Nearly 125 Shot Dead In Chicago Over Summer - About Double The Death Toll In Iraq


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joffe
September 4, 2008, 07:30 PM
Nearly 125 Shot Dead In Chicago Over Summer
Total Is About Double The Death Toll In Iraq
CHICAGO (CBS) ― An estimated 123 people were shot and killed over the summer. That's nearly double the number of soldiers killed in Iraq over the same time period.

In May, cbs2chicago.com began tracking city shootings and posting them on Google maps. Information compiled from our reporters, wire service reports and the Chicago Police Major Incidents log indicated that 123 people were shot and killed throughout the city between the start of Memorial Day weekend on May 26, and the end of Labor Day on Sept. 1.

According to the Defense Department, 65 soldiers were killed in combat in Iraq. About the same number were killed in Afghanistan over that same period.

In the same time period, an estimated 245 people were shot and wounded in the city.
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/chicago.summer.shootings.2.810166.html

I see the thoughtful gun ban is truly yielding some noticeable results.

Perhaps not the results the gun grabbers expected, but oh well. At least people like us, with functioning heads, can see where this is going.

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elrod
September 4, 2008, 07:33 PM
One big difference.....Everyone in Iraq and Afghanistan has a gun!

Griz44
September 4, 2008, 07:37 PM
As always, the libs do not understand that an unarmed law abiding citizen is labeled as "prey" by those who do not obey the ban laws.

BLC
September 4, 2008, 07:42 PM
Dang, and I though gun control worked...:rolleyes:

FLORIDA KEVIN
September 4, 2008, 08:11 PM
I dont see how all those people could have been shot !!?? Aren't guns illegal in chicago ?

21H40
September 4, 2008, 08:29 PM
I though that Jesse and Mayor D got rid of all the guns in Chicago last year!
So how does their spin make this work?? There are almost no legally owned guns in Chicago, but people keep getting shot...
"Don't let your facts get in the way of my opinions!" :banghead::banghead:

At least here in Birmingham, I can defend myself. I feel for the good people that have to live up there.

Raccoon
September 4, 2008, 08:35 PM
Notice how the push-pins are confined strictly within the inner city of Chicago. If you live outside of the city's gun ban, you are safe. :)

threefeathers
September 4, 2008, 08:42 PM
I just can't believe it. If we pour money into the welfare system will it help? :-)

doc2rn
September 4, 2008, 08:48 PM
As we get farther into a depression watch it get worse.

GFZs dont work!

Thernlund
September 4, 2008, 08:52 PM
One big difference.....Everyone in Iraq and Afghanistan has a gun!

Thread winner right there.


-T.

cambeul41
September 4, 2008, 08:52 PM
Everyone in Chicago, legally able to, should train and qualify for a CCW . . . .

Oh, wait a minute while I think this through.

JoeSlomo
September 4, 2008, 08:58 PM
That's awful!

They should BAN...er...they should....


Nevermind.

peyton
September 4, 2008, 09:05 PM
Nope, as a contractor I can not carry a gun in Iraq, but I can carry a knife to a gunfight!! I do feel safer here than Chicago!! Oh I am always surround by eager young men and women that want to fight!!

gbran
September 4, 2008, 09:16 PM
The only way politicians can keep guns out of the hands of criminals is to forbid law abiding citizens from owning them.

Duke Junior
September 4, 2008, 09:16 PM
Mayor Daley's handgun free Paradise(founded 1982).
And the most startling thing of all ,Daley gets re-elected every time with landslide numbers.
And a possible future President learned all his political skills at this regime's knee.
That is what is really frightening.
Even more frightening than a Handful of Dust.

http://www.bartleby.com/201/1.html

Standing Wolf
September 4, 2008, 09:18 PM
Sounds like a quagmire to me. Time for the United States to withdraw from Chicago.

U.S.SFC_RET
September 4, 2008, 09:20 PM
Just remember people get sold on politics. Facts do not matter, selling does.

PhilA
September 4, 2008, 10:07 PM
- Twenty percent of U.S. homicides occur in four cities with just 6% of the population—New York, Chicago, Detroit and Washington, D.C.—and each has (or, in the case of Detroit, had until 2001) a virtual prohibition on private handguns.

Anti-gunners are all about emotion. Never about facts. You can bludgeon them with facts all day long, and you'll never persuade them.

Still, what I'd love to ask Obama, or any other gun grabber, is this:

"Mr. Obama, you'd prohibit law-abiding citizens from carrying defensive firearms if you could. Tell me, then, will you guarantee that no armed violent criminal will ever attack me or my family? No rhetoric, now. No politically-calculated evasive answers. Yes or no? Will you GUARANTEE that no armed violent criminal will ever attack me or my family?"

I'd love to see him try to answer that one without sidestepping the issue and turning it into a half-hearted swing-and-a-miss about hunting traditions.

