Ah, what the heck. It doesn't affect me at all. I'll let it go...


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230RN
September 4, 2008, 11:44 AM
Page 115 Sep 2008 American Rifleman

Yes. Yes it does. It affects you directly.

Just like all the little encroachments that don't affect you because "I don't own that kind of gun," or, "What the heck, I never intend to get an out of State CCW," or, "Yeah, it's a good idea to make that a Wilderness Area."

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nplant
September 4, 2008, 11:51 AM
The TSA is so wrapped up in encroachments on little things that it's not funny. I don't own anything in a caliber larger than 0.30" in diameter, but I don't see any logic behind the restriction, and therefore, I would oppose it.

They confiscated my toothpaste, for Pete's sake. And gave me attitude while they did it. Made the implication that I'd be safer without it. But hey, they are the ones that are paid to protect us.

hqmhqm
September 4, 2008, 11:53 AM
The TSA is the wedge at the forefront of turning the USA into a fascist police state. If there is even a drop of revolutionary blood left in us, we should be
sending these junior gestapo wannabe's to the unemployment line, starting at the very top.

Eyesac
September 4, 2008, 12:02 PM
Sometimes I just don't understand where some of these laws come from. Even some of our silliest laws I can usually see what they were trying to do, but I don't know about this one. Who are they trying to prevent from doing what w/ this law?

Old Grump
September 4, 2008, 12:06 PM
So my 300 WBY Mag is okay but my 32 Winspcl is a terrorist weapon?

woodybrighton
September 4, 2008, 12:28 PM
exactly
I think most people would consider 30mm HE rounds excessive for normal luggage.
and .50 cal anti material rounds as well but there not supposed to be available to civilians anyway.
somebody who drafted the regs unsurprisingly knew nothing about shooting.
Ask 99% of people if rifle over .50 should be in civilian hands they go no imagining something like that mad 20mm rifle. My only real concern about a 20mm rifle is where the hell you could use one safely:eek:
show them .577 big game rifle the thinking ones would go yeah thats ok. the anti's would go you could kill passenger jets with it ban it :(

scrat
September 4, 2008, 12:39 PM
So if im going back east with a .54cal muzzle loader what they are going to take my lead. Pertty dumb. Not like im going to try to nock out an airliner with a one shot muzzle loader

deaconkharma
September 4, 2008, 12:47 PM
if they hadn't taken our rights to self defense on planes in the first place.

So, how do we get this to go away? Start taking small charters? I know when I went to the airport to fly small planes I wasn't checked searched or asked...
Going Private might just be the way to go.
people stop flying commercial and the message will get across.At least that's my guess.
Someone said it above and I totally agree. They find the place we are most likley to give up freedom for safety because it is a "small inconvenience" and they use it as the "wedge at the forefront of turning the USA into a fascist police state".

hso
September 4, 2008, 12:55 PM
Someone who doesn't like .50 cal ammo has twisted an interpretation of the DOT reg so that TSA would stick their nose into the issue.

The fact is that this is an interpretation of a DOT regulation and not within TSA's purview. DOT needs to issue a regulatory interpretation (and when pushed they will) that says that cased .50 ball ammunition is legal for the owner to carry as standard ammunition.

blackcash88
September 4, 2008, 01:06 PM
I don't own anything in a caliber larger than 0.30" in diameter, but I don't see any logic behind the restriction, and therefore, I would oppose it.

You sure about that? All you shoot is .17, .22, .25, etc??? :scrutiny:

Standing Wolf
September 4, 2008, 01:35 PM
The TSA is the wedge at the forefront of turning the USA into a fascist police state.

I'd be inclined to say "tip of the iceburg" rather than "wedge," but I doubt it makes a speck of difference. The sad, sorry, simple fact of the matter is we're being incrementally led to accept police state intrusion into each least aspect of our lives. We're being turned into docile Russian peasants.

230RN
September 4, 2008, 02:01 PM
The sad, sorry, simple fact of the matter is we're being incrementally led to accept police state intrusion into each least aspect of our lives. We're being turned into docile Russian peasants.

Marche Slav!

All as above, just exactly my point(s).

Since we have such a mish-mosh in terms of caliber designations, why don't we just get SAAMI to rename the .577 Nitro Express the ".499 Express?" Or the 12.9 mm Rhino Buster? (I'm just using the .577 as an example, as did the NRA.)

After all, it seems they are just going by nomenclature, which leaves open the question as to whether you could check in with .50 BMG ammo or not.

Do they really mean "over" .50 caliber? If so, then .50 BMG would be OK, unless somebody tells them that the .50 BMG round's bullet is .510" in diameter.

Wow. A whole 5 thousandths of an inch on the radius!

Did whomever made this decision have to demonstrate any knowledge of ballistics at his employment interview?

Why, I guess not.

And if not, then what qualifies him/her to make this kind of decision in the first place?

Nothin', I guess.

It's sorta like the "length of a knife blade" laws.

Measured from where to where, and at what level of precision?

Obviously, this kind of arbitrary "regulation-making" has got to stop.

Expecially when the regulators are incompetent to rule.

Marche Slav!

--------
That's a good one, scrat! :)

siglite
September 4, 2008, 02:19 PM
So, how do we get this to go away? Start taking small charters? I know when I went to the airport to fly small planes I wasn't checked searched or asked...
Going Private might just be the way to

This is exactly what I have done, and what I will continue to do.

