Are Gun Forums becoming P.C...


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gizamo
September 4, 2008, 12:01 AM
I am seeing a huge drift towards gun forums becoming politically correct.
I do not understand it, but somehow know what is at stake...discussions that of importance to many members are being banned...

So do you think that:

1. Yes the forums have changed over the years and are becoming more mainstream P.C.

2. I see changes that reflect our current times, but not a big change

3. I see no change, whatsoever....

Giz

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Sean Dempsey
September 4, 2008, 12:02 AM
I don't know what you're referring to. They seem the same to me.

Dgreno
September 4, 2008, 12:06 AM
If anything, I have seen MANY more women on the gunboards that I frequent. Look around at some of the peoples profiles on here and you will notice that there are quite a few women on here.

GhostlyKarliion
September 4, 2008, 12:10 AM
This one seems to confuse me as well, could you give an example to what you mean by "P.C"?

brigadier
September 4, 2008, 12:20 AM
I think moderators are highly prone to overstepping their bounds. Sometimes it's a power trip, sometimes it's because they don't have it in them to keep personal views and feelings out of their way of running things but most often, I think it's because people tend to be a little unstable in judgment and basically, are imperfect.
I use to be a mod at a different forum, and know the world. I personally (other then not being able to watch the forum all day) was a model moderator who was fair and consistent by nature (I also avoided the position for nearly a decade) but noted that it's a rather scarce talent that requires someone who thinks and operates separate from the community and can separate personal feelings from his responsibility as moderator.
5 years ago, even gun forums were a different world. Allot of fighting and hatred was going on. Since then, many forums outlawed certain topics all together, namely politics and religion. My experience has been that this rule is best enforced only when it needs to be. The forums who did it this way have made out well, while the strict practitioners have run in to problems, though admittedly less then the problems they prevented. Unfortunately, especially among those who tend to end up moderators, the kind of judgment necessary to delicately handle these issues is not much of a talent and can be more damaging by trying to play fair, so they just resort to playing strict with only obvious exceptions.
It's like any human dealings. It's never perfect.
I hope I am right and never have to eat my words, but I myself think the moderators are for the most part, doing their best, and I am saying this just after facing a moderator decision here on THR that I strongly disagree with, but never challenged as I believe it was nothing more then an occasional mistake by an imperfect person and certainly never took personally.
Think of it like the job an umpire has in making the calls. Once you realize and accept that mods have a tough job of keeping the peace and are imperfect, you will find decisions you disagree with much less offensive.

bogie
September 4, 2008, 01:42 AM
Are gun forums becoming PC?

Nope. They are, however, becoming overrun with folks who ask questions that are either insanely stupid, or grossly misleading, or combinations thereof... Or who completely misrepresent who they are.

So... My parents are antis because they won't let me have a gun - who here can sell me one that will fit under a trenchcoat? It has to be one of the ceramic ones, so I can get it into the school...

We're not PC... We're disgusted and bored.

owlhoot
September 4, 2008, 01:55 AM
These forums are all privately owned and the moderators tend to reflect the views and attitudes of the owners.

The rest of us are guests. And we are obligated to respect the house rules. That seems reasonable to me. If we don't like it, we can start a board of our own and operate it as we wish, or we can look until we find a forum that is a better fit.

I find the gun forums I've visited to be remarkable civil. This forum is more "civil" than most. The name of the forum, The High Road, tells you that is the policy. I can live with that.

Catherine
September 4, 2008, 01:59 AM
YES. Very sad, eh? If people don't SEE what has happened - they are not paying attention because Political Correctness infects, yes, infects like a disease, all media outlets. Private and public owned places.

Some of us 'women' have been on public and private gun/political boards for 10 to 12 years. Some even longer than that time frame. Some of us had our own boards and moderated boards for 'other' people too.

Some of us used to do EMAIL lists for getting out PRO FREEDOM and PRO FIREARM issues, laws, etc. They were very OPEN in ideas especially back in the 90's when everyone hated you know who. Now if you hate a law or an idea or someone in 'politics' - both sides - you can't say that or you are called anti American or a 'terrorist' or a bigot or FILL in the blank names.

Yes,,, gun boards are TOO P.C.

However... the owner of that board can do whatever the heck he or she wants to do with it!

Unfortunately... some, not all, gun people are their own worst enemies.

Yours in liberty,

Catherine - I was one of those 'women' and some on THR remember me from many years ago, on boards, in person, in mail, from the telephone, shooting together, etc.

Josh Aston
September 4, 2008, 02:12 AM
Haven't been on Arfcom lately have you?

rbernie
September 4, 2008, 02:13 AM
Sometimes, we *are* our own worst enemy. But not in the way that some of us would suggest.

Sometimes we jump to conclusions, accuse without fact, and generally try to bend the meager scraps of data that we get to fit our personal world view. And sometimes, we just yell past each other about topics for which there will never be universal agreement, seemingly just to have our voice heard.

None of that helps us, and doing it in a public forum makes these foibles all the more potentially damaging. So sometimes, those discussions need to be, um, guided or simply deferred to more suitable forums. I do not see that as a bad thing, just as I do not see the job of a teacher or mentor or coach to be a bad thing.

That's not politically correctness at all. It's trying to encourage adult behavior.

And those that cannot tell the difference between adult behavior and PC behavior will not understand a word that I just wrote.

cliffy
September 4, 2008, 02:17 AM
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Catherine
September 4, 2008, 04:39 AM
I just asked my husband what arfcom was. He said it was an AR 15 website. I don't belong there and never belonged to that board.

He said that he used to go there but has not in some time.

I don't know if it is a site that the fill in the blank 'political' people took over in politics or if it is the 'type' that only thinks that THEIR GUN is the BEST.

I have no clue and I may go over and look at it. There used to be a high power rifle site that I read on and off over 10 years ago. It did not impress me, no offense, some of it was interesting but the rest of it discussed guns that I did not own, were not interested in, etc.

Some of those guys were 'macho, macho men'. They complained about women NOT being in guns but the few women who went there, who asked questions or were NEWBIES, as I was back in May 1998, except for using my late husband's gun were mainly IGNORED or made fun of. I never joined that board but I did read it on and off. I went elsewhere for forums, chats, my own books, research, library books, notes, my gun store, my own gun buying and so forth.

Yes, I was ONE of those women who asked if such and such 9MM ammunition was the same as x, y or z in another brand, 'name' or size. I asked my gun store man/owner, my husband, other old timers in the shooting sports, etc. I did know about 357Magnum and 38Special Plus P if I had to buy ammunition - same as with 22LR in bulk. I wanted to be sure that if I saw a sale or deal on 9MM for my Glock Model 19C, that I was getting the right thing. So they explained it to me. If you are NEW and learning, you are new and trying. I knew what model gun that I owned, how to shoot it, clean it and the safety measures in that gun as in the one that I used for years for my self defense gun - his revolver.

There are good and bad forums as there are good and bad people. Nothing is perfect in it's own way. Many of them differ or are INTO a special type of gun.

