Man kills girlfriend while showing her gun, charged with negligent homicide


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mrreynolds
August 30, 2008, 07:45 PM
Man kills girlfriend while showing her gun, charged with negligent homicide
by Ramon Antonio Vargas,

The Times-Picayune
Tuesday August 19, 2008, 9:30 AM

A 23-year-old man's attempt to show his girlfriend a pistol ended in tragedy Monday night when the gun fired, killing her, according to the Jefferson Parish Sheriff's Office.

Averyell Davis, 23, was shot in the abdomen after the handgun her boyfriend was handling went off, said sheriff's spokesman Col. John Fortunato. Curtis C. Murray has been arrested and booked with one count of negligent homicide.

The couple were in the living room of their home in the 500 block of Behrman Highway in Gretna at about 10:15 p.m. when the gun discharged, Fortunato said. Authorities did not specify what caused the gun to fire.

Emergency responders arrived at the couple's home, where Davis' mother met them and told them that her daughter was shot inside the home.

In the living room, they found Davis lying on the floor with a wounded abdomen.

Responders transported her to Ochsner Medical Center, and on the way there, she told authorities that her boyfriend accidentally shot her, according to Fortunato.

Davis died shortly after arriving at the hospital.

Lt. Don English, the homicide detective handling the case, later booked Murray with the criminal charge at the Jefferson Parish Correctional Center.

Even though the victim claimed it was an accident, "our investigation showed negligence on (Murray's) part, and that's why he was charged," Fortunato said.

Negligent homicide defendants can face up to 5 years in prison, a fine up to $5,000, or both, according to state law.

Ramon Antonio Vargas can be reached at rvargas@timespicayune.com or 504.826.3300.

ARTICLE (http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2008/08/man_fatally_shoots_girlfriend.html)

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SCKimberFan
August 30, 2008, 07:46 PM
Stupid is as stupid does.

Elza
August 30, 2008, 07:51 PM
Authorities did not specify what caused the gun to fire.Iíll take a SWAG at it. His finger on the trigger perhaps??!! :rolleyes:

rbernie
August 30, 2008, 07:55 PM
Stupid is as stupid does.In this case, the girl died because of HIS stupidity and her ignorance of proper gun handling. Stupidity SHOULD be fatal, but ignorance should not. Here, the wrong person died.

This is a classic example of how teaching proper gun handling to folk would be A Good Thing.

rugerman07
August 30, 2008, 07:58 PM
This is an accident that shouldn't have happened. Common sense should tell you that.

Eric F
August 30, 2008, 08:07 PM
Man this is tough. All any one has to do is unload and show clear as the saying goes. Infact just unload it any way if it comes out of the holster for a non threat situation.

And yet I read thisIíll take a SWAG at it. His finger on the trigger perhaps??!! And I think(in poor taste) I will take a shot at it:confused:whats wrong with me?

elrod
August 30, 2008, 08:13 PM
How many times have we read this story........and how do we prevent this type of tragedy without severely limiting the freedoms of everyone with a gun? Training? Drivers ed dosen't prevent car wrecks. Or is this collateral damage that is unavoidable, the price soceity pays to own a gun? It is my belief that we better come up with some tangible solutions before the government crams it down our throat.

megatronrules
August 30, 2008, 08:14 PM
This is tragic indeed I agree this was preventable and needless. However having said that we still need to remember that this is a tragedy and a young girl lost her life.was it stupid? yes but we should at least show compassion. also its like I've always been taught its the "unloaded" gun that kills you.

Rustynuts
August 30, 2008, 08:37 PM
Still sounds like murder to me, I think he intended to do it. "Here let me show you something, BAM! Oops, Sorry!"

Treo
August 30, 2008, 08:38 PM
I have a somewhat novel suggestion, Let's get some actual facts about what happened before we crucify the shooter.

lacoochee
August 30, 2008, 08:38 PM
In other news, over a hundred people died today across the US in traffic accidents, some because of stupid mistakes others because someone else made a stupid mistake.

Yes, it's tragic that this happened but in the end it's because it's so rare that it made the news at all.

As a side note, I wonder how many of these types of things are really "accidents"?

Eric F
August 30, 2008, 08:41 PM
Murder accidents negligence none of this really matters. What does matter is this and how do we prevent this type of tragedy without severely limiting the freedoms of everyone with a gun? Training? Friends the key to preventing any accident is education. Freel training classes, a gun safety class requirement before a gun purchase? Is that restricting gun ownership? Some would say yes, some would claim Brady tactics, would it save lives?(another brady tactic) yes. There must be a solution to gun education.

