Resistance was futile, I have been inGlocktrinated...


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MacTech
September 6, 2008, 10:00 PM
I've been fighting a losing battle ever since I shot one of my fellow R&G clubber's .45ACP, I LOVE that big bore cartridge, I've been reading as many threads as possible on the myriad options for the .45, and was getting overwhelmed

As I have stated before, my requirements for any firearm is functionality, reliability, and accuracy, these three concepts are absolutely non-negotiable, ergonomics are also important, something comfortable, grippable and pointable, appearance is irrelavent and in fact useless cosmetic affectations are a turn-off, gold trim, fancy wood grips, Depleted Unobtanium doodads and the like serve less than no purpose

over at my local gunshop, I've had my eye on a Glock 21 for as long as I've had my Taurus PT-99AF, in fact, I was trying to decide between the Glock 21 and the Taurus 99 the night I decided on the Taurus, mainly because of the cheaper ammo and I wasn't sure if I'd enjoy shooting a semiauto, being a revolver guy at heart, since the Taurus was less expensive, it was a lesser risk

anyway, every time I went back to the gunshop, I'd always look at that Glock 21, try it a couple times, it fit well, pointed well and was comfortable in hand, Glock had an established reliability record, and a reputation for unmatched durability (I read the Glock Torture Test (http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90&Item) thread on the theprepared dot com site a couple times with my jaw on the floor, both at the horrible abuse the gun was enduring, and most at the gun's absolute refusal to fail.....

I would never treat any of my firearms like that, they're tools, and tools work better if they're cared for, but it's nice to know that the Glock *CAN* withstand that kind of abuse

Also, last weekend, when I was policing up my fired 9mm brass before closing up the pistol range (I was the last one out), I found a live .45ACP round lying in the dirt, all new and shiny, probably rolled off the bench while someone was shooting, so I took it home with me, since I've always wanted a .45, I took it as a kind of "omen" that a .45 was in my near future

that .45 round has been sitting on my keyboard for the past week, taunting me, begging me to get a gun for it.....

So, anyway, this afternoon, I could not withstand the temptation anymore (no, not from that inanimate chunk of brass, gunpowder and jacketed bullet), I caved in and bought that used Glock 21 I've had my eye on since I got back into this hobby, so far I'm liking it, I have yet to shoot it, tomorrow afternoon perhaps (my R&G club is running a seminar for women who are new to shooting tomorrow, it's sold out and the range is closed to members until around 1 PM or so)

I'm still not completely comfortable with the manual safety-less "safe action" trigger system, but then again, revolvers are also lacking in manual safeties, and have a similar point-and-click interface, and I learned handgunnery on a revolver, so I really *shouldn't* be too bothered by the Glock Safe Action system, I just need time to adjust, to put some trigger time on it

that said, the only thing I *really* don't like about .45 is the cost of the ammo, anything more than Federal American Eagle red box or Winchester White Box is just brutally expensive, the AmEagle stuff is only about a buck more a box than it's 9mm counterpart, so it's not too too bad, it's just the good stuff that gives me sticker-shock

I'll still shoot 9mm, after all, I have almost 1000 rounds stockpiled for it, and it is cheaper per-round to shoot than .45, but you really can't argue with the good ol' .45 ACP cartridge either

so, the simple (but expensive) solution to the caliber wars of .45 and 9mm is.....

have *BOTH*, they're both great calibers

the 21 I got is in pretty decent shape, there is some minor slide wear (pinhead size marks on the right edge of the slide) and a little gunpowder residue on the front of the polymer frame near the muzzle, but overall, the gun's in great shape for a 96% condition gun, it also came with the old style "tupperware" case (a little cheesy if you ask me) , a speed loader thingy and a spare magazine (both 13 rounders)

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Kino74
September 6, 2008, 10:10 PM
Welcome to the Glock club!

The big G21 is nice. I recently got a Lone Wolf threaded barrel for my G21. I have not shot it yet but it does feel better balanced with the threaded barrel. Could be just me though.

Glocks have a ton of accessories so anything you do not like can be replaced easily or relatively easy. I do recommend getting better sights as the stock plastic ones leave much to be desired.