There is a big difference in being politically 'correct' all of the time and I do not happen to think that it is always about 'good manners'. I think that it is sometimes due to fear or 'rocking the boat' or if someone has ties to the government in a 'contract' or any other income - sponsor or NO sponsor... usually there is a reason for that. Sometimes it is the 'safe thing to do' - not be critical or to take a stand especially in a real Constitutional Issue!

Some people don't like distraction because they take 'offense' if you bring out a subject matter about an incident. The incident may be TRUE or above the law or Unconstitutional but if you dare to mention it... immediately the 'sensitive ones' may have their feelings hurt and call it x, y or z bashing or a party affiliation bashing even if it is just 'the facts'. My, oh my, how 'sensitive' this country has become (Gun people too!) and how much females and males feel threatened because their 'image' and/or LEADER may be tarnished. I think that it just nuts but so be it.

The owner of any TYPE of website and/or business can do what she or he wants to do. Some businesses have to follow certain rules but you get my DRIFT. If you don't get the drift on that issue = sorry about that! They own it and they make the 'rules'.

Yours in liberty,

Catherine

jakemccoy
September 4, 2008, 04:58 AM
If you really want to be annoyed, spend some time over at Calccw.com and Calguns.net. You're pretty much a nobody over at Calccw.com unless you have a California CCW permit. That basically means you happen to live in a rare county where the sheriff has a basic understanding of the Second Amendment. However, the CCW permit holders over at Calccw.com seem to think they're automatically more law-abiding and more knowledgeable than you. They're more annoying than that idiot you knew in college who knows he'll be running his daddy's company when he graduates. Anyway, after you become a somebody with your CCW permit, you’ll be allowed to talk without the resident stalker overanalyzing your every post and ruining your experience. Just make sure to bow down to the leaders of the website clique. Otherwise, you'll get beat down pretty quickly by the commanding mall ninja and his understudies. Yeah, Calccw.com, you guys can do a lot better.

Ridgerunner665
September 4, 2008, 05:30 AM
I think moderators are highly prone to overstepping their bounds. Sometimes it's a power trip, sometimes it's because they don't have it in them to keep personal views and feelings out of their way of running things but most often, I think it's because people tend to be a little unstable in judgment and basically, are imperfect.
I use to be a mod at a different forum, and know the world. I personally (other then not being able to watch the forum all day) was a model moderator who was fair and consistent by nature (I also avoided the position for nearly a decade) but noted that it's a rather scarce talent that requires someone who thinks and operates separate from the community and can separate personal feelings from his responsibility as moderator.
5 years ago, even gun forums were a different world. Allot of fighting and hatred was going on. Since then, many forums outlawed certain topics all together, namely politics and religion. My experience has been that this rule is best enforced only when it needs to be. The forums who did it this way have made out well, while the strict practitioners have run in to problems, though admittedly less then the problems they prevented. Unfortunately, especially among those who tend to end up moderators, the kind of judgment necessary to delicately handle these issues is not much of a talent and can be more damaging by trying to play fair, so they just resort to playing strict with only obvious exceptions.
It's like any human dealings. It's never perfect.
I hope I am right and never have to eat my words, but I myself think the moderators are for the most part, doing their best, and I am saying this just after facing a moderator decision here on THR that I strongly disagree with, but never challenged as I believe it was nothing more then an occasional mistake by an imperfect person and certainly never took personally.
Think of it like the job an umpire has in making the calls. Once you realize and accept that mods have a tough job of keeping the peace and are imperfect, you will find decisions you disagree with much less offensive.

Good post...even if it was more about moderators than PC forums.

The reason I say that is because I am still learning how to be a "good" moderator...and many of your points are "right on"...and it is hard to keep personal views out of it...but thats the way it should be done...the only way it can be done right.

I've been at it (moderating) for about 10 months now over on 1911auto forum (link in signature)...and I've had my moments, both good and bad...but I enjoy the job.

Are forums becoming more PC...yes they are...people are scared to say what they feel for fear of getting on some sort of "watch list" or something...I'm probably on all of the watch lists if there are any...I say what I mean...plain and simple.

Political correctness is not only ruining forums...its ruining the world IMO.

BTW, 1911auto forum is arguably the most laid back forum there is...we have rules, and we enforce them,...but we do it fair...everything gets voted on by mods and admins...its kinda like having a jury if you get in trouble...LOL. Its not a PC forum, but there are limits to how something should be "said"...Its best to come across as intelligent and adult, not mad and unstable...I'm sure most of you know what I mean by that.

This is a pretty neat place too...I enjoy it because there is always something going on here (LOTS of members)

1911auto is not even 1 year old yet, with only 1,600+ members, but they are a good bunch and there's more coming everyday.

Megatron
September 4, 2008, 05:34 AM
I take Political Correctness to mean concise in a polite manner. I think that is the original meaning and I am for it.

But many people associate the word political with thoughts of weak-willed politicians who strive to say things that do not offend anyone and as a result say nothing meaningful about anything. Many people strive to be politically incorrect so that they would not be classified as PC. This equates to finding something to be wrong and doing something more wrong to prove it.

As for gun forums I find that people will post their views in whatever manner they think is appropriate given their background and upbringing. Perhaps THR seems more civil and mature because that's the goal of this particular forum. I do not claim that this forum does not have uncivil or immature members; just read some members' posts and signatures and quotes.

But the moderators do a very good job of keeping threads civil and many members adhere to the family-friendly nature of this forum. I find that refreshing.

Catherine
September 4, 2008, 05:53 AM
That reminds me of some old CCW boards on Yahoo, MSN, etc. from 10 plus years ago!

Holy moly, talk about getting high B/P after reading some of those CCW boards. That is when many states did not have CCW because they had well... I can't say it HERE because it is 'political'! ; . (

I used to write all over the place and told 'them' including the 'special ones' regarding CCW - loaded gun in your vehicle too:

"What makes YOUR life worth anymore than mine? NOTHING! Absolutely nothing!"

Just thinking about some of the special ones versus peons, serfs and slaves makes my blood boil because of the younger ones in some professions or someone who had connections in a decent county in another state just could not understand that ONE person had special GUN rights over the other one. Venting... whew! Then all you heard was move to another state-it was my husband's home state after his Vietnam/around the world USN service, it was Your problem if it was not passed no matter HOW politically active you were, if you had an anti gun Dem or an anti gun, Rino, lying Gov. who said one thing during his election but ONLY went along with the Head of the F.O.P. and the State Highway Patrol who were VERY against the SERFS having the same CIVIL RIGHTS in self defense issues, you name it, it was said. They always seemed to blame the VICTIM or the person who did OBEY the freaking LAW but fought for CCW rights. Like it was OUR fault that the RINO GOV lied to us! Geesh! Like it was OUR fault because we lived in an anti gun state, county or town/city! YOU know how it goes now... we risk our lives in our profession and so we can have the RKBA in CCW issues so why should YOU complain, you mere serf?! You don't have our job, bla and bla. Well, I was NOT comparing MY JOB or my husband's WAR record (Two bronze stars, etc.) with their JOB - but I sure as H thought that MY LIFE WAS AT RISK just as much as ANY other person was in a HIGH risk or middle to low risk job because not being able to defend yourself OUT THERE concerned me just as much as 'them'! But by saying that... that made SOME of us bad guys or gals because we dared to DEMAND and speak up about ALL of these issues. Just like I feel sorry for someone LIVING in IL or NYC or WI or x, y or z who does NOT have the right to CCW or have a loaded gun in the vehicle... I feel badly for THEM! I feel sorry for states with no open carry too! I feel sorry about ALL of that because I don't think that there should be such Unconstitutional and restrictive laws for ANYONE - anywhere unless they are in jail or in an insane asylum. When they get out... another issue and full civil rights should be restored. I know that people do NOT always agree with me there. So be it.

