A Heinlein quote


PDA






Oleg Volk
September 2, 2008, 11:36 PM
http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/25425-2/one4928.jpg

I didn't have a ray gun on hand...

If you enjoyed reading about "A Heinlein quote" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
hso
September 2, 2008, 11:41 PM
I like it.

ArcherandShooter
September 2, 2008, 11:45 PM
Oleg,

You don't need a ray gun. One of my favorite scenes in the book is where the hero (?) gets into a duel and uses an old-fashioned projectile weapon instead of the laser, being much faster to get weapon on target and surprising the life out of his opponent.

ColinthePilot
September 2, 2008, 11:55 PM
Oh no! is she shooting a pistol gripped weapon from the hip?!?!?!

Just kidding. I like it Oleg. Keep it coming!

B yond
September 3, 2008, 12:01 AM
Little too much white, IMHO. Nice quote though.

230RN
September 3, 2008, 12:08 AM
That's one of my favorite incidents in the book, too. It wasn't really a duel, but they were going to see who could shoot a vase or something, first, IIRC.

His "opponent" was so surprised by the BOOM of the .45 and the vase shattering that he didn't even shoot with the energy weapon.

Oddly, I was going through some of my image files the other day and I found this one I peeled off the net a while ago. It shows Robert A. Heinlein, L. Sprague DeCamp, and Isaac Asimov. The "Big Three," like nitric, hydrochloric, and sulphuric acids. :D

Time might have been the early forties, since DeCamp is in uniform. I think.

Just posting it for the heck of it and your enjoyment. I have no idea who owns the copyright, if any, on the pic.

Duke Junior
September 3, 2008, 12:16 AM
Very cool.Right out of the late 40's or early '50's.
Is that a S&W Model 10?
Whatever,I like it.Give us more from the Raymond Chandler(Phillip Marlowe) era.

ArfinGreebly
September 3, 2008, 01:28 AM
Gotta love Heinlein's view of women and self defense.

plinky
September 3, 2008, 07:43 AM
Nicely done. Men and women both fall victim to the mentality of children of the state. That's a life without dignity and a society that won't work.

vis--vis
September 3, 2008, 07:48 AM
Normally I am not a huge fan of the posters, but I really like this one! Good job

mbt2001
September 3, 2008, 08:05 AM
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them."

http://www.glendonswarthout.com/films/shootist_wayne.jpg

Prof. A. Wickwire
September 3, 2008, 08:25 AM
Oleg,

Actually, in the spirit of the book, she should have a 1911.

After all, that's what Hamilton Felix carried.

As usual, nice work.

Sincerely,

Prof. A. Wickwire

RoadkingLarry
September 3, 2008, 09:28 AM
Here's your ray gun
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/FLHRI-OK/buckrogers.jpg

GEM
September 3, 2008, 10:44 AM
Oh, to quibble - will folks who didn't read the books get the part about immunity which was a part of that society?

I might cut that. BTW, that society wasn't really a pleasant one despite the guns.

db_tanker
September 3, 2008, 11:26 AM
There isn't many authors out there that can propose ideas give life to characters like RAH.

He was one of the three giants. Heinlein, Asimov and Clark. Heinlein and Asimov traded off first place IMO. :)


And as for Oleg's work...his usual great stuff. :)

Creature
September 3, 2008, 11:29 AM
I didn't have a ray gun on hand...

You should have waited until you had one handy. The impact would have been far better.

bigfatdave
September 3, 2008, 11:36 AM
I like it, but a bit much white.
Just adding a visible holster would help to define the subject ... with the white shirt & background, you get a cool but distracting "floating head & arm" effect.

There are a LOT of RAH quotes regarding the right to defense ... how did you pick just one?

Phil DeGraves
September 3, 2008, 11:47 AM
That looks like a long action Model 1917, S&W. If it is, then at least it's a .45...

tigre
September 3, 2008, 12:38 PM
will folks who didn't read the books get the part about immunity which was a part of that society?

I don't get it because I haven't read any Heinlein (I keep thinking I should), but it still makes sense. Women are often viewed in sort of the same category as children, people who are natural victims and not held fully responsible for their actions. In that sense waiving immunity makes me think of taking responsibility for your own safety and well-being instead of relying on other people to protect you, as children do.

jrfoxx
September 3, 2008, 12:52 PM
I didn't have a ray gun on hand...

