Law Enforcement Weapons Qualification


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tacweapon
August 30, 2008, 03:35 AM
What are the requirements for a Law Enforcement Officer to quailfy with a Pistol and Patrol Rifle ?
What Scores are needed and how do they determine the Scores ?
What targets are used ?
At what distance do they fire from ?
Is there any moving and shooting ?
Is the it just firing from standing or is it firing from prone, kneeling, sitting, standing etc ?
Is it just single acurate shoots or is there rapid fire ?
Is there a difference in the day and night qualifications ?

I am planning on becoming a LEO as soon as I can and I would like to know how to train so that I can try myself to be able to easly pass the qualifaction and make that my base level of training ?

Does anyone have any recommendations for how to train this way ?
I am a member at my local PD range since I dispatch for them but there is never any officers there to ask

Any input or advise would be appreciated

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Jorg Nysgerrig
August 30, 2008, 03:44 AM
I think you'll find that it varies pretty widely from agency to agency. Your best bet may be to contact the agency with whom you are planning to apply. As I understand it, your state's POST (or equivalent) organization sets a minimum standard it varies from there.

tacweapon
August 30, 2008, 03:53 AM
I thought that there might be a bare minimum that all officers had to qualify to

I still have atleast 2 years until I am able to go in to Law Enforcement but I figure the sooner I start to prepare myself the better off I will be

Josh Aston
August 30, 2008, 04:10 AM
There is no Federally mandated minimum for state and local agencies. Some states may have a state wide minimum. Overall though, each agency sets its own standards. If there aren't any officers available at the range to ask, what about range officials? If the range has any they should know what the course of fire is and what's needed to pass it.

tacweapon
August 30, 2008, 04:21 AM
The local PD has 2 ranges the one I am a member of is the older one that is not used as often it is in the middle of a Natonal Forest. There is no Range Officer at it. I pay 12 dollars a year for a 100 yard rifle range, Cabin and about 60-70 acres to hunt and fish and whatever on.

Mr_Rogers
August 30, 2008, 12:21 PM
There is usually some sort of State mandated training requirement, after that the level of training depends on the enthusiasm of the individual officer and the ability of the instructors.

Small departments are horribly underfunded for decent firearms training facilities considering the importance of adequate training to the job. Many are lucky to have a hole scraped into a hillside 20 minutes out of town.

I would estimate the general level of training to be higher than the average non-LE shooter but less than the better non-LE, say about the 75% point on a scale of non-LE training. The reasons for this are low-training budgets, poor facilities and, unfortunately, some lack of enthusiasm amongst the average LEOs. The keen guys get really good because there is a feedback of practical experience that is missing for most non-LEs.

The periodic mandated qualification training is pretty easy to pass but you have to remember that this is only a minimum requirement and does not necessarily reflect the average level of officer ability.

If you are a dispatcher you should be able to contact your local dept. RO who will give you a copy of his qual. course. It is not a secret document.

Maelstrom
August 30, 2008, 01:04 PM
Here's a rundown of my local department's requirements (also in VA):

-2 shots in three seconds from holster @ 5 yards
three times

-2 shots in three seconds from holster @ 7 yards
three times-speed reload

-4 shots in eight seconds, strong hand only @ 7 yards

-transfer gun from strong hand to weak hand then 4 shots in ten seconds, weak hand only @ 7 yards-tactical reload

-2 shots in three seconds from holster @ 15 yards then return to high tuck position
three times

-6 shots in eight seconds from holster @ 15 yards

-6 shots kneeling-reload-6 shots standing in 45 seconds from 25 yards

There's something missing here. The course is 50 rounds and I've only accounted for 44. There's a six shot course that I'm forgetting. If I remember it I'll put it in here.

Jeff White
August 30, 2008, 01:15 PM
I am planning on becoming a LEO as soon as I can and I would like to know how to train so that I can try myself to be able to easily pass the qualification and make that my base level of training ?

Find a quality instructor and pony up the money for some professional training. Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, Tactical Response, Blackwater or one of the many other instructors out there. You'll be far ahead of your peers. Don't worry at all about what a department' qualification course is. Learn the basics well and you can master any of them out there.