Eric F
August 30, 2008, 08:43 PM
I have a somewhat novel suggestion, Let's get some actual facts about what happened before we crucify the shooter.
Yeah right with this crowd of vultures not likely I have made this arguement many times and been gang keyboarded......good luck!

Duke Junior
August 30, 2008, 08:46 PM
when the gun fired, killing her,

Right.It just could not help itself and went off the deep end.
How many times have we read this stupidity?

1911Tuner
August 30, 2008, 09:46 PM
Very tragic, and entirely preventable.
I know someone who this same thing happened to to about 30 years ago. The younger brother of a friend was playing with a .22 pistol...a Colt Woodsman...and shot his girlfriend in the eye. She died where she fell. The pistol belonged to her father. The last I heard...about 5 years ago...he still hasn't gotten over it, and has destroyed himself with alcohol. His brother said that he still wakes up screaming about 2 nights a week.

TStorm
August 30, 2008, 10:55 PM
Quote:
I have a somewhat novel suggestion, Let's get some actual facts about what happened before we crucify the shooter.

Yeah right with this crowd of vultures not likely I have made this arguement many times and been gang keyboarded......good luck!

I'll cede you the point, but the crowd is full of safety hawks and not vultures.

The gun is always loaded. There are no accidental discharges, only negligent ones. Firearm + Cartridge + Finger on trigger, the firearm operates as designed. As for the spirit of the safety hawks, we all understand that these incidents are preventable, and that the many suffer for the actions of the few.

B.D. Turner
August 30, 2008, 10:59 PM
There is no excuse for shootings like this.

myrockfight
August 30, 2008, 11:00 PM
The last I heard...about 5 years ago...he still hasn't gotten over it, and has destroyed himself with alcohol. His brother said that he still wakes up screaming about 2 nights a week.


I don't know how anyone could get over something like that. While he was negligent, I still feel bad for him. He took someone else's life. So I guess it is fair that someone should take his (through punishment in jail). Sad situation all the way around. I feel the most for her family. Prayers sent.

1911Tuner
August 30, 2008, 11:04 PM
I don't know how anyone could get over something like that. While he was negligent, I still feel bad for him.

I don't either...and according to reports...he hasn't. He was kid when it happened. 17 years old. If they only hadn't skipped school that day...

Starship1st
August 31, 2008, 08:49 AM
What a tradgedy, and the bf failed to use any of the basic firearm safety. The negligent charge is right IMO. :fire:

SCKimberFan
August 31, 2008, 09:03 AM
There is a common thread in so many of these posts of people being killed or injured. That thread is that so many of these NDs are just a failure to follow the 4 rules of gun safety. At least 2 were not followed in this case, maybe all 4.

They will continue to happen (unfortunately) until folks have these rules engrained into their brains.

Rustynuts
August 31, 2008, 09:11 AM
I have a somewhat novel suggestion, Let's get some actual facts about what happened before we crucify the shooter.

The article states the girlfriend says he shot her. Whether it is murder (OK, lets say homicide technically), or simple ND, the idiot deserves to be crucified!! :fire:

JImbothefiveth
August 31, 2008, 09:13 AM
Why just the other day I was at the range, I accidentally shot some targets. I loaded the gun, took the safety off, aimed, and pulled the trigger, and the gun just fired for no reason.
This happened about ten times, then I put in a fresh magazine, and it happened again! I am shocked, needless to say! :scrutiny:

How to handle a gun, this can't be posted enough:
Rule #1:: Always treat all guns as if they are loaded, always!

Rule#2: Always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, so if it were to fire, noone will get shot. This also means no shooting when people are forward of the barrel, no matter how good a shot you are.

Rule#3:keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot, even if they don't in the movies or on TV.

RUle#4 Always know your target and what's behind it. Make sure Jonny isn't behind that sillhoute.

If it truly was an accident, I feel bad for this guy. Maybe we should distribute the 4 rules in public school, along with those don't pollute signs and the like that they normally put up.

maestro pistolero
August 31, 2008, 01:28 PM
Very sad, no matter what the reason. This kind of thing highlights the lack of gun socialization early in life.

We still have the right, thank God, and the SCOTUS, but too many of us didn't grow up learning to intuitively keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.

