Does it really make sense for...


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Shawnee
September 7, 2008, 06:11 PM
…the “typical hunter” to buy a rifle in a caliber sufficient for Elk ?

A look at some numbers….

From Oregon’s state wildlife website…

“Hunting Pressure and Harvest
During 2000, more than 700,000 hunters pursued a herd of almost one million elk across western Canada and the United States with a harvest of about 160,000 elk annually.”

WOW ! 700,000 Elk hunters (including ARCHERS) bagged 160,000 elk, a success rate of about 23%..... and it took all of the U.S. PLUS the western half of Canada to do it… or about 2/3 of the continent.

Well here are some more numbers…

In 2007 - 683,000 hunters (just 17,000 less than the continent’s total elk hunters) bagged 484,000 deer (3 times the continent’s elk total) - in the state of Michigan - alone. Read that again – there are almost as many deer hunters in Michigan as the total number of elk hunters in the entire U.S. and half of Canada. Michigan – ONE STATE.

Hmmm.

How about…

In 2007 – ARCHERS bagged 116,000 deer (equal to 72% the continent’s elk total) in the state of Wisconsin – alone. Wisconsin’s total 2007 deer harvest was 518,000, or more than 3 times the continent’s elk total.

… or maybe…

Minnesota with 500,000 hunters (71% of the number of all elk hunters) bagging 200,000 deer (125% of the number of elk taken).

Gosh… let’s try …

Pennsylvania - 2005 – total deer was 354,000 – more than 2x the continent’s elk total.

Ohio – 2007 – with three days of the season lost to weather – 238,000 deer or almost half again as many as the continent’s elk total.

Indiana 2007 – 124,400 deer, or more than ¾ the continent’s elk total.

Gee… 2/3 of the continent has 700,000 elk hunters taking 160,000 elk – with less than 1 in 4 successful…

But, at least two states each have numbers of deer hunters nearly equal to the continent’s total number of elk hunters… AND

… just six states (count ‘em – 6 !) have a total of successful deer hunters that is more than 3 times the total number of the continent’s elk hunters and MORE THAN FOURTEEN TIMES the continent’s number of successful elk hunters.


Decide for yourself if the “typical hunter” really needs to burden themselves with a caliber capable of flattening elk, moose, grizzlies, lions and tigers. And the next time someone asks what caliber they need for a deer rifle – tell no lies.

:cool:

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TCB in TN
September 7, 2008, 07:05 PM
:rolleyes: Feeling a bit full of ourselves today are we?

Javelin
September 7, 2008, 07:09 PM
Haha. Elk are suckers sometimes to find. If the weather is bad enough they can come down from the high mountains but sometimes they hang up there and you gotta find them.

And a 30-06 is a fine Elk gun IMO.

:)

rugerfreak
September 7, 2008, 07:10 PM
Just get a .270 or 30 ought and be done with it.

TexasRifleman
September 7, 2008, 07:15 PM
Decide for yourself if the “typical hunter” really needs to burden themselves with a caliber capable of flattening elk, moose, grizzlies, lions and tigers.

Hey if the money flows that well for you then sure, buy an Elk gun when you get around to an Elk hunt someday.

If, like most people, you have to pay attention to the money flow then buy a gun big enough for what you HOPE you'll be able to use it for someday.

That might include Elk hunting, even if you never get around to it.

Not quite sure what your point is to be honest, other than not as many people hunt Elk as they do other game. I suspect everyone knows that already.

Vicious-Peanut
September 7, 2008, 07:16 PM
You really enjoy getting people all revved up huh? Nearly all of the threads you start turn into huge 5+ page topics in which people insult, yell at and demean each other. You also seem to have a personal vendetta against people owning a rifle larger than a 7mm. So they want one, what difference does it make?


Have fun with your thread, but it seems all you are trying to do is get people riled up.

CB900F
September 7, 2008, 07:31 PM
Fella's;

Elk are not armor plated, as Javelin said, the .30-06 work just fine as an elk gun. Any decent deer rifle, with exceptions on the lighter end, will work as a decent elk gun. Shot placement trumps caliber every time.

However, please don't take the .243 elk hunting. That wimpy little garbage round is just asking for trouble on that size an animal.