JKimball
September 4, 2008, 10:58 PM
That map was pretty sobering. It makes Chicago look like a war zone. Looking over the specifics of the shootings, you realize that people that live in that area must be hearing gunshots routinely. The news must be reporting homicides practically every day, and often multiple homicides/shootings in a day. I also noticed that they weren't showing markers for the people that were shot by cops, and some of the markers count for more than one person that was shot.

I do not understand how the people of Chicago can willingly submit to being disarmed and left totally defenseless in those conditions.

LKB3rd
September 4, 2008, 11:12 PM
As always, the libs do not understand that an unarmed law abiding citizen is labeled as "prey" by those who do not obey the ban laws.
There are a lot of them who do know this, but they don't care, because their intention isn't to make people safer, it is to make them more dependent on the government. This includes a lot of "conservatives" too. They are all for guns, as long as they are the only ones allowed to have them.

CombatArmsUSAF
September 4, 2008, 11:24 PM
I'll say it again!!!

"But, Guns are banned in Chicago aren't they? How can this happen?"

Titan6
September 4, 2008, 11:25 PM
In all fairness though the war in Iraq is nearly won. Combat losses are at their lowest point in four years and are not likely to rise again. There are also only about 200,000 American military and civilian members as opposed to the Chicago population of what 3.5 million+? Of course there is a war going on...

MrMex
September 4, 2008, 11:30 PM
- Twenty percent of U.S. homicides occur in four cities with just 6% of the population—New York, Chicago, Detroit and Washington, D.C.—and each has (or, in the case of Detroit, had until 2001) a virtual prohibition on private handguns.

I like this quote, where did you get it?

Kind of Blued
September 5, 2008, 02:50 AM
That map was pretty sobering. It makes Chicago look like a war zone. Looking over the specifics of the shootings, you realize that people that live in that area must be hearing gunshots routinely. The news must be reporting homicides practically every day, and often multiple homicides/shootings in a day. I also noticed that they weren't showing markers for the people that were shot by cops, and some of the markers count for more than one person that was shot.

I do not understand how the people of Chicago can willingly submit to being disarmed and left totally defenseless in those conditions.

Well, first of all, the first thing he would say is, "Well, first of all..." :rolleyes:

I live in Denver, and if the "Democratic ordeal that ruined last week for me" hadn't been a big showboating extravaganza, I would have liked to ask Mr. Obama this:

"Sir, I have never been convicted of a crime, save for a single traffic violation, in my life. I have a Concealed Weapons Permit to protect myself and my family from criminals. I wasn't allowed to carry in here today, and if you are elected, I will never be able to protect myself or my family. How can you refuse me this human right as the Denver Police, the Secret Service, and others watch over you right now, radios on, guns loaded? Why is your life worth more than mine, my mothers, or my baby daughters?"

It would have to be much shorter than that, but it might have been fun to see 'im squirm.

chris in va
September 5, 2008, 02:53 AM
Who's doing all the shooting? And to whom?

JKimball
September 5, 2008, 03:27 AM
Who's doing all the shooting? And to whom?

Click the link in the original post. It pulls up a Google map with a bunch of markers on it. In the window on the left has some details about each marker.

Much of it appears to be gang related, and much of it appears to be somewhat random. Lots of the victims are teenagers and most that I remember were in their thirties or younger.

LaEscopeta
September 5, 2008, 09:29 AM
There are also only about 200,000 American military and civilian members as opposed to the Chicago population of what 3.5 million+?+1.

I also bet more Americian were shot and killed in both of the gun freindly states of Texas and Florida than Amereican service personal killed in Iraq. And this fact is just a meaningless as the one stated in the origianl news story. (At least this news story apparently got the raw number correct, even if they presented them in a meaningless way.)

W1EAT
September 5, 2008, 09:55 AM
According to this morning's Burlington Free Press, there were 8 homicides in the State of Vermont last year, down from 12 in 2006. Maybe Chicago just needs more cows.

subierex
September 5, 2008, 10:03 AM
I wonder how many were just "random acts of violence" vs. gang/drug turf wars. Not that it matters, I guess.

Deanimator
September 5, 2008, 10:20 AM
Dang, and I though gun control worked
It DOES "work". You just need to be specific as to how you define that word.

It "worked" in the Jewish ghettoes of 1940s Europe... until some people in Warsaw started bucking the "system".

Desertdog
September 5, 2008, 10:52 AM
Vermont crime stats

According to this morning's Burlington Free Press, there were 8 homicides in the State of Vermont last year, down from 12 in 2006. Maybe Chicago just needs more cows.
I wonder if that is because anybody in Vermont may be armed, no permit needed. Alaska seems to be doing pretty good on the low number of firearm deaths, even though you don't need a permit there either.

BTR
September 5, 2008, 11:10 AM
The comparision is not an accurate one at all.