DoubleTapDrew
September 4, 2008, 02:40 PM
It's fashonable to freak out about things 1/2" or bigger.
This is really going to suck for hunters going on safari in Africa also. You probably can't pick up .577+ at your average African drugstore and even if you can it'll shoot different than what you sighted in for.
I think if you look up "security theater" in the dictionary there is a picture of a slack-jawed TSA agent prodding a stripped child with a metal detector wand.

springfield30-06
September 4, 2008, 03:36 PM
Sometimes I just don't understand where some of these laws come from. Even some of our silliest laws I can usually see what they were trying to do, but I don't know about this one. Who are they trying to prevent from doing what w/ this law?

I do not own and will probably never own anything anywhere near that type of cartridge but it Really ticked me off reading that. It makes no sense at all. What is a round over .50 cal going to do just sitting there in the luggage compartment? It's not like it's some type of unstable explosive... It seems to me that whoever made this one up does not know a thing about firearms, is trying to promote some type of micro-controlling government or both.

Dravur
September 4, 2008, 03:37 PM
Not like im going to try to nock out an airliner with

I would have to see the size of that Bow......

Wes Janson
September 4, 2008, 03:43 PM
Hate to break up the party, but have there actually been any reports of TSA officials refusing to allow a passenger to check in baggage containing big-bore sporting ammunition? The NRA "have (been) told" that there is such a restriction, but I'd like some actual proof that there is indeed such a policy. I can call up ATF and get some idiot on the phone to tell me that revolvers are illegal or somesuch, and print up a big warning over it, but that doesn't mean squat. I'd like to see either evidence of travelers being turned away, or actual TSA policy stating changes to the ammunition policies.

IllHunter
September 4, 2008, 03:44 PM
I have found ways around flying since 9/11 as I have witnessed the stupidity that reigns at TSA. I knew in my heart if push came to shove, I might stick a ball point pen in someone's eye to prove a point. Then they'd have to ban ballpoints and we'd be back to those sloppy fountain pen things.:D

blackcash88
September 4, 2008, 03:46 PM
I don't know, those nibs on fountain pens can be pretty damned sharp.

EOD Guy
September 4, 2008, 04:40 PM
Someone who doesn't like .50 cal ammo has twisted an interpretation of the DOT reg so that TSA would stick their nose into the issue.

The fact is that this is an interpretation of a DOT regulation and not within TSA's purview. DOT needs to issue a regulatory interpretation (and when pushed they will) that says that cased .50 ball ammunition is legal for the owner to carry as standard ammunition.


It's not a TSA interpretation of a DOT regulation. The DOT regulation is very clear that small arms ball ammunition is classed as a 1.4S Explosive Material IAW 49CFR. Ammunition of .50 caliber or less can be reclassed as ORM-D. Anything larger than .50 cal cannot be reclassed and remains a 1.4S Explosive. Explosive materials are not allowed in baggage.

TSA is a part of the DOT and their regulations also reference the DOT Hazardous Materials Regulations in 49CFR.

The Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration is the part of the DOT which regulates hazardous materials in transportation. They would say that they are not concerned since the material in question which is the property of a passenger is not "in commerce."

However, the FAA (also part of DOT) has regulations forbidding the carrying of explosive materials in passenger baggage.

DOT can issue special permits which are exceptions to the regulations for specific purposes. They could issue one covering sporting ammunition over .50 caliber. Someone with a direct interest would have to make a formal request, however. SAAMI would be a good organization to do so. There may already be such an exception, but I don't have time right now to go through the permits which are posted on the DOT web site.

highorder
September 4, 2008, 05:05 PM
Quote:
Not like im going to try to nock out an airliner with...

I would have to see the size of that Bow......


I don't care who you are that's funny right there :)

Eyesac
September 4, 2008, 07:23 PM
I know, just put all your ammo in boxes labeled .40s&w...:neener:

larry_minn
September 4, 2008, 10:42 PM
So how many people who travel with a shotgun are going to run into trouble? IIRC a 12 guage is .68" dia. larger then a 50.. My goodness what if they have a (HORRORS) TEN GUAGE!!!

EOD Guy
September 5, 2008, 10:57 AM
So how many people who travel with a shotgun are going to run into trouble? IIRC a 12 guage is .68" dia. larger then a 50.. My goodness what if they have a (HORRORS) TEN GUAGE!!!

The .50 caliber limit is for rifle and pistol ammunition. The limit for shotgun ammunition is 8 gauge.

sanglant
September 5, 2008, 11:19 PM
I have found ways around flying since 9/11 as I have witnessed the stupidity that reigns at TSA. I knew in my heart if push came to shove, I might stick a ball point pen in someone's eye to prove a point. Then they'd have to ban ballpoints and we'd be back to those sloppy fountain pen things.:D

there (http://www.stutler.cc/pens/trident/index.html) just as bad hehe :D


P.S.

Fountain pens are better :p

cliffy
September 5, 2008, 11:42 PM
I have a .243 Winchester for target-shooting, while my .725 Tyrannasaurous sits idley by, in wait. Talk about blowing away the .50 BMG! I spent years perfecting my 2500 yard .725 with 1200 grain fare. All I need is someone esle's shoulder to fire it. 14,275 ft/lbs of muzzle energy requires more than a mere human to fondle it. Lately, I've found I cannot even lift the cartridges, let alone cock the bolt. Maybe I'll sell it and stick with my .243 do-it-all rifle. Getting old is heck. cliffy

OOOXOOO
September 6, 2008, 01:03 AM
The TSA is the epitome of Security Theater.

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