Snrk! 900F

Ratshooter
September 7, 2008, 07:54 PM
I think this might be the beginning of another "A 243 is all you need thread". I could be wrong. I like a 243 and don't intend to sell mine but when headed out for deer I just grab one of my Remington 7-08s or my 7x57.

Or this year a 44 or 357 mag levergun.

kentucky_smith
September 7, 2008, 07:55 PM
Does it really make sense for Shawnee to start more and more threads belittling everything and everybody but him and the .243?


:D


I said it once and I'll say it again. My pre64 M70 and my M1 came in 30-06. I've never had to doubt if I had enough gun.

Ratshooter
September 7, 2008, 07:57 PM
I forgot to add. I have two Remington 700s. A 243 and a 30-06. Both have wood stocks and 22" barrels. The 243 is a quarter pound heavier.

To lighten my load would be to use the 30-06 and for whitetails i have reduced power loads. If I had to pick between those two for a hunt guess which one gets picked.

Deer Hunter
September 7, 2008, 08:04 PM
How about we let people buy what they WANT and not what they NEED?

scythefwd
September 7, 2008, 08:08 PM
Well, since I get an elk tag every year and can hunt 1 elk each year to the west of the blue ridge mountains, I guess it is good to carry an elk rifle in the mix. That said, my 06 stays at home (would you take a glass bedded garand out hunting) and either my 12ga or my 30-30 goes out with me. The blue ridge mountains are way too far away from me to bother with.

Shawnee
September 7, 2008, 08:27 PM
"....threads belittling everything and everybody but him and the .243?"

Hi "Kentucky Smith"...

LOLOLOL :D:D:D

You can't find even ONE thread I've started where I have - as you lie "belittled everything and everybody but him and the .243".

And you can't find even ONE place in the OP of this thread where I even mention the .243 or myself.

What part of "tell no lies" is beyond your grasp ?


Others - I'll say it again......

"Decide for Yourself."


:cool:

Jeff F
September 7, 2008, 08:39 PM
Like I have said in a couple of other posts, I have a cousin that has killed a couple of elk with a .22 hornet. Like was said above shot placement is way more important then how big the bullet is.

SimpleIsGood229
September 7, 2008, 11:04 PM
Jeff, your cousin is way over-burdening himself with that .22 Hornet. Too much flash and blast. Tell him to start hunting deer with something more suitable--like a .22 Short. :rolleyes:

browningguy
September 7, 2008, 11:37 PM
Elk guns also work fine for deer, pigs coyote etc. I don't have an elk gun anymore, a guy wanted my Dumoulin in .338 Winnie real bad. But I still get the .458 Winnie out deer and pig hunting at least once a year. That 400 gr. softpoint at 2300 FPS really does a number on coyotes also.

Dookie
September 7, 2008, 11:42 PM
I thought the 17 HMR was the ultimate elk rifle. hmm, well I guess I better bump it up to the 223 :)

My brother is dead set on buying a 300 win mag because he wants to hunt elk. While the 300 is a superb elk rifle, it's not so good for our little white tail he also wants to hunt. And because he listened to an "expert" on local hunting he won't listen to the multiple other people who tell him that a middle caliber like the 270, 30-06, 7mm or 308 would be better for what he needs. He also hasn't quite got that elk are not exactly easy to hunt.

Ben Shepherd
September 8, 2008, 01:08 AM
Lets see:

$40 tag= 150 lbs. of venison

$80 tag= 3-400 lbs of elk meat.

One gun for both jobs(30-06). Works for me.

Around here, I'm lucky, elk are as easy/hard to get(both tags and animals) as deer.

goon
September 8, 2008, 01:45 AM
I can't speak for other states, but here in my part of PA you're lucky to even see a deer during deer season anymore.
But assume that you do shoot one. Or that you shoot both a legal buck and a doe - two deer.
Then assume that you're the "average hunter". That, by definition, means that you will fire exactly one three-shot group per season. As long as two of your shots are on a sheet of paper at 100 yards, you'll call your rifle zeroed and head to the woods.
Then you'll shoot one (or two) deer at approximately 70 yards. You'll aim at the chest cavity because that's a pretty big target, about as big as your sheet of paper, and you'll probably kill your deer. You're OK with that because it's "good enough".

