AK - Lower High End


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cbrgator
September 1, 2008, 02:40 PM
What are some of the better AK's in the 4-500 hundred range. I don't want to go as cheap as a WASR and I don't want to convert a Saiga. So which are the best clones that are a step above WASR's but not quite the best of the best? Is my price range accurate for that level of quality?

I just got an AR a couple months ago but after that blatant threat at the DNC its time for a Kalashnikov too.

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Sylvan-Forge
September 1, 2008, 02:45 PM
I hear Lancaster Arms (http://www.lancasterarms.com/) are nice

.

jws527
September 1, 2008, 02:55 PM
Standard AKM pattern rifle:

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/store/storeguns/pagestoreguns.htm

AMD-65:

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/beta/storeproduct446.aspx

Or a preconverted Saiga for about $550:

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/beta/storeproduct433.aspx

cbrgator
September 1, 2008, 03:36 PM
Anybody familiar with the preconverted Saiga's from Atlantic?

camslam
September 1, 2008, 04:17 PM
Just bought a Lancaster AK from Atlantic Firearms a month ago. Great service from Atlantic, and the gun is even better.

Very well put together. Sweet shooter. Accurate as I can shoot. Cost was $600, but worth it. 500+ rounds through it with no even a single hiccup.

Love my purchase.

Roadwild17
September 1, 2008, 04:20 PM
Ive got a yugo m70. cost about 450 a year ago, really nice.

nalioth
September 1, 2008, 04:26 PM
Or a preconverted Saiga for about $550:

<link removed>
Anybody familiar with the preconverted Saiga's from Atlantic?

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=368293

A guy came onto the Saiga-12 forum a few weeks ago, after buying a preconverted Saiga.

His bullet guide had been GLUED in and had fallen out, jamming his gun.

IMHO, you can do a lot better converting your own Saiga, than paying good money for these corner-cutting slipshod jobs. . . .

cbrgator
September 1, 2008, 04:36 PM
Yes, that's why I was looking more into the clones and away from the Saiga's. I definitely want a full stock, not a folder, and I would prefer wood, but that's not a requirement. What is my best bet?

nalioth
September 1, 2008, 04:46 PM
Yes, that's why I was looking more into the clones and away from the Saiga's. $125, 45 minutes in your garage, and you'll have a converted Saiga. They are very easy to convert.

cbrgator
September 1, 2008, 05:12 PM
If after my research that is my best bet, I'll do it, but I'd rather not. Any suggestions that fall under my preferences?

nalioth
September 1, 2008, 05:18 PM
Any suggestions that fall under my preferences? All of the above are great, short of the preslipshod Saigas. . .

If you can eyeball a Bulgarian SSR-85 (take it down all the way and check for rust and other signs of crap) before you buy it, I imagine those'd be alright.

Personally, if you can get a WASR locally and make sure it's not canted up, it'd be your best option ( nothing wrong with them except their aesthetics ).

Z71
September 1, 2008, 05:28 PM
I'm personaly quite satisfied with my WASR-10. Had a few minor details to work out, such as a rear sight notch that was too skinny and off center, and wood that had zero finish.

A thin file and linseed oil made it as good as any other AK. Just as ugly for sure as an $800 AK!

aka108
September 1, 2008, 05:29 PM
Was going to suggest Vector but a check of their page indicates they have a long waiting list.

jws527
September 1, 2008, 06:14 PM
I'm still stuck between ordering a WASR and buying a Saiga and converting it. I'd like to make up my mind today and have the order out and ready to go sometime tomorrow. I'm really more concerned about quality and performance than aesthetics at this point. I'm certainly not expecting an AK pattern rifle to compete with my better bolt guns in the accuracy department, but I'd at least like something significantly more accurate and usable than my other blasting carbine (a minute-of-barn M44).

I thought I had pretty much decided to go with the Saiga until I found out that my roommate's electric drill was dead...

jws527
September 1, 2008, 06:16 PM
A guy came onto the Saiga-12 forum a few weeks ago, after buying a preconverted Saiga.

His bullet guide had been GLUED in and had fallen out, jamming his gun.

IMHO, you can do a lot better converting your own Saiga, than paying good money for these corner-cutting slipshod jobs. . . .I've heard this, too (and I made a comment to this effect in another thread). I'm pretty confident that somebody who takes care in their work can do better than somebody who does it assembly-line style (even if it's a first time DIY thing), considering that it doesn't appear to require a particularly high degree of skill.

