[Tyris]

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/2872/takinggunsagainhc6.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4730/takinggunsagain1ov8.jpg

-T

[exar]

Are you surprised? In a situation like that, you're on your own. Sometimes the authorities are not your friends.

[General Geoff]

Ohhh boy, here we go again..

[Tyris]

I'm under no impression that police are friend to anyone except other police and their political puppet masters.

This does prove that the recent federal law (which followed katrina) is toothless as a deterrent. Hopefully *someone* will be prosecuted, but Im not holding my breath.

-T

[Ridgerunner665]

Yes...I am surprised.

They did pass laws against confiscation in times of emergency didn't they...after Katrina?

[General Geoff]

Yes well, it's OK to violate laws when it's the police who are violating them.

[denfoote]

Just because laws are passed does not mean the government will obey them!!

My prediction is that people who leave their firearms will return to find their gunsafes forcibly opened and their guns "mysteriously" gone!!

Good!!
We have a pretty good picture of one cop who has broken the law.
Let him be the first to be prosecuted under the anti confiscation law!!
YEAH RIGHT!!

[Standing Wolf]

Well, yeah, but we're not a police state, because after all, we've got weather prediction on TV.

Makes sense, right?

[Tyris]

It would not surprise me to see police thievery from gun safes.
These guys are trash at the bottom of the barrel.
I fully expect some brown shirts to use the "just following orders" defense.

-T

[denfoote]

It would not surprise me to see police thievery from gun safes.
These guys are trash at the bottom of the barrel.
I fully expect some brown shirts to use the "just following orders" defense.



You are going to see the same confiscations as with Katrina. Blackwater is already marshaling it's forces!!
I suspect that Blackwater will be charged with disarming the populace, by deadly force, and that the evac order will contain provisions that state that no firearms will be allowed to leave the city. Anyone found with a gun will be arrested or shot by "special" FEMA directives. Those who leave their guns will find their safes open, guns gone, and house searched when they return. By having BW do the deed, the government can claim no knowledge or responsibility for the act!!

Quote:
Security for Hurricane Gustav

Blackwater is compiling a list of qualified security personnel for possible deployment into areas affected by Hurricane Gustav.
Applicants must meet all items listed under the respective Officer posting and be US citizens. Contract length is TBD.

Law Enforcement Officers (all criteria must apply)

1. Current sworn [may be full time, part time or reserve]
2. With arrest powers
3. Armed status (must indicate Armed and/or Semi Auto. Revolver only not accepted)
expiration must be greater than 60 days out
4. Departmental credentials (not just a badge)
Armed Security Officers (all criteria must apply)

Only from the following states: OR, WA, CA, NV, NM, AZ, TX, FL, GA, SC, NC, VA, MD, IL, OK

1. Current/active/licensed/registered armed security officer
2. All training verification [unarmed and armed certificates of completion]
3. Current state issued face card indicting armed status [expiration must be greater than 60 days out]
Applicants will be required to provide an electronic copy of the above required credentials/documents, recent photo within
the last six months with response to this AD prior to consideration for deployment.

Personnel who meet the above qualifications and are interested, please send resumes and files to: 25505@blackwaterusa2.hrmdirect.com


Forward email



This email was sent to xxxxxx@aol.com by btw@blackwaterusa.com.
Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe™ | Privacy Policy. Email Marketing by


http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php?t=299258

The "officer" shown in your picture may indeed be a Blackwater employee!!

[Deadmanwalking_05]

That's why they shouldn't have went back to N.O LA

They would've been better off in another city and state (Not bashing the victims just saying)

[HK G3]

So... where is the NRA's legal team right now?

If it happens in NOLA, it can easily happen anywhere given a disaster - which is precisely when you need all of your tools the most.

[RaspberrySurprise]

Raaaage

[dogmush]

For the record, I called it:

Those are good citizens. They want to make sure law enforcment only confiscates high quality weapons. [/cynicism]


To play devil's advocate, they're not confiscating it's voluntary. If you don't want to give up your weapons, fine. You just cant get on the bus. Inland is that way. Got good shoes?

That's what they're going to say. and folks are going to buy it because they don't have any other way out of town. It'll be interesting to see if anyone gets their weapons back.

It'll also be interesting to see how many homes are robbed while empty.

[Thernlund]

Unbelievable.


-T.

[vis-à-vis]

And people want to ban flag burning.... A good reason for burning one if you ask me.

[Catherine]

I can't say what I REALLY want to say on this board.

!@#$%^&*()_+!

I am waiting for the people to tell them if you ______ and try to follow your orders from above on gun confiscation - I will shoot back. THINK that will work or just start another TEA PARTY in this nation? They will have to KILL or wound a lot of honest gun people who were NOT in the act of robbery, rape, murder, etc. and ONLY using their rights under the 'SECOND' plus that 'new law' while fleeing a bad storm. They have NO right to confiscate any firearms if the person is not in the act of a crime!

So WHERE are the GOOD police, military and security types who would REFUSE those orders from above NOW?!?

There are GOOD and BAD in ALL people and in ALL professions.

"America is at that awkward stage; it's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
Claire Wolfe

I think that if the people started to stand UP and fight back in this country... this crapola would STOP. NO offense.

Catherine

[Thernlund]

I am waiting for the people to tell them if you ______ and try to follow your orders from above on gun confiscation - I will shoot back.

I was thinking just that Catherine.


-T.


EDIT:So WHERE are the GOOD police, military and security types who would REFUSE those orders from above NOW?!?

I think that if those good LE and MIL are smart, they will not refuse their orders from above, but merely fail to carry them out. They're in a much better position to do some good and make a difference if they keep themselves in the loop rather than taking a stand and getting bounced for it.

In order for taking a stand on principle to really work, you need near 100% participation. Obviously that's a problem in NOLA.

[Catherine]

I think that the good ones may ignore those 'orders' too.

It is a shame that THEY don't tell the higher ups to go ______!

Maybe it is time for another TEA PARTY in this country because somewhere along the line... people have had enough. ENOUGH of all kinds of crapola. I think that Waco, Ruby Ridge, false flag alerts, outside and 'inside' jobs, etc. were TESTING grounds for the sheep and for the rest of the population including ones with common sense/brains who are AWAKE if you get my drift.

I can't write more about this because it will most likely get deleted or closed - you know how that goes.

This is about GUN confiscation - gun control = CONTROL. People control! Period! Same old - same old.

ALL of this is more social engineering... just to see how FAR the NWO power control freaks in BOTH parties can go/control the population along with all of those NEW laws, regulations and acts. FEMA being put under Homeland INsecurity is a joke. It was stupid from the gitgo. It was a brilliant MOVE for the con artists in the D and R parties though... whoopee more GUN CONTROL and other CONTROL POWERS! Those guys/gals are salivating with their new found powers... mark my words.

I woke up my husband and told him about this. I can't say what he said HERE but he thinks that something else may hit the fan. Same old garbage.

Claire Wolfe, I think that the time may be sooner than you think.

Catherine
PS: I have to watch it because I do NOT want them to shut down this thread.

[Thernlund]

I have to watch it because I do NOT want them to shut down this thread.

Mm. Well, I don't think you're there yet. :)

I think you're echoing everyone's frustration. This happened once and it was a travesty. Now it's happening again just like there was no other time. And people just lay down for it again.

I feel your pain. It is very frustrating.


-T.

[peyton]

Glad you were quick with the camera to capture the news caption. I can not find anything on the net, not even CNN!! I knew something was up when the news mentioned people going through metal detectors for a bus ride!!

[Catherine]

Thanks for showing the CNN coverage of GUN confiscation to us on this board.

There are tons of stories that do NOT make the headlines or main stream media every single day. Same as when laws get shoved through or something stuck on the bottom of a bill (Congress). I can't go there now - political. Geesh!

Some of you should be checking out some alternative news websites on the internet if you are not satisfied with the usual censored 30 second sound bites or pablum that you get on a daily basis.

