people want to be educated on emotional issues like gun-control/gun-rights. They have a gut feeling on what's right, and then accept the arguments ("Even if it saves only one child..." "Guns are involved in all gun violence, so to prevent gun violence..." etc.) that agree with their position.

IMO, if there was a way to reach gun-control types with a website or similar mass-media, the NRA would have already convinced everyone. Any site you assemble, no matter how ably, is likely to be dismissed as "NRA-sponsored propoganda."

I think a grass-roots approach is best, but it takes some courage, because you will not be able to remain anonymous, as you can at a website, blog, or forum. My advice:

1. Become an NRA-certified instructor in some discipline: home firearm safety, pistol shooting, etc.
2. Read a few books (like "Targeting Guns" by Gary Kleck) that go over the most common gun control arguments and expose their fallacies, or (like "Nation of Cowards" by Jeff Snyder) go over the liberty issues that gun control violates.
3. Next time you're with co-workers, friends, etc. and you hear an anti-gun comment ("These school shootings wouldn't happen if we could just ban guns."), don't let it pass: tell the joker (nicely) he's wrong, and why he's wrong.
4. At the end of any discussion that follows, let the commenter know you're a certified gun safety instructor, and you would LOVE to invite him/her to the range at a time of his/her choosing, at your expense.
5. When you hear an antigun statement on TV, call the station/write a letter/send an email--let them know they've got it wrong!

I apologize for my misassumptions (and I applaud you) if you're already doing these things. I have found that it is easiest to remain prejudiced (against gun-owners or any other group) if the target group remains "some people" out there that no one knows; if a gun-control advocate is politely confronted by persons he knows to be "good people" each time he/she makes an anti-gun-rights statement, that begins to take effect. One person at a time.

But it can be uncomfortable, and it requires tact--tact that I hope I'm slowly getting better at.

Good luck. You've got the right idea--reach out! Don't be discouraged: you might have to engage with 10 people to find one who will listen. But what a valuable one!

novaDAK
September 4, 2008, 11:57 AM
Wonder if those people on BET know that gun control was first implemented in the US as a way to keep freed slaves from having the means to start an uprising.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
September 4, 2008, 12:17 PM
The single best thing any of us can do to help gun rights is to take a kid shooting (or hunting). Then another kid. Then another, and so on. Second best thing we can do is vote in every thing ever put on the ballot. Third best thing is contribute to NRA, GOA, SAF, etc., financially. And 4th best thing is to write your congresscritters, both federal and state, and write letters to editors of newspapers.

It's sad that these morons at that channel who purport to speak for people of color are in favor of so-called "gun control" which has rascist roots and rascist components to this day.

And the guy who said getting a gun (presumably a handgun) is easier than getting a cab, must mean in every city except D.C. and Chicago, where the highest form of gun control is already in place (handgun bans). That IS what he was saying, right? Oh wait, no, no, my mistake - the strategy is not bans, but to sue gun makers for making legal products, because they have "deep pockets", like the man said. That's the only criteria for whom we should sue and why we should sue, right? - deep pockets. :scrutiny:

At least we know the truth about Obama now - as the man said: "Ban Guns - vote for Obama". Wonder if Obama accepts that "endorsement". I'll be anxiously awaiting his specific repudiation of that statement and that video, from his campaign. Won't hold my breath though. Sorry I veered a little into political...

mbt2001
September 4, 2008, 03:16 PM
That was mind control in action. Blame the guns, blame society, don't blame the people. MY goodness. Did you hear that one fella at the start, the "prison industrial complex". What does that have to do with guns?

As far as suing the makers, why don't they sue the hip hop stars that glorify this crud? I noticed NAZ was on there... Yeah, good one. I spend my time making Art of violence, but I do it because I need to stop the violence. That is crap. He knows it and I know it. Why don't we sue NIKE for making shoes so expensive that people will kill for them? Or any of the other "material" that is on the "reward" side of the equation or inducement side of the equation?

SDC
September 4, 2008, 03:34 PM
Agree with them; say "Alright, I can respect your decision that YOU'RE too stupid and dangerous to be trusted with a gun, but that doesn't mean that I am."

MarshallDodge
September 4, 2008, 04:06 PM
I think a youtube channel is a good idea.

One of the guys who is active on Utah Concealed Carry (www.UtahConcealedCarry.com) and OCDO (http://www.OpenCarry.org) created a channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/OpenCarry

They post videos of local activities and news as well as other pro-gun videos.

Zangetsu
September 4, 2008, 04:07 PM
What gets me is no one looks at why there's gang violence in the first place when they start touting the "benefits" of gun control. NOT ONCE in that whole clip did they say anything about drugs, which is why these dunces are willing to kill eachother in the first place, not once did they talk about how the glorified use of illegal substances fuels gangs with both the means and motivation to go to war with eachother, and not once did anyone take any responsibility for their actions. Blame the prison system for people going to jail, blame firearms companies for people stealing their products and shooting others, blame the NRA for people liking guns...it sickens me.