FMJMIKE
September 6, 2008, 10:11 PM
A G-21 is a great pistol........It is the AK of .45 handguns....Congratulations!
:D

Magnus1959
September 6, 2008, 10:31 PM
Congratulations!

joesolo
September 7, 2008, 12:29 AM
Mac, congratulations. Of all the pistols I have owned and alternated between over the years for CCW I keep coming back to my G27. It is the one pistol that regardless of ammo, cleanliness, lube, etc goes BANG every single time without exception. I have other high dollar pistols that I'd love to carry for nothing more than their coolness factor but none beats the G27 for reliability, power, concealability, etc. You did good AFAIK.

MacTech
September 7, 2008, 12:37 AM
Hopefully, now that I have a decent 9mm and a decent .45, I shouldn't *need* any more handguns

...of course, we all know how bloody likely that'll be, right? ;)

...anyway, I'll go on record saying that this Glock 21 will be my *last* handgun

now, upgrades like tritium/fiber optic sights and aftermarket barrels don't count though ;)

thegoodfight
September 7, 2008, 12:59 AM
too long of a post man, no offense.

Chuck Spears
September 7, 2008, 01:03 AM
Springfield XD .45's have a manual safety option. Should have gone with them since you mentioned that as well as ergonomics. XD's have a more natural grip angle. But Glocks are a fine pistol as well. Both designs are reliable and function well. I just prefer the XD's bc they are prettier and have a better feel in the hand.

Kino74
September 7, 2008, 03:30 AM
You know we could always start a pool on when you're going to get another handgun. lol :D

Ghost Walker
September 7, 2008, 06:00 AM
I'm still not completely comfortable with the manual safety-less "safe action" trigger system, but then again, revolvers are also lacking in manual safeties, and have a similar point-and-click interface, and I learned hand gunnery on a revolver, so I really *shouldn't* be too bothered by the Glock Safe Action system, I just need time to adjust, to put some trigger time on it

:eek: Wow! How long did you say that you've owned that Glock? You sound just like a true Glock-O-phile. Nothing could be farther from the truth; but, still, every internet gun expert on GT continues to parrot this same line over and over again. Let me ask: How many revolvers have you shot with a 63% pretensioned hammer? How many revolvers have you shot with, either, a 3.5# or a 5.5# trigger? Have you ever owned a revolver that the sear/trigger mechanism could be, ‘stacked’ on? Don’t you realize that you are NOT comparing apples with apples!

Ain’t nothing wrong with shooting: American Eagle, Blazer, (aluminum or brass) or Winchester, ‘white box’. I do a majority of my pistol practice with Blazer aluminum – Which, by the way, every Glock loves. (The factory told me so!)

Did you say, ‘Tupperware case’? Then you, probably, don’t have a 3rd generation pistol. Be very careful with that old Tupperware case. You must pull the trigger in order to store the pistol inside. This case has caused numerous, 'unloaded Glocks' to suddenly AD.

Did you get an owner’s manual with it, too? (You should have!) Glock will send you one if you phone and ask. If you would like an on-line armorer’s manual PM me; and, I’ll send you the link. In the meantime you can use the following website in order to familiarize yourself with how to disassemble and reassemble your new Glock:

http://glockparts.com/page/ufw0/Home/Disassembly.html

Now, you MIGHT have a problem with that used pistol; and, it needs to be checked out: Remove the magazine and any ammo from the room; rack the slide, at least, twice and clear the pistol. Point the muzzle in a safe direction and pull the trigger. Remove the slide from the frame. Look at the rear of the pistol. You should see a large flat piece of metal with a number written on it.

If that number says, ‘4256-1’ you are good-to-go.

If the number says, ‘4256’ you need to get the trigger bar on that pistol upgraded to the current (-1) model. This is NOT a small thing on many older G-21’s and should not be ignored.

The best chemical to rejuvenate a Glock’s polymer frame is Ballistol (http://www.ballistol.com/). Expensive ammo shouldn’t be a problem. You only need it for your carry ammo, anyway. If you shoot enough the difference in recoil will hardly be noticeable; and, you can forget about point-of-aim/point-of-impact because it doesn’t really apply to combat pistol shooting.

If it were my used Glock Model G-21 I’d immediately install a Wolff Gunsprings non-captured steel guide rod along with a new standard 17# recoil spring. Finally, you may want to consider carrying in C-3 for awhile, or at least until you’ve completed the initial shakedown period of new ownership. It’s up to you; but, personally, I always carry my Glock in C-3 this way. (Please spare me the usual, ‘Glock with a chambered round’ rhetoric – OK! I don’t need to hear it again.)