THANKS again for this gun confiscation news story.

They will SPIN this and say that guns were NOT allowed on a bus, train, etc. now so THEIR gun confiscation was 'legal'. !@#$%^&*()_+! Mark my words on that too!

Catherine

[Tyris]

Credit goes to a fellow on SilencerTalk.com

I posted there that I would be cross posting his pictures. I tip my hat to ArevaloSocom. I do not know if he is a member here.

-T

[Catherine]

Thank you and thank everyone involved for me please.

Keep your powder dry!

Catherine

[wideym]

You guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

If NewOrleans residents want to evacuate on GOVERMENT buses, then they are not allowed weapons. Even Greyhound has a no weapons policy. Besides if they are also going to a GOVERMENT re-education... I mean temp shelter, then no weapons are allowed. Goverment money=goverment rules.

It's not like everyone had 2hours advance notice, it's been on the news for days now. Instead of crying foul, citizens should have made plans ahead of time to leave without Uncle Suger paying for everything. If you don't have a car then how about getting a ride with neighbors or a group of car-less people could charter a bus by pooling their money.

You get what you pay for, expecially if you don't pay at all.

[Catherine]

I just sent an email and a THR LINK to my Montana Shooting Sports Association - pro gun group about this issue.

http://www.mtssa.org/

Catherine

[peyton]

I think the issue is did the people know they would lose the handguns PRIOR to this BUS RIDE??? WAS IT POSTED anywhere?? Will they get them back????

[JohnBT]

Heck, maybe they were trying to carry guns onto government-paid charter flights. We need more info.

From CNN - "Charter flights, paid for with federal funds, carried thousands of evacuees to other Southern cities. The air evacuation was part of a detailed plan developed in response to criticism after Katrina,..."

[Old School]

wideym Says:
You guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

If NewOrleans residents want to evacuate on GOVERMENT buses, then they are not allowed weapons. Even Greyhound has a no weapons policy. Besides if they are also going to a GOVERMENT re-education... I mean temp shelter, then no weapons are allowed. Goverment money=goverment rules.

It's not like everyone had 2hours advance notice, it's been on the news for days now. Instead of crying foul, citizens should have made plans ahead of time to leave without Uncle Suger paying for everything. If you don't have a car then how about getting a ride with neighbors or a group of car-less people could charter a bus by pooling their money.

You get what you pay for, expecially if you don't pay at all.

If these are the facts, wideym is probably right on this one. I was as concerned as anyone when I first started reading this thread. But if the only thing that happened was they they were told that they could not get on a public bus, where people are not allowed to have weapons normally anyway, then this is a non story.

[LKB3rd]

You get what you pay for, expecially if you don't pay at all.
What about that 30% that goes missing from my paycheck every two weeks? The government gets their money from us. They pretty much always use it for things that are bad for us, but that is another discussion.

[wideym]

I worked at Ft. Chaffee (Reserve Component Manuver Area) when Katrina evacutes arrived there on buses. The buses were stopped at the front gate and all weapons were confiscated by local PD. Pistols and knives being most common. Many of the pistols still had price stickers on them and no questions were asked about if it was stolen or not. If they wanted it returned to them later, they filled out a tag with their name, address, and Drivers licence. Most didn't.

Can you honestly say that NOLA residents who were evacutated after Katrina wouldn't expect a no weapon policy now?

[Catherine]

So if it is a government ORDER, rule, regulation and a 'government bus' that we the people PAY for they don't have to follow the SECOND? Geesh. You believe that it is OK because it is a $goobmint$ bus? Wow!

I think that Uncle Sugar needs some COFFEE to wake up along with the rest of this nation because if you are leaving in ANY way... you should be ALLOWED to have your firearm with you.

I have heard about the gun rules for those other transportation companies. I do NOT know all of them verbatim though. I choose NOT to use them at this time in my life too. Someday - I may have to compromise but so far... no train or bus for me. I have not flown in years too.

The issue is about GUN confiscation and GUN CONTROL to the masses no matter HOW they leave the area. Rich, middle class and poor... they should have the right to keep and bear arms NO matter how the heck they GET OUT OF TOWN. That includes walking, using their own vehicle and going with other family members or friends. If a person did not drive, 'hitch' a ride with others and had to use a BUS or whatever... you think that they have to compromise because it is a government bus?

Interesting concept but I don't agree with it even if it is in the RULE BOOK.

I wonder if they knew that their guns would NOT be allowed 'ahead of time' too. Hhhmmmm. Get their guns back later on and the same old speech?! Ha ha!

I do NOT believe in being 'on the dole' aka welfare system among other things so we will not go down THAT road. It is not allowed HERE anyway.

I would have LEFT earlier even if I had to walk, drive myself, hitch a ride with a close friend or family member - paying them for GAS and paying my own way OUT! I would not stay IF I lived there which I would not choose to do because of it being BELOW sea level. I heard that it was very nice in some of those areas though from my late husband and friends who were there for military - many years ago, work, vacation, etc.

I happen to think IT IS A STORY about gun control/gun confiscation NO matter how those people leave especially on a TAXPAYER FUNDED BUS with rules made by ANTI GUNNERS - NWO government led PEOPLE CONTROL freaks!

Catherine

[dogmush]

You guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

If NewOrleans residents want to evacuate on GOVERMENT buses, then they are not allowed weapons. Even Greyhound has a no weapons policy. Besides if they are also going to a GOVERMENT re-education... I mean temp shelter, then no weapons are allowed. Goverment money=goverment rules.



I'm 90% certain, just from the footage I've seen, that that's the case. They are checking for weapons before allowing people on the Gov. run evac infrastructure. (be it plane, train or automobile)

And everyone see's that as reasonable that's why coverage is spotty at best.

2 points if I may. (or things to consider)

1. Will they get them back/what is NO doing for storage. If you are going to take citizen's property as part of a mandated evac, then there should be a good provision for safe sotrage and return of said property. I'm not saying there isin't, but NOPD has a bad history of returning legal firearms. Time will tell in this case.

2. If the .gov takes peoples self defense weapons (guns, knives, pointy sticks, whatnot) Does the .gov then assume responsability for their safety for the remander of the emergancy? I would argue that morally they do. If you make being unarmed a requirment for shelter, then you are responsable for the safety of everyone in the shalter until you return their means of SD to them. Seems simple to me, but we all know it's not current case law.


It's also worth noting that no matter how wound up us THRers get, this will be, in the end, a non issue. Those of us that care about not being disarmed, almost by definition, won't put ourselves in a position where we have to get on the bus, and those getting on the bus have already willingly put themselves in the .govs hands, so the lack of a firearm probably won't bother them as much. Almost by accident, demographicly, they've chosen to disarm only those that won't complain too much about it. as opposed to Katrina where by going door-to-door amongst those that stayed, they demographicly chose the self-sufficant types that would complain.

And as I pointed out in my first post, and wideym alluded to, it's not actually a confiscation. You're free to keep your gun if you want. You don't have to get on the bus. So no matter the bad taste this gives all us, it's very probably legal.

So WHERE are the GOOD police, military and security types who would REFUSE those orders from above NOW?!?

I'm in Iraq. So far, this is all NOPD officers. (at least that's all I see on the coverage) I think it's beyond optimistic to the point of lunacy to expect NOPD officers to risk much for the constituional rights of the refugees. A department doesn't get their reputation overnight.

[yokel]

The big loser today was the Constitution itself, and to the spirit of liberty which animated the American people who drafted and ratified the Second Amendment.

[yokel]

Disarmament remains the tool of choice for subjugating blacks in the South. Evidently they're too careless and stupid to carry guns on the bus, and we should be leaving all weapons in the hands of caretaker elites.

[pbearperry]

Were the guns confiscated while they were still in the state of Louisiana or while they were entering another state,or while they were getting on a train?I ask because I didn't see this on TV.

[ZeSpectre]

You guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
If NewOrleans residents want to evacuate on GOVERMENT buses

Sorry, WHO'S buses? I'm pretty sure that it's taxpayers dollars going to fund all of that.