Still, I figured I'd throw the option out there.

cbrgator
September 1, 2008, 06:18 PM
There's not a very high number of ak's around here so I was planning on buying online (so stripping one down is kinda impossible). So I'm looking for something new that I can be comfortable buying online.

kcshooter
September 1, 2008, 06:32 PM
I'd look for a yugo, they've had a great fit and finish the last couple years. I wouldn't be afraid of a wasr-10 either. Again, the last year or so of these has been much better than their reputation. I would not buy a pre-converted saiga and be sure you are mechanically agile enough to do the conversion yourself before stepping into this. (It isn't too tough but I know people that call electricians to change their lightbulbs...)

nalioth
September 1, 2008, 06:40 PM
So I'm looking for something new that I can be comfortable buying online. "New" doesn't mean much if it's newly put together from old parts by corner-cutting minimum wage earners. . .

Arsenal has even shipped some "new" lemons themselves. . .




You guys are missing out on one LARGE point: There is absolutely nothing wrong with a factory Saiga. Most folks convert them

a) because it's giving the finger to the revenuers

b) because they own other standard Kalashnikovs, and the factory Saiga just feels "wrong" to them...

45B@cav
September 1, 2008, 06:41 PM
Have you considered a parts kit? I had a Bulgarian 74 kit and I sent it to Elk Ridge formally Armory USA. They built it with one of thier receivers. The whole thing ran me less than 4 bills. I could have built it myself but I did not have the tools here. They do great work. My kit was a virgin kit.

cbrgator
September 1, 2008, 06:48 PM
I want a new new rifle. Not newly built with old parts. Is this difficult to get? How about the Yugo M72 from Classic Arms for 530? They appear to be totally new and within my price range.

nalioth
September 1, 2008, 07:12 PM
want a new new rifle. Not newly built with old parts. Is this difficult to get? How about the Yugo M72 from Classic Arms for 530? They appear to be totally new and within my price range. If you want an all new rifle, you don't have many choices.

Arsenal

Saiga

WASR

All others are built from cut up rifles of unknown provenance (no matter what they tell you).

Appearance? A bead blast and park and paint will cover up quite a bit. Paint is the shady used car salesman's best friend for a reason.

cbrgator
September 1, 2008, 07:24 PM
the yugo on classic arms reads "ALL OF THESE RIFLES ARE STILL SEALED IN THE FACTORY BOXES WITH THEIR ACCESSORIES." They are basically lying?

exar
September 1, 2008, 07:27 PM
Yugoslavian under folders are great for what you probably want. I didn't much care for my WASR (first AK, didn't want to go all out until I knew what I wanted). Sold the WASR and got a Yugo under folder and it was much more solid and accurate for about $500. Wish I hadn't sold it.:rolleyes: When I go to buy another AK, it will be another Yugo due to the price being dead on for the quality.

nalioth
September 1, 2008, 07:49 PM
the yugo on classic arms reads "ALL OF THESE RIFLES ARE STILL SEALED IN THE FACTORY BOXES WITH THEIR ACCESSORIES." They are basically lying? Those Yugo M-72s are made here in the USA out of cut up Yugoslavian RPKs, some US made parts (to include a receiver) and nicely refinished. The American company that builds these has pretty boxes for it's 'factory guns'.

Believe me, if it were an actual totally-made-in-Yugoslavia RPK, it would not be selling for that price.

cbrgator
September 1, 2008, 07:54 PM
Any idea of what kind of quality they are?

nalioth
September 1, 2008, 09:04 PM
Any idea of what kind of quality they are? If the quality of Century's Yugo M70 builds are any indication, the M72 should be a quality item.

Daryl Licht
September 1, 2008, 10:55 PM
Can one of the "better" AK's even be found in that price range? People are snatching up anything that resembles a Kalashnikov. That, along with the dwindling number of parts to build from have driven the prices upward.

I don't think that 4-500 is going to get anything BUT and WASR or a base Saiga and the conversion parts, unless you can find something in the used rack.

RP88
September 1, 2008, 11:30 PM
I'm happy with my pre-converted Saiga from AtlArms, but it took me some personal DIY work to make it that way. For the money, all you get is the convenience of doing less of the work instead of none of it; IMO not worth it. Kind of wish I did the conversion myself, but either way I have a great rifle. If you want it to work properly, then buy a drill and order a bullet guide, because you'll be at least fixing that problem. I also had to do some work on the trigger guard.

jon_in_wv
September 1, 2008, 11:35 PM
I posted a review on here about the converted Saiga AK47 I bought from Atlantic Arms. I am very happy with it. It shoots like a dream and with a bushnell red dot mounted it is much more accurate than I expected it to be. The conversion is done my Tennesee Gun Works and I think it looks very well done.

cbrgator
September 1, 2008, 11:59 PM
Can one of the "better" AK's even be found in that price range? People are snatching up anything that resembles a Kalashnikov. That, along with the dwindling number of parts to build from have driven the prices upward.

