But he is a gooood boy...


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JackBurtonJr
August 28, 2008, 10:39 PM
Alternate Headline (http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080828/NEWS/80828002)... Another innocent teen merely trying to even the scales of social injustice injured by evil gun, says Brady spokesperson.

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Duke Junior
August 28, 2008, 10:48 PM
But he is a gooood boy...

Eagle Scout,sang in the choir,good to his mama,fell in with bad companions,lost his way,didn't mean to do it,probably provoked,police provocation,racial injustice,this isn't America,yada,yada,ad nauseum.
Please set me free.Amen.

highorder
August 28, 2008, 10:59 PM
Why take the cynical spin to the actual headline and a decent report?

This sort of reporting is good for us.

Aaryq
August 28, 2008, 11:06 PM
Because you have not News Story Ettiquette, I'll post it or you.

EAST STROUDSBURG - It's a night time shopper's nightmare. You buy groceries, go to your car, and someone tries to rob you at gunpoint.

Police say Joshua Eastman, 28, of East Stroudsburg was unloading groceries at his car shortly before 12:45 a.m. today when Reneau Jean Jacques, 17, of 77 Symphony Circle, East Stroudsburg, pointed a handgun at him and demanded that he hand over his money.

Eastman looked around for help or someone to yell to. The alleged robber continued to demand money. Eastman replied that he did not have any money - that he used a debit card to pay for his purchases.

Jacques became more threatening, pointing the gun and using a more menacing tone of voice.

Eastman then took out his wallet and pushed the door of his truck more open to put it between himself and the suspect. Jacques pointed his gun at Eastman's face.

Eastman dropped his wallet and started ducking down. Jacques fired a shot that went through the window of the door almost striking Eastman and causing flying glass from the car window to cut his face.

Eastman pulled out a handgun he was carrying and fell to the ground. He returned fire under the truck's door with his pistol while the teen continued to fire his weapon.

Eastman shot Jacques in the lower leg and foot. Then Eastman ran back toward the store as the teen fled towards Friendly's restaurant.

Jacques fled into a landscaped island of bushes and trees in the parking lot. Stroud Area Regional Police were on the scene almost immediately and found him hiding and trying to bury a handgun in the mulch. He originally claimed to be a victim before police determined he was likely the one who started the trouble.

"It appears to be an armed robbery that went badly for the suspect because he picked an armed customer," said Sgt. James Wielgus.

On Thursday afternoon, Jacques, using crutches and wearing a long hospital gown over hospital pants, sat with a numb look on his face during his preliminary arraignment in East Stroudsburg Magisterial District Judge Michael Muth’s courtroom. Jacques, a Shawnee Academy student with a prior juvenile record, spoke in a subdued tone when addressed by the judge.

Jacques is charged as an adult with attempted murder, robbery, aggravated assault, crimes committed with guns and illegal possession of a gun, all felonies, and reckless endangerment, a misdemeanor. He hung his head and sighed after the judge told him he could face up to 30 years in prison if convicted of the most serious charge, attempted murder.

Jacques was taken to Pocono Medical Center for treatment. Police detained two other youths for questioning. They were in a car, trying to flee the scene, according to witnesses and police.

JackBurtonJr
August 28, 2008, 11:48 PM
Why take the cynical spin to the actual headline and a decent report?

This sort of reporting is good for us.

Oh... I don't know... maybe because I am cynical.

Yes... this story was good. But it doesn't make up for the thousands that are slanted towards an anti-freedom position.

And if you can't poke fun at the media... then who can you poke fun at?

Jeff White
August 28, 2008, 11:54 PM
Poking fun at the media isn't on topic here. If you want to talk about the aspects of this story that are on topic, I'll leave this open. If not, I'll close it and you can poke fun at the media over at APS.

Jeff

Sackett
August 28, 2008, 11:56 PM
Cynical is fine. I'm cynical. And I'm jaded but...

I agree with hiorder- it's not every day you get a fair headline. We should be celebrating!

Chalk one up for the good guys huh? Actually, 2 if you count the article and the apparently justified use of a carry weapon.

Either way, thanks for a worthwhile post.

bobbarker
August 28, 2008, 11:58 PM
I love seeing Juveniles tried as adults for these serious crimes. If you want to act like an adult, and commit adult crimes, you're not going to Juvey bud, you're going to hard core, rooming with a 6'4'' man named "Leslie" prison.