Anyway... those boards are long gone and the ones that may still be there repeat the same old thing - if you speak up on CCW for the ones who don't have it - the victim and/or the NON CCW ALLOWED person is held at fault or scoffed at.

To Jake:
I hear you on your CA CCW situation. Take care.

Catherine

Tyris
September 4, 2008, 05:54 AM
I think that is the original meaning and I am for it.

I'd expect such ignorance from someone in california.

The original meaning of the word stems from policital re-education camps run by chairman Mao. Political correctness is not a good thing and is a vehicle of stifling speech used by the left.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness

It is mostly propagated by "useful idiots".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiots

Are you still "for it" ?

-T

TAB
September 4, 2008, 06:01 AM
Actually if anything, I'm finding gun boards to be less "PC" then they were a few years ago. The "lets talk about that" to " I'm right, your wrong" and " my rights are more important then any one elses"

Its not just gun board, I have also noticed it at the range, and etc. If you don't beleave "shall not be infrenged" to mean anything other then " I can carry a nuke in my back pocket any where I damn well please"
Your automaticll a "liberal"( ment as an insult) and a "ememy" Even when your trying to protect others rights... it does not matter " my rights are all that matters" has taken over.

What was mentioned above about some of the CCW sites, is 100% true. Its not just web sites, its other places people with guns like to go.

Catherine
September 4, 2008, 06:06 AM
Tyris, you are correct on the PC words and meaning. I understand it the same way that you do.

It is called SOCIAL engineering among a zillion other words too.

I remember when words used to mean one thing and now they mean another to 'society'. Propaganda!

It reminds me of the book by George Orwell called "1984" along with many other books.

The Left and the Right like to be politically correct in this day and age. NOT everyone in the R or L but quite a few of them.

Catherine

sernv99
September 4, 2008, 07:10 AM
I find this board tends to attract some weird folks who shouldn't be allowed to possess a firearm to begin if they are posting non-sense like "if you were in a riot, what kind of ammo would you use, fmj or hollow point." LMAO. Or people asking what would be a good mall ninja zombie killing shotgun to buy. Or people posting non-sense about what guns they would use to repel a Russian/Chinese/Al-Qaeda invasion of the U.S. Ok, what makes you think that you will repel a Russian invasion with your 20,000 rounds of ammo and your 10 AKs, 15 ARs, and 20 handguns??? Watched Red Dawn too many times huh?:uhoh:


even if some of this is just joking around, it doesn't really belong on a gun forum. It just gives the antis more fuel to add to the fire.

JohnBT
September 4, 2008, 08:41 AM
"Are the gun forums becoming PC"

No, there are as many different types of gun forums as there are people to post on them.

If a person isn't comfortable on one board I'm certain there is another one out there where they will fit right in.

My personal opinion is that what is often referred to as political correctness is really nothing more than a catch phrase for "They won't let me post any more of my nonsense on their board." ;)

John

Gentleman Ranker
September 4, 2008, 09:13 AM
Lacking any specific examples, I am not sure just what "more PC" means. My personal sense of it is that firearms forums may be changing somewhat, but if I'm seeing what I think I am, it's a Good Thing.

I can't prove it, and it may not be true everywhere, but I have the impression that people who shoot and are pro-RKBA generally may be becoming more "diverse". For example, the Pink Pistols (http://www.pinkpistols.org) group would have been impossible when I was young, and I've seen several posters on another board I read openly identify themselves as non-Christian or even atheist when a religious subject came up.

Now, I express no opinion whatever on sexual preference, religious belief or any other non-firearms-related Pressing Questions of the Day. I do, however, agree with our respected host that RKBA is a basic human right, and would like to see people of any and every other opinion come around to that point of view. Of course, that means that arguments on non-RKBA topics become more likely, and I would prefer to see those avoided when possible.

If, as I suspect, we are becoming "more PC" because a more "diverse" group of people are owning firearms, shooting, carrying, becoming more RKBA-aware, etc., and we need to be more careful about our language because of that, then I am all for it. Make no mistake, I'm all for freedom of speech, and all the rest of the Bill of Rights in addition to the 2nd, but if I need to tread a bit more lightly on some topics in some venues so as to advance the cause of the 2nd, I am happy to do that.

Of course, I could be entirely wrong about things being more (or less) PC, and the above is all MHO in any case.

regards,

GR

Hawk
September 4, 2008, 09:18 AM
It's probably easier to identify examples of stuff that's become "non-PC": words that, when used, will flush out a tiresome stream of "corrections" to what the mainstream holds as the correct terminology.

I believe I may have a small example: try using the term "accidental discharge". The next 6 out of 10 posts will explain, in excrutiating detail, that what you really mean is "negligent discharge".

I'm seeing "zero tolerance" becoming more pervasive but that's not PC - it's zero tolerance which is ugly in its own right. A high school student with an UZI in the lunchbox isn't the same as a student with a plastic knife that Kraft included with the cheese and cracker packaged snack. They shouldn't be treated the same. Bore-sighting your .50BMG on your neighbor's front porch while his kids are playing there isn't the same as sweeping somebody's foot with a broken-open firearm but zero tolerance tells us they are the same.

Zero tolerance might be behind the tendency to play safety monitor and chew people out for staged photos that shred one or more of Cooper's rules, even carrying the crusade off-site. Well, I guess that would be "busybody" more than PC or zero tolerance.

macadore
September 4, 2008, 09:50 AM
Are gun forums becoming PC?

Nope. They are, however, becoming overrun with folks who ask questions that are either insanely stupid, or grossly misleading, or combinations thereof... Or who completely misrepresent who they are.

So... My parents are antis because they won't let me have a gun - who here can sell me one that will fit under a trenchcoat? It has to be one of the ceramic ones, so I can get it into the school...

We're not PC... We're disgusted and bored.

+1

I am tired of intolerant religious fanatics using gun boards to force their religion down everyone’s throats (e.g., What caliber should I carry in church?). Take these questions up with your preacher.

dewage83
September 4, 2008, 09:58 AM
I believe it gives us a better rep. We all talk with "slang" and curse words occasionally, but on the public forums where children and women are, I believe we should refrain.