Still, someone else made a comment about those who have chosen to give themselves over to .gov's embrace. Ask for .gov's help, play by .gov's rules.

I don't like it at all personally and I think it's a VIOLATION of Constitutionally protected rights, but I can see why they think they have a point.

[TexasRifleman]

I think that Uncle Sugar needs some COFFEE to wake up along with the rest of this nation because if you are leaving in ANY way... you should be ALLOWED to have your firearm with you.

When you get on the bus you don't know what your destination is. You may very well end up in a state where possession of the firearm is a crime, if it wasn't already.

The guns didn't appear to be in locked containers, which would get you within the FOPA standards potentially.

There needs to be some common sense on the part of people in general as well as the Gov. but I notice that no one is upset about the morons that tried to board public transportation armed, which would generally be illegal even with a CHL and no hurricane involved.......

In fact in normal conditions these folks would have been arrested and charged with illegally carrying a concealed weapon if they attempted to board public transportation while armed so in this case the Gov is actually being LENIENT.

But it's no fun to blame people when it's easier to just wail about "the man"......

[kentucky_Dave]

Besides if they are also going to a GOVERMENT re-education... I mean temp shelter, then no weapons are allowed. Goverment money=goverment rules.

---start mild rant----
That is just plain wrong.
“Government Money” is our money, taken from our paychecks for every misappropriation imaginable. :cuss:
Welfare, funding invasive gun purchase and ownership restriction programs and NOW being used to strip away the 2A rights of citizens who are attempting to protect themselves and their families in the face of potential disaster is just plain criminal. :fire:
That is just appalling.

Last time I checked, stealing money and guns was a crime.
If a citizen does, it is jail time. If the government does it it’s OK?!?
What is happening to our nation? Where did all these sissies come from, and who voted them in? :banghead:
government = workers who are supposed to be public servants, working for every citizen’s interest.
“By the People, FOR the People” sound familiar?
Government workers are stealing on the job…fire them and prosecute, just like any other job.
These people are paid by stealing our money before we even see it in our paychecks.
That means they work for ME by God, and I am not required to tolerate an employee stealing from me, why should the governing body be permitted to do so?
---end mild rant----

I would be fine with them storing the guns in the cargo hold and returning them to the owner once they reach the drop off point, but outright denying people one of their basic rights is absolutely criminal.

I know I am on the fringes and leaning over the edge of a political topic, but this is so closely tied it is nearly impossible to differentiate the issues at hand.

If the NRA does not step up (litigiously), who can we turn to, to stand for us?
It’s obvious we cannot lean on the elected officials to do what’s right in these situations…so….
Do we need to form our own group to swamp Washington with emails, letters, calls and paperwork so deep that they finally give in and leave law abiding citizen’s right to self preservation the heck alone?
Does this organization currently exist? (no need to re-create the wheel)
I thought that was the NRA’s intended role …must be mistaken.

[TexasRifleman]

I thought that was the NRA’s intended role …must be mistaken.

NRA generally defends people that are not breaking laws.

With Katrina confiscations the victims were not breaking existing laws.

It's already illegal to carry a firearm on public transportation, has been for years.

[Zip7]

On the flip side, if they allowed these people to get on the buses with all the firearms they could carry, and there were murders on the buses, how would that help gun owners?

No mistake, some of the people taking the buses ARE CERTAINLY gangstas who are shooting each other on a daily basis in NO. I'd say chances are there would be shootings for sure.

[yokel]

This kind of thinking is exactly what tyranny loves. Given the choice between an ignorant populace and a disarmed populace, any competent despot will choose ignorance, because they can be talked out of their guns along with everything else, as long as thousands of anxious locals without a way to flee climb aboard buses bound for points north and "safety".

[csmkersh]

CNN has apparently decided to bury the story. Do a google and you'll only find mention of it in formums but not the media and certainly not CNN.

[Don Gwinn]

Is that a bus station? Airport? Train station?
Greyhound, or someone else?

Whoever it is, are you normally allowed to board their buses/planes/trains carrying weapons?

Were those guns in someone's baggage, or were they trying to carry them on a bus/plane/train?

I'd like more information than a couple of screen shots. I'm assuming the OP saw the TV reports those came from, so please tell us more about what's actually happening.

[Arrogant Bastard]

Being a politically aware gun owner (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=4762216&postcount=10) means having a chronic smoldering gastric ulcer with occasional hemorrhagic flare-ups.

I may have to adopt this as my sig.

[JohnBT]

This thread was done back on page one.

"It would not surprise me to see police thievery from gun safes.
These guys are trash at the bottom of the barrel.
I fully expect some brown shirts to use the "just following orders" defense."

[hso]

Looks like this one started out with incomplete or misleading information and now we know a lot more.

The NOLA PD isn't going around to people's homes and confiscating firearms like happened in Katrina.

The NOLA PD is not allowing people to carry guns onto buses and planes and trains, but then there isn't any legal way to do that anyway short of having a badge. It is unknown if there is any provision to check baggage and if the guns that are cased as per regulation are being banned or not. More information is needed here.

They are allowing people to use an amnesty drop to deposit weapons they are carrying without arresting them for violating carry laws. Gunshop representatives are supposedly providing a dropoff/storage service. The shops are charging a fee for the service.

Some destination refugee sites are confiscating weapons. If they're government run or volunteer sites is unclear and more information is needed here as well.

Tinfoil is cheap, rumor mongering is easy. Patient assembly of facts is a little too difficult for some folks.

[Big45]

Tinfoil is cheap, rumor mongering is easy. Patient assembly of facts is a little too difficult for some folks.

Just business as usual on THR. This used to be a great forum.

[taprackbang]

"I'm under no impression that police are friend to anyone except other police and their political puppet masters."

Here .. Here
I share the 'raage' and I am pissed. My opinion of police sinks by the minute.

[rbernie]

The NOLA PD is not allowing people to carry guns onto buses and planes and trains, but then there isn't any legal way to do that anyway short of having a badge.Why would there be a presumption on anyone's part that the normal laws of the land would be temporarily suspended during an evacuation?

I think that the folks who contributed to the breathless 'JBT' comments should be patently ashamed of themselves, especially those who suggested (without a shred of proof) that pictures of officers enforcing concealed weapons laws on mass transportation somehow implies that the po-leece are gonna be jacking peoples houses.

Dang.

Just dang.

[taprackbang]

Whoever it is, are you normally allowed to board their buses/planes/trains carrying weapons?

Sure, but Don look at the bottom of the TV screen.

GUNS AND GUSTAV ... BAD COMBINATION

Oh, Thank you, big brother government for teaching me what is a bad combination. Just let our jack booted thugs help you.
Gee, CNN, were not shaping public opinion now, are we?!!

[AntiqueCollector]

Is it legal in LA to carry on public transportation within the state?

And people can bring guns while flying by following the FOPA rules and individual airline's policies (checked luggage, unloaded, etc.).

[rbernie]

Sure, but Don look at the bottom of the TV screen.

GUNS AND GUSTAV ... BAD COMBINATION

Oh, Thank you, big brother government for teaching me what is a bad combination. Just let our jack booted thugs help you.
Gee, CNN, were not shaping public opinion now, are we?!!Complaining about bad CNN/mass media captioning and declaring the police to be JBTs who are illegally performing confiscations are vastly different things. Based upon the facts known at this time, I have no quarrel with the former but take vast exception to the latter.

[Zedo]

Anybody have any "reliable source" information to provide a foundation for the hysteria?

I'd be interested in seeing a PUBLISHED mandate from government -- either municipal, state, or judicial.

[ravenwolf71]

It sounds to me like the USA is turning into what it fought against in the past. That's a big slap in the face to everyone who gave up their lives fighting for this country.
I feel the decline of western civilization comming quick. Sad to say.

[fatelk]

Very well said, hso. I too am waiting for more information before jumping to any conclusions.