I see it in gun shops here in Vegas. I can't count the times a sales person has crossed me with their muzzle in this town. It happened with an AR last week. I literally batted the muzzle to my left and said ***? The response: "it's not loaded". Remarkable, eh?

Artiz
August 31, 2008, 03:19 PM
I agree with you, always keep the muzzle in a safe direction, and always keep your finger off the trigger.
I play paintball, recball/mil-sim, and you will never see my finger on the trigger, you will never see my M16 SPR (Tippmann A5 upped to have a realistic look, like an M16 SPR) pointed to someone's way (you will see me pointing someone elses gun down alot though, stupid kids, I got shot in the safe 2 weeks ago, damn stupid imatures), maybe just their feets, if a teammate walks in front of me, I instinctively point down my gun.
It is just paintball, but it is still weapons, the injuries cannot be fatal, but we start the day with two eyes, I always expect to have both at the end of the day.

jakemccoy
August 31, 2008, 04:16 PM
I'd vote for mandatory gun education for grades K-12.

jakemccoy
August 31, 2008, 04:24 PM
when the gun fired, killing her

A more accurate statement would have been "the gun was fired" using the passive voice, but that's being nit picky. At the time of the article, there was no definitive proof as to who or what caused the gun to fire. It could have been the man's finger. It could have been the girl's finger. It could have been a piece of string from the man's pants or a host of other things. Who knows? Reporting "the gun fired" covers all scenarios.

Blacky
August 31, 2008, 04:38 PM
An accident is a specific, identifiable, unexpected, unusual and unintended external event which occurs in a particular time and place, without apparent or deliberate cause but with marked effects. It implies a generally negative probabilistic outcome which may have been avoided or prevented had circumstances leading up to the accident been recognized, and acted upon, prior to its occurrence.

Narrowly defined, the designation may refer only to the event, while not including the circumstances (facts surrounding) or results of the event; i.e., Ďaccidentí is constrained to an immediate incident, the occurrence of which results in an unplanned outcome. In common use, however, Ďaccidentí may include the entire interacting circumstantial framework (chance, pre-existing, or uncontrolled dynamically developing conditions; commonplace actions; random time and place; participants; etc.) leading up to, including, and resulting from, the accident's immediate occurrence. Experts in the field of injury prevention avoid use of the term "accident" because they look at these incidents from the perspective of epidemiology - predictable and preventable.

Accident Analysis is performed in four steps:

1. Fact gathering After an accident happened a forensic process starts to gather all possibly relevant facts that may contribute to understanding the accident.
2. Fact Analysis After the forensic process has been completed or at least delivered some results the facts are put together to give a "big picture." The history of the accident is reconstructed and checked for consistency and plausibility.
3. Conclusion Drawing If the accident history is sufficiently informative conclusions can be drawn about causation and contributing factors.
4. Countermeasures In some cases the development of countermeasures is desired or recommendations have to be issued to prevent further accidents of the same kind.

BigStick
August 31, 2008, 05:17 PM
IMO, when a tragedy like this is truly an accident and there is real remorse and acknowledgment of the errors (if any) made, there should be no prosecution.

What is the point of turning an honest citizen into a criminal and ruining the next 5+ years of his life over an accident? Our justice system and prisons are already overcrowded. And then there is all the money that is going to be spent on lawyers, judges, jury selection, as well as room and board in the local prison system. This is a colossal waste of time, money, and human life when there are thousands of real criminals out there.

Before you crucify this guy, think about how you would like to be treated if you backed out of your drive way and accidentally ran over your 5 year old child playing on the sidewalk. It could easily be argued that your child's death was a result of your negligence. Would you like some sympathy... or some jail time?

lacoochee
August 31, 2008, 05:38 PM
+1 To jail time for not taking the time to look behind your car or truck when you are pulling out. That is negligence.

Though personally, if I got in my truck, didn't check to make sure the little guy was not behind my truck and also inside the house and some how the object detector I installed on my back license plate the day he started crawling malfunctioned and then ran over him. Upon ascertaining that he was indeed dead, I would follow within minutes.