My whole point?
Doesn't matter what caliber you use if you're just an "average hunter" as long as it's powerful enough.
You won't have to deal with punishing recoil because even the most sissy guys I know can handle a grand total of five or six rounds of 30'06 in the course of a year.
Will something smaller work?
Yep.
But if you think that maybe, some day you might want to hunt bear or elk or go "out west" why not buy a gun that can do all those things with relative ease?
After all, you only have to put up with extra recoil for six shots per year.

jbech123
September 8, 2008, 12:48 PM
Decide for yourself if the “typical hunter” really needs to burden themselves with a caliber capable of flattening elk, moose, grizzlies, lions and tigers. And the next time someone asks what caliber they need for a deer rifle – tell no lies.

Glad you did so much diligent research, I would have never guessed there are way more deer killed annually than elk. I hope I don't find out next that more people fish for bass in North America than run traplines for wolverine.
Don't know exactly what a "typical hunter" is. In any event, if you are hunting elk, you need a cartridge powerful enough for elk hunting. A .270 is about the low end, although a .243 or .260 will do the job under ideal conditions. You don't need to flatten a elk or moose, but certainly you need a rifle adequate for the task.
Really you just make a bunch of generalizations..."And the next time someone asks what caliber they need for a deer rifle – tell no lies". Well what conditions are we talking about? I would be perfectly content using a .243 to shoot southern whitetails in Alabama or Coues deer in AZ. Or a 30/30 in the thick woods of Michigan. However under many circumstances, it would be a far less than optimum choice. Let's say you are an average working guy and after 5 years of saving your change and wife convincing, you are now set to go on a whitetail hunt of a lifetime to Saskatchewan for ~4K. Would a 30/30 work? Sure. Would most people opt for something with more range in this scenario? I know I sure would.
Or an actual situation that I am in right now - drew a really good very hard to get mule deer tag. Talking to people in the area, prospects look fantastic but consistent message I'm getting for the area is "very open country, be prepared for long shots". While I love my .243, when I'm looking at a 190" muley 400 yards across a canyon, I don't want to be concerned about how much energy my bullet will have left at that range, and will it be enough to bring down a 300 lb deer if my shot is anything less than perfect. Anything that will decrease my chances on this hunt has no appeal to me.
Hunting big game is no different than any other endeavor, you use the tool adequate for the job. I could probably cut all of the wood needed to refinish my basement with a chainsaw, or on the other end of the spectrum, I could use a hack saw. Neither one is the correct tool for the job though. While I saw you said above that you didn't say any caliber in particular, blah blah blah. We all know what you are getting at. The fact still remains if a guy wanted to buy only one rifle, the .243 or 30/30 would be a poor choice, unless you are hunting under very specific circumstances and have no desire to expand them in the future. I personally think limiting yourself to one rifle is a bad idea. However the fact of the matter is many "typical hunters" buy a rifle thinking "I will mostly be hunting deer, but I will likely go out west for elk at some point in my life, so why not just get enough gun to handle an elk/moose/bear should I be lucky enough to have the opportunity to hunt them." So they opt for a .270/30-06/.308. Actually if you are really hell bent on having one rifle, those are solid choices. And with the availability of the "managed recoil loads", you can downgun them for whitetails if/when appropriate.

Shawnee
September 8, 2008, 02:27 PM
Hi "Jbech..."

"I personally think limiting yourself to one rifle is a bad idea."

So do I.

I also think someone who can afford a $4k hunting trip is neither "typical" nor unable to afford a second rifle.

I also think using an Elk rifle for deer is every bit as bad an idea as using a deer rifle for Elk.

If you "would be perfectly content using a .243 to shoot southern whitetails or Coues deer in AZ. " and feel that "under many circumstances, it would be a far less than optimum choice." (blah, blah, blah)... so be it. Enjoy whatever limitations you have to accept... after all, they are your limitations.

For the third time - I made no caliber recommendations and I said "decide for yourself". ;)


And by the way, Jbech... "We all know what you are getting at. "

It's a hoot how you big-bore types think one, or a few of you, speak for everyone.

:D :D

TexasRifleman
September 8, 2008, 02:41 PM
I also think using an Elk rifle for deer is every bit as bad an idea as using a deer rifle for Elk.

Following that reasoning then I should not have ONE .30-06, I should sell it and buy TWO rifles, one for deer and one for elk?

