safe to shoot off 2 rb in one cylinder w/low powder charge?


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1858rem
August 29, 2008, 01:29 PM
anybody shot two rb out of one chamber before... was thinkin 22grain of 777 an 280grain projectile(combined weight of 2 454 ball) would be fun for some extra kick an shootin milk jugs full of water. but i have noticed once you load a bullet in the cylinder it is relatively easy to tap out through the nipple hole(w/the nipple removed) so would there be an excess of pressure? and they are already sized to the barrel when you ram them home,(cylinder miked at .445, i slugged the barrel and lands miked at .444 and grooves at .446).... had an idea if this worked, put first ball in and lube pill on top of it, then the next bullet to squish the lube out an fill the space in between the two bullets. has anybody tried this? i was recently told by scrat to look up a new idea cause its probably been tried.... but through google, and searching thr i havent found ANYTHING, and would like some suggestiones before i try something stupid again, like shooting smokeless out of my c&b lol:cool:

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Voodoochile
August 29, 2008, 10:17 PM
I've done it once years ago with my Dragoon.

If I remember right I used 30gr. FFFG Goex with 2 .457 143gr. ball, a pretty effective load at a short distance keeping both balls within a 1/4" from each other at 20 yards, but unless I was using it as a SD weapon it has very little purpose & a little bit more waste of lead than even a conical.

Being that the Dragoon's cylinder is longer than a Remington I would think that you would have to limit the charge weight to about 20gr. but if you were to try it I would suggest using real FFFG because 777 is sensitive to compression & if compressed too much it may misfire or possibly become violent due to it's hotter than BP & you using a heavier than normal projectile weight that it needs to push.
Black Powder will happily do the job & even loves compression but will produce with far less pressures than 777.
IMHO 777 is not a powder to experiment with in this area.

1858rem
August 29, 2008, 11:43 PM
thanks for givin me a usefull reply... i will now have now time six days of the week and Friday is my only completely free day.... so i tried it out about seven thirty and got the same results, or very similar, using 27g 777 anyhow. i believe it prob is a waste of lead though, ill take a single rb and better accuracy over a pair and diff poa plus less accuracy, i did find out how wonderfully lube pills are though. so easy to make and work like a charm:D .... thanks anyhow though

scrat
August 29, 2008, 11:51 PM
cant remember when. But the subject did come up once before. on two round balls in a cylinder. we were talking about it from a civil war point that this was done often by mistake. Same time i believe there were a few people that have done it. But quickly figured out it was not worth it. Now ideally by theory if you have two round balls coming out of the same chamber same barrel at the same time from the same charge. They should go through the same hole. However that was not the case. It was inconsistant. To the point that differenty chambers in the cylinders would give different results. Same time every throw of the hammer would put the balls 1/4 of an inch apart or even more. i researched this once. it seems the problem is the back bullet is getting the pressure and the bang from the charge the ball in front is being pushed by the back ball. Since it was not under pressure as the back one. it is sort of pushed out of the way. the only way to avoid this and to have both balls act as one would be to use some type of filler in between both balls as they would have to be very very tightly pushed agaisnt each other. you would almost have to use a conical flat faced kinda like a barrel with no round ends on each side otherwise the rear ball is pushing the front. Instead of both getting the benefits of the charge. This is why its a no go. So ya its already been tried and it doesnt work. All your doing is waisting lead. Again we are back to the load it per the manual and shoot for accuracy

Navy joe
August 30, 2008, 12:03 AM
Maybe you need a LeMat, that way if you want lots of holes just flip the hammer down and touch off the center barrel. What's with the 777 stuff? I thought the fun of Blackpowder was the smell and smoke of, well blackpowder! :D

scrat
August 30, 2008, 12:09 AM
the dream revolver

1858rem
August 30, 2008, 12:17 AM
777 makes a TON of smoke.... i was out in the woods (could be part of it) its a sugar based, non sulpher bp sub, hell... the way i jus explained it i dont even know if they put any kno3 in it either, but i couldn see a thing cause of all the smoke, but its 777 or pyro round here cant find any bp at all. i did see a post on here.. somethin like 10 lb order bein $135 includin hazmat? definately be my next order..less i get a mill an make some faster bp, . ooh, i also had a really GOOD idea for a target that im sure has to have been used before... when i was fluxing out all my lead id pour it off into a steel bowl, let it cool dup it out and do several of these untill all my lead was clean, well they are about 3.5-4 in around, 1.5 in thick, and when you shoot them the lead stays in the target... so you dont ever have to get more lead or dig out old slugs. they just smush together... good 25 yd target. and if you good you can keep em rollin lol:D:evil:

1858rem
August 30, 2008, 12:19 AM
i have looked at the LeMat a lot....but to hell with 750$ im not that rich lol:eek:

scrat
August 30, 2008, 12:21 AM
everyone has looked at the lemat. however i would much rather get a sharps. 45-90 or 45-110

Voodoochile
August 30, 2008, 12:33 AM
I like the extra shots ability of the Lemat but I don't like the awkwardness it looks & kinda feels to me "had one in my hands years ago & it didn't feel right in my hands."

27gr. of 777 is pretty much a max load in the replica '58's & that's with a single ball so I'd use that load sparingly with anything other than ball, but that's just my opinion, I'll stick with my Goex & Pyrodex P for my C&B revolvers "plenty of punch with less pressure & cheaper too"

scrat
August 30, 2008, 12:35 AM
What was that revolver that was posted a while back that had 12 cylinders and was just friggen huge. Do any of you guys remember that one

1858rem
August 30, 2008, 12:45 AM
i know that hodgen says reduce 777 load by 15% but it really seems fine shootin up to about 45g an a 200g conical. 47g 777 sounds different, to the point i dont hear anything but a thump an my ears hurt like hell. normally i wear ear protection because shootin 110g 777 an a 250g real from my .45rifle f@%&#d my ears up to where i get super bad head aches w in protection... 2 an a half yr or so later an having had my 44 bout 18 months.. and never actually hearing what it sounded like without plugs i decided to take em out to know what it would sound like. well i prob shouldn have tried 47g 777 as my first load to hear, no pop, or boom, just a thump an pain. it quit an hour or so later. today when i tried the double rb i shot off a few cylinders full, but forgot my plugs, shootin27g 6 times killed my head. ears are still ringin right now and i had the gun cleaned an put up by 9, so its been ringin quite a while. they used to all the time, i gotta be carefull now lol, i like to hear stuff.

1858rem
August 30, 2008, 12:46 AM
no i havent heard of a 12 but i think the LeMat had nine, revolving rifle would be nice too.... not a carbine though:rolleyes:

scrat
August 30, 2008, 12:53 AM
omg now i have heard everything tonight. Please where your ear plugs. Good thing no one was shooting a full load WALKER. I once set off a car alarm with my WALKER that was over 100 yards away. It was classic. The guy moved his car further back. Then set his alarm again. (go figure setting an alarm at an outdoor range). So i pulled out my .50 cva and loaded up 3 50/50 pellots behind a .45sabot. KAAAAA BOOOOOOM.


honk honk honk honk goes the alarm again. i had to stop shooting for about 10 minutes i was laughing so hard

1858rem
August 30, 2008, 12:58 AM
nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D didja know the guy or justa stranger

scrat
August 30, 2008, 12:59 AM
stranger. nope. sure was fun though.

1858rem
August 30, 2008, 01:23 AM
i gotta see how close i have to get to set off a car alarm, lots of fun, especially roun strangers and carryin a big ol honkin gun. i gotta work 9-9 today/in the morning so im outta here. thanks for the info.

pohill
August 30, 2008, 05:11 AM
OK, 1858rem, you got me. Who are you really? I appreciate April 1st jokes but only on April 1st. Come on out, take credit for the joke and let's end this nonsense. You're taking up people's (posters) time and putting stupid ideas out there for legitimate young people who might be truly interested in learning about black powder shooting. If you are indeed who you say you are, and have done the things you say you have, then get your money back on that lobotomy because it made things worse.

1858rem
August 30, 2008, 09:09 AM
just asking questions.... ill smarten up soon enough

Voodoochile
August 30, 2008, 12:20 PM
i know that hodgen says reduce 777 load by 15% but it really seems fine shootin up to about 45g an a 200g conical. 47g 777 sounds different, to the point i dont hear anything but a thump an my ears hurt like hell. normally i wear ear protection because shootin 110g 777 an a 250g real from my .45rifle f@%&#d my ears up to where i get super bad head aches w in protection... 2 an a half yr or so later an having had my 44 bout 18 months.. and never actually hearing what it sounded like without plugs i decided to take em out to know what it would sound like. well i prob shouldn have tried 47g 777 as my first load to hear, no pop, or boom, just a thump an pain. it quit an hour or so later. today when i tried the double rb i shot off a few cylinders full, but forgot my plugs, shootin27g 6 times killed my head. ears are still ringin right now and i had the gun cleaned an put up by 9, so its been ringin quite a while. they used to all the time, i gotta be carefull now lol, i like to hear stuff.