I don't think that 4-500 is going to get anything BUT and WASR or a base Saiga and the conversion parts, unless you can find something in the used rack.

Well its 530 for that M72 from Classic Arms.... I really don't want to do a conversion, I'm a student and don't really have time for that.

Frankl03
September 2, 2008, 12:19 AM
The M72 Should be a quality build but it has a long heavy barrel being a RPK clone. (It may feel front heavy) If you can find a Yugo M70A (full stock) or B folding stock they are very well built. I owned the full stock version built on the heavier DCI receiver and it was very solid and a great shooter. Also the M70 comes with a chrome, polished bolt carrier which is a nice touch.

J&G Sales has the M70B for $499.00

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/rifles/ak-47-and-rpk-rifles/p/yugoslavian-ak-47-rifle-m70ab2t-with-underfolder-stock-/cPath/209_214/products_id/1388

cbrgator
September 2, 2008, 01:17 AM
The M72 Should be a quality build but it has a long heavy barrel being a RPK clone. (It may feel front heavy) If you can find a Yugo M70A (full stock) or B folding stock they are very well built. I owned the full stock version built on the heavier DCI receiver and it was very solid and a great shooter. Also the M70 comes with a chrome, polished bolt carrier which is a nice touch.

J&G Sales has the M70B for $499.00

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info....oducts_id/1388

Well it's not a full stock but that looks like a pretty solid rifle at a pretty solid price.

Zedo
September 2, 2008, 01:40 AM
Get the Bulgarian receiver -- milled from steel billet rather than stamped sheet metal. But they're heavy.

cbrgator
September 3, 2008, 10:24 AM
What do ya think?

MIL-DOT
September 3, 2008, 11:01 AM
For the money, that's probably the best deal going. After I lucked into a set of used teak foregrips ( from a THR member) this went from my least favorite AK in my stable to probably my favorite. The same rifle is also at Centerfiresystems for the same price.

jws527
September 3, 2008, 12:26 PM
The thing that would concern me about the M72 and other RPK type clones is that while they probably make for a much better bench rifle than a standard AK, I can't imagine they'd be nearly as practical or fun to carry and shoot from a standing or otherwise unsupported position. Doesn't that sort of defeat the point of this type of rifle?

nalioth
September 3, 2008, 12:35 PM
The thing that would concern me about the M72 and other RPK type clones is that while they probably make for a much better bench rifle than a standard AK, I can't imagine they'd be nearly as practical or fun to carry and shoot from a standing or otherwise unsupported position The RPK type weapon was not meant for aimed fire, but rather 'walking' your rounds onto the target.

It's all about knowing the design and usage intentions.

jws527
September 3, 2008, 12:56 PM
Right - a light machine gun like the SAW. I know that, I'm just saying that sounds a lot more like something one would use against a compound raid by, errr...zombies...than something I'd realistically enjoy taking to the range or even out into the woods. Just my opinion, of course.

In any case, it's somewhat different from one most people would think of when they think "AK" in terms of use.

cbrgator
September 3, 2008, 01:11 PM
Well I already have an AR. My main motivation for the AK is because I still can. Why is the AK so uncomfortable to shoot?

nalioth
September 3, 2008, 01:48 PM
jws527, you get behind an RPK type sporter and it's gonna be the one of the most accurate "kalashnikov designs" you'll shoot.

They have thick, long barrels.

They all come with bipods, you know :)

BTW, some of the vendors are actually selling the AES-10B and M72 as "sniper rifles" :eek:

jws527
September 3, 2008, 03:20 PM
My main motivation for the AK is because I still can. Why is the AK so uncomfortable to shoot?Well, if you compare it to the AR:

-A pistol grip seemingly designed for child soldiers in Africa
-A buttstock that's at least an inch too short
-A narrow, short handguard
-A safety lever on the wrong side of the receiver which requires a full on hand motion to actuate
-A large, awkward bolt that's much more "interactive" to chamber than the simple bolt release switch on the AR
-Stout recoil
-Heavy

Many of these things are actually pretty easy to rectify. The grips and stock can be replaced with polymer equivalents which will reduce weight and fix some or the ergonomic problems, and the recoil can be mitigated with a pad, well designed stock, or a lighter caliber (e.g. 5.45). Not that I think that AK recoil is actually bad (I'm used to Mosins and Mausers), just more pronounced than an AR.