And people want to ban flag burning.... A good reason for burning one if you ask me.
This incendiary comment, on the other hand (from page 1), offends me greatly. I don't want to stir it up, but just couldn't let this sort of insane statement go unchallenged.

What does the flag represent to you?

Apparantly to some it represents the tyranny of "The Man", JBT's who want to oppress you.

To me it represents the blood and sacrifice of millions of America's finest over the last couple centuries. Why in the world would someone want to dishonor that because of the actions (real or not) of some thugs who themselves dishonor what our country stands for?

[taprackbang]

Yeah they are different, (media / JBTs) and both bad! LA has some pretty good gun laws, so now we can just suspend all laws on a whim just because of a hurricane?

Why were there Cali Highway Patrol serving in an arrest capacity LA after Katrina? They have no jurisdiction in LA! If some policeman came into my domicile who was from another state he would have a world of problems real quick..

[lax]

It seems some here would be fine with segregated bussing since according to them it's the gov't bus so any gov't imposed rules are fine if you want to ride the bus to safety.

[rbernie]

LA has some pretty good gun laws, so now we can just suspend all laws on a whim just because of a hurricane?What evidence do you possess to suggest that laws are getting 'suspended on a whim'? Or are you just guessing?

Why were there Cali Highway Patrol serving in an arrest capacity LA after Katrina? They have no jurisdiction in LA! Why are we talking about Katrina? That was three years ago. This one is called Gustav. The discussions are specific to the evacuation of folks pre-Gustav and whether or not they were legally or illegally disarmed.

What happened three years ago is intellectually important but it is NOT relevant to this discussion, in my opinion. It serves only to inflame, and adds ZERO actual data to the picture.

[ravenwolf71]

Sounds like the police aren't there to help, they are there to make people helpless.:mad::fire::cuss:

[Mr_Rogers]

The most disturbing mention on this thread is the Blackwater involvement.

It appears that the potential recruits would have to be LE qualified. In that case, why can't they be seconded directly to local authority rather than being supplied by Blackwater?

What status do Blackwater personnel have when working under contract to a US LE entity?

What would be the legal situation if you got into a fight with a Blackwater employee versus a local LE officer?

How soon before we see Blackwater employees doing SWAT no-notice drug busts because they are supposed to have training the local PD does not have?

We supposedly have constitutional protection against the use of military forces on the mainland US but this protection is being eroded more rapidly than New Orleans's levees with the border war and the introduction of pseudo civilian operations such as Blackwater into the domestic US.

[ravenwolf71]

Think about it , kind of sounds like the TV show " JERICO "

[yokel]

Those without the means to leave town by packing their pets and possessions into their cars ought to be subject to forfeiture of civil rights and their only resource for the protection of their liberty and property?

Disarm or begin walking northward, eh?

When Machiavelli said that "to be disarmed is to be contemptible," he meant not simply to be held in contempt, but to deserve it; by disarming men tyrants render them at once brutish and pusillanimous.

[Zedo]

Flag burning represents a country which puts civil rights and free expression (content) ahead of iconographic symbolism (form). Legal bars to the free expression represented in flag burning more assuredly destroys the civil rights the flag represents than any inceration of colored fabric.

As a disabled veteran who defended the US Constitution "from all enemies, foreign and domestic" let me quote Voltaire:

"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

[rbernie]

Those without the means to leave town by packing their pets and possessions into their cars ought be subject to forfeiture of civil rights and their only resource for the protection of their liberty and property?
You seem to be missing the point. If they had tried to board an airplane or a bus two weeks ago while armed, they would have been arrested and thrown in the pokey. Why is it that there was no outrage about such a state of affairs, oh, two weeks ago, but there is a hue and cry today? What are all you 'raageful' people doing EVERY DAY to get the weapons restrictions (or even ID restrictions) imposed upon those using mass transportation removed? The simple answer is - not a dang thing.

The laws being enforced today are the same laws being enforced last week. The only difference now is that you get to sit in your post-Katrina quarterbacking chair and spout rhetoric about how Da Man Be Holdin' You Down An' Stealin' Yor Loot.

I am humbled to be in the company of such Patriots. :rolleyes:

[SamTuckerMTNMAN]

I am all for resisting BS

but keep in mind; cramped busses, no ID on many, unknown people, public transport, risky breakdown of law and order, and relatively untrained LEO in charge of transportation and logistics. You could expect this. Being prepared doesn't just mean having a stockpile of food and ammo . . . . it also means being able to DRIVE your family our of harms way or otherwise not depend on lowest bidder transport in emergency if possible. It also means secure, lo profile storage when away from home.

If I had to carry a weapon on one of those busses, I'd take some effort to make sure no-one-knew.

st

[taprackbang]

Why are we talking about Katrina?

Cause this is just a repeat of that scenario.
Nope not guessing at all. It's obvious. What evidence do I possess of laws being suspended? Uh, cause If I remember correctly, LA has (or used to) have open carry which actually beats out our State which has concealed carry.

Infringement of the 2nd Amendment should never happen under any circumstances, even natural disasters. WAKE UP!
I can see it now, all of the LEOs trying to save face.

[rbernie]

Uh, cause If I remember correctly, LA has (or used to) have open carry which actually beats out our State which has concealed carry.
When did LA law allow legal open or concealed carry on American Airlines or Greyhound or Trailways?

Not so much.

I can see it now, all of the LEOs trying to save face.I'm not a LEO; I'm just capable of critical thought.

Infringement of the 2nd Amendment should never happen under any circumstances, even natural disasters. I agree, BUT IT ALREADY HAS. The laws are in place. The LEOs are enforcing the laws.

What have you done to roll back these laws on carryin' during transport?

[george29]

If TPTB were going door-to-door I would have been outraged, this is a public transportation terminal / refugee terminal, women, children, elderly all on an emotional rollercoaster, the last thing anyone needs is an armed person that forgot his/her meds on a interstate busride to the unknown. This is NOT gun confiscation, this is law enforcement at a sensible level. Y'all need to stop being Chicken-Little everytime someone yells "The sky is falling." In the end, no one will pay any attention at all and the moniker "Crazy Gun Owners" will be appropriate.

[yokel]

You seem to be missing the point

I don't think so.

This is not simply about whether firearms can legally be brought on to public transportation it is about whether blatant racism and classism targeting black people and other vulnerable citizens is acceptable.

[TexasRifleman]

Nope not guessing at all. It's obvious. What evidence do I possess of laws being suspended? Uh, cause If I remember correctly, LA has (or used to) have open carry which actually beats out our State which has concealed carry.

Uh, it's been illegal to carry, concealed or open, on public mass transit in pretty much every state for many many years now. On the interstate carriers, Greyhound, Amtrak and the airlines it's specifically against the law.

This is news to you?

This is not simply about whether firearms can be brought on to public transportation it is about whether blatant racism and classism targeting black people and other vulnerable citizens is acceptable.

You gotta be kidding. You can't make a race issue out of this in your wildest imagination.

Where were you a month ago? Were you actively working to get 2A rights restored for those that use mass transit? It's been illegal for years......

You have one photo from one CNN news story and now it's blatant racism? Maybe on the part of CNN perhaps......

[gc70]

Why would there be a presumption on anyone's part that the normal laws of the land would be temporarily suspended during an evacuation?

Leave your weapons at home if you want to travel by bus or train because they do not allow weapons in your possession OR in checked baggage. Greyhound (http://www.greyhound.com/home/en/TicketsAndTravel/TravelingByBus.aspx): "We have a zero tolerance for alcohol, drugs, weapons and unruly behavior." Amtrak (http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Amtrak/am2Copy/Title_Image_Copy_Page&c=am2Copy&cid=1080080553878&ssid=147): "The following kinds of items are prohibited as both checked and carry-on baggage: Any type of gun, firearm, ammunition, explosives, or weapon."

[kentucky_Dave]

Part of my previous rant revolved around the fact that we cannot determine if persons guns are being transported with them and given back at the destination or not.