Springfield XD .45's have a manual safety option. Should have gone with them since you mentioned that as well as ergonomics. XD's have a more natural grip angle. But Glocks are a fine pistol as well. Both designs are reliable and function well. I just prefer the XD's because they are prettier and have a better feel in the hand.

:) Yeah, beauty is important! I’d probably shoot an XD, too, except the bore axis is so high that it give me a nosebleed; and, besides, I don’t really care for plastic slide rails. Oh, one other thing, I can’t shoot an XD worth a damn! I feel like I’m trying to balance something large on top of my gun hand; and, I keep throwing shots off. (Guys that, normally, I can easily outshoot stand behind me and laugh at my targets whenever I’m holding an XD. Maybe if I wore a parachute; what do you think?) ;)

denfoote
September 7, 2008, 06:09 AM
http://usera.ImageCave.com/denfoote/Aliens_borg_assimilation_faces.gif

:evil: :evil: :evil:

Disaster
September 7, 2008, 08:21 AM
I'll still shoot 9mm, after all, I have almost 1000 rounds stockpiled for it, and it is cheaper per-round to shoot than .45, but you really can't argue with the good ol' .45 ACP cartridge either

1000 rounds! That is like two shooting sessions! ;-)

Hopefully, now that I have a decent 9mm and a decent .45, I shouldn't *need* any more handguns

...of course, we all know how bloody likely that'll be, right?

...anyway, I'll go on record saying that this Glock 21 will be my *last* handgun

Absolutely. It will be your "last" handgun, you buy, before your next one. As in, "This gun I just bought is nice but I really like the "last" one I bought."

Chuck Spears
September 7, 2008, 12:05 PM
Yeah, beauty is important! I’d probably shoot an XD, too, except the bore axis is so high that it give me a nosebleed; and, besides, I don’t really care for plastic slide rails. Oh, one other thing, I can’t shoot an XD worth a damn! I feel like I’m trying to balance something large on top of my gun hand; and, I keep throwing shots off. (Guys that, normally, I can easily outshoot stand behind me and laugh at my targets whenever I’m holding an XD. Maybe if I wore a parachute; what do you think?)

I think the only real difference between Glocks and XD's is just personal preference in feel. You can't bash the design on either since they are both well proven. They're both reliable and both function extremely well. But folks from both sides try to nit pick non-issues. For you, a Glock just shoots better. So I can understand going with it. But for most people the grip angle and ergonomics feel better with the XD. The exception being folks whose first gun was a Glock and that's what they learned to shoot on. But people who grew up shooting other designs like the 1911 tend to drift more towards the XD bc of its feel. I can shoot either of them fine so I just go with XD bc it feels better and looks better. But the guidelines are all subjective. I don't have a problem with the plastic rails either. They've stood up to much more torture than I'll ever put a pistol through.

MacTech
September 7, 2008, 12:07 PM
Now, you MIGHT have a problem with that used pistol; and, it needs to be checked out: Remove the magazine and any ammo from the room; rack the slide, at least, twice and clear the pistol. Point the muzzle in a safe direction and pull the trigger. Remove the slide from the frame. Look at the rear of the pistol. You should see a large flat piece of metal with a number written on it.

If that number says, 4256-1 you are good-to-go.

If the number says, 4256 you need to get the trigger bar on that pistol upgraded to the current (-1) model. This is NOT a small thing on many older G-21s and should not be ignored.


My G-21 has the 4256 trigger bar, is this something I can replace myself, or does the pistol need to go to a gunsmith/Glock service for this, and how risky is the gun to use in it's current config, ATM all I'll be doing is punchin' paper with it

is this considered a warranty/recall thing, or is it considered a maintenance part?

If it were my used Glock Model G-21 Id immediately install a Wolff Gunsprings non-captured steel guide rod along with a new standard 17# recoil spring. Finally, you may want to consider carrying in C-3 for awhile, or at least until youve completed the initial shakedown period of new ownership. Its up to you; but, personally, I always carry my Glock in C-3 this way.