I don't feel like I'm "limiting" myself. Wow, I must be doing it wrong.

Same with the .45-70. An outstanding round for whitetail in the proper loading, also excellent for elk with the proper loading.

Guess that's "limiting" as well.

HM2PAC
September 8, 2008, 02:56 PM
I'm not understanding the point of this thread either.

When I started reading it, I was pretty sure Shawnee was going to starting bashing calibers he doesn't care for again. (In the back of my head, I'm still waiting for him to start. Probably after he gets people to agree that you don't NEED the same caliber to kill a deer as you do an elk.)

But so far he hasn't done that.

So tell us,....

....which calibers should the "average hunter" limit himself to, and which calibers are only for those who can afford them to hunt Sandworms on Arrakis?

jbech123
September 8, 2008, 02:57 PM
For the third time - I made no caliber recommendations and I said "decide for yourself".
Not in this thread, but a quick search here makes it pretty obvious, My personal favorite being the one where you call the .243 the "King". Although this quote is a close 2nd - "and THE #1 - hands-down, guaranteed, All-Time Best Champion centerfire rifle caliber for the typical U.S. hunter is unquestionably - as everyone knows - the .243 Winchester. an' Tha'ss a Fac', Jac !"

I also think using an Elk rifle for deer is every bit as bad an idea as using a deer rifle for Elk. Even though you obviously lack objectivity, at least your arguments normally have some logic behind them. This statement is utterly ridiculous. So following that line of logic, using a .458 for woodchucks is every bit as bad as using a 22 hornet for cape buffalo?

If you "would be perfectly content using a .243 to shoot southern whitetails or Coues deer in AZ. " and feel that "under many circumstances, it would be a far less than optimum choice." (blah, blah, blah)... so be it. Enjoy whatever limitations you have to accept... after all, they are your limitations.
Could you explain to me how evaluating a situation and saying "the .243 would probably get the job done, but this tag normally takes 12 years to draw, I think I will err on the side of caution and take my .270" is me "accepting my limitations".

I realize your goal here is to just get people riled up. I do find it laughable though when someone calls you out, you act like someone thinking you have an axe to grind with anything .30 cal, is preposterous and they are making up lies about you. The search button is only a click away, your posts are easy to find.

Shawnee
September 8, 2008, 03:07 PM
Hi TexasRifleman...

"....and buy TWO rifles,"


I wasn't aware there is something wrong with owning two rifles.;)


Hi HM2....

The point of the post is to show a more accurate picture of what the "typical hunter" does and needs.... thus giving people factual data so they can decide for themselves.

Hi Jbech... You have a perfect right to your opinion(s) - but it is no more perfect than my right to my opinions.
And by the way - considering some of the hyper-blather about the '06 that the .30 cal. types post here - none of you needs to make so much as a chirp when someone praises a different caliber - yet it's always you .30 caliber dudes who are the first and loudest to whine and cuss and cry foul. What's up with that corral dust ? Can't take it? Don't dish it out. :D

What makes you '06 freaks (or possibly you Texans !) think everyone else here is required to sing from your Hymnal??? Surprise - they aren't.

:cool:

Andrew Wyatt
September 8, 2008, 03:19 PM
i use a .308. ammo is available everywhere, it shoots tiny groups, and i can kill anything in north america with it. the same cannot be said for many other calibers.

TexasRifleman
September 8, 2008, 03:29 PM
What makes you '06 freaks (or possibly you Texans !) think everyone else here is required to sing from your Hymnal???

Not really the point. You said that using your deer rifle on elk was a bad idea. Turns out that's sorta silly since very often they are the same thing, and certainly not just with the '06.

Still trying to figure out what the original point was :)

Gaiudo
September 8, 2008, 03:35 PM
the silliness continues....

Titan6
September 8, 2008, 03:42 PM
Well for gosh sakes don't buy a rifle that can shoot elk. Clearly Shawnee will be upset. Buy something smaller like a .243 where he gets a commission on every one sold.

Shawnee
September 8, 2008, 03:46 PM
"Not really the point"


ROTFLMAO !! :D:D:D You are proving it is a point TexasRifleman.:D:D:D


"very often they are the same thing,"


and that, in my opinion, is silly.