I hope that is the case (return).

I will say it is pretty cool of the govt to be giving the people a ride out (even though I don't care to pay for it) since they typically won't take care of themselves every other day. Entitlement programs work :rolleyes:
They'll probably hand out the debit cards as they exit the bus too...lol

That said, there's nothing like depending on big brother for a lift, only to be dropped in a strange city unarmed and not knowing if you will ever get your legally owned gun back.

[TexasRifleman]

That said, there's nothing like depending on big brother for a lift, only to be dropped in a strange city unarmed and not knowing if you will ever get your legally owned gun back.

Again, in normal circumstances these people would be arrested and charged with illegal carrying of a weapon. They would face trial, be convicted, and lose the gun anyway. They would likely spend some time in jail for it.

Would you rather see that?

And frankly you're making quite an assumption on whether or not the guns were legally owned in the first place. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't.

The existing gun laws are the problem, but those didn't come up just this week. Those laws need to go..... focus on that.

Use this incident to show why carrying a legal weapon on public transportation should be a legal thing to do. Not just during a hurricane but every day.

That's how something like this could push things forward, not the crying of racism, stormtroopers, etc.

It's gun laws themselves that are racist and classist but that's nothing new.

[yokel]

Let us not be coy or disingenuous.

The reality of the matter is that poor blacks and the poor in general will be severely and disproportionally affected by this disarmament action.

That really doesn’t matter, does it?

[SCKimberFan]

Uh, it's been illegal to carry, concealed or open, on public mass transit in pretty much every state for many many years now. On the interstate carriers, Greyhound, Amtrak and the airlines it's specifically against the law.

In GA you can carry on public transportation with a handgun permit. I realize this is not germaine to this thread but get correct information before posting.

[george29]

That said, there's nothing like depending on big brother for a lift, only to be dropped in a strange city unarmed and not knowing if you will ever get your legally owned gun back.

For all those on welfare; don't bite the hand that feeds you and please deposit your weapons before boarding the bus. This is the way of the socialist-liberal.

For those that worked all their lives and raised decent children; don't forget to take your weapons with you in your personal transportation to secure yourselves as you have always done. This is the way of the libertarian.

I don't criticize what I can't understand, but I did quit my previous job when they were sending me to Lake Charles, LA last month, I want nothing to do with LA after Katrina.

[Crunker1337]

Let us not call this even gun confiscation, but rather a display of how terrible laws that prevent carrying while in mass transit are.

[TexasRifleman]

In GA you can carry on public transportation with a handgun permit. I realize this is not germaine to this thread but get correct information before posting.

I did get correct information. I said it's illegal in pretty much every state. You've shown 1. So, it's still illegal in pretty much every state.

And you're right, it has little to do with this, but since you brought it up......

pretty much: (slang): Almost, nearly, approximately

[hso]

The Blackwater statement was a leap off a logical cliff. There is nothing, NADA, ZIP, anywhere that anyone can find saying anything about Blackwater being involved in anything having to do with Gustav (except for the fevered imagination of a brain overheated by too much tinfoil in the Labor Day Weekend sun). Made up BS.

Jump off that train of thought as quick as you can since it left the station with no one at the controls and his headed down the track with no destination.

It would do everyone a world of good if you'd just consider the front page of this to be misinformation. I won't attribute the sinister intent of disinformation and instead assume error instead of malice. That being the case, everyone should take a step back, get a good breath and shake off the adrenaline before posting.

[Mr_Rogers]

HSO,

Touchy, touchy !

This is a post by Denfoote

Blackwater is compiling a list of qualified security personnel for possible deployment into areas affected by Hurricane Gustav.
Applicants must meet all items listed under the respective Officer posting and be US citizens. Contract length is TBD.

Perhaps he made up his post but, having no reason to doubt him, it is clear that Blackwater is, at least, preparing for a possible "Contract" (note the use of that word) to temporarily supply security in NO.

Why are you so touchy on this subject, perhaps you could expand? The post from Denfoote appears to be a copy of an actual e-mail.

Your "East of Tennessee" address would suggest, North Carolina?

[TexasRifleman]

Why are you so touchy on this subject, perhaps you could expand?

Seriously dude, did you read what he wrote?

You are going to see the same confiscations as with Katrina. Blackwater is already marshaling it's forces!!
I suspect that Blackwater will be charged with disarming the populace, by deadly force,

We're supposed to take that crap seriously? That's just spewing for the sake of spewing.....

If Blackwater is being hired for post Gustav security there is nothing out there about it.

The email this guy quotes says:

Blackwater is compiling a list of qualified security personnel for possible deployment into areas affected by Hurricane Gustav.

So, Blackwater is gathering names just in case.. that's not quite the same thing is it? We'll see if it actually happens. Til then it's just rumor mongering.

[rbernie]

Let us not be coy or disingenuous.

The reality of the matter is that poor blacks and the poor in general will be severely and disproportionally affected by this disarmament action.

That really doesn’t matter, does it?
Of course it does. It's why the RKBA effort is so important. But it's got nothing to do with Gustav; it's a fact of life every day.

This thread has run quite a course; from illegal confiscations in violation of LA state law, to JBTs looting peoples homes, to Blackwater, and finally on to the meat of the matter - many gun laws target those who need protection most.

I agree with the latter conclusion, but cannot see how Gustav's presence/absence changes that. I couldn't legally carry on Greyhound last week, and I can't legally do it this week.

There is a positive take-away from what I saw in the CNN report; it does appear that the LEOs are relaxing enforcement of the no-carry restrictions and allowing people to ditch the weapons and get on board rather than simply herding them up and shipping them off to Holding until the storm passes. That makes sense from a lot of different perspectives, and I am gratified to see common sense employed.

[PTK]

So... since it's quite illegal for them to be taking your gun, is lethal force legal?

[rbernie]

So... since it's quite illegal for them to be taking your gun, is lethal force legal?
Dude, did you *read* the thread? They are not illegally taking guns - they are legally enforcing carry restrictions in mass transportation.

Your premise is flawed.

[ArfinGreebly]

Wow.

Whence comes this idea that the media presents accurate information meant to intelligently inform?

My own experience with the media is that their primary objective is 1) to keep people riled up, while 2) providing misdirection.

Those whose emotions are inflamed by TV images would to well to keep in mind that it's not about keeping you apprised of facts you need to know to conduct your life, it's about the drama and the ratings.

Delivered in a conservative tone of voice, of course.

Here's a suggestion: dig a little deeper.

When you see "facts" on TV, hear a "story" on TV, what you see and hear are INDICATORS that there is information to be had.

Major media doesn't deal in truth. It deals in emotion, laced with sufficient factual fragments to create the appearance of plausibility.

Dig a little deeper.

Contact people who are on the ground.

You know what takes work? Learning the truth of a story IN SPITE of what the media does.

See something inflammatory on "the tube?"

Investigate. There will usually be more. Often, there will be less.

[Mr_Rogers]

Texas Riflenan, HSO.

I did not say that Blackwater people were already deployed in NO. I said that they were preparing.

If Blackwater is being hired for post Gustav security there is nothing out there about it.

I provide a link to the Blackwater website.

http://www.blackwaterusa.com/jobs/default_contract.asp

If I can find the required link by a visit to the Blackwater website and you had no idea this is going on I suggest you both need an intel injection.

Designated Defensive Marksman (DDM)

Qualifications:
1. Three (3) years experience in defensive marksman skill sets to include;
(1) protective security advances and site assessments and
(2) Close Quarters Battle (CQB) techniques for clearing and occupying sites.
(3) Tactical firearms training,
(4) Sniper/Observer training, and
(5) high risk entry techniques.
2. Completed or served at least three (3) years in military, law enforcement, or executive commercial protection.
3. One (1) year of experience shall have been obtained in personal protection security assignments with demonstrated skill.
4. Three (3) years of training can be substituted for one (1) year of experience. A four (4) year degree may be substituted for one (1) year of training.
5. Experience can be gained in the employ of any Federal, State, or Local military or law enforcement agency or executive protection services with military, law enforcement or commercial entities.
6. Shall provide evidence of completion from an accredited Sniper School.