That said, I don't know if I'd call it "uncomfortable" - just awkward, and fun. :)

jws527
September 3, 2008, 03:21 PM
jws527, you get behind an RPK type sporter and it's gonna be the one of the most accurate "kalashnikov designs" you'll shoot.I think we're just miscommunicating. In terms of the things that can be objectively measured or defined, I don't disagree with you at all. :)

nalioth
September 3, 2008, 04:39 PM
-A pistol grip seemingly designed for child soldiers in Africa
-A buttstock that's at least an inch too short Not for squared stance shooting ( not bladed like we're trained / used to )
-A narrow, short handguard
-A safety lever on the wrong side of the receiver which requires a full on hand motion to actuate Which side is the "wrong" side?
-A large, awkward bolt that's much more "interactive" to chamber than the simple bolt release switch on the AR The "simple" bolt release is just another part that wears out (then you're back to 'A large awkward interactive bolt' or a jammed rifle)
-Stout recoil What AK are you shooting? A Mosin has stout recoil. Kalashnikovs have negligible recoil [you did say something about child soldiers, right])
-Heavy See above.


Not sure what Kalashnikovs you're using, but a lot of the "discomfort" is not knowing how they were designed be used and expecting them to work "the American way".

jws527
September 3, 2008, 05:23 PM
Not sure what Kalashnikovs you're using, but a lot of the "discomfort" is not knowing how they were designed be used and expecting them to work "the American way".
"Well, if you compare it to the AR:"
...
"Not that I think that AK recoil is actually bad (I'm used to Mosins and Mausers), just more pronounced than an AR."
...
"That said, I don't know if I'd call it "uncomfortable" - just awkward, and fun.

I was just answering his question. Vote with your dollars - I bought a Kalashnikov.

nalioth
September 3, 2008, 05:54 PM
Vote with your dollars - I bought a Kalashnikov.I do.

I own 0 ARs.

I'll get 'em in trade or 'fire sales', but they don't stay around long before I sell 'em off.

cbrgator
September 4, 2008, 12:02 AM
Is the underfolder stock more or less comfortable than a standard stock?

And whats the general consensus... Is this AK a go or no go?
http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/rifles/ak-47-and-rpk-rifles/p/yugoslavian-ak-47-rifle-m70ab2t-with-underfolder-stock-/cPath/209_214/products_id/1388

nalioth
September 4, 2008, 12:14 AM
Is the underfolder stock more or less comfortable than a standard stock? Asking subjective questions isn't very good for information gathering.

"Comfort" is way different from one person to the next. . .

That Century Yugo is just fine.

phoglund
September 4, 2008, 12:51 AM
I have a pre-converted Saiga from Atlantic Arms. I've not had any problems with it and think it's a good bit of kit. Primarily Russian made, well converted. I did some work on it after I bought it but not because there was anything wrong with it but just to customize it a bit. Blain is a good guy to work with and will answer any questions you have. Give him a call.

Atlantic Firearms
September 4, 2008, 06:52 AM
Guys the SAIGA units are great base AK rifles , you can choose to attempt the conversion yourself or buy a pre converted unit either way you will be pleased .

kcshooter
September 4, 2008, 12:26 PM
Is the underfolder stock more or less comfortable than a standard stockI find folders extremely uncomfortable to shoot, and there is almost no way to get a solid cheek weld. But that's just my opinion, others like them just fine.

jon_in_wv
September 4, 2008, 07:12 PM
I'll second the post by Atlantic Firearms. I have been very pleased with mine. I've fired about 250 rounds through mine with no other maintenance other than the initial cleaning. It is smooth, comfortable, reliable, and I'll take it over an AR15 any day as a survival rifle. I would prefer to swap out the strangely shaped grip for a more ergonomic one but other than that the Saiga AK from Atlantic Arms is much more comfortable and easy to shoot than I expected it to be.

Kman
September 4, 2008, 11:09 PM
You could try to buy a used Mak off Gunbroker, it should still be in that range, won't be a parts gun, it's a heavy duty piece that can be altered to fit your fancy.

Girodin
September 5, 2008, 01:33 AM
Guys the SAIGA units are great base AK rifles , you can choose to attempt the conversion yourself or buy a pre converted unit either way you will be pleased .


I like the implication that you might fail at your conversion. It is possible but HIGHLY HIGHLY unlikely. The only reason not to be able to do it is if you dont have the tools needed, which are pretty basic. A drill, screw driver, file, pliers will get it done.

I dare say it may take someone doing their first one more than 45 minutes but it is soemthing most people could do.

I wonder if the guy who had his bullet guide fall out was pleased?