Until I get my CCW, the G-21 is to be a range gun, and will be unloaded unless actively in use, so the carry conditions are a non-issue, I can't see myself carrying in anything other than C-3 (empty chamber, loaded mag, right?) until I get comfortable with C-2 (chamber loaded, hammer down on a hammer-fired weapon), C-1 seems far too risky for firearms that can handle it, like my Taurus PT-99 AF, even though it *can* be carried in C-1, I wouldn't feel comfortable with it Cocked and Locked)

JDoe
September 7, 2008, 01:36 PM
You might try calling Glock...have a look at this THR archived thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-290933.html)'s last posting...

Glock parts are cheap. If anything broke on mine I would just order it and replace it myself. About the only thing I've heard that breaks is the guide rod.

But why pay for it when you can get it free with a phone call. I just called Glock yesterday about a 4256-1 trigger bar for my 21 ( mine has the 4256 in it). They said no "problem we will also send a new firing pin block plunger, need anything else" Sure how about a new striker spring and trigger return spring, it is being mailed to me today. So I am happy with their service.

911Boss
September 7, 2008, 03:56 PM
The issue with the trigger bar is related to light strikes. No "danger" other than a click when you expect a bang.

As to the long running paranoia over trgger pull between Glocks and revolvers, I have yet to have a Glock with a 3.5# connector that actually resulted in a 3.5# trigger pull. Even on a gun with polished surfaces, lightened springs, and a 3.5 connector, the best I have gotten is 4#. 3.5 connector without the rest of the work and regular springs is closer to a 5# pull.

I just check my brand new G30 with a factory 5.5# and it averages a touch over 7# on 10 pulls, with a low of 6#.

My Dan Wesson revolver had a 7# DA pull and my wife's SP101 is 8#.

As always, keep your booger hook off the bang switch and everything will be ok.

Welcome to the G21 family, I've had my 21SF for about 7 months and just got the baby-brother 30SF yesterday. Reamarkable how good these guns shoot. I sold my P220ST after gettignt he 21SF and sold my Kimber to finance the 30SF. Very happy with my .45 Glocks.

SubSolar
September 7, 2008, 05:04 PM
Glocks are best in .45 for sure, I'm much more accurate with the 21/21SF's than all the other models.

MacTech
September 7, 2008, 05:14 PM
I just got back from the range, there was a seminar for women who had never shot a gun before so I had to wait for range time (more on this in the general thread, long story short, they had great fun and their eyes were opened to firearms and sport shooting, it was a great thing for them), since we were trying to generate more interest in sport shooting, I had no problem waiting my turn

Anyway, put in some trigger time on the 21, and let me say this, in short, I *LOVE* this gun!

I had always been neutral to slightly negative on Glocks, the Safe Action trigger system gave me the willies, I didn't like the balance shift as the mag emptied on the 9mm Glocks i've tried, and I was dubious about the durability and reliability of the polymer components, in short, I was *NOT* a fan of "Tactical Tupperware"

In the interest of fairness, I gave it a fair...shot... (pun intended) and was quite impressed with what I experienced

Reliability; I only had a 50 round box of AmEagle on me, but it ran the entire box at 100% reliability, no FTF, FTE, or stovepipes, every time I pulled the trigger it went *BANG!*, OTOH, I did have my first stovepipe with my Taurus PT-99AF today, but a quick Tap-Rack-Bang and I was back to shooting, my first stovepipe after at least 300 rounds total, so not too bad

Functionality; as above, 100% reliability, and as an added benefit, the Glock wasn't as *messy* as the Taurus, the PT-99 loves scattering brass far and wide, it has essentially a random ejection pattern, some brass goes beside me, some behind me, some in front of me, it has a 360 degree ejection profile, the Glock 21 tends to spit brass to the right and ust behind my right leg, sometimes it conveniently deposits them in the Glock's storage case, a much neater, well mannered ejection profile on the Glock

Accuracy; more accurate than my PT-99, I group 1/2" groups with the G-21 at 7 yards, compared to 3/4" to 1" groups with the PT-99, I haven't tried further ranges, as the pistol range was only set up for the 7 yard range for the new shooters

I'm trying hard to find something about the G-21 that I *don't* like, but really, nothing springs to mind, well, aside from the more expensive ammo that is....

the recoil on the G-21 is incredibly controllable, a gentle push straight back with minimal, if any, muzzle rise, and due to the nice heavy slide, there seems to be no balance shift as the mag empties, at least not one I can notice

Basically, if ammo prices were the same for 9mm and .45, I'd end up shooting the .45 more, as I'm more accurate with that round

