New Izhmash AK from Saiga/Arsenal


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OnPointFirearms
September 5, 2008, 12:56 PM
Here's an exciting new product that I thought you guys would like to know about...

We will have access to an exclusive new shipment of these Arsenal Saiga SGL10-01 Rifles-- built by the custom shop of the legendary Izhmash Factory in Russia! Sales start next week while supplies last for about $650. If you want to be notified when these are available, shoot me an e-mail: evan@onpointfirearms.com (mailto:evan@onpointfirearms.com)

-- Evan

[ Download and Read the NEW Saiga SGL10-01 Fact Sheet Here ] (http://www.onpointfirearms.com/saiga/Saiga_Fact_Sheet.pdf)

High Resolution Images:
http://www.onpointfirearms.com/saiga/Saiga_Arsenal_1.jpg
http://www.onpointfirearms.com/saiga/Saiga_Arsenal_2.jpg

http://www.onpointfirearms.com/saiga/image003.gif
http://www.onpointfirearms.com/saiga/image004.gif

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Number 6
September 5, 2008, 01:02 PM
More info and pics.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=110600

Hoppy590
September 5, 2008, 01:21 PM
haha NICE. already set up for AK103 conversions. regular hand guards, threaded muzzle with break.

now we just need it in 5,45

Girodin
September 5, 2008, 01:22 PM
I have a dimpled saiga with the extra Y so to me there is limited appeal for one of these. They certainly will make it much easier for many people to make a more true clone though.

From their site:
The receiver has the proper markings on both sides without any
extra commercial markings.

I guess stamping them "arsenal las vegas" is not considered an extra commerical marking. If not what is it?

If they are putting these together in the US with 922r compliance then why in the world does it not have a pistol grip. Most people that care enough about the features these offer to buy will not want to keep that buttstock. With a PG and traditional stock in place these would be a more attractive buy IMO.

It is compliant already so why is it not modified to take real AK mags?

Psywarrior13
September 5, 2008, 01:38 PM
And the wish list gets longer....

Why do I all of a sudden want 2 of these?? :o

Hoppy590
September 5, 2008, 02:30 PM
I guess stamping them "arsenal las vegas" is not considered an extra commerical marking. If not what is it?

um, the import mark... rather a big deal to the BATFE and FEDERAL LAW

If they are putting these together in the US with 922r compliance then why in the world does it not have a pistol grip. Most people that care enough about the features these offer to buy will not want to keep that buttstock. With a PG and traditional stock in place these would be a more attractive buy IMO.

Klinton signed an arms sales restriction agreement with russia, only allowing "sporting guns" to be sold here. by keeping the hunting stock, it can be imported. had Klinton not disrespected the American people, wed have 300$ Russian AK's all day long

It is compliant already so why is it not modified to take real AK mags?

pretty much, see above, also it helps keep it more "low capacity" for us still in restricted states.

i would like to say less complaining, more rejoicing. but that price is not something i like.

nalioth
September 5, 2008, 02:47 PM
Bottom line:

What will it cost?

rellascout
September 5, 2008, 02:50 PM
I can get as many as I want for about $680

sundance43.5
September 5, 2008, 02:53 PM
Sooo...Riveted bullet guide, or not?

MAKster
September 5, 2008, 03:15 PM
So for $650 all you get is a Saiga with an AK forearm, U.S. FCG, and muzzle brake. Why pay an extra $350 for Arsenal to make these mods when you still have to add the most important parts - the pistol grip, proper butt stock, and bullet guide.

Rubber_Duck
September 5, 2008, 03:36 PM
Finally a Saiga that will look like an AK is supposed to look!! Well, after conversion that is. Not that there is anything wrong with the normal Saiga handguards, but they just look goofy to me.


**Forms a line for the 5.45mm version....**

Z-Michigan
September 5, 2008, 03:36 PM
Very cool. Not a cheap plinker, but I can definitely see the appeal for people who want one of the closest to authentic AK's at a fairly reasonable price (relatively speaking).