ZeSpectre
September 4, 2008, 10:02 AM
There will always be people who say "this is how people act, how do we work with that" and there will always be people who say "this is how people -should- act how do we force compliance".

JohnBT
September 4, 2008, 10:21 AM
"We all talk with "slang" and curse words occasionally, but on the public forums where children and women are, I believe we should refrain."

Hey, that's just good manners and good manners have been around forever. Well, thousands of years anyway. Much longer than that 20th Century invention - Political Correctness.

I suggest that everybody who hasn't google the history of political correctness. It's pretty well documented and defined.

John

22-rimfire
September 4, 2008, 10:25 AM
I have no idea what PC means relative to guns or gun forums. Somebody would have to explain that to me relative to THR.

ilbob
September 4, 2008, 10:45 AM
I think it is a trend that is maybe inevitable. As the boards get more and more participants, there is a perceived need by the owner(s) to "clean" things up.

Its one thing when it is 100 guys yakking to each other, sort of like guys at a construction site might act. But when a site gets really popular, it gets to be more like a public meeting, and some level of decorum is in order.

Hawk
September 4, 2008, 10:51 AM
I have no idea what PC means relative to guns or gun forums. Somebody would have to explain that to me relative to THR.

I'm not the expert on such matters (voted 'no, not really') but as JohnBT points out there's a considerable body of work on the topic.

Little bit here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness

I'd tend to think it's slippery trying to apply some of the various definitions to a gun forum but two seem to work:
1. inoffensive.
2. party line.

I wasn't able to come up with examples of where maverick views are pushed into a "party line" - "accidental discharge" might be one but it's admittedly trivial - it does seem to be able to offend some more than one would guess.

To the extent that "inoffensive" means "polite" it would be hard to object to - this isn't a men's club anymore. At least we hope it's not.

Elza
September 4, 2008, 10:54 AM
I generally find it depends more upon who is talking than what is being said. Some people are created more equal than others in any aspect of life you can name.

Gunnerpalace
September 4, 2008, 11:05 AM
Haven't been on Arfcom lately have you?


Big +1 THR is the like the smoking room on the Titanic, sit down relax and enjoy the stead stream of facts and firearms knowledge,

Arfcom is more akin to a wild west bar, GD in the biggest way,

That being said I think this has to do with the political threads yes it is a banned topic here but even though there is a link nobody likes to go to APS.
I have an account there but I just don't think of going over there (I go to Arfcom for political news anyway) if it is not allowed the mods have to enforce it.

Is THR becoming PC well... No, not yet I can still can a PSL a Dragunov and not get banned, so that's my .021/2 cents.

qdemn7
September 4, 2008, 11:08 AM
I have no idea what PC means relative to guns or gun forums. Somebody would have to explain that to me relative to THR.I'll explain it with a question. "Where is the forum for political debate and discussion on this website?

WayneConrad
September 4, 2008, 11:16 AM
THR is on a PR mission. It's not "PC" to insist that we act like it.

ConstitutionCowboy
September 4, 2008, 11:25 AM
I see many attempts to make these sites PC by those who get all bent out of shape any time someone espouses the truth about, and the all encompassing breadth of the Second Amendment's protection of our right to bear and keep arms. You hear, "Don't say that! You'll make all of us look like gun nuts!"

Idiots! "Gun nuts" IS a PC term! It's the politically correct term the press and the left uses to describe anyone who owns, and/or carries, and/or espouses the benefits of our right to keep and bear arms and the true nature of the Second Amendment.

Truth be told about the Second Amendment is that it protects the most benign and innocuous right we have! Owned and holstered arms are of no danger to anyone. Period.

Woody

ilbob
September 4, 2008, 11:47 AM
That being said I think this has to do with the political threads yes it is a banned topic here but even though there is a link nobody likes to go to APS.
While APS allows for posts in areas that THR does not, IMO it is more PC than THR and the mods (at least one of them) are quicker to pull the trigger on a thread.

Thumper_6119
September 4, 2008, 12:13 PM
Depends totally on the forum. Mainly the owner, admins, and staff's direction. Some are REALLY getting PC, while others are doing what they've always done, business as usual with no regards to political/social climate.

mike7465
September 4, 2008, 12:28 PM
I think that this one is. Half the time I can't decide if this place is filled with anti's or if people are trolling.
Anti open cary.
Never print with a firearm.
Concealed means concealed.
These are all things I read here often, and I think they are bad...

JohnBT
September 4, 2008, 12:40 PM
"I'll explain it with a question. "Where is the forum for political debate and discussion on this website?"

This is a site devoted to guns and gun ownership. How much clearer can it be stated?

Here is the first line of the Forum Rules:

"Welcome to The High Road, an online discussion board dedicated to the discussion and advancement of responsible firearms ownership."

Politics, cooking, religion, knitting and scuba diving are well represented on the www. This is a gun board.

John

JohnBT
September 4, 2008, 12:44 PM
"I think that this one is. Half the time I can't decide if this place is filled with anti's or if people are trolling.
Anti open cary.
Never print with a firearm.
Concealed means concealed.
These are all things I read here often, and I think they are bad..."

1. I don't want anyone to know I am armed. No open carry for me. Well, maybe hunting. I don't advertise that I have something worth stealing by wearing a $1000 watch or a $1000 gun on my belt.
2. I don't want anyone to know I am armed. No printing.
3. Repeat after me... concealed means concealed. :)

John
NRA Patron...not an anti.

GEM
September 4, 2008, 12:52 PM
Free market. If you don't like the show, don't go.

I prefer a forum that has a reasonable level of expertise, minimal childish bloodlust-cursing-sex, looney conspiracies, various hater of various groups, etc.

It's a gun forum of class. If that's not for you - the Internet is a wide place.

ilbob
September 4, 2008, 12:57 PM
I prefer a forum that has a reasonable level of expertise, minimal childish bloodlust-cursing-sex, looney conspiracies, various hater of various groups, etc.
Sometimes the looneys are good for a laugh, but too much of it gets old real fast. Anytime I see inforwars.com cited as a source I know it is time to move on to other posts. I am amazed at how many posts on other forums come right off the pages of such places.

I appreciate the guys that have expertise or experience in areas that will take the time to explain things in ways that are understandable to people without that expertise or experience.

Gadget
September 4, 2008, 01:18 PM
The proper use of language is a powerful weapon, as such it should be used with caution (think 4 rules.) I frequent this site because I appreciate the well-thought answers to the questions posted. The questions may not be well presented, but the answers are usually given by folks who have the expertise and the patience to deal with the poster's queries.

Modified 4 rules:
1. All words used will be examined.
2. Profanity or blasphemy will detract from the final impact of the statement.
3. Use of a powerful vocabulary adds to the credibility of the user.
4. Each technical community has its own language and slang.