You do the conversion yourself or get ripped off buying a shoddy pre fab either way you will probably be happy with your rifle.

jon_in_wv
September 5, 2008, 09:44 AM
That is assuming to buy a shoddy prefab. You are equally capable of doing a shoddy conversion yourself. I bought one that was previously converted and it is a great conversion. You just need to do your research and make sure you are buying quality. I paid about 580 bucks for mine and after I tallied the tools I would have to buy, parts, and the chance I would bugger it up myself and get NO warranty for my weapon I decided it was much better to buy one that was PROFESSIONALLY converted AND came with a 1 year warranty. If it was buggered I could have just sent it back.

cbrgator
September 5, 2008, 09:50 AM
What about the Bulgarian SSR-85 from AIM Surplus for 625?? Thoughts?

MIL-DOT
September 5, 2008, 10:17 AM
My thought is that it's $25 cheaper at Classicarms ! :D

cbrgator
September 5, 2008, 10:22 AM
Yea, I just saw that. Thoughts on the rifle though?

nalioth
September 5, 2008, 11:34 AM
Yea, I just saw that. Thoughts on the rifle though? Use the search, Luke.

Many comments on that rifle have come from many keyboards and I'm sure we're getting tired of repeating ourselves. . .

Girodin
September 5, 2008, 01:05 PM
That is assuming to buy a shoddy prefab.

We were talking about the ones sold buy Atlantic, classicarms, etc right? You were spot on about doing some research, and if you do you will find the reviews are not very positive for those rifles. The process used on many of them is shall we say unorthodox to be polite.

They use parts that are IMO inferior to what can be had for the same amount of money (and in reality even less money) doing it yourself.

As I stated if you dont have the tools, nor do you know anyone who will let you use them then it may not make sense to do it yourself. Also I could see the motivation to step up to a work of art like a tromix but the type of conversion being discussed is for most people not a buy IMO.

The Tick
September 5, 2008, 01:20 PM
I bought a Vector Arms AK-47 about a year ago now. I had one ordered from their factory but the waiting list was 6 months. I looked on gunbroker and found the exact one I was after, chrome lined and everything. Its was even cheaper than Vector was selling them at the time. I paid (after shipping / ffl fees) $550. Its a great rifle, very accurate for an AK.

jon_in_wv
September 5, 2008, 02:14 PM
Girodin I DID do a lot of research on my purchase, Particularly on the AK forums and they had a lot of good things to say about them. I wonder what parts exactly are you saying are inferior? Are the Russian parts inferior to Yugoslav or Romanian parts? Is it the US parts? Do you know where they get them from? Mine is put together very well, has a great trigger pull that is crisp with no trigger slap at all, and is very accurate for an AK. It has been reliable and the only unorthodox feature I can find on it is the welded bullet guide which works perfectly. It won't break or fall out either so I fail to see how it is inferior to a pinned or bolted in bullet guide.
I also did a lot of research on doing a conversion. If you don't buy "inferior" parts you are saving very little money by doing it yourself and you are voiding the warranty of your weapon. Mine has a 1 year warranty and Atlantic Arms, who has a very good rep on the AK boards, has been very helpful to me and I thought their customer service was great.
Their conversion for the Saigas are done by Tennessee Gun Works BTW. You can check their website or contact them to see what type of parts they use for the conversion.

Perhaps you can provide some links to the "not very positive reviews" for the rifle I bought. I didn't find them when I was researching it. In fact all I found was very positive reviews and after I posted my review several other guys bought the same rifle and contacted me to tell me they were very happy with theirs too. AA only sold about 50 of these before I bought mine so likely you are talking about a different rifle anyhow. They have sold conversions from several manufacturers. I don't think your going to find a lot of negative press about TG or Redstick, Lancaster, Vector, or the other manufacturers they are using.

nalioth
September 5, 2008, 02:52 PM
don't think your going to find a lot of negative press about TG or Redstick, Lancaster, Vector, or the other manufacturers they are using. There ya go, lumping top tier folks in with the corner-cutters.

Tennessee Guns are commodity folks. They're only intention is to fabricate X guns per day. They do not care about quality parts. They do not care about quality methods.

They are after the quickest, cheapest method that will just get the job done.

Is this savings passed on to the customer? If it were, you'd hear a lot less complaining about their methods.

frankd4
September 5, 2008, 03:35 PM
SAIGA I own two in .223 one in 7.62x39 and a 12ga converted all myself and have never had an issue with one of them, I am in the process of converting a SAIGA .308 best dam guns for the money. There is aomething to be said about doing your own conversion.

jon_in_wv
September 5, 2008, 04:02 PM
I was merely pointing out the weapons are not made by Atlantic Arms and that if your going to make statements about the quality of weapons they sell then you need to be more specific than a blanket statement. Do I need to explain it in simpler terms for you??

