44 Mag Bullet Drop at 100 yards


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IrvJr
September 1, 2008, 04:23 PM
I'm not sure whether to put this in the handgun or long gun section, since I have a question about shooting a handgun cartridge from a long gun...

I have a Winchester 94 Carbine (16" barrel) in .44 mag. I normally shoot .44 special and the occasional 44 mag loads in this gun.

I recently zeroed my carbine at the 25 yard range. Both the .44 mag and the .44 special loads (factory loads, 240 gr bullets) hit at the same point of impact at 25 yards.

I haven't had a chance to shoot the gun at 100 yards yet, but I was wondering how much a standard factory .44 Mag load (240 gr, JHP) would drop at 50 and 100 yards if I zero the sights at 25 yards.

Can anyone tell me how much the bullet would drop at 50 and 100 yards?

Also, what about for a standard .44 special load (240gr, standard factory pressure). How much would a .44 special round drop at 50 and 100 yards if I zero it at 25?

Thanks in advance

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g.willikers
September 1, 2008, 05:16 PM
Without knowing the exact speed of the bullet, it's only possible to make an educated guess, using published charts.

The ones I have say that the 240 grain Special load is rated at approx. 950 ft / sec out of a rifle giving a drop of 1 - 1.5 inches at 50 yds and 6 - 7 inches at 100 yds.

The Magnum load is given at 1750 ft / sec, giving 1 inch drop at 50 yds and 3 inches at 100 yds.

Of course the easiest way is to shoot and measure.

Hope this helps some.

Ben Shepherd
September 1, 2008, 05:22 PM
Best bet for that carbine is a 75 yard zero. And I'd zero it with magnum loads, not special.

That will give you maximum point blank range when you just hold dead on. After all it's a carbine meant for short range use. It's not a 600 yard target rifle.

IrvJr
September 1, 2008, 07:19 PM
Thanks for the replies folks. I think I will zero my rifle at 50 yards, since our range only has target holders at 25, 50 and 100 yards.

Old Grump
September 3, 2008, 12:20 PM
I shoot my 7 1/2" barreled 44 mag super blackhawk at 100 yards regularly, for a 100 yard zero I just make sure I am grouping 2" above my point of aim at 50 yards using 240 grain SP. Since I deer hunt with it I like to keep in practice with that gun. If its below 30 degrees I estimate another 2" above point of aim at 100 yards and I am usually pretty close. With groups averaging 4 or 5 inches its hard to tell but its in the killing zone on a silhouette target.

win71
September 3, 2008, 12:38 PM
If its below 30 degrees I estimate another 2" above point of aim at 100 yards and I am usually pretty close.
This is something new for me. Could someone explain how that works ?

IrvJr
September 3, 2008, 12:55 PM
Win71 - I'm guessing that when it's that cold outside the air is more dense and maybe this has a more adverse effect on the bullets trajectory.

Thanks all for the replies.

win71
September 3, 2008, 01:35 PM
I understand that some but 2 inches at 30 degrees sounds like a bit much. If you carry it to around zero degrees I suppose a 4 inch drop could be expected. I've never seen that before

g.willikers
September 3, 2008, 03:53 PM
The extra drop in cold weather might be because of the effect of temperature on the powder combustion.
For example, folks who compete in games where there is a minimum power factor requirement to their ammo have to consider the temperature the day of the match. Otherwise their ammo velocity can be way off of expectations - lower in the cold and higher in the heat.

Ben Shepherd
September 3, 2008, 07:01 PM
I was remembering wrong, zero for 100 yards!!

Here's a little help out of hornadys manual.-

With a 240 grain XTP any powder they list will hit 1700 safely out of an 18 inch rifle barrel. A couple of powders they list run clear up to 1900. And they're a little conservative with thier data. So if I look at the ballistics tables here's what we have, assuming a muzzle velocity of 1700fps:

If I zero for 100 yards:

25 yards= .7" high
50 yards= 1.4" high
75 yards= 1.2" high
100 yards= 0.0"
150 yards= -5.9"

So if you're sighting in at a 50 yard range, set up an inch and a half high. Then, if you are good enough to hit a 6" pie plate consistantly at 150, anything inside that you own. And even out at 150 yards, with your velocity down to around 1270 you're still over 850 ft lbs. of energy.

You could even zero for 150 or 200, and still be within 9 1/2" (average big game vital zone is around 12") all the way out. And still over 700 ft. lbs.