If you really want to prepare for a career in LE, take English and Composition. You'll get more from being able to write a good narrative report then you ever will from being a good shot.

Police departments don't hire gunfighters. It probably wouldn't be a good idea to mention to anyone at an interview that you were training to shoot two years out from being eligible to be hired.

If you are taking college course in Criminal Justice, you are wasting your time. The departments who require college credit to be hired will take credits in any field and if you decide that LE isn't for you, you are stuck with a degree that is useless in the outside world.

hth

Heff

Nicky Santoro
August 30, 2008, 02:20 PM
Law Enforcement Weapons Qualification

In my town they just pretend. They are about as likely to fire their weapon oin duty as to become an astronaut. As long as they don't shoot themselves in the foot unholstering their weapon they pass. This from the LEO who is a long time customer of mine and OIC of qualification.

spwenger
August 30, 2008, 03:08 PM
Find a quality instructor and pony up the money for some professional training. Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, Tactical Response, Blackwater or one of the many other instructors out there. You'll be far ahead of your peers. Don't worry at all about what a department' qualification course is. Learn the basics well and you can master any of them out there.
First of all. these days most LE agencies are not looking to hire "gunfighters" so showing too strong a background in firearms could actually go against you, depending on the political climate where you apply.

Secondly, depending on where you go to the academy, assuming that you do get hired, the chances are fairly high that the academy instructors will have a "method" they prefer to teach. Showing them that you can do better with a method you learned elsewhere is not likely to earn you points.

Don't believe it? One of my students, himself a firearms instructor with the US Border Patrol, told me of an academy classmate with a military background in special operations. The guy tried to do it the way that it was taught at the FLETC USBP academy but it just did not work for him. He made it through the academy but the firearms instructors were not happy when he reverted to his former training. I once did some free pre-academy coaching for a petite woman who was getting ready to attend the Arizona Correctional Officer Training Academy. Again, her academy instructors were not happy when she shifted to a shooting position she had learned from me since they believed that their method had to work better.

I am occasionally contacted by potential students who wish to prepare for a career in law enforcement. I always advise them to wait until they have graduated from the academy before "expanding their horizons" with private instruction.

Speedo66
August 30, 2008, 03:31 PM
"I pay $12 a year for a 100 yard range"

I can't shoot for a day at that price. :mad:

I'm a peace officer with a state agency in NYC. There are police and peace officers in different city and state agencies in the city, including NYPD, NYSP, Envir. Conservation police, court peace officers, correction officers, marshalls, sheriffs, bridge & tunnel officers, Port Authority police, tax agents for various agencies, Animal Cruelty Prevention officers, and probably 10 other agencies I can't think of at the moment who are armed and they pretty much all have different training and requal.

Old Grump
August 30, 2008, 04:51 PM
2 cents from an old instructor. Work on your bullseye shooting skills at 50', 25 yards and 50 yards. Get proficient with both hands, do most of your training with a 22, preferably pistol and revolver. Don't try to anticipate a style or a weapon because in 2 years it is unlikely to be the same as it is today. As posted elsewhere they will want you to use their guns and their style and a good marksman can adapt to any style. Marksmanship is harder to teach and a good bullseye shooter can adapt easier than a combat style shooter can to bullseye. Shoot a variety of guns so you have familiarity with them, learning to adjust to a different grip, sight picture, manual of arms is easier if you are already flexible. Don't try to teach your self fast draw without an instructor. Lots of leg injuries incurred that way and generally unless you are undercover or in a surprise scenario you will have your weapon in hand when approaching a situation. Don't get locked in a mindset that there is only one way to do things because it will work against you. All of the shooters I trained qualified and some were very high scorers even though I had not run them through the qualification course. Get out in the country somewhere and do a lot of plinking at reactive targets at various distances. In Finnish its called Fartlek and means work play. You are having fun but the fun is actually improving your skills. Picking up a semi-auto and blazing away as fast as you can in the direction of the target is not productive and only makes noise and wastes ammo.

tacweapon
August 30, 2008, 05:10 PM
Quote:
I am planning on becoming a LEO as soon as I can and I would like to know how to train so that I can try myself to be able to easily pass the qualification and make that my base level of training ?

