Failure to return to battery with handloads


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H1500308
September 6, 2008, 09:40 PM
Took the Colt Gold Cup to the range today with my handloads (mentioned in a previous post) and had a problem with the slide failing to return completely to battery after a round was fired. I could reach up with my thumb and lock the slide forward the last 1/8-1/4 inch with moderate pressure.

Loads are as follows

185g HDY FMJ SWC
9.0 AA#5
COL 1.60

The first dummy rounds that were made were seated deeper per the hornady book but I had a problem with the round not wanting to feed and chamber properly. It would ride the feed ramp and enter the chamber but then would get stuck at about a 45 deg angle trying to enter the chamber. I had better success with a longer COL, hence the 1.60 COL.

Any suggestions.

Also, I think the 9.0 AA#5 is too hot for target loads even though it's listed just above start in the Hornady book. I love this handgun and I want to find something that works well.

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janobles14
September 6, 2008, 09:55 PM
have you taken out the barrel and tried to free drop a round? you might be able to locate the problem area. otherwise i would look at case length as well as playing with your overall length.

ranger335v
September 6, 2008, 10:30 PM
" I think the 9.0 AA#5 is too hot for target loads "

During chambering, your pistol doesn't know how hot the round is.

Either you are not fully sizing the cases OR your bullets and crimp are too large to chamber easily. Sounds like a job for a Lee Factroy Crimp Die to me.

eerw
September 6, 2008, 10:43 PM
check your crimp and OAL of the cartridge..

pull the barrel and drop check a few rounds to check

lee n. field
September 6, 2008, 10:47 PM
would get stuck at about a 45 deg angle trying to enter the chamber.

Don't seat quite so deep.

I've had problems like this, with .40 and .45 ACP. It would happen when the bullet (180GR lead TC in .40, 200GR lead SWC in .45) is seated low enough that the case mouth is actually (I speculate) scraping the top of the chamber when it's being fed into the chamber. In my case the feeding problems went away when I started seating bullets high enough that (I speculate) part of the bullet (instead of cartridge rim) was hitting the top of the chamber.

I had better success with a longer COL, hence the 1.60 COL.

Which, if I'm right, is to be expected.

The Bushmaster
September 6, 2008, 11:13 PM
Guys...I'm sittin' here lookin' at my loading manual (Lyman 48th) and a .45 ACP SWC Jacketed 185 grain bullet is seated to 1.135. Doesn't that make 1.600 a bit long? And wouldn't that cause a bullet to be touching the leads? Not to mention cause a powder burn problem too? Just askin'...

H1500308
September 6, 2008, 11:33 PM
Pardon me, I meant 1.16, not 1.60...

rg1
September 7, 2008, 12:00 AM
My Hornady Fifth Edition has a 185gr. SWC jacketed bullet #4513 that looks like the #45137 bullet in the 7th Edition. Seating overall length for the 185 SWC in the 5th edition says 1.230" while as you know the 7th is 1.135". I'd think you could seat even longer than your 1.160" but you'd have to check your chamber in your barrel by removing the barrel to see if the round will drop into the chamber with proper headspace.
Accurate Arms Manual no. One says 8.6-9.5 grains of AA#5 with the Hornady 185gr TGT bullet again seated to 1.135" using RP cases and RP 2 1/2 primers in a 1911 pistol.

chipperi
September 7, 2008, 12:17 AM
I had something similar happen to me with some 45acp. Look at the bullet jacket right near the case mouth. The crimp may be starting before the bullet is completely seated causing the jacket to wrinkle a little. If this is the case, just crimp as a separate step.

prickett
September 7, 2008, 01:14 AM
Are you using a Lee Factory Crimp die?

I had similar problems getting .45's to chamber. Between using a FCD and seating the bullet deeper, that sorted out the problem. I tend to seat them too long, resulting in them contacting the lands, which prevents them closing.

Try this to see if its a seating depth problem... next time one doesn't chamber, use your thumb to push the slide into battery. Then, without firing, see if you can manually eject the shell. If its very difficult, that means that most likely the bullet is stuck in the barrel due to excessive seating depth.