SCKimberFan
August 31, 2008, 06:23 PM
We don't know if it was an accident or not. It is best to get more information before jumping to conclusions. :scrutiny:

Lashlarue
August 31, 2008, 06:28 PM
Better yet charge each and everyone involved in a fatal automobile accident, even the ones under the influence don't get five years, though they should.And if you were talking on your cell phone, life in prison with no parole!I've had two of them morons run me off the road in the last two weeks....

myrockfight
September 2, 2008, 12:49 AM
Better yet charge each and everyone involved in a fatal automobile accident,

? Like the passengers? The other driver? Your comment isn't very clear. Maybe it is just me being a dunce though. :)

SageMonkey
September 2, 2008, 03:36 AM
Authorities did not specify what caused the gun to fire.

That would be the finger on the bang-switch...

The sad thing is the only gun education most people will get is "stop - don't touch - tell an adult". While that might be good for younger kids, its a crying shame that high-school students aren't taught at least the most rudimentary gun safety (ie, the four rules), so that when they get closer to being an adult they know NOT to put their finger on the trigger.

If you look at almost any TV show or photo of a person handling a gun in mainstream media, guess where their index finger is? Most people just assume that you put it there when you pick up a gun... they have never been taught otherwise. I won't say that this kid shouldn't go to prison for a while, a woman is dead because he was ignorant- but we need to teach people how to handle guns even if they don't intend to purchase one- then they are less likely to be so ignorant as to kill a loved one accidentally.

CAPTAIN MIKE
September 2, 2008, 06:42 PM
...Man, I just HATE it when a gun "goes off all by itself" without explanation.

Stevie-Ray
September 2, 2008, 10:32 PM
I'd vote for mandatory gun education for grades K-12.I'd go along with that, myself. Just think, it would be great for all the kids that WANT to learn about them, and very educational for those that fear guns or don't like them because their parents don't. Hammer the rules into them in school, along with the horrifying consequences of not following them, and I'll bet kids have a much better respect for them when adulthood comes.

Problem is, 99.9% of the teachers would never go for it.

Old School
September 3, 2008, 12:31 AM
I'd go along with that, myself. Just think, it would be great for all the kids that WANT to learn about them, and very educational for those that fear guns or don't like them because their parents don't. Hammer the rules into them in school, along with the horrifying consequences of not following them, and I'll bet kids have a much better respect for them when adulthood comes.

Problem is, 99.9% of the teachers would never go for it.
You just know if firearm safety was compulsory, it would be heavily editorialized throughout by most teachers. It amazes me what my child comes home telling me that her teachers have said about various topics. I think I will just continue to educate my family members myself.

jakemccoy
September 3, 2008, 06:11 PM
You just know if firearm safety was compulsory, it would be heavily editorialized throughout by most teachers. It amazes me what my child comes home telling me that her teachers have said about various topics. I think I will just continue to educate my family members myself.

You can say the same thing about any subject, but you still send your kids to school, right? Or you home school them. Either way, they're still being educated somehow about various subjects.

Mandatory gun education is more to address problems in society as a whole, rather than to address families like yours. Your family would not be the target here. With mandatory gun education, you’d still have the ability to step in where the school fails, and you should.

While you may have grown up around guns, I and many others didn't. Until I became an adult and took the initiative to learn about guns on my own, I was relatively clueless about guns. Note that, throughout all my schooling, I attended well-respected schools and did NOT live a sheltered life. There are many, many kids who are growing up in a similar manner. The lack of gun education in America is a major problem. After all, gun rights are highlighted by the Second Amendment!

Mandatory gun education would do so many positive things that outweigh the negative. For example, gun education would take the curiosity and the coolness out of guns. That’s what school tends to do to all subjects. Band is not “cool”, right? Taking the coolness out is a good thing. The only kids messing with guns outside of the regular curriculum would be kids who have a serious intellectual interest. That’s also a good thing.

Vector
September 3, 2008, 06:26 PM
1911Tuner said,



Very tragic, and entirely preventable.
I know someone who this same thing happened to to about 30 years ago. The younger brother of a friend was playing with a .22 pistol...a Colt Woodsman...and shot his girlfriend in the eye. She died where she fell. The pistol belonged to her father. The last I heard...about 5 years ago...he still hasn't gotten over it, and has destroyed himself with alcohol. His brother said that he still wakes up screaming about 2 nights a week.

Sadly many of us know of stories like this. A friends brother took the family gun out to plink without proper training. He saw something in the bushes and fired thinking it was some type of animal. Unfortunately it was a kid on the other side of the bush, and he died instantly. His brother wound up a mental vegetable to the point that he dropped out of HS and stayed in his room upstairs all the time. Last I heard he was still alive, but still a basket case. :(

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