Zedo
August 29, 2008, 12:33 AM
Jacques possession of the firearm is UNLAWFUL . . . and so, evidently, gun laws that would keep illegal firearms out of the hands of criminals don't work.

The "real crime" here would be if the state barred Eastman from RKBA and lawful self-defense with a handgun.

I'd like to see "violent gun crime" carry a mandatory life sentence. No parole, no time off for good behavior, no "judicial discretion" in sentencing.

LIFE -- as in the rest of yours if you commit a violent gun crime.

230RN
August 29, 2008, 12:48 AM
I was pleased to read such an apparently fair report.

Eastman pulled out a handgun he was carrying and fell to the ground. He returned fire under the truck's door with his pistol while the teen continued to fire his weapon.

But he missed the COG shot from under that truck door.

I take that back. It's not too High Road a remark. So you can't read it.

It's a good thing the acronym is inscrutable.

Dravur
August 29, 2008, 08:51 AM
I have to admit, this looks pretty even handed and fair. I saw no wild screechings about how guns are evil. The reporter seemed to cover the facts and didnt seem to put a spin on it anywhere.

Looks like a good shoot, a good report and was a nice read early in the morning.

#shooter
August 29, 2008, 09:07 AM
I'd much rather see "Alleged teen robber shot by Wal-Mart shopper" than "Man gunned down in Wal-Mart parking lot" any day. Looks like a good shoot and +s all around. An unbiased report of a sucessfull self-defense incident with a firearm is always welcome.

Omaney
August 29, 2008, 09:17 AM
The look on that youngster's face is classic..."Man, that dude shot back!"

larry starling
August 29, 2008, 09:35 AM
Guess the young guy got what was coming to him.....:evil:

Guns and more
August 29, 2008, 09:38 AM
Eagle Scout,sang in the choir,good to his mama,fell in with bad companions,lost his way,didn't mean to do it,probably provoked,police provocation,racial injustice,this isn't America,yada,yada,ad nauseum.
Please set me free.Amen.
You forgot "He was planning on going to college in the fall."

Cliff47
August 29, 2008, 09:45 AM
Yet another breakdown in the victim selection process...don't you love it when that happens??

RoadkingLarry
August 29, 2008, 09:46 AM
Guess the young guy got what was coming to him.....

Not really, now the tax payers have to support him for up to the next 30 years...

Apple a Day
August 29, 2008, 09:52 AM
Good reaction.
He took cover
He returned fire from cover
He targeted the BG's exposed parts
He hit his target
He egressed to a safer position and called authorities.

SCKimberFan
August 29, 2008, 09:57 AM
The more these stories are reported on, the more common CCW will become. I think most folks in this country are tired of being victims and are starting to fight back. The more we can promote defensive handgun usage, instead of lunatics going nuts, the better the "EVIL" guns look to the population as a whole. It then becomes a tool to defend yourself, no longer the "EVIL" gun.

BruceRDucer
August 29, 2008, 10:14 AM
/

One important piece of information that we will want to know, is How and Where the robber, Jacques (17 years old), acquired a gun.

Was it stolen, borrowed, or bought on the street?:)

JohnBT
August 29, 2008, 10:15 AM
www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080829/NEWS/808290345/-1/rss01

Suspect was a crime waiting to happen, neighbor thinks

"After being told by a reporter that the young man had been arrested, Calchera described Reneau's absentee parents and brushes with crime."

"Reneau's older brother, Garry, was jailed after he and three other men took an AK-47 rifle and robbed a gun store in Tannersville in 2005. They brutally beat the store owner with the rifle and stole 62 guns.

Calchera has lived across the street from the Jacques family for four years. She's seen police cars outside the house several times, as recently as a few months ago."

Bob F.
August 29, 2008, 10:19 AM
"Not really, now the tax payers have to support him for up to the next 30 years..."

(Haven't figured out the quote thing yet!)
We were probably supporting him anyway, and would have been for the rest of his life.

Apple's right: good tactics!

Claude Clay
August 29, 2008, 10:50 AM
where did he get the gun? rather than 'tell us and we will drop some of the charges' it should be 'dont tell us and we will push for the max at sentencing' cause you did not cooperate.

waterhouse
August 29, 2008, 11:04 AM
Glad the good guy got out of this safely.

(Haven't figured out the quote thing yet!)