If you disagree - fine. If you want to wear yourself out with all your Angst, that's fine too.

LOLOLOL ! :D:D:D

Titus
September 8, 2008, 03:52 PM
Sounds like another disgruntled Browns fan!

Shawnee
September 8, 2008, 04:08 PM
LOLOLOL ! :D:D:D

:rolleyes:

Here's the deal, Lads...

Read the original post.

Decide for yourselves.

Respond however you like.


LOLOLOL ! :D:D:D

surjimmy
September 8, 2008, 04:20 PM
Well I live in Oklahoma where I think our deer are nice, they are nowhere near the size of most other states. Last year I used a 300 winn mag, and shot 2 deer. This year I bought a Tikka 300 short mag. Alot of people say thats too much gun, and yes I know about shot placement(Spent 4 years in USMC as a rifle expert, and have been shooting for over 35 years) I say this, I bought a 300 WSM and a 300 Winn Mag because thats what I wanted. If you think that's too much gun I will be happy to hunt with another cal. if you buy it, but until you pay for my gun then it's none of your business what I use as long as it's legal. I do have other guns, I have a 308 and just bought my son a ........here it comes a 243 so he can hunt. I will hunt with my 300 because that is what I choose, and NO IT'S NOT TOO MUCH GUN. for whitetail. Why don't we try this..... The next time you ask someone what cal. they shoot and they tell you something other then what you think they should hunt with just say "Not my choice, but have heard lots of nice things about it" By doing that your not going to piss them off and if you guys start talking you have a better chance maybe to sway them your way or at least be more open minded about it.

HM2PAC
September 8, 2008, 05:03 PM
Respond however you like.

Sounds as though when someone responds how they like, you get your panties in a twist.

No one is screaming about .30Cal rifles.......except you.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
September 8, 2008, 05:19 PM
It's a good point, espec. in light of the fact that IINM the majority of elk hunter hunt with a BOW, not a gun. Reason being, in several states, anyone can get an archery tag, but you have to luck out and draw into (and pay more for) a gun tag for elk.

Having said that, the people who buy the bigger boomers for deer do so for two reasons:
1. Ignorance - everyone else they know down in Mayberry county has a "three hunnerd mag" or "seb'n mag", so by damn, they are gonna have one, too. They just don't know any better (that's it's unnecessary recoil), and
2. People don't have a lot of disposable income for the hunting sport, and so want to maximize their hunting gear dollar - so they get one rifle to cover the bases "just in case".

(or both)

I sure cannot argue with reasoning #2. Me, I'll stick with .243, .30-30, or 6.5x55 for deer, but I have lots of guns.

Actually, there is a third reason, but it's very very rare: They are actually good riflemen who know how to make a hit at long distance, and hunt out west or in AK where it's dry and sparse, and shoot goats/sheep/mulies/elk hilltop to hilltop - a 7mm or .300 maggie is well justified in that situation.

TehK1w1
September 8, 2008, 05:20 PM
I am kinda wondering where the whole "Texan" thing comes into it-what does that have to do with anything? I am tired of being told that I 'don't need' anything bigger than a 243/6mm/308 win, though. (And why is it that Shawnee always seems to be the one doing it?) I respect your opinion, but I'm starting to get tired of hearing it.

Edit: PremiumSauces, I'll add a third reason; Because they're fun. Some people enjoy a certain amount of recoil.(45-70 FTW)

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
September 8, 2008, 05:25 PM
Some people enjoy a certain amount of recoil

then there's that, too - we'll call that reason #4. Why I myself was once a young whippersnapper who liked recoil. Now, notsomuch.

jbech123
September 8, 2008, 05:28 PM
You have a perfect right to your opinion(s) - but it is no more perfect than my right to my opinions.
True, but you are the one that keeps starting condescending posts (whether actually saying it or implying it) that state the .243 or 30-30 are all that is needed for deer and the .243 is the ultimate round for North American hunters(yes you have said this, I checked). The fact that the .243 is not the ultimate deer round under less than ideal circumstances is not an opinion, it is a fact. I'm not saying the '06 is, or if such a thing even exists, it just is definitely not the .243.
And by the way - considering some of the hyper-blather about the '06 that the .30 cal. types post here - none of you needs to make so much as a chirp when someone praises a different caliber - yet it's always you .30 caliber dudes who are the first and loudest to whine and cuss and cry foul. What's up with that corral dust ? Can't take it? Don't dish it out. There are more posts by you starting threads saying the .243 is king than probably all the "'06 is king" posts combined. And most of the "blather" about the '06 greatness is usually in response to one of your "why the average US hunter is way overgunned by using the unbelievable power and punishing recoil of the massive .30-06" threads.
Dude, if it were just me saying these things, I could say hey maybe it's me. But there is a definite pattern emerging in how most people view your posts. Think about it.