Thank God there is an ignore function on this forum.

cbrgator
September 5, 2008, 05:10 PM
Guys, guys chill out. No need to get huffy about the level of quality of a gun manufacturer. As the OP I was just looking for opinions of some the different AK's I have come across. No need to argue.

jon_in_wv
September 5, 2008, 06:53 PM
Agreed. I think there is a lot to be said for doing your own conversion but recently I bought a 1911 that a guy had "gunsmithed" and I can tell you that not all people's abilities are equal. The weapon was dangerous to handle and I ended up replacing 90% of the internal parts with new ones. I know many people do it successfully, but some don't. If your not well tooled and good with your hands I would spend the few extra bucks and buy one that is already converted or just go ahead and spend the extra bucks on a Lancaster or Vortec AK47. From what I've seen of a LOT of the Romanian AKs out there I would steer away form them. Polish and Hungarians seem very nice and you can find a deal on them if you look around.

Girodin
September 6, 2008, 03:42 AM
I wonder what parts exactly are you saying are inferior?

In my opinion the qualiy of certain parts used for the conversions by Tennessee Guns, the stock and pistol grip, is much lower than what one could buy spending the same amount of money on one they convert themselves. The above mentioned stock and pistol grip is the cheapest stuff they can get their hands on. Do you really not think that the grip in question is inferior to say an ergo grip or a grip from CAA for example? Is that even something that can be debated? The same can be said for the stock. The parts they use might work, but good enough to work does not equivicate to being as good as something else. Lots of people run them on thir aks and they work but why would you if you could get something better for the same price? If you could get a lexus for the price of a toyota why in the world would you buy the toyota?

Their version of bullet guide is IMO inferior to a dinzag bullet guide. At the very least it is not proven to have the same reliability and longevity of the dinzag. There may be a reason that none of the well renowned builders do it that way. Just something to think about.

Their conversion for the Saigas are done by Tennessee Gun Works BTW. You can check their website or contact them to see what type of parts they use for the conversion

I am aware of who does them and their reputation on the saiga forums. I could also just look at the pictures and see the grip and stock.

Mine is put together very well, has a great trigger pull that is crisp with no trigger slap at all, and is very accurate for an AK.

You would have to ruin the saiga in the conversion process to come out with anyting less than that. Those features are standard so to speak and in no way justify the added cost since you would have them on any home conversion that hadn't gone horribly unimagineably wrong.

the only unorthodox feature I can find on it is the welded bullet guide which works perfectly. It won't break or fall out either so I fail to see how it is inferior to a pinned or bolted in bullet guide.

That is the unorthodox method I was refering to and it has been discussed at length on this site before. I'm glad yours is working well. They must have gone away from that method for a reason though, because they dont use the weld anymore. They were the only ones to really ever do that. In fact on a recent thread Atlantic made a specific point of proudly announcing that the newer ones had real bullet guides. Although he never answered inquiries as to how they are attached (people wanted to know because there were reports of them falling out and appearing to be glued in).

also did a lot of research on doing a conversion. If you don't buy "inferior" parts you are saving very little money by doing it yourself

Ummm, you are either getting better parts that cost more money for a reason or you are saving a significant ammount of money. Either way doing it yourself is a better clearly a better deal.

you are voiding the warranty of your weapon.

That is a huge concern with something like an AK? I don't even know how many rounds have been through the barrel of my 7.62x39 and it has never had the slightest issue. never a FTF, FTE, or the like. A converted AK will suffer no reliabilty issue as a result of the conversion.

Thank God there is an ignore function on this forum.


LOL Nalioth just might be the most knowledgable member on this board when it comes to AKs. He is someone who really knows what he is talking about and continualy impresses me with his breadth of gun knowledge. Ignoring him would be a great way of cutting yourself off from a wealth of knowledge, but do as you like. I suppose sometimes the most important thing for people is hearing what they want not learning more.

If your not well tooled and good with your hands I would spend the few extra bucks and buy one that is already converted

Have you ever converted one? I have done a conversion before with nothing more than a drill, a screwdriver, an allen wrench, a pair of pliers and a file. Not what I would call being well tooled. It turned out great. Watch the video of the dude doing it on his kitchen table with the same tools. Search the saiga forums there are countless posters saying that they are not particularly mechanicaly inclined and expressing doubt over converting only to state how easy it was once they have done it.

Perhaps you can provide some links to the "not very positive reviews" for the rifle I bought.