However, unless you're going to scope it, I highly reccomend 150 yards as the longest shot you should take. Unless you're better than most, which most of us aren't.

REB
September 3, 2008, 07:19 PM
Try this calculator.
http://www.hornady.com/ballistics/ballistics_calculator.php

You can also use it to calculate how high to zero it at 50 yards for a 75 yard zero.

S&W 25-2
September 3, 2008, 09:21 PM
You're making this too hard. If you zero at 25 yards, you have to remember the bullet is still RISING at that distance that you're calling "zero". It will crest it's arc around 60 yards (where it'll be high compared to your point of aim), and start to work it's way back down, and probably be crossing "zero" AGAIN around 100. Really. Try it.

Old Grump
September 4, 2008, 12:54 PM
I don't know why I get more drop when its cold. I carry in an open holster so whatever the air temp is my ammo is and I am assuming the powder may react a little different. I doubt if air density has much affect on a 240 gr bullet at just 100 yards. At 50 yards I shoot at a 50' pistol target to determine my hold over of 2". At 100 yards I shoot at silhouettes and a 25 yard pistol target and I can keep the biggest majority of my shots with the 41 magnum and 44 magnum inside the 8 ring, as long as I keep all my shots within 120 yards I am good to go. I just know that works for me. I use iron sights and I expect my groups would be more consistent if I would use a scope but since most of my handgun hunting shots are under 75 yards I don't bother. My old eyes are tired but they aren't that tired.

JR1
September 4, 2008, 03:05 PM
Go to any of the three major ammo manufacturers sites and they all have ballistics charts for their ammo. I have found the federal and winchester ones to be very accurate in what they report. This should get you started...
http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/cfrdetail.aspx?symbol=X44MHSP2&cart=NDQgUmVtIE1hZ251bQ==

REB
September 4, 2008, 03:38 PM
You're making this too hard. If you zero at 25 yards, you have to remember the bullet is still RISING at that distance that you're calling "zero". It will crest it's arc around 60 yards (where it'll be high compared to your point of aim), and start to work it's way back down, and probably be crossing "zero" AGAIN around 100. Really. Try it.

It depends greatly on how far the sights are above the center line of the barrel. The above would be close to true if using a scope 2" above the barrel but with iron sights at 0.8" you would be around 5" low at 100 yards with a 25 yard zero.

IllHunter
September 4, 2008, 03:58 PM
I agree with the observations you report,
I shoot my 7 1/2" barreled 44 mag super blackhawk at 100 yards regularly, for a 100 yard zero I just make sure I am grouping 2" above my point of aim at 50 yards using 240 grain SP. Since I deer hunt with it I like to keep in practice with that gun. If its below 30 degrees I estimate another 2" above point of aim at 100 yards and I am usually pretty close. With groups averaging 4 or 5 inches its hard to tell but its in the killing zone on a silhouette target.
My 9" Scoped Super Blackhawk also shoots high when it's below freezing. It took me two deer seasons to figure that out when I shifted to handgun hunting. Close in shots <100yds, were no problem, neither were warmer weather shots at +-100. I think it may be a factor of the temperature of the gun, bullet and propellant. It's very hard to determine as I have one gun and after the first shot, it's warmer and shoots differently. I had mentally marked the turning temperature as "freezing" ie:32F but I won't quibble. Is any one aware of test results regarding this phenom.?

Owen Sparks
September 4, 2008, 05:52 PM
I like magnum pistol calibers in carbine length barrels. The gain in velocity of around 400 fps puts the
.44 in another category of power when compared to a pistol. I prefer to sight mine in close and through a little practice, learn how much to hold over at 100 yards. The rational is that in an up close snap shot you will not have time to make the mental calculations and adjust your aim but at 100 yards you probably will. Part of the fun of working with big, heavy slow bullets is learning how to lob them in at 100 or even 150 yards. If you have access to a steel target of some kind it will give you instant feedback. There is the initial report of the rifle, a long pregnant pause and then the satisfying CLANG as the steel topples. Thats my kind of fun.

Old Grump
September 5, 2008, 02:00 PM
On a similar note I noticed I have to reduce my black powder load from 110 gr to 90 gr in my 50 cal. to maintain a zero when the temp gets down to zero F. The funny period seems to be between 30 and '0' degree's. This is exactly when I deer hunt.

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