So, how many will get in before con-gress starts working against EBR's?

MAX100
September 5, 2008, 03:46 PM
Over Priced. Get a Bulgaria SSR-85C same price and No conversions needed.


GC

Z-Michigan
September 5, 2008, 04:34 PM
After reading the PDF brochure and thinking some:

1) How does this affect Russian American Armory and the standard Saiga imports? Will RAA continue to get its normal Saigas, or does this signal a new US distributor?

2) Why can't Arsenal sell them fully converted? It seems silly to sell a $650 Saiga that still requires conversion from that point.

aka108
September 5, 2008, 04:45 PM
Doesn't excite me. Looks like a little doctoring to the current Saiga, adding Arsenal and 370 dollars to the cost. No thanks. Rather have a CZ bolt gun in the same caliber for that kind of money.

nalioth
September 5, 2008, 04:50 PM
1) How does this affect Russian American Armory and the standard Saiga imports? Will RAA continue to get its normal Saigas, or does this signal a new US distributor? The scuttlebutt is that Arsenal cut this import deal direct with Legion (the Izhmash subsidiary).

RAAC imports theoretically should not be affected by this.

Timradcliffe345
September 5, 2008, 06:03 PM
Bottom line:

What will it cost?

That's exactly my question.

IMHO it would be foolish to pay hundreds more for a partially converted Saiga just to get the Arsenal stamp on there...

Instead of speculating further I will await the official arrival (w/ price info.).

Daemon688
September 5, 2008, 10:52 PM
So if Arsenal can't even get the sights straight, why should I trust them converting saigas? Even if it is only handguards......

Girodin
September 6, 2008, 02:23 AM
um, the import mark... rather a big deal to the BATFE and FEDERAL LAW

I didn't say it wasn't needed I am simply questioning their definition of extra commercial markings. I believe that is exactly what an importer marking is. I.E. something extra for the comercial market.

Bottom line:

What will it cost?


Quote:
If they are putting these together in the US with 922r compliance then why in the world does it not have a pistol grip. Most people that care enough about the features these offer to buy will not want to keep that buttstock. With a PG and traditional stock in place these would be a more attractive buy IMO.

Klinton signed an arms sales restriction agreement with russia, only allowing "sporting guns" to be sold here. by keeping the hunting stock, it can be imported. had Klinton not disrespected the American people, wed have 300$ Russian AK's all day long


Quote:
It is compliant already so why is it not modified to take real AK mags?

pretty much, see above, also it helps keep it more "low capacity" for us still in restricted states.

i would like to say less complaining, more rejoicing. but that price is not something i like.


Ummm did you read the linked fact sheet. I am well aware of why they are imported in the format they are and of 922R requirements. I have bought 10 saigas. I just finished a conversion and will be starting another very shortly.

The brochure states they are remanufactured in the US and thus import restrictions have no bearing on the work arsenal does on them in this "remanufacturing" process. They have 3 domestic parts in the FCG and a domestic foregrip. That is a 922R compliant gun AK mags are not illegal in it. Putting a PG is not a problem. There is no reason for arsenal not the factory in russia, to make them capable of taking a standard mag or put a pg on them.

Do you care to explain the threaded barrel and muzzle device with your explination? Those are not part of the standard import configuration

Finally a Saiga that will look like an AK is supposed to look!! Well, after conversion that is. Not that there is anything wrong with the normal Saiga handguards, but they just look goofy to me.


**Forms a line for the 5.45mm version....**

I guess you are unaware that with a handguard retainer that has been available for some time, one can put a foregrip like that on a saiga. There are plenty of them out there. If they had 5.54s I would likely be in line wit you. I really want a 5.54 saiga and one in 7.62x54r. If they ever offer those my saiga collection is likely to grow.