Try a Broomhandle Mauser with a big flash hider. It worked well for George Lucas in the 70's in some obsure movie about a war in the stars or something like that....

:D

GEM
September 3, 2008, 12:54 PM
IIRC, women in this society were exempt from the dueling/challenging interactions that men were expected to engage in. It made them second class citizens in what we now call benevolent sexism. Men could opt out to by wearing a brassard which meant you couldn't challenge but you were a wimp and could be shoved out of line, etc.

Felix (the hero) hooked up with a women who decided to go armed and wasn't looked on all that well. The society was also a touch of a genetically based classist society. Unpleasant place.

That's why this direct reference to the book is a little off to me.

Heinlein played with ideas and not all of time were so great. His last books were paens to incest.

Rugerlvr
September 3, 2008, 01:02 PM
He was one of the three giants. Heinlein, Asimov and Clark.

Not to go too far offtopic but I would add a fourth. Frank Herbert. ;)

3fgburner
September 3, 2008, 01:18 PM
That's one of my favorite incidents in the book, too. It wasn't really a duel, but they were going to see who could shoot a vase or something, first, IIRC.

His "opponent" was so surprised by the BOOM of the .45 and the vase shattering that he didn't even shoot with the energy weapon.

That scene was at the beginning of the book. Felix is in his friend's office, and showing of his new piece. The target's a paperweight, parked on a table next to a wall with a bunch of burn-marks from earlier target practice.

There IS a duel, later in the book when Felix and Phyllis are out to dinner. Felix inadvertently drops something on a table below the balcony he's on. He avoids a duel with the guy at the lower table, by apologizing, then gets called a weenie by someone else for doing so.

Guy at lower table looks up, and says,

"Your privilege, I believe."

He sits down, and Felix shoots the rude boy. Bags him in the shoulder, IIRC.

Nolo
September 3, 2008, 01:35 PM
I.
LOVE.
HEINLEIN.
Good work, Oleg, I even like the wash-out.
It's amazing how hard it is to get some women to believe in their own right to self-defense. I mean, they believe in having all of this power as a woman, most of which I believe with, but then they either get all cutesy and innocent when it comes to actually being physically powerful (as if innocence alone will shield them) or they believe that "they can handle it" without firearms.
I have met very few women who could actually handle it without firearms...
In fact, I've met very few men who could handle it without firearms.
But some do come around...
:D
Good job.

Phil Lee
September 3, 2008, 01:46 PM
Looks like Heinlein is in uniform. Take a look at:
http://jpetrie.myweb.uga.edu/heinlein3%20251x373.jpg and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Heinlein

telkontar
September 3, 2008, 02:32 PM
Upon the 3rd look, I like the white-on-white washout. It focuses on the essentials -- the person (represented by the head & intellect) and the gun (which protects the person).
I would delete the words "waive immunity." "So I claim my right ..." does not rely on the context of the book.

tigre
September 3, 2008, 03:16 PM
IIRC, women in this society were exempt from the dueling/challenging interactions that men were expected to engage in. It made them second class citizens in what we now call benevolent sexism. Men could opt out to by wearing a brassard which meant you couldn't challenge but you were a wimp and could be shoved out of line, etc.

Felix (the hero) hooked up with a women who decided to go armed and wasn't looked on all that well. The society was also a touch of a genetically based classist society. Unpleasant place.
That still sounds pretty close to reality to me. Men who aren't willing or able to defend themselves are usually derided by being compared to women, who are simply assumed to be unwilling or unable to defend themselves. And when women do take steps to defend themselves they can be looked on as less feminine, which rankles certain people who don't take kindly to uppity women. I actually like the immunity line, even without the specific context. It makes perfect sense to me.

Noxx
September 3, 2008, 03:36 PM
Love me some heinlein, my favorite quote being about the meek inheriting the earth....

Anyway. Permission to hotlink that image Oleg?