woof
September 8, 2008, 05:32 PM
For me: I hunt deer in heavy woods where a shot at even 100 yds is rare. I have no need for a .308 or .30-06 and don't own one. I have four "deer rifles," a .30-30, .35 rem, .250/3000 and x39. If I had the opportunity to go on an elk hunt I would buy a rifle suitable for the terrain, probably used, and just resell it later. After seeing those numbers, I might not even bother. And come to think of it, I have too many deer rifles!

goon
September 8, 2008, 05:47 PM
... in that case.
I'd say that yes, it just might make sense for a "typical" hunter to buy a rifle sufficiently powerful to kill an elk.
Because...
He will still probably shoot less than half a box of ammunition through it a year.
The extra power and recoil won't make any difference much and since he'll probably be using factory ammo that's on sale for deer season (if he even has to buy a box this year) the price will be about the same for .270, .30'06, .308, and .243. At the very least, the larger rounds won't be too much more expensive to justify buying another rifle.
And although he primarily shoots only deer (maybe hogs too for you southern guys but we don't have them in PA), he might just want to try getting a black bear once in awhile. Personally, I've never shot a black bear and have no intentions of shooting one. But if I did, I think I'd want a reasonable amount of lead headed downrange - probably 165 grains or more.

Now if you are talking about the atypical hunter, the guy who actually practices in the off season and maybe even loads a few boxes of his own handloads a year, and that guy has no plans of ever shooting anything bigger than a medium sized whitetail, then maybe it makes more sense to go with a little less gun.

cerberus65
September 8, 2008, 06:19 PM
I too have noticed several threads recently that Shawnee has started that have quickly descended into flaming. Not too high road...

No offense, Shawnee, but a little less trollish behavior would make a number of us happier. I may be off base but I get the impression that you really want folks to agree with you. Be content with the choices you've made and don't worry what others on the net think. There's no one right choice for everyone. Each person has their own unique requirements and that tips trade-offs different ways for different folks. Something that's close to perfect for you might not work at all for me. That doesn't mean either of us is wrong - just different.

For the record: my one deer rifle is a .243. I see the occasional ".243 is for youth/women/beginners". Doesn't bother me a bit. I looked at the ballistics. I looked at the range of bullet weights. I thought about the things I want to shoot with it. And I decided it was the right choice for me.

Peace, friend.
cerberus

TexasRifleman
September 8, 2008, 06:34 PM
For the record: my one deer rifle is a .243. I see the occasional ".243 is for youth/women/beginners". Doesn't bother me a bit. I looked at the ballistics. I looked at the range of bullet weights. I thought about the things I want to shoot with it. And I decided it was the right choice for me.

Don't know who would say it's for women or beginners except maybe the clueless :) I did get one when I was 14 but I still use it, so it's clearly held up over time. I'm neither young nor a beginner, pretty sure I'm not a woman though I do like shoes.

.243 is an outstanding cartridge. That's why I can't quite figure out what the point of this thread was to begin with.

CB900F
September 8, 2008, 09:18 PM
Fella's;

O.K. I'll up the ante. Centerfire rifle for hunting big game. Varmint calibers (.22-250 et al) need not apply. Only three allowed.

1. A 6mm of one ilk or another, even a quarter bore. Let's say a 6mm Remington, since it's everything the .243 wants to be when it grows up.

2. The .30-06. Yup, there's other choices, but this one's the standard.

3. Winchester's .338 magnum. Can produce the same energy levels as the .375 H&H, but a lot easier to get ammo for. Over 2 tons of muzzle energy is not to be sneezed at even by mythic moose, bodacious bears, or eerie elk.