OK this sounds really fishy!
First off using real Goex FFFG I can cram only 37.5gr. into either of my Pietta '58's & still have room to just clear the barrel using a 200gr. or a 220gr. Lee Conical bullet, I can just barely squeeze 42gr. & a .457 143gr. ball into the same cylinder so when you say that you can load 45-47gr. into these cylinders & use a conical over top makes me wonder if you're pulling our leg or something.

Now as far as you shooting without hearing protection as much as you say makes me think that you need some help, I understand maybe a cylinder load every once in a while & maybe a barrel load in your rifle or shotgun every once in a while "I do that my self to sortof have a subconcience idea of what to expect when I use them during hunting & what not" but not as often as you've mentioned, if I don't have any hearing protection & none is available then I may shoot a cylinder load, one or two loads in my rifle/shotgun then I'm going home because my hearing is precious to me.

Sir Ocelot
August 30, 2008, 01:04 PM
First off using real Goex FFFG I can cram only 37.5gr. into either of my Pietta '58's & still have room to just clear the barrel using a 200gr. or a 220gr. Lee Conical bullet, I can just barely squeeze 42gr. & a .457 143gr. ball into the same cylinder so when you say that you can load 45-47gr. into these cylinders & use a conical over top makes me wonder if you're pulling our leg or something.

Triple 7 is more compressible than BP; the maker advises not to compress it heavily, but if you do, more fits into the cylinder. (The same is true of American Pioneer Powder.)

scrat
August 30, 2008, 01:17 PM
And Welcome to THR Sir Ocelot

mykeal
August 30, 2008, 11:13 PM
Compressing 777 is simply a recipe for ftf's and inconsistent burns, thus results.

Navy joe
August 31, 2008, 01:24 AM
just asking questions.... ill smarten up soon enough

What's that you say? Get smart or die trying? :D

1858rem
August 31, 2008, 01:32 AM
200g lee is shorter than a 220 lee, cant even fit it under my ram. 200 is not a whole lot longer than a rb, bout 1/2in vs .454, and just to check i completely filled my chamber to the top and it held just a hair over 60g 777 powder maybe 61 very close. standard cylinder too. so i don't know what to say, it just holds it? and the 777 will compress very well. i don't think you want more than light pressure on the charge though. otherwise you get erratic results. it is just fun to shoot heavy loads like that sometimes. lots of noise and lots of smoke. im not here to fool anyone. i wear hearing protection all the time now, but yesterday i was in a bit of a hurry to try a few different loads, including the 2 rb, accuracy with a single rb, paper cartridge(as far as if the paper burns up or clogs the chamber), lube pills, shot loads, and accurate loads of powder and ball, conical with the new 777 i got. and a midst all this i forgot to wear the plugs once, for a single cylinder of 27g 777 and 2 rb. the 47g load was a month ago i guess and before that it must have been at least a year or better since i had not worn ear protection. i dont have any time during the week so i gotta cram everything into friday.. had 2 hrd yesterday to shoot. this week ill plan things out better, remember ear protection, and check up on things i thing may potentially be dangerous before i attempt them

Smokin_Gun
August 31, 2008, 03:50 AM
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scrat
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What was that revolver that was posted a while back that had 12 cylinders and was just friggen huge. Do any of you guys remember that one
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scrat
August 31, 2008, 12:51 PM
1858 Where do you shoot that you forget ear plugs. I shoot at an outdoor range. You just dont forget ear protections. In fact i have about 3000 ear plugs. i got a smoking deal a few years ago and bought 5 boxes. So i have a handfull in each of my bags and boxes. But even if i totally forgot when i get to the range id remember as the sound of others shooting would quickly remind me. I guess you should do the same thing buy a whole bunch of those disposable ear plugs. they are way worth it.

scrat
August 31, 2008, 12:52 PM
Smoking Gun Nice pic
but wrong thread my friend

Smokin_Gun
August 31, 2008, 01:43 PM
Smoking Gun Nice pic
but wrong thread my friend:rolleyes:

It was your post I reponded to Scrat...look above.:rolleyes:

http://i34.tinypic.com/11l75li.jpg

:cool:
SG

scrat
August 31, 2008, 01:45 PM
oh ya thats right.