Cut and paste the text you want to quote. Highlight the text. Click the icon on the far right of the toolbar (there will be a B for bold, I for italics, etc.) that looks like a cartoon "talking" bubble.

Or, cut and paste the text. In front of the text, add a "[QU"OTE]"
and after the text, add a "[/QU"OTE]" without any of the quotation marks.

Blofeld
August 29, 2008, 11:38 AM
Warms my heart.:)

V1K1NG0
August 29, 2008, 11:48 AM
So did the 17 yo start shooting because the victim dropped his wallet on the ground or was he making sure he didnt leave any witnessess? I've been told to throw your wallet away from you if someone is robbing you. Hmmmm

Happiness Is A Warm Gun
August 29, 2008, 12:15 PM
"It appears to be an armed robbery that went badly for the suspect because he picked an armed customer," said Sgt. James Wielgus.

I like this quote.

So how can you make a robbery "go bad for the suspect"?
Be armed yourself.

I think more and more of America is waking up to the idea that we need to protect ourselves.

Every time the "good guy" wins over the "perp" it brings more to the side of RKBA. The man who was robbed will likely tell friends, family, co-workers how a gun saved his life. People see the news story and think about crime in their neighborhood and reach conclusion they need to be armed also.

deaconkharma
August 29, 2008, 12:22 PM
230RN
Center Of Groin
This was an exceptional piece but what is even better is that not only did the victim/target check his surroundings before engaging, he kept calm and put the door more between them. this guy did everything right as far as I can tell. This was a good piece. +1 for the "good guys".

Yes that was a CWP "good guy" reference :)

Norinco982lover
August 29, 2008, 01:21 PM
Amazing story, good ending, victim was able to reach his gun even under fire. I want to know what kind of gun/holster the victim was using!

Blofeld
August 29, 2008, 01:26 PM
I'd like to know if he had training. As stated in previous posts, the guy did everything right.

Henry Bowman
August 29, 2008, 02:08 PM
"It appears to be an armed robbery that went badly for the suspect because he picked an armed customer," said Sgt. James Wielgus.
I like this quote also.
Not really, now the tax payers have to support him for up to the next 30 years...
I suspect he won't be there for 30 years, but even if so, the cost to society may very well be lower than the alternative.

CombatArmsUSAF
August 29, 2008, 02:36 PM
Good to see a positive story on concealed carry. It's a shame though that this kid didn't get what was really coming to him.

Larry E
August 29, 2008, 05:54 PM
Somewhere I read that a criminal is less expensive locked up with the taxpayer feeding and clothing him than if they're out committing crimes. Good work by the "victim" too.

One wonders when the poor robber's parental units begin whining and complaining about how it wasn't nice or fair that their poor baby got shot though. :cuss:

BruceRDucer
August 29, 2008, 06:04 PM
Hey Bob F!

The quoting puzzled me to. When you post, look for the yellow page that looks like a typed letter at the top of the menu as you post. Click that, and copy and past in BETWEEN the two words that say QUOTE.:)

ArfinGreebly
August 29, 2008, 06:20 PM
"Yellow page" = "cartoon speech bubble."

Text between two words . . . QUOTE =

Text between these two things.

:)

ArfinGreebly
August 29, 2008, 06:23 PM
Good to see self defense done right.

In addition to Apple's observations:

Used enough force to stop the attack.

doc2rn
August 29, 2008, 08:50 PM
Well done indeed!

akodo
August 29, 2008, 08:58 PM
"It appears to be an armed robbery that went badly for the suspect because he picked an armed customer," said Sgt. James Wielgus.

The thug fired a gun at the shopper, this should constitute attempted murder.

Oh, I see, the thug is so charged, but why would the the Sgt refer to an attempted murder as simply armed robbery? Kid started shooting as or before shopper shot back it seems. I'd definately call it armed robbery and attempted murder in that statement the sgt made

Griz44
August 29, 2008, 11:23 PM
Berreta says "Don't do the crime if ya can't do the time"
If he is old enough to use an adult weapon in an adult crime - and adult punishment is appropriate. 30 years for attempting to take someone's life sounds kinda of light....
The reporter did a good job. The headline was probably the work of an editor looking for some shock value to sell papers.

Officers'Wife
August 29, 2008, 11:27 PM
Sympathy for the criminal is an injustice to the victim.