Rubber_Duck
September 6, 2008, 09:39 AM
I guess you are unaware that with a handguard retainer that has been available for some time, one can put a foregrip like that on a saiga. There are plenty of them out there.

I was indeed unaware of that fact. All the pics I've seen of converted Saigas have been with the ugly factory handguard (I'm not bashing them, just not my preference), never seen one with standard AK handguards (it wouldn't surprise me to see one though).

railroader
September 6, 2008, 10:43 AM
Saiga hand guards from Tapco. http://www.tapco.com/proddesc.aspx?id=7c41ca6a-655f-4d88-a0eb-3afa781040f8 Here's hand guard retainers, http://www.dinzagarms.com/saiga_762x39/akbor1.html. Mark

nalioth
September 6, 2008, 01:05 PM
I was indeed unaware of that fact. All the pics I've seen of converted Saigas have been with the ugly factory handguard (I'm not bashing them, just not my preference), never seen one with standard AK handguards (it wouldn't surprise me to see one though). You obviously haven't been to the Saiga 12 forum (http://forum.saiga-12.com).

They have long threads for "Show your converted Saigas" for each make and model. . .

Some of the conversions are absolutely gorgeous.

Hoppy590
September 6, 2008, 01:11 PM
I believe that is exactly what an importer marking is. I.E. something extra for the comercial market.

well its a necessary evil in this case.

as for the rest, i was just referring to why we still have hunting style Saiga's post ban. not so much why this individual rifle is still in sporter style

nwilliams
September 6, 2008, 01:31 PM
I was indeed unaware of that fact. All the pics I've seen of converted Saigas have been with the ugly factory handguard (I'm not bashing them, just not my preference), never seen one with standard AK handguards (it wouldn't surprise me to see one though).

Yup they exist, I paid about $340 for mine, here she is.....
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/nwilliams27/Saiga5.jpg

jws527
September 6, 2008, 01:34 PM
I was indeed unaware of that fact. All the pics I've seen of converted Saigas have been with the ugly factory handguard (I'm not bashing them, just not my preference), never seen one with standard AK handguards (it wouldn't surprise me to see one though).I was wondering why I'd never seen a converted Saiga with a standard AK handguard as well, but as it turns out most people simply don't do it (at least right off the bat) because it's expensive and the cost is difficult to justify. It costs as much (or more) as the entire pistol grip/high-cap mag conversion.

To approximate the AK-103 front end, you need to buy a new gas tube ($30), a lower handguard retainer ($30-70 depending upon how much work you want to do - the bolt-on is easy but the press on is labor intensive), new handguards ($50), and a muzzle brake ($30). You also need to thread the muzzle, which either requires you to rent a special tool or do some creative machine work.

MAKster
September 6, 2008, 01:47 PM
I suspect that Arsenal isn't selling full blown conversions because they would end up selling for $850-900 which is too expensive for almost all potential buyers.

benEzra
September 6, 2008, 02:59 PM
The brochure states they are remanufactured in the US and thus import restrictions have no bearing on the work arsenal does on them in this "remanufacturing" process. They have 3 domestic parts in the FCG and a domestic foregrip. That is a 922R compliant gun AK mags are not illegal in it. Putting a PG is not a problem. There is no reason for arsenal not the factory in russia, to make them capable of taking a standard mag or put a pg on them.
You are correct that 18 USC 922(r) restrictions have no bearing on them. However, trade agreements outside of 922(r) can and probably do require Izhmash to set conditions on how they must be initially sold. If I had to guess, I'd say that is what is going on, i.e. a condition imposed by a standing trade agreement rather than Federal regulations.

Girodin
September 7, 2008, 12:23 AM
However, trade agreements outside of 922(r) can and probably do require Izhmash to set conditions on how they must be initially sold.

Could be, I'd be interested to know the reason.

MD_Willington
September 8, 2008, 07:56 PM
get this

http://www.dinzagarms.com/saiga_762x39/akbor1.html

then stick regular furniture on it

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