JR47
September 4, 2008, 01:22 PM
Fairly new here, but am an Admin and Mod on other Boards. This isn't quite the PC problem that some would make it out to be. The Board has a purpose, but there will always be those either too lazy, or too dumb, and actually believe that what they have to say about any subject should be allowed.

The Admins and Mods have agreed to enforce the Rules and Regulations as posted by the owner of the Forum. We, the members, also agree to abide by them, as well.

PC is a defined term. The fact that it's been enlarged to cover whatever one needs doesn't mean that it meets that defined definition. While politics may have an impact on Gun Boards, we can see in just the responses here how some posters bring politics into every thread.

There are a lot of people who spend hours every week working at the grass-roots level to protect the RKBA. The problem with these types of post is that the laws at that level are, many times, local or state level. The responses from others, in different jurisdictions, is nearly always argumentative, and has no bearing on the laws in question. Most of us come here for information on guns, ammo, and maybe knives. Not politics.

There are Boards dedicated to such matters, unless one feels that this would make them a little fish in a big pond. There are Gun Boards that have dedicated political forums, as well. Head that way.

The idea that a concealed weapon should remain concealed is necessary in most jurisdictions today. Flashing, or printing, can result in a visit with several cops, and the loss of the CCW. Read your laws.

AD/ND? Who cares what you call it? The problem is that the bullet isn't impressed by any term. :rolleyes:

jahwarrior
September 4, 2008, 01:29 PM
i think some have gone way overboard with political correctness, and others have not. mods will lock a thread, or delete it altogether, for something based on their opinion of what's offensive; sometimes i agree, sometimes not. i know, i know, the 1st Amendment doesn't apply to interweb forums, but it can get tiring after a bit. i personally don't care about offending people, on the 'net or in the real world. at least here, if you find something you don't like, you can log off.

scrat
September 4, 2008, 01:36 PM
It depends on where you are at on the forums. if you hang out here in the general forum then it will seem that way. but if you hang out in the rifle section, the handgun section, the reloading section. Then the answer is now. Though politcal conversations come up from time to time. At THR we try to avoid them. Even topics like this may deserve the ban. (close the thread). Why because its not THR. The general forum is to be used to talk about guns in general. Not anything politcal. On the top right of this screen is a link it says APS. When you click that it will direct you to a sister forum where you can talk politics and aske people if they think gun forums are going political. When i log on to this part of the site i expect to see things about guns not politcs or off topic discussions. These are the rules you all agreed on when you first signed up to be a member. When all this stuff goes away. We have a gun forum. Dedicated to guns and talking about them, helping people with them new and old. This is what THR is

Soybomb
September 4, 2008, 01:39 PM
There's plenty of room on the internet for everyone. I like THR because I view it as a generally civil and polite forum. Racism, bigotry, and name calling aren't allowed. If you're into that sort of thing though you'll have no problem finding gun forums with that stuff.

gizamo
September 4, 2008, 01:42 PM
Everyone,

This discussion is about the gun boards in general. None specific, and certainly not about this forum in particular. I started this thread to see if there were opinions about the general direction guns boards are headed in, and if that is a reacition to the PC culture in this country....

Evidently, based on the poll ~ there are a majority of users on this site that believe there is a change...Currently as I post this 52% with just 12 % thinking it is status quo......

Giz

blackcash88
September 4, 2008, 02:07 PM
It all started with my sissy-pants nanny filter. :rolleyes:

DocCas
September 4, 2008, 02:22 PM
Are some gun forums overly PC? Yes. Some are downright censorious! I tend to avoid those forums. But we must all remember that when we are here we are guests in someone else's forum. When you are a guest in my home I expect you to keep your muddy shoes off the furniture. The same is true here. We agreed to the rules when we signed up and we are all aware this is a moderated forum. If we obey the rules there will be no problem. If we break the rules we will have created our own problems.

jakemccoy said:If you really want to be annoyed, spend some time over at Calccw.com and Calguns.net. You're pretty much a nobody over at Calccw.com unless you have a California CCW permit. I have a California CCW license (in San Diego County, no less) and I am still a nobody over at Calccw.com! :DThat basically means you happen to live in a rare county where the sheriff has a basic understanding of the Second Amendment. However, the CCW permit holders over at Calccw.com seem to think they're automatically more law-abiding and more knowledgeable than you. They're more annoying than that idiot you knew in college who knows he'll be running his daddy's company when he graduates. Anyway, after you become a somebody with your CCW permit, you’ll be allowed to talk without the resident stalker overanalyzing your every post and ruining your experience.Oh no, he will still stalk you. He is a self-appointed SME on every subject you can think of! :DJust make sure to bow down to the leaders of the website clique. Otherwise, you'll get beat down pretty quickly by the commanding mall ninja and his understudies. Yeah, Calccw.com, you guys can do a lot better.Yes, but there are also some really good people on that forum. I put up with the jerks to have access to the good people. Kind of like real life. :)

blackcash88
September 4, 2008, 02:38 PM
ARF15 and Glocktalk are the worst. They'll ban you for anything without so much as a warning just because you said something they didn't like even though no rules were broken. Apparently, there are some "sacred cows" over there and you cannot disagree with them on ANYTHING. That arrogant *********, the Rabbi, is the absolute worst.

Theakforum is bad, too. I posted some of those Sarah Palin photoshop pictures (they were even allowed/seen here) and was banned for two weeks without warning and I was in no violation of the rules. Heck, they even have a forum dedicated to full nudity. :rolleyes:

JohnBT
September 4, 2008, 02:44 PM
"i personally don't care about offending people, on the 'net or in the real world."

Response #1. What do your friends and family think about your offensive behavior?

R#2. Is that why you don't use the Shift key? Sticky Keys is available for those who only want to, or must, type with one hand.

John

blackcash88
September 4, 2008, 02:48 PM
Sticky Keys is available for those who only want to, or must, type with one hand.

:scrutiny: :eek:

Owen
September 4, 2008, 03:00 PM
I only really spend time on THR.

Can you point to specific things that make you think that THR is becoming more or less "PC" and if that's good or bad?

22-rimfire
September 4, 2008, 03:23 PM
Honestly, I think THR has a defined purpose and PC has nothing to do with it other than keeping the bickering down that often happens with political discussions.

What is PC on a gun board? I would think anything about guns is PC as long as the comment supports 2A rights. IF I say I hate EBRs and they should be banned, everyone will jump down my throat and hope I die a slow death.... Not PC HERE, but in the rest of the world, it is a PC comment to many. If I said that at another forum, I might get treated like one of the family.

I see few real changes in topics and the quickness that individual threads are locked is related to content mostly.. topic covered with perhaps some low road comments.

KBintheSLC
September 4, 2008, 03:40 PM
Political threads have always been a problem here and elsewhere. The part I don't understand is that politics are such a HUGE aspect of gun ownership. Saying that we can't discuss them on a gun forum is beyond me.