Compared to my PT-99, the G-21 is actually more docile, controllable and a softer shooter than the already soft-shooting PT-99, I'd feel more comfortable letting a learning shooter fire the G-21 (after a solid briefing on the requirements of shooting a Glock, and an explination of the Safe Action trigger) rather than the PT-99, due to it's more controllable recoil

In fact, I did let one of the new shooters try it out, she had just completed the intro course using a range-supplied Ruger Mark II, and was trying out her own .357 Magnum Smith, her first gun, she asked what I was shooting, I told her, offered to let her run a mag through, she quite enthusiastically said yes, I explained the Glock's unique features and let her have a go

She put me to shame, she shot a ragged two-holer group, putting six rounds through the same general area on the target, definitely a natural, she was

She seemed to enjoy it, thanked me, and went back to her .357, her range buddy was most impressed, he also remarked that she was a natural (she was also on the trap range bustin' clays like she was born to do it....)

so to make a long post longer, I was wrong about Glocks, they *are* great guns, I love my G-21 :)

Ghost Walker
September 7, 2008, 05:20 PM
The issue with the trigger bar is related to light strikes. No "danger" other than a click when you expect a bang.

Though often parroted over at Glock Talk that remark is absolutely untrue! Were there light strikes? Yes, there were; but, the cause was the G-21's tendency to FOB. This problem was attributable, in part, to the original shorter and smaller #4256 trigger bar.

The Glock factory knew for a period of years that G-21's were firing out-of-battery; the factory was, also, aware that - in certain instances - overcharged 45 acp ammunition aggravated the situation. However overcharged ammunition was only part of the problem.

It wasn't just faulty ammo in Portland and a few other jurisdictions that caused Glock to finally correct the trigger bars; additionally, it was other FOB problems with the United States Secret Service, the Georgia State Patrol, and numerous other G-21 owners, like myself, who finally forced the factory to address the problem.

I never cease to be amazed at the number of, 'internet experts' who repeatedly mouth this fable. Many of them have never even owned or carried a G-21; and, yet, they, 'know' the answers and are quick to publish their, 'knowledgeable' opinions!

Unlike so many of these, 'experts' I actually lived through the problem; and, I did this for more than 3 years while everybody was arguing about, 'Why' G-21's seemed to be exploding! During that time I had range officers stop me from firing my G-21 with comments like; 'I'm positive your Glock's slide isn't returning to battery!' I had other line shooters tap me on the shoulder, hand me some of my brass, and, 'suggest' that I stop using Federal Hydra-Shok ammunition. Over a two year period I developed a personal regimen of safety precautions and little mechanical corrections to my G-21's in order to prevent myself from becoming another statistic-of-note on GT.

(He must have had his finger on the trigger!) :barf:

In order to prevent my G-21's from going kaBoom! I had to use reduced loads; I lubricated my slides with high tech moly grease; and, I installed solid steel guide rods. There were times during matches when I could actually feel my slides, 'chattering' while in rapid fire; but, still, I stayed with my Glocks and continued to use and carry them until the solution finally appeared!

At this juncture what can I say? How about: Please, show more regard for the other guy's personal safety. Don't craptalk on the internet about a subject on which you know next to nothing and have never had to live with on a daily basis.

I've owned and used two Glock Model 21's, originally equipped with the old #4256 trigger bars, for more than 5 years now. I use and carry a G-21 everyday. There's a lot of things I don't know and, probably, never will; but, Glock's Model 21 isn't one of those things! I am intimately familiar with Glock's development of the third and final version of their #4256-1 trigger bar; and, I fully understand, 'Why' it's just a little bit oversized in its several dimensions.

Attributing the development and use of the new #4256-1 trigger bar to non-threatening, 'light strikes' is tantamount to covering a bullet wound with a Band-Aid. The problem went much deeper than that! On a potentially dangerous topic like this if you really don't know what you're talking about the best course-of-action is to remain silent. That would be the moral and considerate thing to do - You know, 'The High Road' way to proceed. ;)

My G-21 has the 4256 trigger bar, is this something I can replace myself, or does the pistol need to go to a gunsmith/Glock service for this, and how risky is the gun to use in it's current config, ATM all I'll be doing is punchin' paper with it. Is this considered a warranty/recall thing, or is it considered a maintenance part?