I really would like to know why we don't drop the puritanical act and the war on drugs already so these guys lose their major sources of income.

Cel
September 4, 2008, 05:11 PM
I can't even describe how angry I was watching this. More so than most on here will ever be. Why? I am black. This little segment was so steeped in ignorance that I wanted to throw my laptop. I don't understand how blacks are so quick to throw away their rights then want to complain about how long it took to get them and how they are still treated unfairly. I have lived and been to some bad neighborhoods and I was glad to have my LEGAL firearm to protect my household.

That idiot opportunist, Sharpton said "That we can't change the mentality"....That right there is the problem. If you can't change someone's mindset then how are you going to change their behavior. I have witnessed what a KNIFE can do and I can guarantee it was far worse than anything I have ever seen a gun do. What, the solution is to ban all guns so people can start using other weapons? I have seen what people can do WITHOUT a gun. How are we supposed to advocate disarming those who don't participate in criminal activities? This is the same mentality that has kept us in the dark for years. I was taught at a young age that if you want something then you have to go out and get it. I know blacks haven't historically had it easy. We still don't. But NO ONE has it easy if they want to give in to everything. Black, white, red...etc...

My father and other males in my family owned guns as well as most of the people in the neighborhood that I grew up in. I'm from a small town so there really wasn't much crime but the neighborhood I grew up in was mostly black. Was I running around shooting up everything? No. Was I out robbing people? No. Why? Because I knew my parents would kick my [non highroad colloquial term for buttocks] if I was caught doing any of that. Now I haven't been a saint, but personal responsiblity goes a long way in the world. I learned to be responsible and do the right thing. I've made plenty of mistakes but I went back to school and now I am two classes away from graduating. I am tired of people making excuses for our race.

What we fail to understand is that EVERYONE is affected by everything in this country. You can't say that blacks are being unfairly targeted when it comes to certain policies. Everyone is targeted when the chips are not in their favor. I'm sick of blacks trying to seperate themselves so much from the country that they fought so hard to get equality in. We earned and fought for those rights so we damn well better use them or lose them AGAIN. This is why I don't buy into the Democrat or Republican labels. Both are doing massive harm and it is up to the citizens of every color to take back this country and try their best to make America great.

taprackbang
September 4, 2008, 05:42 PM
What I find when talking to MOST anti's is that they are more ignorant than evil.

I would like to add to this that anti's are ignorant OF evil. They pretend evil doesn't exist and that evil affects all of us each day. Guns serve as fences.
We must have fences / boundaries or you would have chaos. And like the saying goes, "Stronger fences make better neighbors" could not be more true.
To be a humanist / socialist / Communist you must reject all notions of 'evil' and work for, what they call, 'the greater good.' (what ever that means.)
In other words, "The end justifies the means." All Commie countries resorted to mass murder for the 'common good.'

Good words from Cel, too.

Tarvis
September 4, 2008, 06:13 PM
First, you need to figure out exactly what they are suggesting. I heard on that video that guns in general should be banned, which seems odd considering that most gun crimes happen in large communities. I also heard on the video a very slanted and inaccurate depiction of the NRA and the Republican party, which should be clarified; they make it seem like the world is against them with is complete BS.

I think the best thing to do is go to gunfacts.info (http://gunfacts.info/) and either print off a page or two (takes a half hour to print the whole thing) or have a nay-sayer take a look at it and refute the sources they cite on every single page. Gunfacts.info has the answer to about every question or point a gun control advocate could possibly ask.

Also, remind the person that, as said in the clip, our country is built on legislation, be it good or bad; for the benefit of the majority or the minority. Legislation has in fact been passed banning guns (clinton ban) and was not renewed, nor did it effectively combat gun crime. Hand gun bans were in fact put in place and defeated by the federal supreme court (Heller) setting a precedence for any future legislation. Finally, the second amendment does in fact exist, despite the fact that most states add their own foot notes.

AndyC
September 4, 2008, 07:54 PM
We earned and fought for those rights so we damn well better use them or lose them AGAIN. This is why I don't buy into the Democrat or Republican labels. Both are doing massive harm and it is up to the citizens of every color to take back this country and try their best to make America great.
Well said, Cel

azhunter122
September 4, 2008, 08:09 PM
Gun's don't kill people, people kill people! lol that is the most funny thing I have heard in my life! :)

tinygnat219
September 4, 2008, 10:40 PM
One thing might be to have a real honest to goodness documentary produced about the history of gun-control laws. Let the documentary show how their racist origins and how the bigots in control of the NAN, NAACP, and the Rainbow Coalition use fear to justify their stance on Gun Control.

lamazza
September 4, 2008, 11:49 PM
I think black people should be very insulted. The way the 'black leaders' talk down to blacks like they are gullible morons is infuriating.

hso
September 4, 2008, 11:52 PM
Seems this one has drifted off down the predictable road.

Regardless, thanks to the OP and the folks who actually tried to come up with some ideas.

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