However, I don't make the rules here, and don't have control over the all mighty "delete" button. So, I do my best to abide by the somewhat irrational norms.

siglite
September 4, 2008, 03:40 PM
AD/ND? Who cares what you call it? The problem is that the bullet isn't impressed by any term.

That one gets my vote for line of the day.

I run a firearm board. And I have to wonder what the poster's point is. I've been doing this forum thing for a LONG time and seen a lot of threads locked, people banned, forums come and go, etc... But the one thing that seems to be constant, is the charge of an owner/admin being PC when they won't allow certain rhetoric on their boards.

I'd say, most commonly, this rhetoric hinges around certain current foreign policy issues and a related religion. Lots of owners and mods feel that such rhetoric detracts from the mission of firearms discussion.

"YOU WON'T LET ME CALL ALL MUSLIMS BLOODTHIRSTY BABYKILLERS! YOU'RE JUST BEING P.C."

"YOU CLOSED MY THREAD WHERE I SAID ALL DEMOCRATS ARE BEDWETTING LIBERAL COMMUNIST GUN COLLECTORS! YOU'RE BEING P.C."

Yeah... I can see some mods/admins/owners getting called PC for shutting down stuff like that. Have seen it. Repeatedly. I've shut down threads like that on the forum I manage. That junk does NOTHING to advance second amendment rights, nor our acceptance among the general population of voters. In fact, I think it's probably damaging.

If getting called PEE CEE is the price for keeping things on track, I imagine most mods/admins/owners whose interest actually lies in the advancement of firearms knowledge and rights, will be just fine with it.

BryanP
September 4, 2008, 03:47 PM
I'll explain it with a question. "Where is the forum for political debate and discussion on this website?

It was removed because people couldn't manage to politely discuss political topics without engaging in personal attacks on people with whom they disagreed. If you don't like it you're free to start your own discussion board, manage it, host it, pay for bandwidth and hardware, and run it any way you please.

22-rimfire
September 4, 2008, 03:54 PM
I also think poltics plays a very important role in general firearm discussions and should be considered pertinent to gun forums. Here APS is set aside for this purpose, but I gather few really go there. I know I don't.

I think anti-2A comments should be allowed and generally they are. Why? Because they make people look at their own beliefs and ultimately firm up support for the Second ammendment gun rights overall within gun boards. BUT, the comments generate such a firestorm of criticism (often much of it personal) that if you believe such things you're better off just keeping those thoughts to yourself as a member of THR or most other gun forums.

I haven't looked today, but when Putin shot that lion with a tranquilizer dart to reportedly save the camera crew... that was a topic that merited discussion and I never saw one thread. But it borders soundly on politics and one's feelings about Putin specifically as opposed to what he reportedly did.

lazyeye
September 4, 2008, 03:55 PM
Yes.
Because we are trying to not give the Anti's ammo.

nicki
September 4, 2008, 04:21 PM
The gun boards are getting more people from the left side of the political spectrum, so they are going more toward the middle.

However, I would not equate that with "Political Correctness".

Let's be honest, "Political Correctness" is about promoting a narrow political view wheter it is right or left.

This board probably attracts primarily a mix of Conservatives and Libertarians with a few liberals to boot.

What all of us must remember that if we look at our core values, we probably will find most of us have more in common than we think.

Yes, we have differences, but if we focus on what we agree on, I bet that we will find that many of our differences just aren't that important.

There will always be no win issues, and for most of those, I agree to disagree.

Nicki

blackcash88
September 4, 2008, 04:27 PM
For future reference, try to be less of a cretin.

Thanks.

-Mgmt

ilbob
September 4, 2008, 04:32 PM
"YOU CLOSED MY THREAD WHERE I SAID ALL DEMOCRATS ARE BEDWETTING LIBERAL COMMUNIST GUN COLLECTORS! YOU'RE BEING P.C."
Are you suggesting democrats aren't bed wetting liberal commies? :)

That seems more like a post that is just rude rather than PC. Civility is a good idea.

Niner
September 4, 2008, 04:47 PM
Not PC seems to be PC. How many times have we all seen somebody ranting about something at some site and start off with a remark of how independant a thinker they are and how proud they are to be not politically correct? Then they going on to say something that most of the people they are talking to would agree with and the poster knew that to start with.

My problem with most gun sites and "PC" question is how everybody seems to fall into line, maybe without realizing it, and all regular "members" seem to accept some unstated agreement on the correct attitude on a certain collection of topics particular to the individual site. And if anybody who has some different opinion shows up..... he better be prepared to defend himself. The anointed will gather to execute him with words quickly and without mercy.

What is PC for one gun site is often not PC on another. Take on the Milsurp sites, some are "no bubba's allowed to talk about sporterization" and others were actually started to be sure that "sporterization" is a forum topic to itself. Take a contrary opinion at a site that holds the other view and it will be the last time you do.

Everybody has to find the sites he feels comfortable enough with without feeling like a whore in church for posting on them.

springmom
September 4, 2008, 05:09 PM
No, I don't think they're more "politically correct". However, if you want the right to call people derogatory names based on ethnicity, religion, or gender, this is not the place for you.

And thank you, Oleg and moderators, that it isn't.

We are a VERY diverse bunch, we gunowners, and firearms ownership is about the only thing we are going to agree on. It is common sense to be polite and avoid being inflammatory and derogatory. What some call PC is nothing more than good manners, refraining from starting fights in what is essentially somebody else's house (in this case, Oleg Volk's). There isn't a person here, I'd bet, who doesn't self-censor when he's around his or her boss, grandmother, children, or others. Why complain, then, about not being able to write anything you please, regardless of how offensive, with the concomitant whine about mods being PC?

We already pick and choose our behaviors in the real world, based on what's appropriate for the setting. Why, then, this insistence that EVERYTHING is appropriate because it's on the web?

If you want rough-and-tumble, it's out there. Have fun when you find it. But don't complain because some sites want polite and reasoned discourse instead of a verbal barroom brawl.

My highly overinflated $.02, of course worth what you paid for it.

Springmom

hardwarehacker
September 4, 2008, 05:42 PM
Compare today's forum membership and their postings with those of a few years ago. Now there are lots more people on the internet, and they have a wider range of opinions, styles, interests, etc. A few years ago, some of the gun boards I sampled seemed to be small groups of highly opinionated males who were in lockstep on most things and like to keep reminding each other of how absolutely right they were. About the only differences of opinion they tolerated seemed to be which powder to use in what calibers. Any other dissent was grounds for cussing, swearing, banishment and occasionally outright threats or harassment.

Compare that with THR here and now. People here are generally very civil and respect each other as individuals with something to say. They really listen to each other. This requires attitudes and manners which are often similar to those which a truly 'politically correct' forum might impose by force, but here seem to be natural elements of the forum's culture. That says a lot about the members and administrators of this forum.

Neo-Luddite
September 4, 2008, 06:55 PM
The PC movement as such has its linguistic origins in the APA guidlines for using gender inclusive language in publications and papers issued about 1977/78. It was an attempt to 'neuter' pronouns commonly used as generic when refering to both sexes and related things. A poor solution to a non-problem that has had snow-balling cultural effects and limits authorial rhetorical choices.