FOR FURTHER SCREENING SEND RESUME AND DD-214 TO: 18599-CJB-0@blackwaterusa2.hrmdirect.com

[Don Gwinn]

I have no doubt that Blackwater could be gearing up to go into hurricane-affected areas. They apparently turned a profit providing security and services after Katrina, and would like to turn a profit again.

If you want to say that they get such contracts because they're a semi-secret ultra-legal mercenary army created for the purpose of disarming the Great American Patriot, you need evidence.
Bring the evidence or be prepared for the fact that people aren't going to take your assertion seriously. It's that simple.
The first hurdle you'd have to leap to make that case is that not one police agency objected to the confiscations that happened after Katrina, and there were dozens represented. If the police on the scene didn't have a problem with it, why do we need evil mercenaries to do the job they won't do?

By the way, I was at Blackwater USA a week ago, and I didn't meet anybody there who sounded happy about gun control, much less confiscation. Granted, we didn't train with the secret mercenary ninjas, but the instructors, armorers and executives we met did not impress me as people who would be happy with the idea of confiscating weapons from citizens. They appear to make significant amounts of money training private citizens to shoot.

[csmkersh]

It's already illegal to carry a firearm on public transportation, has been for years.



Other than planes, I don't know of a federal law prohibiting firearms nor have I been able to locate a Louisiana law banning firearms on "public transportation." Would you provide a citation on that?

[Don Gwinn]

Mr. Rogers, what was the DDM posting for? Was that intended for this thread? It doesn't seem to have anything to do with the discussion.
Did you intend to copy and paste the requirements for the hurricane positions?

[TexasRifleman]

Other than planes, I don't know of a federal law prohibiting firearms nor have I been able to locate a Louisiana law banning firearms on "public transportation."

All of the Interstate carriers; Greyhound, Amtrak, and the airlines all specifically ban it and have for a very long time.

Evacuations are interstate pretty much by definition.

This isn't an incident of riding the bus across town, this is interstate.

[Aguila Blanca]

Can you honestly say that NOLA residents who were evacutated after Katrina wouldn't expect a no weapon policy now?
Considering all the post-Katrina hoopla about the enaction of no fiscation laws ... yeah, I can see why some people might have believed their guns would not be confiscated.

[Mr_Rogers]

Sorry Don,
Since the DDM requirement was in the same text below the Gustav requirements I read it as a generic requirement. My error.

Regardless of this error, if you view the link, clearly Blackwater anticipates (anticipated) a job in NO. Thankfully for the NO residents it looks as though their return to NO is going to be much better than Katrina.

[AntiqueCollector]

I did get correct information. I said it's illegal in pretty much every state. You've shown 1. So, it's still illegal in pretty much every state.

Legal in VT to carry on public transportation (but not school buses).

[halfacop]

nevermind......it was already pointed out by the time I got my posting done....and explained.

Yes - BW is certainly begining to compile names for security in N.O. if needed. I would argue that they would be doing any type of organized gun confinscation however......

I would anticipate plenty of enforced curfew's but no door kicking and gun grabbing from law abiding citizen folk......

[TexasRifleman]

Legal in VT to carry on public transportation (but not school buses).

Across state lines? Interstate public transportation? That's the point here, interstate travel... again. This isn't about a bus ride across town.

I don't know of any interstate public carrier that allows firearms to be carried by passengers. If you know of one I'd love to see it.

I think it SHOULD be legal, but I don't know of any.

[Mr_Rogers]

Halfacop,
See my previous post.

[gc70]

Other than planes, I don't know of a federal law prohibiting firearms nor have I been able to locate a Louisiana law banning firearms on "public transportation." Would you provide a citation on that?

All of the Interstate carriers; Greyhound, Amtrak, and the airlines all specifically ban it and have for a very long time.

Links to the Greyhound (http://www.greyhound.com/home/en/TicketsAndTravel/TravelingByBus.aspx) and Amtrak (http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Amtrak/am2Copy/Title_Image_Copy_Page&c=am2Copy&cid=1080080553878&ssid=147) policies prohibiting firearms; everyone seems well aware of the airline policies.

Link to the Louisiana concealed carry law (http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=97451), which states: "O. The provisions of Subsection N of this Section shall not limit the right of a property owner, lessee, or other lawful custodian to prohibit or restrict access of those persons possessing a concealed handgun pursuant to a permit issued under this Section." Which means Louisiana law allows airlines, or bus or train companies to restrict weapons.

Link to the Louisiana anti-confiscation law (http://www.legis.state.la.us/billdata/streamdocument.asp?did=399339), which states: "H.(1) Nothing in this Section shall authorize the seizure or confiscation of any firearm or ammunition from any individual who is lawfully carrying or possessing the firearm..." Since the transportation companies say no weapons, it is not "lawfully carrying."

[lookn4varmints]

Being prepared doesn't just mean having a stockpile of food and ammo . . . . it also means being able to DRIVE your family our of harms way or otherwise not depend on lowest bidder transport in emergency if possible. It also means secure, lo profile storage when away from home.

Yea, boy! If you're unable to purchase a car, at least have some emergency money saved for a respectable cab ride out of town or make pre-evacuation arrangements with someone who owns a vehicle. Before I stepped on one of those "disarmament buses," I'd be shoving a $100 bill in some cabby's face and telling him to take me as far north as a 100 bucks will take me.

It appears as though private or alternate transportation may contribute more to the safety of a NOLA resident than a firearm if the NOLA resident is going to lose that firearm trying to get out of town.

BTW, this story originated on CNN.......'nuff said!

[Treo]

When I first saw this thread I was ready to jump in the raaaage against the machine pool W/ both feet. But upon further reading I find that we have a bunch of people, who could have made a better decision' waiting till the day the storm makes landfall and expecting Choclate Ray to come to their rescue.
And then you have the same people apparently illegally carrying concealed weapons.

WHAT DID YOU THINK WAS GONNA HAPPEN WHEN THEY TRIED TO GET ON THOSE BUSSES?

How about practicing a little self suficiency? How about thinking 3 years ago maybe I need to get a job and a car so the next time this happens I can get the HELL OUT W/out using Choclate Ray's Ghetto Bus Lines?

How about thinking " Gee the house I live in was under water last time, maybe I should move to Arizona?"

[/EVIL WHITE REPUBLICAN RANT OFF]

[AntiqueCollector]

Across state lines? Interstate public transportation? That's the point here, interstate travel... again. This isn't about a bus ride across town.

I don't know of any interstate public carrier that allows firearms to be carried by passengers. If you know of one I'd love to see it.

I think it SHOULD be legal, but I don't know of any.

Are the buses in question in NOLA going across state lines or moving people to a different part of LA? That's seemingly the key here...there seems to be a lot of assumptions they are but are they for certain...

[akodo]

what about this angle?

If people were in general using the bus to get out on their own, bringing your weapon would not be allowed.

However, if the reason you are evacuating is due to 'government ordered evacuation' then can the government still be playing these rules of 'government bus...stay behind if you don't like our rules!'

To me, that is the crux of the problem. If the gov was just giving free rides, okay, you get to set terms like 'no weapons' but once it is a government mandated evac, then you don't really have the choice of saying 'no thanks'

[AirForceShooter]

So, let me get this straight.
I'm ordered to evacuate my city. I don't have a choice. I'm ordered to get on the bus. No choice here at all.
If I don't do either one I'll be arrested.
Now before I get on the bus, train, whatever I have to surrender my guns.
This isn't confiscation??
If I was driving my own car I wouldn't have to surrender my guns.
Once again the poor get screwed.
Are they giving them back after the hurricane? Are they issuing receipts?

They're stealing guns again.