.cheese.
August 29, 2008, 11:39 PM
I'm surrounded by these kinds of folks in my new "job". :(

It's interesting though otherwise and I'm learning a lot about the law.

Poor East Texan
August 29, 2008, 11:54 PM
Good story (not anti by any stretch).

Good job by the victim!

Just such a reason as a 9mm stoked with 12+1 rides in my truck. WAIT, I keep my money pouch right here... kapow!

Aran
August 30, 2008, 07:21 AM
I started a topic on this on another forum, mostly filled with... well, let's say anti-gun people.

Most of the replies were disparaging against me, because I used it as a basis for a comment about how I don't feel out of place carrying at WalMart, especially after this incident shows how the S can HTF anywhere, but one really stands out to me.

"Because yeah, having a shoot-out in a parking lot is a great idea"

The entire concept of self-defense was lost on this guy. It really made me sad.

Most of the people on that forum, sadly enough, also call themselves "conservatives" of some variety.

yokel
August 30, 2008, 08:10 AM
The most pertinent truth is that Americans as a people have at times too readily ignored and too little understood the presence of evil in the world.

Jamie C.
August 30, 2008, 10:26 AM
"Because yeah, having a shoot-out in a parking lot is a great idea"

My response to that would have been "No, a shoot-out in a parking lot is not a good idea, but it's a helluva lot better than just being on the receiving end of a shooting".


J.C.

Talonap
August 30, 2008, 11:19 AM
Aran,

What forum did you post on? Maybe some of us could, "visit", and help you out. ;)

Jeff White
August 30, 2008, 11:56 AM
What forum did you post on? Maybe some of us could, "visit", and help you out.

THR will not participate in any forum wars. It's not what we do here. Don't even think of posting the link here.

Talonap
August 30, 2008, 04:27 PM
Quote:
What forum did you post on? Maybe some of us could, "visit", and help you out.

THR will not participate in any forum wars. It's not what we do here. Don't even think of posting the link here.

Jeeez! Was not trying to start any, "Forum War". Nothing wrong with a little education. How about - send ME the information. That way THR would not have to be involved in educating the uninformed.

lechiffre
August 30, 2008, 05:53 PM
Berreta says "Don't do the crime if ya can't do the time"

as someone else here said:

baretta = http://dombosco.home.insightbb.com/baretta.jpg

beretta = http://modernfirearms.net/handguns/hg07-e.htm

Aran
August 30, 2008, 06:02 PM
Aran,

What forum did you post on? Maybe some of us could, "visit", and help you out.

Even without Jeff's ban on posting the link, I don't think that would be helpful. It's a no-holds-barred forum on a gaming site and nobody really gives a damn, especially when it's newcomers.

Frankly, I only post THERE to troll, since it's not just acceptable, it's almost encouraged, and it gets it out of my system so I can be less of a jerk elsewhere ;)

My response, however, was:

He was shot at and returned fire.

Would you have just stood there and done nothing?

Though he hasn't responded yet, and someone else replied reminding me he's from Denmark, so he really wouldn't have had any options available to him beyond run and hide and hope for the best.


Edit: Oops, re-skimmed the thread, I guess he DID respond, and I missed it.

His response:

1. You used it as an example to show it is good in general, hence your rebuttal is retarded.
2. He was lucky *shrugs* That doesn't really lend to the validity of carrying guns at walmart.
3. He started a fight with an armed robber. In the end the lost time and damaged way surpasses the value of his supposedly empty wallet.

I'm still trying to get the rolling of my eyes to stop.

JackBurtonJr
August 30, 2008, 06:11 PM
reminding me he's from Denmark

Reverse Danegeld. Dane willing to pay others to leave him alone.

Jamie C.
August 30, 2008, 06:12 PM
3. He started a fight with an armed robber.

Maybe I read it wrong, but it seems to me that it was the armed robber that started the fight.

A fight he couldn't finish.

I'm still trying to get the rolling of my eyes to stop.

Makes ya just wanna smack 'em 'til their eyes roll, doesn't it? :evil:



J.C.

Aran
August 30, 2008, 06:20 PM
Yeah it does.

Oh well, I'm not even violent enough for that. :p

koja48
August 30, 2008, 06:21 PM
Good guy followed a good plan, was armed & not a helpless victim . . . good guy survived, bad guy got caught. Good article . . . like to see more like this.

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