From where I sit, THR (I know we aren't JUST talking about THR) insists on a ceratin civility and politeness. That is partly why I hang out here and not a forum moderated by squirrel monkeys.

But THR is FAR from 'PC' in the sense that opinions rendered respectfully aren't condemed even if they are fairly out there and marginal. Sexism and serious rauchiness isn't seen much here, but again--that comes back to good manners.

Owen Sparks
September 4, 2008, 07:06 PM
I know this one is.

I once cited some statistics about violent crime percentages broken down by race and the thread was very quickly shut down.

Werewolf
September 4, 2008, 07:14 PM
I once cited some statistics about violent crime percentages broken down by race and the thread was very quickly shut down.You mean like the FBI stats that say that 13% of the population is responsible for 65% of violent crime and if you break out the segment of the 13% that are responsible it's like 3% of the population is responsible for 65% of violent crime.

Stats like that?

Truth is not a defense - don't you know that? That's what PC is all about - quelling hard truths that some just don't want to have to deal with. Say something isn't so long enough or make enough people afraid to speak the truth and the truth is not the truth anymore.

Funny how that works...

Oana
September 4, 2008, 07:34 PM
I don't see a drastic shift toward being "more PC". I *do* see consistently less chest-thumping, profanity and general incivility here than I do at some other places. But that's the way it's always been (as far as I know), and that's why I like THR. It's not "PC" to ask people to be civil. Unfortunately, some people (not implying the OP) seem to think that if they can't spout off whatever they want, the mods are being "PC" or "liberal" or "censors" or whatever.

gizamo
September 4, 2008, 09:24 PM
Slowly headed uphill with 55 percent seeing the change. What is interesting is that the folks that see status quo are maintaining a steady 14 percent, but that is because the folks who are in the middle ground are falling off. That group is the only group that has moved numbers much....

Thanks to everyone who participated, I think just about every type of opinion has been voiced here. So perhaps it is time to let this thread just fade away:)

Giz

jakemccoy
September 5, 2008, 12:34 AM
If you're interested in a site that's not PC at all, go over to Glocktalk.com. I just got done leaving a thread where most people were arguing that using deadly force to protect property of any value (even a Happy Meal) is justified. I disagreed not so politely. The site owner gave me an infraction. Cool beans, I told him his site does not resemble reality. He got more pissed...lol

SCKimberFan
September 5, 2008, 10:08 AM
The PC movement as such has its linguistic origins in the APA guidlines for using gender inclusive language in publications and papers issued about 1977/78. It was an attempt to 'neuter' pronouns commonly used as generic when refering to both sexes and related things. A poor solution to a non-problem that has had snow-balling cultural effects and limits authorial rhetorical choices.

I agree with this post by NeoLuddite. This is PC. From where I sit I see PC as a way to be sure no one is "offended". Unfortunately, being "offended" has become not being able to speak out against anything that someone else doesn't agree with. Hate crimes are the perfect example of PC. No person's lifestyle, race, or gender is to be valued more than anyone else's. It is a crime, period.

PC is about silencing discussion. THR is a forum that generally permits discussion.

rbernie
September 5, 2008, 12:53 PM
I once cited some statistics about violent crime percentages broken down by race and the thread was very quickly shut down.That doesn't mean that they Mods didn't like the topic; it means that they didn't like the, ah, broad range of rhetoric that was sure to follow. Past experience in topics dealing with race, religion, and poly-ticks has shown that a board of this size and with such a broad range to participants is not likely to keep such discussions civil for too long.

Werewolf
September 5, 2008, 01:24 PM
is not likely to keep such discussions civil for too long.
So...

When did the right not to be offended become the theme of the day?

That seems to me to be the crux of PC and why it is - well - just WRONG!

We spend so much time and effort trying not to offend, spinning things in a positive light, calling dung plant food that we end up not being able to say anything of real substance because it's just too hard and time consuming to do so.

There is no right to not be offended or at least there didn't used to be.

More's the pity - our society tries so hard to be PC that it has become blind to reality. AND that's gonna have some really bad ramifications in the future.

JDoe
September 5, 2008, 01:30 PM
I am seeing a huge drift towards gun forums becoming politically correct.
I do not understand it, but somehow know what is at stake...discussions that of importance to many members are being banned...

Heh, I've only been around gun forums since May of 2008 so I don't have the experience of years like some other do. BUT I can report that in my searches for gun forums I like that there are a huge number of non P.C. gun forums on the net.

macadore
September 5, 2008, 02:27 PM
I am not offended by reasonable arguments but I am offended by name calling and other shallow arguments (e.g., well ewe a mo-ron, ewe don’t know nuthin, ewe a liberal, ewe a left winger, ewe an anti, and so on). Reading comments like that is a waste of time and responding to them is an even greater waste of time. What one may, or may not, be is not germane to any argument. The only reason to resort to name calling is because one does not have facts or logic on one’ side.

I left Glocktalk because the level of discourse degenerated to the Junior High level. I hope that does not happen here. I applaud the efforts of THR moderators to keep THR from descending to that level. Sometimes it seems they are fighting a loosing battle.

Rmart30
September 5, 2008, 09:13 PM
So... My parents are antis because they won't let me have a gun - who here can sell me one that will fit under a trenchcoat? It has to be one of the ceramic ones, so I can get it into the school...

I have about 10 firearms forums I visit almost nightly and Ive never seen anything that blatantly stupid asked on any of them.
Im sure somewhere out there some dufuss has asked that and worse before.

Political threads have always been a problem here and elsewhere. The part I don't understand is that politics are such a HUGE aspect of gun ownership. Saying that we can't discuss them on a gun forum is beyond me.

I agree with that. IF it can be civilly discussed I think they should it should be allowed.

gizamo
September 5, 2008, 11:00 PM
Kind of surprising.

I expected big shifts in the Poll numbers. But without question, they have stayed the same within 1-2 percentage points throughout the duration of the poll. Never expected that. So on a limited sampling, the folks that see a change are still well over 50% and status quo is still at 14%. The folks in the middle are the only thing fluctuating...

Interesting in that I have never seen such a static set of numbers associated with a multi day poll....

Giz

JImbothefiveth
September 5, 2008, 11:14 PM
Well, I've been shooting a good while, but not reading gun forums for too long. I think they have changed, but not too much. It seems the new rules are mainly concerned with TEOTWAWKI scenarios, and when people say that samurai codes should apply to CCW.(Yes , someone actually posted about how he followed a samurai code. Nowadays that would have gotten locked, and with good reason)

Blofeld
September 5, 2008, 11:21 PM
I just left one that was a model of what a forum should be. Once upon a time.

At some juncture, new people were treated poorly, mods would tear you a new one for essentially disagreeing with their personal agendas, and the whole thing just spiralled until all positive control was gone.