Chicago has over 2.8 million people, and they suffered ~124 deaths.

There are about 200 thousand soldiers in Iraq and they suffered ~65 deaths.

The death RATE is much higher for soldiers in Iraq than people in Chicago.

The statistic also ignores the number of civilian, police and Iraqi military deaths in iraq, which I suspect is astronomically higher than the deaths of US soldiers.

W1EAT
September 5, 2008, 11:10 AM
Vermont is a peaceful, rural place with low crime in general, and the lack of "gun control" certainly doesn't hurt. Up until a few years ago it was not illegal to sip on a cold one while you were driving, as long as you didn't go over the blood/alcohol limit. Sadly, that has been changed, making many of the state's residents into gun-owning criminals.

Tully M. Pick
September 5, 2008, 12:57 PM
Sounds like a quagmire to me. Time for the United States to withdraw from Chicago.

It's only funny because it's true!

benEzra
September 5, 2008, 01:07 PM
Who's doing all the shooting? And to whom?
89 percent of shooters and 72 percent of victims had prior arrest records.

http://egov.cityofchicago.org/webportal/COCWebPortal/COC_EDITORIAL/June08CrimeStats.pdf

Here's a staggering fact from the above PDF:

"Since January, police have responded to 31,005 calls for shots fired, 17,481 calls for person with a gun, and 16,427 calls for gang disturbances."

Looks like Chicago's gun laws only keep guns out of the safes of the law-abiding, not criminals. No surprise...

Randy in Arizona
September 5, 2008, 01:08 PM
The Iraqi death toll also does not include Al-Qaida or Iraqi deaths.

Population: The population of Iraq (1997 estimate) is 22,219,289. The estimated overall population density is 51 persons per sq km (131 per sq mi). The density varies markedly, with the largest concentrations in the area of the river systems. The population is 75 percent urban.
Link to data (http://www.arab.de/arabinfo/iraq.htm)

Now if we figure the most fighting and deaths occur in the cities then 75% of 20 million is 15 million.
Figuring a 10 to 1 kill ratio (rather generous) then 65 x 10 = 650 + 65 = 715.

715 per 15 million = 1 per 21,000 Iraq

124 per 2,800,00 = 1 per 22,580 Chicago

Still looks lower in Iraq that in the windy city.

BTW - there are four levels of liars:
Liars, Damn Liars, Statisticians, and Politicians!:cuss::cuss::cuss:


388

elChupacabra!
September 5, 2008, 01:17 PM
Not to nitpick, but 1 in 21,000 is slightly higher than 1 in 22,580.

Still, if there are about as many Chicagoans killed by thugs as there are Iraqi militants by US troops... still unbelievable ;)

leadcounsel
September 5, 2008, 05:01 PM
Why don't they just make crime illegal?

Double Naught Spy
September 5, 2008, 05:39 PM
The comparision is not an accurate one at all.

Chicago has over 2.8 million people, and they suffered ~124 deaths.

There are about 200 thousand soldiers in Iraq and they suffered ~65 deaths.

The death RATE is much higher for soldiers in Iraq than people in Chicago.

The statistic also ignores the number of civilian, police and Iraqi military deaths in iraq, which I suspect is astronomically higher than the deaths of US soldiers.

VERY GOOD BTR!! Add to that the fact that soldiers in Iraq wear body armor and can retaliate with any variety of ordinances from ground or air, are allowed to chase down attackers, are not wholly accountable for bystanders, and also consider the fact that they are fighting insurgents whose deaths are not tabulated. The Chicagoan incidents get double tallies because participants on both sides of the fight, if killed or wounded, are tallied.

jakemccoy
September 5, 2008, 05:43 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=390574

sanglant
September 6, 2008, 12:03 AM
According to this morning's Burlington Free Press, there were 8 homicides in the State of Vermont last year, down from 12 in 2006. Maybe Chicago just needs more cows.

Chicago, Cow (http://www.thechicagofire.com/oleary.php), hmm i do believe your onto something :evil:

fireflyfather
September 6, 2008, 12:18 AM
Um, those are only US deaths in Iraq. If you included all the Iraqi deaths, it wouldn't even be CLOSE. Please, people, some common sense. Otherwise we are just massaging the statistics like the gun grabbers.

scrat
September 6, 2008, 12:20 AM
keep looking at this. just dont know how to respond. Its sad.

Johnnybgood
September 6, 2008, 02:28 AM
It is owned moderated by a Chicago cop. Lots of insight into what is going on.

http://secondcitycop.blogspot.com/

Sir Aardvark
September 6, 2008, 02:53 AM
The one clear solution...

Midnight Basketball!

Silver Bullet
September 6, 2008, 04:10 AM
Sounds like a quagmire to me. Time for the United States to withdraw from Chicago.

Well said, as always, SW.

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