AFS

[AntiqueCollector]

Links to the Greyhound and Amtrak policies prohibiting firearms; everyone seems well aware of the airline policies.

Link to the Louisiana concealed carry law, which states: "O. The provisions of Subsection N of this Section shall not limit the right of a property owner, lessee, or other lawful custodian to prohibit or restrict access of those persons possessing a concealed handgun pursuant to a permit issued under this Section." Which means Louisiana law allows airlines, or bus or train companies to restrict weapons.

Link to the Louisiana anti-confiscation law, which states: "H.(1) Nothing in this Section shall authorize the seizure or confiscation of any firearm or ammunition from any individual who is lawfully carrying or possessing the firearm..." Since the transportation companies say no weapons, it is not "lawfully carrying."


I'm not entirely certain but if the buses are city or state controlled during these evacuations it's not as simple as a private company saying no guns...

[TexasRifleman]

I'm ordered to evacuate my city. I don't have a choice. I'm ordered to get on the bus. No choice here at all.

Not true. Many people stayed behind, as always.

What the order says is that if you stay there will be no city services and if you are caught off of your own property after dark you will be arrested.

Might be a dumb choice but you do have a choice.

[AntiqueCollector]

The government can't actually force you to evacuate in situations like these I believe.

[Rokyudai]

I don't think staying during a mandatory evac directly results in a violation. My understanding (or lack), Nagin said, if you choose to stay, "you are on your own". Among the potential scenarios that are for sure to get you in trouble staying during a man. evac. , violating the dawn to dusk (?) curfew that they put in place or obviously if you chose to start looting.

[Zoogster]

Ordered to evacuate, and a dawn till dusk curfew in effect. You cannot legaly go outside even if things settle down during daylight hours.

Thier treatment of firearms is only part of the issue. An order that makes it a crime to be out during daylight would technicaly mean anyone out could be arrested and have any firearms confiscated on the spot.

Do they have the authority to even issue such an order and impose such curfews at will?

What the order says is that if you stay there will be no city services and if you are caught off of your own property after dark you will be arrested.
So a dawn till dusk curfew, and you say anyone caught off thier property after dark is also violating something?
So essentialy it would be illegal 24/7 to be out of your home, meaning any firearms at any time would be possessed while commiting a crime subjecting you to arrest, and hence they would be confiscated.

I don't know about the after dark part, but they did say a dawn till dusk curfew. If they can spin anyone out after dark as suspicious, or guilty of something too then it is essentialy not okay to ever be off your property.

[gripper]

These people really are a bunch of Stalinist pantloads;aren't they??...

[halfacop]

Halfacop,
See my previous post.

Right - I saw it and edited my post accordingly.....

The government can't actually force you to evacuate in situations like these I believe.


Right - but you will be required to obey curfew that is set. Violation of curfew could result in being arrested etc etc.....

Do they have the authority to even issue such an order and impose such curfews at will?


Ever heard of Martial Law?

"On 8/26/2005, in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, New Orleans was placed under martial law after widespread flooding rendered civil authority ineffective. The state of Louisiana does not have an actual legal construct called "martial law," but instead something quite like it: a state of public health emergency. The state of emergency allowed the governor can suspend laws, order evacuations, and limit the sales of items such as alcohol and firearms. The governor's order limited the state of emergency, to end on 9/25/2005, "unless terminated sooner."

[funfaler]

They deserve what they accept....in the case of liberal cities, what they DEMAND!

Hey, if you come to my house, you live by my rules. If you want to live by your rules, take care of yourself.

If you are "ordered" to leave, and you 'choose' to use government funded programs, you live by their rules.

Now, if we were living in a "Real Country" and "Real Americans" were involved, this would not be an issue. However, we have Socialists running the show in the big cities, at the request (DEMAND) of the Socialists that live there, let them reap the benefits of living in a Socialist environment.

Do you see the confiscations in New Iberia, where the hurricane has actually made land fall? Wonder why? If the people beg to be "ruled", someone will step up and "rule" them. Is it sad? Yep, can I do anything about it? Short of educating the "people of America" about that fact that they "get what they ask for"....Nope, can't help them.

"They" bring their gun confiscation to this neck of the woods....well, it will be a different new story all together.....and I suspect that is why you won't see it here ;)

[mljdeckard]

It is at the very least an illegal search. Even if the bus company has a POLICY against carrying weapons, this is a policy. Not state law. All persons who board those buses are not presumed to be committing a crime. All persons are required to evacuate the city. There is no alternative for most of them. They are therefore being force-funneled into box ca...I mean, busses, and searched illegally.

[AntiqueCollector]

Ever heard of Martial Law?

My state's constitution forbids it, yet cities have plans in place to implement it. There's no authority given to the feds to implement it in the federal Constitution. Know what I'll do if they attempt it wherever I live? Ignore it.

[TexasRifleman]

t is at the very least an illegal search. Even if the bus company has a POLICY against carrying weapons, this is a policy.

And again, stick with the facts.

Do you know that there were searches? How do you know that these people didn't simply volunteer the fact that they had firearms when asked?

Way too many assumptions being made but that's the only way to quickly get to the Nazi, JBT, etc stuff.

If you stick to the facts the story is pretty boring.

Over time the facts in this will come out completely. Maybe it was illegal, maybe not. But at this point, with 2 screen shots from CNN and nothing else, it's just a little bit difficult to come to a conclusion about what actually happened.

[yokel]

Even if the disarmament was technically 'legal' it would still constitute an unconscionable outrage.

I suspect that the any future evacuation order will be largely disregarded as the impecunious folks will choose to stay behind and face an uncertain fate, albeit armed to the teeth.

[csmkersh]

Quote:
Other than planes, I don't know of a federal law prohibiting firearms nor have I been able to locate a Louisiana law banning firearms on "public transportation."

All of the Interstate carriers; Greyhound, Amtrak, and the airlines all specifically ban it and have for a very long time.

Okay, but that's corporate policy, not federal law.... Planes are the only mode of transportation where there is a federal ban on carrying.

[JR47]

Now, it would appear from at least one post, that the buses were stopped just outside of their final destination, and the LOCAL police were confiscating/seizing weapons. It was said that they offered receipts to anyone who wanted them, and amazingly, many didn't. Why would that be? Perhaps because they weren't theirs, after all?

I do not believe that Louisiana has a Vermont style carry provision. You must have a Louisiana-issued CCW to have a firearm on your person. How many of these people, Black, White , Hispanic, or Asian, had such a permit? If they didn't, then they were in violation of the law.

FYI, the Georgia law that allows carry on mass-transit was passed this year, and has been in effect for less than six months. It's still being sorted out. It exists ONLY as far as transportation in Georgia is concerned, and the person must have a valid Georgia CCW. This same law also allows for carry into bars or restaurants that allow consumption of alcohol on-premises.

This has nothing to do with racism, or discrimination against the poor. Why should you allow felons to carry guns onto buses, trains, or planes? How many of these people had stolen guns? This is an evacuation, so it has certain time constraints imposed upon it. The hurricane won't wait for everyone to have their weapons checked for ownership, or for them to receive CCWs. Those traveling out-of-state would also need time to make themselves lrgal under the 1986 FOP provisions.

Now, where is there information available that proves Blackwater participated in gun confiscations in post-Katrina New Orleans?

Also, the LEOs from out-of-state were legally deputized by the New Orleans authorities. Like it or not, the legality of their office while in New Orleans is the stuff of tin-foiler's fantasies. It's not just the out-of-state Police, either. The EMTs and Paramedics from out-of-state also had to be granted authority to operate in Louisiana.

Face it, the media put a spin on the "confiscations" of weapons from stupid people, and our own tin-foilers have rounded out the mix. All we need are the Black Helicopters, and the reports of blue-hatted Chinese troops boarding transport ships, heading for the Gulf to finish the scenario. :what::scrutiny::banghead:

[Kentak]

If guns weren't allowed on a plane or bus before Gustav, why do you think it would be any different now?