Sadly, once it was a place where if you had a gun related question, you could ask it without fear. If you had a question about a specific gun, somebody would offer to let you try theirs.

From what I've seen here so far, if a mod sees a thread rapidly getting out of hand, it's squashed quickly, and more times than not, that's a good thing.

I've watched threads elsewhere begin with a poll not unlike this, and end up with 250 posts full of personal attacks, personal bans, and cover the Glock vs. XD, 9mm vs. .45, race, politics and "stupid Question" topics, before they were closed.

Loosedhorse
September 5, 2008, 11:42 PM
--The reason that so few women excel (talking Nobel prize level here) at higher mathematics is that their brains are not as suited to it as men's.

--A religion (such as some branches of Islam) that rewards its faithful for murdering non-believers is a worse religion than one that preaches tolerance.

--The reason that some people cling to religion and guns is they are bitter about being left behind economically.

If these statements aren't erased by a moderator, then I guess we're not too PC yet, and we're still allowed to make statements that might well be true--even if some people disagree, take offense, and react by name-calling.

(By the way, the first statement was put forward by the former president of Harvard. The middle is simply the "value-judgment" opposite of the commonly heard "relative morality" argument that radical islam is no more dangerous than radical Christianity, and that it was American imperialism that caused 9/11. And the last statement is a trick--since it was said by a liberal, it can't be non-PC, by definition.)

Comments? :)

Sylvan-Forge
September 6, 2008, 02:23 AM
A few others have described a minor (on THR) but troubling condition succinctly enough, so I'll try and make it sound a little more spooky;

Beware GroupThink.












Yeh, I'm guilty too.


.

Blacky
September 11, 2008, 03:22 PM
If you really want to be annoyed, spend some time over at Calccw.com and Calguns.net. You're pretty much a nobody over at Calccw.com unless you have a California CCW permit. That basically means you happen to live in a rare county where the sheriff has a basic understanding of the Second Amendment. However, the CCW permit holders over at Calccw.com seem to think they're automatically more law-abiding and more knowledgeable than you. They're more annoying than that idiot you knew in college who knows he'll be running his daddy's company when he graduates. Anyway, after you become a somebody with your CCW permit, you’ll be allowed to talk without the resident stalker overanalyzing your every post and ruining your experience. Just make sure to bow down to the leaders of the website clique. Otherwise, you'll get beat down pretty quickly by the commanding mall ninja and his understudies. Yeah, Calccw.com, you guys can do a lot better.
Calguns (http://calgunsfoundation.org/main/index.php/board) is a business. I would like to hold on to the idea that they are an important and useful service for all California Firearms Communitys and not just a service for the CG website clique. Calccw is just a ghost town.

siglite
September 11, 2008, 03:55 PM
Comments?

You have much to learn about trolling. *GOOD* trolling requires a touch of subtlety. Can't be too overt.

Templar223
September 11, 2008, 05:12 PM
Just this one.

John

vtoddball
September 12, 2008, 10:21 AM
Definitely. I've seen way too many threads shut down because the mods were afraid someone might be "offended." If you're offended by fellow shooters teasing you or finding fault with your particular techniques, then grow up and find a knitting forum. Some things can't be discussed while maintaining a "sensitive" tone.

I also find it irritating when a thread gets locked because it's been discussed before. Well, maybe it has, but maybe I don't feel like going through a 150+ post thread and neither is anyone else. What's the point of commenting on posts made by people 6 months ago who either don't visit anymore or don't want to rehash that particular thread? I don't know about anyone else, but if I see a thread over 60ish posts, I don't even bother. Who has the time?

HGUNHNTR
September 12, 2008, 01:49 PM
I hope they are, we have a public forum. At times some of the comments I read on this forum makes me considerer never coming back.

PzGren
September 12, 2008, 01:58 PM
Yes, the prevailing ideology is being followed. Adolf aimed for it and achieved mind control. When people are afraid of public pressure to speak their mind, the first amendment has been circumvented.

Freedom means not to be afraid of anything. Even making a fool out of oneself by saying something wrong.

Zedo
September 12, 2008, 02:01 PM
Comment removed because you seem incapable of making your arguments civilly. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that your post was a perfect illustration of why forums need moderation.


Best,
-Mgmt.

NonConformist
September 12, 2008, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by Josh Aston

Haven't been on Arfcom lately have you?


BIG +1


Some get more PC(like Arfcom) for their advertisers, its all about $$$

Some because every generation is progressively more tolerant of authority, and 'reasonable restrictions' and controls etc

Every year, this nation is progressively more liberal and thats the end result, PC!

george29
September 12, 2008, 02:17 PM
THR mods have shown remarkable restraint in intervening in threads and keeping this a decent forum. The owner comes from a place that does not have civil liberties and threfore this is very important to him. Every so often I get a post deleted by a mod and just take it into stride even if I believe it may not have been reasonable. The internet allows us to freely express thoughts and sometimes we don't properly express those thoughts which then come across as venemous. As a society in general we have become more PC and at times I hate it and other times I am appreciative of it. For example, I believe in equal rights but not in restitutive demands by groups that demand more than equal shares because in the past they were wronged. As a progressively thinking White Male, I am glad that Gays, Women and Blacks are allowed the same rights once denied them, and in some ways, their fight isn't yet over, but I don't want to pay the price for my skin color or the fact that I am straight either. Yes, we are more PC, and like everything else, when done in moderation, it is a good thing. I think THR is still a fine place.


Maybe I am confusing Tolerance with PC. I do believe that the negative side to PC is that it replaced politeness in many places.

HGUNHNTR
September 12, 2008, 05:31 PM
pzgren---"Freedom means not to be afraid of anything. Even making a fool out of oneself by saying something wrong."

Mission accomplished.

rswartsell
September 12, 2008, 06:09 PM
I feel that almost any thought, opinion, or viewpoint can be represented in a civil and respectful manner and my experience with THR so far has been that the thoughts and opinions that CANNOT be expressed here would do little or nothing to further the RKBA cause, or much enlighten anyone.

If we can be legitimately viewed by those uneducated regarding firearms, or anyone who would oppose the 2nd Amendment, as hateful, dangerous, incendiary, bigoted people who cannot keep differences of opinion, viewpoint or beliefs in perspective then our opponents win.

If by too P.C. you mean you can't rant about how you hate an institution or person, if you feel the only way to meet an opponent is by going to war, if you can only engage in ideological competition and exchange by insulting or demeaning, then I'm all for P.C.

having re-read my own post I'm not so sure that I'm for run on sentences though.:uhoh:

Rustynuts
September 12, 2008, 06:40 PM
Just this one.

John

Agreed. You're on the wrong forum asking this. Or maybe the right one, depending.

vis-à-vis
September 12, 2008, 06:44 PM
I don't really know, but probably. I don't read THR much anymore because we only talk about the same stuff over and over again due to the limited field, which has its positives and negatives. Now-a-days, I pretty much just look at pictures or scan the legal section for anything pertaining to states around KY.

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