25 auto


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wilson
August 31, 2008, 09:33 AM
I wonder why no makes a 25 auto semi auto rifle. It seems like a 10/22 or I guess a 10/25 would make a nice little plinker. I know the ammo isnt cheaper than rimfire, and bullet selection isnt as good. It just seems like it would be a neat little gun.

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JImbothefiveth
August 31, 2008, 10:03 AM
I've actually been thinking about carbines in stuff like .25 acp, .32 acp, and .380 acp for a while. It might be because the .25 ACP has less power than a .22 LR, and I think the powders used in .25 are meant for short pistol barrels. I was wondering if you could handload .25 ACP quite cheaply, as it will use a small amount of powder, but .25 bullets are probably quite expensive.

One of the joys of .22 rimfire is being able to pick up a brick for $15.00 and be set for the month.(A week or two if you go to the range more often.)

browningguy
August 31, 2008, 11:03 AM
I believe the reason may be that only about 11 of them would sell.

I don't think anyone could think of a good reason to make one of these, .22 LR, .17 HMR, .22 Mag are all better rounds for just about any purpose you would use a .25 ACP for in a rifle or carbine. Being rimless the .25 would feed better, but that's the only advantage.

And this from someone that owns several .25 pistols. There have been machine pistols (Skorpion and MAC's) in .380, and many of the old blackpowder rounds in British 19th C. Rook rifles are similar in power and range. For example I have .380 Long and 360 no. 5 rook rifles that put out 120-140 gr. bullets at 1200-1400 fps. That's still considerably more than the .25 but it's pretty minimal.

smee781
August 31, 2008, 11:08 AM
A Ruger 10/25 conversion would be neat though.

jrfoxx
August 31, 2008, 11:31 AM
Problem is, it really doesnt do anything a .22lr can do just as well, and a while lot cheaper. The bullet is .251 vs .223, and the OAL is .065 shorter (so not enough to really matter much), and a .298 rim diameter vs .275 of the .22lr, and velocity of 800fps vs around 1500fps (based on Cartridges of the World on both, so YMMV in real life). So, really, other than CF vs RF and the .25acp being subsonic, there is just little difference on paper. Now, if you wanted a small caliber, really short cartridge plinker that could be suprresed to probly be pretty freakin close to silent, .25acp have a use in a rifle, as you wouldnt have any sonic crack, and wouldnt have to really worry about wether you ammo was sub or super sonic, like .22lr, since all .25acp should be, but, I dont think sub-sonic .22lr is exactly pricey, or hard to find, and I gather suppressed .22lr with subsonic ammo is darn near silent, so even there there's no real point.

Only think I can see is the ability to handload .25acp, so IF you could find a good selection of bullets, you could tailor it to probly be really accurate for a particular gun (wheres with .22lr, you just have to take what you can get with factory ammo,and while you may find one your gun really likes, it probly wouldnt be quite as good as handloads in .25acp), so you could have a real quiet, real accurate, reloadable, plinker or short range small critter gun I suppose.

Not sure what gun/caliber would make for a relatively cheap and/or easy conversion though, as I cant think of (or find at a skim of COTW), anything centerfire with very similar dimensions to minimze the process, but I'm not real up on how conversions are done, so I may be missing something that would easily work. Coverting a .22lr SEEMS to me like it would be easiest based on bullet/case dimensions and whatnot, but not sure how easy it is to covert something to go from RF to CF with the firing pin location and then the extractor from rimmed to rimless like browningguy touches on (he mentions the advantage in reliabilty, which reminded me of the rimmed/rimless difference)

Pat-inCO
August 31, 2008, 12:32 PM
One word answer - $$$$s.

I believe the reason may be that only about 11 of them would sell.
And that may be optimistic.

Why spend $8.50 to $10 for 50 when you can get excellent ammunition in a .22lr for $2.50 (not on sale)? :banghead:

The Lone Haranguer
August 31, 2008, 12:42 PM
Other than premium defensive JHPs, .25 ACP is one of the higher-priced centerfire pistol cartridges, not at all a cheap "plinker."

Old Grump
August 31, 2008, 01:08 PM
Because you could do more damage with a heavy duty fly swatter and a 22 is cheaper.

spwenger
August 31, 2008, 01:45 PM
...in 1986, I inquired about what firearms were available for civilian ownership. Note that this was in Yucatán and that Mexican permits are granted by the local regional military commander, whose policy may vary from region to region. At that time, there were three options. One was a falling-block, single-shot 12-gauge shotgun and two were .22-caliber pellet rifles that were powered by .25 ACP blanks. All were of Mexican manufacture. For some reason, one of the pellet rifles was marketed strictly for target use and the other for target use and "light hunting." I assume that air rifles, which would fire either .17- or .22-caliber pellets, were exempt from permit requirements. Thus it would appear that the .25 ACP blank gave the pellet a slightly higher velocity than an air rifle but, I would assume, a lower velocity than a .22 LR cartridge.

rcmodel
August 31, 2008, 03:02 PM
Those of you proposing handloading the .25 ACP have obviously never tried it.

Just handling the tiny cases & bullets is akin to stacking greased BB's while dancing the Macarena in football cleats.

rcmodel

The Lone Haranguer
August 31, 2008, 03:43 PM
Just handling the tiny cases & bullets is akin to stacking greased BB's while dancing the Macarena in football cleats.

http://images.mzzt.net/smiley_rofl.gif

Do you have experience to base this on? :uhoh: :)

Chuckulator
August 31, 2008, 06:19 PM
Wilson,

I think it would be a neat idea, too. I guess I would be one of the 11. I would prefer one in .32 or .380. Did you see the discussion about the .32 adapters?

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=387212&highlight=32+acp

I think a little carbine, or something like the Hummingbird rifle would be really cool. I would buy a Hummingbird if I had a spare $75,000 lying around.

Sheldon J
August 31, 2008, 06:34 PM
Yeah the .25 ACP is a very anemic round, there are some real hot 25 cal riffle rounds out there though.

Kind of Blued
September 1, 2008, 05:36 AM
Because .22LR is better at just about everything, and much cheaper.

Even 9mm is about 2/3 the price of .25 Auto. After a quick check, .45 ACP is right around .25 Auto prices.

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