Well to start there is the gentleman on this thread saying that he had to work on his to get it running and expressing regret at the purchase. There was the review on the saiga forums. You may want to visit those forums anyways there is a lot of info on the gun you own that might interest you. If you bough it when only fifty were sold how many reviews do you think were out there at that time?

I'm glad you are happy with your rifle. The fact is though that most people could have the equivelant for less money or even something better for less money.

You recomend the rifle. I think it is a total rip off. To each his own.

Girodin
September 7, 2008, 03:22 AM
One question for those with the Tennessee Guns conversions. Do they have the bolt hold open reinstalled? I cannot see it in any of their pictures and it takes some effort to get it back in so I am guessing that they dont. Can anyone confirm that?

jon_in_wv
September 9, 2008, 06:14 PM
I've checked both forums. The only negative posts about Atlantic Arms or the RAK Hi CAP are by YOU or Nalioth. EVERYTHING else is positive. The ONLY review of PERIOD of that model is from me. Your being totally dishonest. I don't know what your vendetta against Atlantic Arms is or what your interest is in the deal but it pretty transparent as far as I'm concerned.

The same weapon is also sold by AIM, Classic Arms and others. I even used them as keyword and the negative reviews you keep talking about are just not there. I'll put my weapon as is against any other AK. It is totally reliable and more accurate than and average AK. I didn't get ripped off in the least.

If your looking into Atlantic Arms do it YOURSELF and you'll find what I did. Don't listen to negative BS from people with an ulterior motive. You can also read my HONEST review on this forum and the Firing Line.

Girodin
September 9, 2008, 11:57 PM
. I don't know what your vendetta against Atlantic Arms is or what your interest is in the deal but it pretty transparent as far as I'm concerned.


Shouldn't you be able to know if it is so transparent? To adress your unfounded charge. I have no vendetta at all. I simply advice people away from wasting their money. If a car dealer was selling a civic for $40K I would advice others to skip that "deal", it is the same principle at work here. In fact I don't have the motive to defend my purchase.

The ONLY review of PERIOD of that model is from me.

Is there or is there not a poster on this thread reporting that he had to work on his rifle to get it running right?

The following was written about your specific rifle on the saiga forums by the will of red jacket who knows a thing or two about saigas:

"Don't know/care what Bubba's doing with his builds , not sure who did that thing pictured . Makes you feel bad for the customer though . The REAL Will"

Here is the link: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=26640&hl=atlantic

Read the other sentiments on that thread about the wisdom of your purchase.

Your being totally dishonest.

Yes Nolioth and I are both independently making up and perpetuating the myth that there was a review on the saiga boards, where the bullet guide fell out of one of these, as part of some consipircy against atlantic firearms. Diabolical isn't it? Also there is nothing positive about them on the saiga boars which is the fount of saiga info.

In fact if you wish to discuss honesty, you claim in your "definative" review that red stick converted your saiga which is completely untrue. As you can see in the link to the saiga boards Will was quick to distance himself from them. So much for your honest reviews and all the research you did in to these things.

I didn't get ripped off in the least.


I just finished a conversion (literally I test fired it today) with a much better grip (one that cost three times what that popsicle stick made for a child's hand on yours costs) and a real bullet guide, a bolt hold open (I will assume unless you say otherwise that I was correct and this was another corner cut) and it cost $500 total based on a starting price of $320 for the rifle. HMM you didn't get ripped off at all? You paid more and got less. I guess it depends on your definition of ripped off. For $580 I can have a better stock, grip, duracoat finish, mags, threaded muzzle etc and I can keep my bolt hold open. Again ripped off depends on your definition I suppose.


It is totally reliable and more accurate than and average AK.

out of curisosity how accurate is the average AK and how did you come to this determintation? What kind of groups does yours shoot? Can we see targets. Lets ignore that your claim involves every AK in the world. How many variants of AKs do you own that you can personaly talk about?

I actually tend to believe that saigas are amongst the more accurate aks particualrly 7.62x39 variants, but how do you substantiate that since you made a definative statement? Lets say its true though, it likely is. Such a fact speaks nothing to this covesrion being a good deal. You can say the same thing about an out of the box saiga. In short you are saying that they didn't ruin the factory product. That is good but hardly laudable.

I'll put my weapon as is against any other AK.