Find a quality instructor and pony up the money for some professional training. Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, Tactical Response, Blackwater or one of the many other instructors out there. You'll be far ahead of your peers. Don't worry at all about what a department' qualification course is. Learn the basics well and you can master any of them out there.

If you really want to prepare for a career in LE, take English and Composition. You'll get more from being able to write a good narrative report then you ever will from being a good shot.

Police departments don't hire gunfighters. It probably wouldn't be a good idea to mention to anyone at an interview that you were training to shoot two years out from being eligible to be hired.

If you are taking college course in Criminal Justice, you are wasting your time. The departments who require college credit to be hired will take credits in any field and if you decide that LE isn't for you, you are stuck with a degree that is useless in the outside world.

I was planning on going to a Pat Goodale class a few weeks ago but was unable to because my Grandfather passed away the week before and I had funeral arrangements to help with. As soon as I am finished with my training at work I am going to start attending college classes I should be finished training by January I plan on taking college classes in something I enjoy so that if I do not get hired or if I get injured I have something to fall back on not sure what it is yet nut by time I get my general ed classes finished I should have decided the department I would like to get hired at does not require colege but it is definiatly an advantage if you have it. A lot of the officers already now me since I did a mentorship with them and I was a Police Explorer for them and now I dispatch for them. This coming spring I am taking EMT First Responder also.

tacweapon
August 30, 2008, 05:13 PM
Secondly, depending on where you go to the academy, assuming that you do get hired, the chances are fairly high that the academy instructors will have a "method" they prefer to teach. Showing them that you can do better with a method you learned elsewhere is not likely to earn you points.

Don't believe it? One of my students, himself a firearms instructor with the US Border Patrol, told me of an academy classmate with a military background in special operations. The guy tried to do it the way that it was taught at the FLETC USBP academy but it just did not work for him. He made it through the academy but the firearms instructors were not happy when he reverted to his former training. I once did some free pre-academy coaching for a petite woman who was getting ready to attend the Arizona Correctional Officer Training Academy. Again, her academy instructors were not happy when she shifted to a shooting position she had learned from me since they believed that their method had to work better.

I am occasionally contacted by potential students who wish to prepare for a career in law enforcement. I always advise them to wait until they have graduated from the academy before "expanding their horizons" with private instruction.


One of the reasons I was going to take the Pat Goodale class is one of his instructers in also a member of the PD I would like to be hired by.

tacweapon
August 30, 2008, 05:24 PM
2 cents from an old instructor. Work on your bullseye shooting skills at 50', 25 yards and 50 yards. Get proficient with both hands, do most of your training with a 22, preferably pistol and revolver. Don't try to anticipate a style or a weapon because in 2 years it is unlikely to be the same as it is today. As posted elsewhere they will want you to use their guns and their style and a good marksman can adapt to any style. Marksmanship is harder to teach and a good bullseye shooter can adapt easier than a combat style shooter can to bullseye. Shoot a variety of guns so you have familiarity with them, learning to adjust to a different grip, sight picture, manual of arms is easier if you are already flexible. Don't try to teach your self fast draw without an instructor. Lots of leg injuries incurred that way and generally unless you are undercover or in a surprise scenario you will have your weapon in hand when approaching a situation. Don't get locked in a mindset that there is only one way to do things because it will work against you. All of the shooters I trained qualified and some were very high scorers even though I had not run them through the qualification course. Get out in the country somewhere and do a lot of plinking at reactive targets at various distances. In Finnish its called Fartlek and means work play. You are having fun but the fun is actually improving your skills. Picking up a semi-auto and blazing away as fast as you can in the direction of the target is not productive and only makes noise and wastes ammo.


When I still was in school I was Captain of the Marksmanship team but we were only able to shoot Air Rifles but since then I have not been able to compete in any matches and when I first started buying weapons I started to move away from that and just bought what ever I could afford but now I am starting to go back no accurate fire I have since bought a good accurate .22 rilfe but I only have 1 pistol and it is a Taurus PT 1911SS and since I am only 19 it is hard for me to buy a quality pistol but I am on the lookout for a good 22 pistol I do try to shoot at least 50 rouds weak hand everytime I go out to the range but I propably do need to practrice it a little more to be more accurate

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