900F

tinygnat219
September 8, 2008, 09:42 PM
Shawnee,

What's your beef with the .30-06? :rolleyes:

I shoot a 30-06 with a 180 grain bullet because I don't want to go chasing something all over a mountain range. If it makes a big exit wound, I am not going to care. It just means the animal dies quicker and means less time wasted trying to find an animal that is doing its best Bin Ladin impersonation.

The 30-06 I own was purchased with several points in mind:
I wanted something that could be used for both short, and long range shots.
I wanted soemthing that was versatile and could be used for any game in North and South America.
I wanted something where hunting ammo was inexpensive and able to be found anywhere I went in case I forgot my hunting ammo at home.
I wanted something that could shoot cheap surplus ammo to get used to the trigger, rifle, and action.

SoCalShooter
September 8, 2008, 09:52 PM
I would hunt with a 300 weatherby magnum I would hunt with larger when I get the money for a nice CZ.

Ben Shepherd
September 8, 2008, 09:59 PM
Ok another angle here Shawnee. You quote the success rate at 23%. Fine. Most hunters WILL go after thier chosen species until successful.

So buy your "one" rifle , kill a deer every year. And get your elk the 4th year. What's wrong with that? Maybe in buckeye country elk are scarce. But not out here.

And say what you want about the 243. Maybe in Ohio it's a fine "all-around" cartridge. But out here the adult deer START at 200 lbs. And elk? Nobody but a supreme marksman using a TOUGH slug who's willing to pick a shot carefully, or a complete jackass would take a 243 after a big bull elk.

mljdeckard
September 8, 2008, 10:06 PM
What your numbers glaringly leave out is that every region has different types of deer, which have different calibers appropriate to kill them. Different states have different laws for what weapons and advantages for hunters. You can't sweepingly lump all deer hunting into one category when some states allow silencers, crossbows, baiting stations, dogs, etc, and others don't.

wanderinwalker
September 8, 2008, 10:07 PM
Well, guess my deer rifle needs to be replaced pronto. It's a .45-70 barrel on a T/C Encore. But then, the .45-70 is pretty popular around here. Never shot anything with mine, but the guys that do shoot deer regularly speak fondly of the big slug. Something about easy tracking and good knock-down in the brush.

The truth of the matter is, many of the rifles we tote around are seriously over-powered for the majority of the tasks we ask of them. So what? As long as it works for you, go shoot happy. Anything that goes BANG! and puts holes in things is generally OK in my book.

Around New England, you will find many deer slain with .30-30s, .35 Remingtons, .270 Winchesters, 30-06's, .308s and even more 7mm Magnums and .300 Magnums than you might expect. And the lucky moose hunters are frequently successful with...

wait for it.....

.30-30s, .35s, .270s, .30-06s, .308s, etc. Go figure!

All that said, I've always had a fascination with the .300 Magnums. Not a need, just a want. I may get one someday. Afterall, on the Encore, it IS only a barrel away. :what:

telomerase
September 8, 2008, 10:15 PM
Decide for yourself if the “typical hunter” really needs to burden themselves with a caliber capable of flattening elk, moose,

Finally, "Shawnee" (or Shaawanwaki) exposes his hidden agenda. He's trying to take all the WMDs* away from American gun owners! (He's probably still miffed about the role of moose rifles in the 60 Years War).

When the Terminators come for you in 2012 (one of them already came for the Barrett .50 in California), you won't think your moose rifle is NEARLY big enough :scrutiny:




* Weapons of Moose Destruction

Ben Shepherd
September 8, 2008, 10:28 PM
One more thing: Have YOU ever put one down that was full of rotting meat and maggots from a previous wound? I have. More than once. And if I could find the incompetent #%^!$&@! that wounded it(through poor placement, wrong caliber, wrong slug, etc) and did not track it down to finish the job?

Well, nevermind, this is the high road.

Also, where I hunt it is a FACT that 243 is light for deer, and extremely marginal/borderline unethical for elk. For moose? ILLEGAL.


Yes you got my goat. But when I see someone encouraging bad hunting practices....:fire:

mljdeckard
September 8, 2008, 10:43 PM
I agree. It is unethical to not use enough gun.

It IS legal to hunt elk here with a .243, but I don't know anyone who would do it. I do know people who hunt mule deer with a .223 or a .22-250. Some of them are good enough shots to anchor them with one shot, first time, every time. Most aren't.

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