Catherine
September 3, 2008, 03:46 PM
I like it and it might hit a 'target area'. There are women out there who are 'ladies and shooters'. Many of them have been active in the RKBA issue, self defense practice and with target shooting. Some are great hunters too. (Think of women from Revolution days to the migration of the 'wild west'! Great women who happen to be shooters in the military too!) Most of these women don't make it in the 'propaganda controlled mass media' because the ANTI GUN AGENDA wants to portray women as weak, too emotional, 'dumb-down' Million Mom Marcher types, soccer moms-no offense, total pacifists which they are not, militant/bra burning whiners in some political affiliations, etc. I don't like to hear the 'whoa is me/pity party' type of woman or man either!

I love this quote below and have for many, many years.

"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
Robert A. Heinlein

I like the JOHN WAYNE quote from that one movie, "The Shootist", that another poster put up here. Thank you!

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them."

http://www.jwayne.com/movie_quotes.shtml

I had a conversation with a woman on Saturday, over the telephone, who basically told me that she just did not 'think' that she could defend herself or shoot someone to stop a crime. This woman has said this to me before, I have known her for many years, same old - same old. After so many years from this so called 'conservative' (Ha ha!) - RINO is more like it - she brought up guns and the election as she has before for 30 plus years. I said, "That is your choice, your decision to stop a criminal and/or to DIE or be hurt. Whatever trips your trigger!" I did not give a speech. Been there - done that. Converted some females and lost some. Men can be just as ignorant or 'ROLL OVER and PLAY DEAD' types too! No offense.

I have met some people who don't think that you can be gentle, loving, smart, use common sense just because you have the AUDACITY to have more Testicular Fortitude than them in wanting to own, shoot or defend yourself with a gun! Really! You can be many things in your life but you sure don't have to be a VICTIM or PLAY A VICTIM. You know the ones who PLAY a victim are usually the ones who play 'all of the other cards' in political issues from A to Z! Race, sex, age, class warfare, etc. You have them in ALL political parties too. Uh huh... sad, eh? UGH!

Social Engineering in the public fool system, in universities, in Congress, in the White House, in the police departments, in TSA, in Homeland INsecurity, in advertisements, in movies, on the radio from the R and the L sides, in literature, in newspapers, on the idiot box=television, in newly passed laws, rules, regulations, from gun organizations in compromising with Congress-no offense, ALL in the name of 'SECURITY', etc. has been the downfall and will continue to be the downfall of Amerika, errr, America as WE KNOW IT or knew it!

I like the poster. Oleg, I would love to see you use some JOHN WAYNE or those TYPES of quotes too. Thank you.

GUN control = control.

Sincerely,

Catherine - Armed and Female
Montana Territory

3KillerBs
September 3, 2008, 09:13 PM
Excellent!

I love the way the model looks perfectly feminine but, because of the plain white shirt and lack of visible make-up, she shows visually that she's not using the usual tools of women who want to manipulate men.

I can't find it on the internet but in many Christian homes there is a plaque, poster, etc. with a short meditation about Eve being made not from Adam's head to rule over him, not from his feet to be ruled by him, but from his rib to stand beside him. The woman in this image looks fit for that role.

fireflyfather
September 4, 2008, 02:43 AM
Man in uniform is DeCamp. Asimov on the right. Heinlein on the left. Heinlein was a civilian when he worked in the lab for the gov during the war. That pic is mid-late forties if memory serves.

ReadyontheRight
September 4, 2008, 03:32 AM
Perfect and beautifully composed Oleg. This one is right up there as one of my favorites.

I am, of course, now looking for a Heinlein series. And please keep using "real" weapons.:)

Travis McGee
September 4, 2008, 03:07 PM
Believe it or not, my wife is related to Heinlein. He was her "grand uncle." My mother in law was born a Heinlein.

Halo
September 4, 2008, 03:37 PM
As an aside, which Heinlein novel would you all suggest as a first read? I am never without a book to read, and since I just finished Das Boot I'm looking for a new one.

GEM
September 4, 2008, 03:54 PM
Starship Troopers and Stranger in a Strange Land are his most well known and thought provoking works.

The early Lazarus Long books like Methusaleh's Children are good.

Beyond this Horizon - the source of the quote is good.

His later books get really strange.