As far as I know, Glock is simply treating this problem as another quiet, 'upgrade'. With Federal's, 'American Eagle' brand ammo I doubt that you'll have a problem. The hotter the ammo, and the faster you fire the more you've got to be concerned about the old trigger bar. When I called Smyrna to order my new bars, they would only ship to a local certified armorer.

I don't know how much experience you have with taking Glocks apart; but, from reading your posts, I suspect you'll be OK. My certified armorer is a shooting buddy; so he just handed the parts to me for at home installation. This was a golden opportunity to do a, '25 cent polishing job'. I took out my Dremel Tool and put a high shine on the entire internal mechanism before I reassembled the pistol.

I neglected to mention that you should, also, examine the front of your firing pin, AND the firing pin safety. If you see any galling, at all, on either part then replace the both of them.

Your comments on the first field test of your, 'new' G-21 are spot on! I share the exact same opinion. I have never used any pistol in my life that is more controllable in rapid fire than the G-21. 'Soft shooting' is an understatement. Good luck with that Glock; and, here's one of my former, 'problem children' -

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/1382/glockg215vx0.jpg

RUNS LIKE A ROLEX! :D

MacTech
September 8, 2008, 09:26 PM
Well, I called both Glock tech support and my local gunshop, which happens to have a certified Glock armorer, I spoke with the armorer as well, both of them gave me the same answer....

they said I could send the frame into Glock for upgrading to the new 4256-1 trigger bar, but they both stressed that it was unneccecary, that the standard 4256 was just fine, sending it to Glock would be covered under warranty, if the local armorer did it, I'd have to pay for parts and labor, but they both stressed repeatedly that the 4256-1 upgrade was not neccesary and the 4256 would be fine

I'm not sure what to believe here, I get the feeling that Glock and my gunshop are feeding me a line of BS, I'd like for the stock 4256 to be fine, but if it's risky to leave it stock, I'd rather have it replaced with minimum downtime, on average what's Glock's repair queue like?

Dain Bramage
September 8, 2008, 09:34 PM
Welcome to the Collective.

Your new name is "Glockutious". Go forth and assimilate.

Ghost Walker
September 8, 2008, 10:03 PM
I'm not sure what to believe here, I get the feeling that Glock and my gunshop are feeding me a line of BS; I'd like for the stock 4256 to be fine, but if it's risky to leave it stock, I'd rather have it replaced with minimum downtime, on average what's Glock's repair queue like?

:) You do whatever you want. You asked for opinions; and, I've given you mine along with the reasons why. It may take you a few years to catch onto this; but, the typical Glock armorer is an idiot. A competent gunsmith doesn't need to take that Mickey Mouse factory course; and, of those who do, most leave the building just knowledgeable enough to do less rather than more damage to the Glocks they handle.

Analyze this situation for yourself: In this instance you have two, 'Glock armorers' telling you that some crazy graduate engineer in Austria wasted his time and a lot of Gaston's money on some cockamamie trigger bar that nobody really needs.

(Does THAT make any sense to you?) :rolleyes:

One other thing: You don't have to send your G-21 anywhere. It's a 3 minute repair! Read over the LINK (http://glockparts.com/page/ufw0/Home/Disassembly.html) I provided above. If you can take a Glock apart, you can replace the trigger bar, firing pin, and FP safety in a matter of minutes. Taking a Glock apart is child's play; any idiot can do it. Just take a moment to do a little reading first.

The only tool you'll need is a long shank 3/32" machinist's punch available from any large hardware store. (Sears!) Here's a list of the most common Glock disassembly/reassembly screw-ups:

1. Remove all pins from left to right. Replace all pins from right to left.

2. The flange on the slide lock should always face toward the back of the pistol.

3. The bevel on the firing pin channel liner should always face forward.

4. Don't let the sharp end of the firing pin spring come to rest exactly on the split between the firing pin spring cups.

5. The trigger spring should always be installed in the form of an, 'S' rather than a, 'Z' when you hold the trigger bar out in front of you with the THU in your left-hand, and the trigger, itself, in your right-hand.

6. The spring arm on the slide stop lever goes UNDER the #1 pin; and,

7. Don't remove the firing pin channel liner, or the magazine release and its associated spring anymore than you really need to.

8. Don't put any oil inside the FP channel. After you clean it out with a Q-Tip, leave it dry.

9. Don't put the extractor/depressor/plunger rod in backwards, either! (The spring is always to the rear with the steel rod section toward the front.)