This is not a house-to-house confiscation, so reel in the conspiracy theories.

K

[AntiqueCollector]

You must have a Louisiana-issued CCW to have a firearm on your person. How many of these people, Black, White , Hispanic, or Asian, had such a permit? If they didn't, then they were in violation of the law.

LA as far as I know is an open carry state.

[Kentak]

You are not physically forced to evacuate. You think cops are going to search hundreds of thousands of homes room to room? LOL

If you're going by govt transit, lock or hide your guns in a high spot or waterproof container secured to something solid. They'll be there when you get back.

K

[csmkersh]

AC, You are correct, it is an open carry state and recognizes numerous CHLs from other states as well has having it's own CHL licensing laws.

and NOPD did do a house to house search last time around, Ken. That's the reason for the new federal law banning seizure of firearms. Oh, and the NOPD operated in violation of the State's constitution then too.

[Greywolf2008]

I am in no way attempting to play devils advocate and this is the first I have heard about this (It is disgusting and I too thought that a law was passed to prevent this from happening again).

However, what is the background reasoning for the confiscation? Are they being taken from people who are entering Gov. shelters or are they being taken from people who are trying to leave the area / State on their own?

If they are taking them from people who are entering Gov. shelters, that may be the reason why they are able to get around it.

Grey Wolf Training Specialists, Inc.
525 Bridgeport Ave. Suite 200
Shelton, CT. 06484
203.567.4855

www.greywolftraining.net

[gc70]

Ordered to evacuate, and a dawn till dusk curfew in effect. You cannot legaly go outside even if things settle down during daylight hours.


So something on the internet sounds strange and must be immediately believed? Try this USAToday article (http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2008/08/new-orleans-to.html), which makes more sense and provides supporting details.

New Orleans to impose dusk-to-dawn curfew

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin says the city will impose a dusk-to-dawn curfew when the sun sets today at 6:23 p.m. local time.

[csmkersh]

The article also quotes Nagin as saying they aren't going to bother with a trial, it's straight to Angola and the general population. The law and the Constitution don't seem to mean anything to him.

[Treo]

Know what I'll do if they attempt it wherever I live? Ignore it.

Let me know how that works out for you when there's a Bradley sitting on your front lawn.

Get your GLOCK and show 'em who's boss

[gc70]

Okay, but that's corporate policy, not federal law.... Planes are the only mode of transportation where there is a federal ban on carrying.

Correct, but irrelevant. The transportation companies' property rights allow them to say no weapons on their planes/buses/trains and state law prohibits carrying weapons on property against the property owner's wishes.

[csmkersh]

Depends on the state and it depends on the property, gc. In Texas, CCW can't be banned on public transportation other than planes. State AG so stated back in 1996. Planes are the exception in Texas because of federal law.

[nolo_gatillo]

if u had ur Louisiana-issued CCW u still have to give up ur gun?

[TexasRifleman]

The article also quotes Nagin as saying they aren't going to bother with a trial, it's straight to Angola and the general population.
The law and the Constitution don't seem to mean anything to him.

And again.... Nooooo that's not what's happening. Though the guy is clearly a moron, there is more to it than that.

There's a written agreement between the City of New Orleans and the Angola State Pen to temporarily house those arrested during a curfew since the City Jail is closed because of potential flooding.

City of New Orleans jail prisoners are at Angola already because the jail is evacuated.

What he said was if you are arrested for looting you will go straight to Gen Pop at Angola, and that is in fact the case, until your arraignment and trial if any.

[csmkersh]

TR, you didn't contradict a thing I wrote.... You made a distinction without a difference. :banghead:


Still waiting for you to cite the law re:"public transportation."

[gc70]

if u had ur Louisiana-issued CCW u still have to give up ur gun?

Only if you wanted a ride on the nice government-provided buses and trains.

[csmkersh]

Quote:
if u had ur Louisiana-issued CCW u still have to give up ur gun?

Only if you wanted a ride on the nice government-provided buses and trains.

Why? No one has provided a cite to a law, state of federal, justifying the act.

[Treo]

I haven't found a single news story talking about gun confiscations but, I did find this article

blog.wired.com/defense/2008/08/officials-made.html

That says that Canadian and British forces may be used in clean up and relief efforts.
Foriegn troops on U.S. soil , double plus ungood

[Orange_Magnum]

To remove guns from the hands of lawabiding people in a situation of national catastrophy is unjustifyable. What is the purpose? "As you flee it is well known that people become inclined to stop by banks along the roads and rob them! When people flee in a hurry, they, at the same time, tend to take good time to engage in gang rape along the roads at gun point." If that was the case, shouldn't they be stopped by other Americans? This is another stupid face of the political will of today. The people who agree to evacuate on the order of their politicians are harassed, while the people who stay, maybe to loot, are not?! Why are politicians suddenly so stupid? Is it the Mao syndrome that is showing? One day they will have us all sacked, where they want us. ****-ing politicians...

[TexasRifleman]

In Texas, CCW can't be banned on public transportation other than planes. State AG so stated back in 1996.

You might want to re-check that one.

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opin/opinions.php?headingID=49

DM0364 and DM0363 address this as well as LO96-059.

The offense in 30.05 - Criminal Trespass - cannot be committed on a bus, they do clearly say that. However, 30.06 - Trespass by Holder of License to Carry - is not addressed in the opinion.

DM364 says, regarding CHLs :

This office cannot determine whether a rapid transit authority rule prohibiting handguns on public conveyance would be reasonably necessary and appropriate for the accomplishment of a legitimate object within the police power of the rapid transit authority......Any attempted exercise of the police power is always subject to review by the courts on the question of reasonableness.

Elsewhere in that same document the opinion states:

Therefore, the statute (46.02) does not affect the power, if any, of a rapid transit authority to prohibit the carrying of handguns on its vehicles.

Unless you know of a different opinion it seems to me to say that 30.06 is still a crime, but I'm no lawyer.

[TexasRifleman]

TR, you didn't contradict a thing I wrote.... You made a distinction without a difference.

Didn't need to contradict it, just put it all in contex. You clearly took what Nagin said out of context and ran with the whole "he's the devil and he ignores due process" thing which is untrue.

Nagin is a complete moron and I have no doubt he thinks he can do what he wants, but you can't accuse someone of ignoring due process just by what they say.

You made a distinction without a difference.

I dunno... maybe it's just me but I think there's a hell of a difference between being sent temporarily to a prison that's acting as a temporary jail and being sentenced to prison without a trial.....but that's just me I guess.

[duewest]

Man Im glad I dont live there. I feel bad for those people. That mayor is an idiot.

[Thernlund]

Deleted.


-T.

[gc70]

No one has provided a cite to a law, state of federal, justifying the act.

That is correct and nobody can provide a cite to a law that specifically spells out that firearms can't be carried on buses and trains in Louisiana. The Louisiana legislature apparently expects people to connect the dots about the meaning of existing laws.

Here are the dots (see post #96 (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=4872673&postcount=96) for cites):

Transportation companies exercise their property rights to prohibit weapons.
Louisiana law does not override the rights of property owners to prohibit weapons.
Louisiana CCW law specifically prohibits violating property owners' weapons prohibitions.

If transportation companies said no tennis shoes on buses or trains, it would be perfectly legal and people could choose to leave their tennis shoes behind or not take a ride.

[csmkersh]

TR, If I recall correctly, the AG's opinion was solely WRT 30.05, as you stated. As to why 30.06 wasn't mentioned, it didn't exist until 1997.

As to DM364, that dealt with parks and DM363 general property. Abbot said that buses weren't "premises." Because of the ambiguities of 30.05, the legislature came up with 30.06 covering CHL holders. They then modified 30.06 last year to remove a municipal agency's right to ban. First major agecy to pull their signs was our friends, DPS.

[txgho1911]

How many of those handguns where acquired from looting the gun shops post katrina?

[Don Gwinn]

OK, we're about done here. When there are some facts to be discussed, we'll try again. This is ridiculous.