GLOCK19XDSC
September 4, 2008, 04:20 PM
"The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" or "Starship Troopers" would both be outstanding novels to introduce yourself to Heinlein. "The Past Through Tomorrow" is a collection of works that I also recommend, but I think it's out of print at the moment. "Glory Road" is also a fine read. "Sixth Column," "The Puppet Masters," maybe one of the juveniles like "Space Cadet," "Citizen of the Galaxy," "Red Planet," or "Podkayne of Mars."

Some of what he wrote in "Time Enough for Love" could be considered way over the top, but it was a good read nevertheless.

It is true that some of his later books were kind of strange, but "Friday" was one of those later books and is quite good, although many people would find some parts disturbing.

Richbaker
September 5, 2008, 02:05 AM
http://templetongate.tripod.com/rahchart.htm

This chart is the "Timeline" for most of RAHs stories....it's easiest to go thru them in order, they make more sense that way. "The Past Through Tomorrow" is an anthology of his short stories and is a good start.

There 2 recent releases, one is his 1st, never published before, novel and the other is "collaboration", done by Spider Robinson, based on notes recently found by Heinleins estate. Both are good, Spider did an EXCELLENT job...

Byron Quick
September 5, 2008, 02:36 AM
Not to go too far offtopic but I would add a fourth. Frank Herbert

The quality of Herbert's work is definitely up to the other three. Unfortunately, the quantity is not. I think Herbert got started late.

GEM
September 5, 2008, 11:08 AM
Kind of interesting that a major point of the Heinlein future was a rebellion against religious fanatic takeover of the USA. Oops.

And can we all have booster guns?

I will pass on cloning myself into twin teenage girls and then sleeping with them.

The early stuff was great.

stampsm
September 5, 2008, 06:54 PM
see what you made me do. i was up till 4am reading that book. :uhoh:

Jim Watson
September 5, 2008, 07:06 PM
"An armed society is a polite society." Is cited by many gun owners who have not read the book and do not understand the society of the millieu.
I think this is a better one from the same book and more relevant to our times:
"The police of a state should never be stronger or better armed than the citizenry. An armed citizenry, willing to fight, is the foundation of civil freedom."

Trivia: The chart of the Future History stories was not drawn by Heinlein, it was submitted to Astounding by a fan who saw how things dovetailed. It was published there by John W. Campbell, who was a pretty mean writer himself before he turned to editing where he could influence dozens of writers not just himself. Heinlein liked it and used it thereafter.

scrat
September 5, 2008, 07:22 PM
Sorry guys i dont think i like this thread. Every time i see the topic. It kinda makes me thirsty to grab a beer

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q77/scratm3/drinksofchoice.jpg

erictank
September 6, 2008, 10:28 AM
"The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" or "Starship Troopers" would both be outstanding novels to introduce yourself to Heinlein. "The Past Through Tomorrow" is a collection of works that I also recommend, but I think it's out of print at the moment. "Glory Road" is also a fine read. "Sixth Column," "The Puppet Masters," maybe one of the juveniles like "Space Cadet," "Citizen of the Galaxy," "Red Planet," or "Podkayne of Mars."

All good choices, IMO. My favorites - 'The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress' for adult (followed VERRRRRY closely by 'The Puppet Masters'), and you didn't mention my favorite juvenile Heinlein, 'Tunnel In The Sky'. 'Friday' was good, too, despite being among his "later" works. He got rather more explicit in those, which I don't object to per se but it really didn't seem to ad anything of real value to the stories either.

He did a non-fiction/editorial-type book back in the day, titled something like 'Take Back Your Government'. EDIT: looked it up, and that's EXACTLY what it was titled. Written in 1946, and not published until 1992, 4 years after his death, by Baen books (purveyors of fine sci-fi/mil-sci-fi in dead-tree and electronic-book formats - and the first hit's free, from their online Free Library! Yes, I'm trying to drum up business for them, and no, I don't work for them in any way - I just like almost everything I've read under their label). Sadly, it's not published anymore - I kind of half-heartedly look for a used copy every once in a while, but have had no luck thus far.