10. And, finally, always make sure the button head on the recoil guide rod is fully seated in its assembly groove BEFORE you attempt to replace the slide onto the frame.

Here's another good, 'How To Take It Apart' guide:

Ghost, Inc. (http://ghostinc.zoovy.com/c=y0Qvm0batGXQVsuq7O728eiMy/category/istallationinstructions/)

Here's a schematic that's, also, good for nomenclature and parts identification:

Numrich Gun Parts Corp. (http://www.e-gunparts.com/productschem.asp?chrMasterModel=2440z21)

PS: Do keep an extra slide lock spring and a couple of additional spring loaded bearings in your cleaning kit. (Because the SLB has a way of flying off into space whenever you remove the slide cover!)

Finally, take a moment to be sure that the FP safety spring hasn't turned sideways after you installed it. (Push the FP safety up and down; it should move and spring back freely.)

I'd, also, suggest that you keep an eye on your slide lock spring. It is the one part of a Glock that - if it fails - can shut your pistol right down. I take mine out and inspect it for stress cracks and fatigue about twice a year. ;)

MacTech
September 8, 2008, 10:24 PM
Actually it does make sense (the consensus of my fellow THR'ers, that is) I'd trust someone with actual *real world* experience far more than some parts monkey that took an online course to get a factory "authorization"

I've been fixing Macs for more than 10 years, the first five or so without Apple Authorization, as Apple never required it, five years ago Apple required all techs to get official authorization, renewed yearly, I've had ten years of real-world experience fixing Macs, I've met and worked with "techs" that had all the factory certs you could shake a stick at, fresh out of school, and they couldn't troubleshoot worth crap, as it was all book learnin'

now that I know that KTP is an armorer, I think I'll call Glock back and have them send me the repair parts kit, I may even try to repair it myself

thanks for the real-world advice, it's appreciated :)

Ghost Walker
September 8, 2008, 10:54 PM
:eek: Mac, you sound much too levelheaded for the internet!

With the information you presently have in hand - if you can troubleshoot a computer - you can, certainly, disassemble and reassemble a Glock, and replace a few simple parts.

I've built a few computers in my time - Much more difficult than working on a silly pistol! The most common mistake I've made is to forget to keep my thumb over the top of the slide cover as it comes off the back of the slide. (Good-bye SLB!)

Right now, you really do have all the technical details that you need to easily complete this repair; and, you want to know what? It's fun to do! Honestly, one of the best reasons to own a Glock is the joy of being able to wave bye-bye to the guy who used to keep your 1911's up and running.

From now on you can tap into the internet and do better than 90% of your Glock repairs and modifications by yourself at your own workbench! ;)

MacTech
September 9, 2008, 01:11 AM
I've field-stripped my 21 and am inspecting it's componentry to see if I can figure out how they go together without taking them apart, I can pretty much visualize how they go together

One thing that strikes me about the Glock design is it's utter *simplicity*, judging from the exploded diagram in the owners manual, it's hard to believe this thing only has thirty parts! this bodes well for reliability, a simpler design has less to go wrong, compared to my Taurus PT-99 AF, which has well over 60+ parts, many of them tiny and/or under spring tension

I was mainly examining the trigger bar assembly to see if I could replace it by just tapping out the trigger housing pin, lifting out the trigger mech. housing, disconnecting the trigger spring and removing the front of the trigger bar ass'y from the trigger and drop in the updated components, skipping removal of the slide stop lever and locking block....

basically, I wonder if it's possible to replace the TBA by removing just the one trigger housing pin....

And for some reason, I'm getting the urge to trade in my PT-99 AF towards either a CZ-75B or a G-17, I love the Beretta design, but seeing the exploded view makes me hesitant to dissasemble it beyond simple field-stripping, it looks needlessly complicated

I'm finally understanding the inherent beauty of the simplicity of the Glock design, they won't win any beauty/styling contests, but they're pure functionality, and that's beautiful to me, Glock is the Spyderco of semiauto pistols, functionality first, reliable, affordable tools, looks are irrelavent

Hmmm..... a Borg Cube and a Glock pistol share a similar, efficient "cubist" design to them, maybe Gaston put Nanoprobes in the polymer grip section

I'm even adjusting well to the safe action trigger system, I look at it as very similar to a DA revolver trigger, and I learned handgunning on revolvers, the SA trigger doesn't bother me anymore....

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