243winxb
September 7, 2008, 09:22 AM
This model has a very short leade into the rifling. If you seat your bullet to long the round will not fully chamber. As for a load in this target gun, a 200gr speer lswc, or the Lyman 200 gr cast bevel base, pushed by 3.8gr of bullseye is an accurate load. would get stuck at about a 45 deg angle trying to enter the chamber. This can be cause by a magazine that is not correct or the OAL is too long or the recoil spring is weak. Is the gun dry, a little oil on the slide rail might help also. http://www.stevespages.com/page8d.htm Click the 45acp link on this page. With a micrometer check a loaded round, does the mouth measure around .470" to .473" ? How about the rest of the loaded round? Taper crimp only.

243winxb
September 7, 2008, 09:28 AM
During chambering, your pistol doesn't know how hot the round is.
This Colt has a light spring in it from the factory. A hot load or slow burning rate powder can effect the cycling rate of the slide and cause problems.

Baldy
September 7, 2008, 10:45 AM
What am I missing here? Your saying that your COL is 1.160" for a .45acp? I don't know where you got that number but that's about .10 to short for any 1911 pistol I got. Mine are all between 1.240" to 1.270".

243winxb
September 7, 2008, 11:05 AM
likes the measurement from the head to the shoulder of the swc to be .947" The reason to measure from these 2 points is that the alloy of the cast bullet changes the length of the bullet from base to tip of the bullet. As i seat the bullet into the rifling to eliminate end play, this measurement must remain constant. A change as little as .005" longer will keep the slide from fully closing. This is how i load to get accuracy at 50 yds. for bullseye competitions. http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/45acp.jpg

Fatelvis
September 7, 2008, 12:14 PM
Make sure your chamber is scrubbed clean. Any buildup of residue will affect headspacing, and cause your problem.

Owen
September 7, 2008, 12:22 PM
first thing i'd check is the crimp. you want the mouth of the case to be very near .472, IIRC

ranger335v
September 7, 2008, 02:29 PM
"This Colt has a light spring in it from the factory. A hot load or slow burning rate powder can effect the cycling rate of the slide and cause problems."

Certainly. But the problems would occur during extraction and ejection, not return and feeding.

The Bushmaster
September 7, 2008, 02:31 PM
Yer right Baldy... Except he's loading 185 grain JHP's and they are (in my manual) 1.175" COL for 185 grain JHP...

And Ranger335V...My Colt Series 80 came with a 16 pound recoil spring. Not light and not heavy...

35 Whelen
September 7, 2008, 05:05 PM
First, regarding O.A.L.'s with 45ACP and SWC's, every SWC is slightly different than the next. I have owned and loaded for a Colt Series 70 for almost 27 years. My rule of thumb for seating SWC's is to leave about 1/16" of the bearing surface of the bullet exposed out of the case mouth. If it's HP's you're loading, use the O.A.L. for that brand of bullet. Same for TC's and RN's.
Second, you better NOT be crimping 45 ACP loads for automatics with anything BUT a taper crimping die. The cases headspace on the mouth.
Third, my Series 70 wouldn't feed despite my having polished & shaped the feed ramp. I tried different magazines to no avail. Finally, a gentleman said simply "Change the recoil spring.":what: I did, and now it will feed, out of any clip I own, everything from empty cases to 255 gr. Keith style SWC's.
Hope this helps.
35W

nksmfamjp
September 7, 2008, 05:41 PM
IMO, you should re think/try your OAL. OAL in the 1911 should normally be longer like 1.27 - 1.25. Short OAL's change your feed timing. With wadcutter lips on a mag, if your round is short, it is not far enough into the chamber when the mag let's go. This may be causing a 3 point jam, which is what I think you are describing. You may also have too much extractor pressure.

At the point in the cycle you are talking about, the round is riding on the edge of the barrel, trying to finish sliding under the extractor. The third point is the bullet hitting the top of the chamber.

So, it is either having trouble sliding under the extractor, catching on the edge of the barrel, or the OAL isn't long enough for the bullet to hit the chamber and push the round down. Also, the recoil spring could not be forcing it home fast enough.

243winxb
September 7, 2008, 05:56 PM
Some times the rim of the brass will be to large in diameter to slide up the bolt face as the round is striped from the magazine. This can happen when the brass is fired many times with heavy loads in a S&W 645 type gun. Then the brass is loaded and fired in a Colt Gold Cup with tighter dimensions on the bolt/slide face. As all the brass didn't expand the rim at the same rate, some would cycle , some not.

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