Just hope that they dont call the range cold and require your bolt to be held open since TF decided yours didn't need to retain that feature.;)

I'm happy you like your gun. If it works it works. (I am curious if the bulgarian waffle mag feeds as well as the master molders they gave you?) I'll just keep building better for less and suggest that others do the same. You do what ever floats your boat.

frankcostanza
September 10, 2008, 12:29 AM
Yugo M70 with the fixed stock, if you can find one. I bought one from ClassicArms awhile back, and I think he might still have an underfolder or two. I've heard good things about the underfolder - I just prefer a fixed stock on my AKs

Moose458
September 10, 2008, 10:13 AM
I have the Yugo M70AB2 underfolder (Century International Arms), and its one of my favorite AKs. I prefer the U/F stock to the solid stocked Yugo because I cant get my face low enough to use the sights on the wood stock. Also if you wrap the left side of the U/F with para cord, it makes it a lot more user friendly. These AKs are built like a tank, shoot nice, are very accurate, have low recoil, and are just plain fun. The CIA M70 Underfolders are a high quality build and I can recommend them with out hesitation. These are the ones you see a J&G and Centerfire and are will worth the $499:D

hessy
September 10, 2008, 11:56 PM
I also read some negative posts about SSR-85 (primarily from Nalioth), but my experience with this rifle has been very positive. I do not know how to factor in Tennessee Guns (do not know anything about them; they are current importers). SSr-85 is made by Arsenal (not Inc, but smallish company) in Bulgaria from new parts, double-hook trigger and 1.6mm receiver. Nalioth claims the parts are rejects, but I have no evidence of that. Nothing out of spec. I look forward to the rifle return with laminated furniture from Red Jacket. This is the SSR-85c I bought from Atlantic. Do a search on the THR.
BTW, a quote for the conversion of Saiga that I wanted from Lancaster was $535. The Saiga will cost me $365, so total we are talking $900 for the converted Saiga. Similarly configured Tromix conversion will cost you $1200, and you will have idiotic "Warning" sign on the receiver. I have the same configuration SSR-85c for less than that. And no, I do not mess with drilling of the gun receivers.

nalioth
September 11, 2008, 12:36 AM
I also read some negative posts about SSR-85 (primarily from Nalioth)

I am making it all up (http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38119)

The SSR-85 rifle is made of recycled rifles. You spin the wheel on what you'll get.

If the parts that went into yours originally came from a clerks rifle that never left the arms room, good on ya.

If the parts yours was built with was assigned to an infantryman, you may not be so lucky. . .

RP88
September 11, 2008, 01:03 PM
the TG conversions use good parts; the problem is that they weren't putting in all the parts in it i.e. the bullet guide. I had to get a bullet guide kit and do it myself, because mine didnt have one...

Technically and mechanically: a GREAT rifle after I fixed it up; shoots as good as the others, and better than most.

financially: could have saved about 80 bucks and put said money to better use for the rifle without having to feel like I got gipped.

Girodin
September 11, 2008, 04:46 PM
had to get a bullet guide kit and do it myself, because mine didnt have one...


I would posit the idea that if one can install a bullet guide they have all the mechanical abilty needed to do the entire conversion and will save a significant amount of money.

jon_in_wv
September 11, 2008, 06:16 PM
I think the bullet guide is the only real issue with the TG Saiga. I planned on installing one but I'm still waiting for a reason to. I've put 250 rounds through mine with only two failures of any kind. One was a Wolf round with a primer that was installed improperly. Nothing would have fired that round. The other was a failure to feed from a Metalform 40 round mag. The steel mags have been perfect. I think there is a lot to be said for buying the Yugo AKs but in my case I wanted a Russian to fit in with my other Russian rifles. A Saiga conversion is the only economical way to get into a Russian AK.

RP88
September 11, 2008, 11:09 PM
I would posit the idea that if one can install a bullet guide they have all the mechanical abilty needed to do the entire conversion and will save a significant amount of money.

I havent actually gotten around to installing it yet. :uhoh: It's still right in front of my keyboard, guide, drill, screw and wrench, and tap.

guess I should rephrase my last post: "I got a bullet guide kit so I CAN do it myself."

I've never drilled into steel, so this should be, um...fun. Guess I'll find out how good I am tomorrow after I get out of my class.

cbrgator
September 11, 2008, 11:56 PM
What are your guys' thoughts on this one??

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/rifles/ak-47-and-rpk-rifles/p/yugoslavian-rpk-rifle-m72-with-heavy-barrel-/cPath/209_214/products_id/1443

RP88
September 12, 2008, 12:01 AM
if it's anything like other Yugoslavian AK-ish variants and models, then it is worth every penny spent on it.

Girodin
September 12, 2008, 02:43 AM
Seriously, you shouldn't worry. You can do it. It really isn't hard. I wouldn't be supprised if working on the gun makes you like it a lot more too. After my first conversion I was fairly proud of myself and the rifle meant a lot more to me.

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