Guess I should try and keep my reply on topic, shouldn't I? The poster is nice - the white-on-white effect was a little distracting at first, but the more I think about it, the more I think I like it. It throws more focus on the woman's face and the weapon in her hand.

stampsm
September 6, 2008, 11:05 AM
"tunnel in the sky" was a very good book and made me think alot when i was younger. most people on this board would probably appreciate it.

fireflyfather
September 6, 2008, 01:43 PM
Actually, Sixth Column isn't a good place to start with Heinlein. It's not representative of his typical work. That book was written from a set of Joseph Campbell's notes. Heinlein re-worked the plot and cut out a lot of the racist overtones, but some of it couldn't be scrapped without killing the plot. It's sort of what like Spider Robinson did with Variable Star.

As for the Oleg's poster, I think it actually does stay true to the book. Somewhere I have one with the original cover art, which has pictures of laser pistols that have the same overall lines as a revolver, if memory serves.

And yes, the female character in the novel did carry a laser weapon, not a slug thrower.

RocketMan
September 6, 2008, 08:57 PM
Heinlein was Navy, graduated from the USNA in 1929. In the Navy until 1934 when he was discharged for pulmonary TB.
While that is a Navy uniform on the individual in the middle, is it Heinlein? It is the right rank, Lieutenant, at the time of his discharge.

Added later: Probably not him in the middle. Wiki shows the same picture dated 1944. By that time Heinlein had been out of the Navy for about ten years.

ctdonath
September 6, 2008, 10:00 PM
Another must-have quote:All societies are based on rules to protect pregnant women and young children. All else is surplusage, excrescence, adornment, luxury, or folly, which can — and must — be dumped in emergency to preserve this prime function. As racial survival is the only universal morality, no other basic is possible. Attempts to formulate a "perfect society" on any foundation other than "Women and children first!" is not only witless, it is automatically genocidal. Nevertheless, starry-eyed idealists (all of them male) have tried endlessly — and no doubt will keep on trying.
- RAH

akodo
September 7, 2008, 01:53 AM
Gotta love Heinlein's view of women and self defense

Heinlein seemed to think women were only capable of handling 22 magnum rifles....in possible bear country

fireflyfather
September 7, 2008, 02:06 AM
Heinlein seemed to think women were only capable of handling 22 magnum rifles....in possible bear country

Um, one of his female characters knew her way around a shotgun and (arguably) a 30-06. Deety Carter.

If you really believe what you just said, you either haven't adequately read through the Heinlein canon, or you ignored what you read. Female SOLDIERS (in several novels), shotgunning females (one of them described as TINY!), and many other examples would prove you wrong. SOME of his female characters, yes, but if you write enough and have varied enough characters, some are going to fit stereotypes.

Heinlein was Navy, graduated from the USNA in 1929. In the Navy until 1934 when he was discharged for pulmonary TB.
While that is a Navy uniform on the individual in the middle, is it Heinlein? It is the right rank, Lieutenant, at the time of his discharge.

Added later: Probably not him in the middle. Wiki shows the same picture dated 1944. By that time Heinlein had been out of the Navy for about ten years.

As I said earlier: Man in uniform is L. Sprague DeCamp. Asimov on the right. Heinlein on the left (from cameraman's point of view). Heinlein was NOT in uniform during WWII. He had a medical discharge for TB, and was never allowed back into uniform. He tried to rejoin for that war, but was denied. He spent the war working in a laboratory as a civilian, just like Asimov. That pic was from either the very end of, or just after the end of WWII. I don't want to dig through my garage (books are all boxed up due to a recent move), but somewhere in my books and/or files I have a citation for that pic. Heinlein is on the left. For sure.

jpsimms
September 7, 2008, 12:24 PM
Heinlein is my favorite author, and I have read a LOT of his book, never found a bad one, but as was said before some of the later works got wierd. They have all been entertaining and thought provoking.
Some of the stranger ones I have enjoyed are Friday, The Unpleasant Proffession of Jonathan Hoag, All of the Lazarus long books/ The Cat Who Walks Through Walls, Job: A Comedy Of Justice, just to name a few.
I always liked his view of women, liberty and self defence.

Oleg, I like the poster, but I do agree there may be to much white.

Good topic guys.

If you enjoyed reading about "A Heinlein quote" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!