1858rem
August 31, 2008, 09:56 PM
i mentioned somewhere that i don't know of any gun ranges around here, when it was suggested i shoot a 44, oh ya on the one bout smokeless lol. i have a pretty huge yard and surrounding land no one lives on, that is my range:D.out front its about 300yds long, behind the garage about 25yd with an excellent backstop, which also serves as the backstop for the 300 yd stretch. next to the house there is about 30yds open for shooting, many acres of woods after that. a very nice huge tree to prop target boxes against there. and behind the house about 125yds or so. so basically i was walking back and forth to my reloading bench in the house, loading up, shoot off a cylinder, go back to the bench and adjust loads or whatever need be done, go back out to shoot, load up..etc. i was carrying my plugs back and forth with me and accidentally left them on the bench. i definitely remembered from then on, made sure i had them before i shot any more rounds:uhoh:

1858rem
October 24, 2008, 12:55 AM
i was reading the lyman 47th edition and saw a section where 2 rb were shot out of a rifle barrel i think.... showde pictures of the air pressure in front of the bullet squishing it. they used tripwires to set off the camera.. pretty cool stuff anyhow

Hellgate
October 24, 2008, 03:04 AM
I have shot double ball loads from my 36cal '61 Navy on numerous occasions. The front ball gets its rear flattened by the rear ball which gets it's front flattened. They do not go into the same hole as they have different ballistic coefficients. I could only get about 10-12grs of FFFg in so it was a pretty low powered load. I would not try 777 as it is not so forgiving.

the-ghost
October 24, 2008, 03:46 AM
omg i want that "20 shooter", someone needs to call uberti!

good thread, learned me somethings, thanks!

Smokin_Gun
October 24, 2008, 04:39 AM
They were called a Rifle's Deer Load used to put meat on the table...never were they meant to goi in a Revolver, thinks about it 283gr load in that cylinder hitting your barrel's forcing cone, oh well yer Gun.
I have use that Deer Load for many years in my .50 cal Poorboy, and Hawken.
It yields an 8" spread at 100yds. with 60gr of ffg Goex. And the balls stay the same as when they were loaded Round. Powder patched ball and another patched ball.

SG

BHP FAN
October 24, 2008, 11:02 AM
Smokin Gun is right,those loads have been done,but not in a revolver.years ago,when black powder rifle ''kits'' first came out they were pretty crude [not like the pre-fitted,and tested kits you see nowadays] and generally speaking they weren't much cheaper than buying a finished gun from Dixie,Navy Arms or Numrich.My buddy's dad was a bit of a mad scientist gunsmith,and thought he could do as well,if not better in his home workshop.Well,he did really,really well.he had a lot of time off,because he was sick,and didn't work anymore [he was dieing of cancer,but we boys didn't know that,then] and when he was done,he gave my buddy a double barrel over and under percussion musket.It was plain,but in a handsome way.The only downside was that he hadn't been able to rifle it.My buddy countered that flaw by loading two patched round .440ball,down each long smoothbore barrel,thus haveing four chances in two shots to hit.And it DID hit.At fifty yards [pretty much the gun's max range],it would consistantly put both balls from both barrels in a six inch bull,about 3-4 inches apart.

1858rem
October 24, 2008, 12:14 PM
i thought it was pretty cool how the, well i think they were intentionally shooting IN the sound barrier @ about 1100fps i think to demonstrate the ill effects on accuracy mebbe? but it showed a neat pressure wave with a bic ) shape in front of the rb, with a little gap, on the fast rb it was right up on the barrier and the ) shaped wave in front of it was holding the ball back and actually squishing it. they did the test with a modern jacketed pointed bullet an the wave was morr of a > shape lol. neat section though

Coyote Rider
October 27, 2008, 09:23 PM
I try to avoid going off-topic, but with a screwy thread like, hey, why not? Besides, it's only a little off topic.

Read a biography of Andy Jackson a while back. It said that once when he was eight years old, one of his buddies as a gag filled his rifle to the muzzle with powder, leaving just enough room to cram in a patched ball, and gave it to Andy to shoot. The biographer said it knocked him onto his hind end.

Old Fuff
October 27, 2008, 09:33 PM
Good yarn, but not true... :uhoh:

As soon as the charge at the breech end ignited the pressure would push the compressed but unburnt powder forward and push the ball out of the muzzle. Thereafter you would get flash, smoke and a lot of unburned powder on the ground...

But no recoil... :(

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