colt 41 derringer no permit is it worth it


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jay49319
September 8, 2008, 12:21 AM
i have a chance to get this colt 41 derringer with s/n 81xx its not stolen this guy got it from his uncle after he died i have a chance to get it but is it woth any thing not having a pemit

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MICHAEL T
September 8, 2008, 12:28 AM
not having a pemit

Where do you live No permit where I am at.

Exmasonite
September 8, 2008, 02:00 AM
does it come with punctuation?

Loomis
September 8, 2008, 02:04 AM
Huh? The gun doesn't have a permit, or you don't have a permit? What permit are you talking about and why does a permit affect the value of a firearm?

jay49319
September 8, 2008, 02:47 AM
i live in mi every time ive got a gun there was proof of owner ship so you know its not stolen but with this guy geting it from his uncle out of state he has no proof it could even be stolen i really dont know hes not a gun person so just wants to get rid of it i bought a 60's derringer once and the guy had the permit too prove ownership i just dont wanna over pay any have an idea what it might be worth the s/n start with 81xx what should i do

ArchAngelCD
September 8, 2008, 02:50 AM
jay49319,
You really need to use punctuation, caps and proper sentence structure. It's very hard to follow your thoughts when they all run together on the page. I'm not bashing you, I'm serious.

Welcome to the forum...

jay49319
September 8, 2008, 02:57 AM
Thanks for the information.Not all of us graduated from high school.If you could be some help to the situation on hand,id apreciate it...

wuchak
September 8, 2008, 03:05 AM
There may be some paper work from his Uncle e.g. a will. If you know the guy and trust him just get a bill of sale from him with data and SN signed by both of you. If you have any worries you could take the SN to the local police and have them run it to see if it comes up stolen.

jay49319
September 8, 2008, 03:09 AM
I dont mean to confuse any one,im new to this mess board.The problem im having is the gentlemen selling the gun has no proof of owners ship.If i buy this would that be like buying a gun with the serial number shaved off?I dont wanna loose out if its a good deal.What would something like this be worth in good condition.Im looking for a ball park figure.Its a colt 41 single shot derringer,appears to be from the 60's.The serial number starts with 81XX.I apreciate every ones help,even on my punctuation...

ArchAngelCD
September 8, 2008, 03:11 AM
According to Proof House the Colt .41 Deringer was made in 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Models. Yours can't be a 1st Model because the S/N range is 1-6500. The 4th Model was made in .22 RF Short only so that model is out too. That leaves only the 2nd and 3rd Models which were produced in .41 Caliber.

A .41 Colt Deringer with the Serial Number 81xx in a 2nd Model would have been produced between 1870-1890. The S/N range is 1-9000.

A .41 Colt Deringer with the Serial Number 81xx in a 3rd Model (Thuer) would have been produced between 1877-1912. The S/N range is 1-45000.

Proof House doesn't list prices so I'm sorry I can't help you there.

jay49319
September 8, 2008, 03:23 AM
I did some lookind around at some pictures.It looks just like a 3rd.Theres some one right now thats selling one that looks just like the one im looking at.He's asking 765,and willing to ship it,so i gues proof of ownership dosent count.With it being that old would this guys uncles had a permit?

ArchAngelCD
September 8, 2008, 03:29 AM
I'm sorry, I still don't understand this permit you're talking about. None of my guns have a permit. No purchase permit is required for buying a gun in most states but there are exceptions like NJ. Anything that was bought more than 20 years ago wouldn't have any kind of permit connected to it.

jay49319
September 8, 2008, 03:29 AM
Its too bad.When i look at the one i found on the internet for sale,it still has the bluish color on the barrow.I look at this gun that the local gentlemen is selling and no blue on the barrow.Dose that mean some one cleaned it?

jay49319
September 8, 2008, 03:33 AM
Any time i have to get a gun in Mi,you gotta go too the police station and get a peace of paper,i was assuming its for proof of purchase,or more less so the state knows its in your hands.If this guys selling it not even haveing proof he ownes it is where im loss??

cane
September 8, 2008, 09:19 AM
Just for information, the .41 is an obsolete rim fire round and almost impossible to find.

rcmodel
September 8, 2008, 11:38 AM
This has all been throughly covered in another post by jay49319 yesterday.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=4891206&postcount=5

rcmodel

bigjohnson
September 10, 2008, 11:42 PM
According to Wilson's book "COLT'S DATES OF MANUFACTURE" a Colt derringer with a serial number in the 8100 range would be a SECOND model derringer, produced between 1870 and 1890. That would make the gun an antique, and exempt from any sort of permit requirement (except in NYC and NJ), especially since it fires a cartridge "not readily available in ordinary channels of commercial trade".

Sport45
September 10, 2008, 11:59 PM
You ask if it's worth it. That depends. What do you intend to do with this gun? If you are looking for something to shoot or use for self protection keep looking. This is not the gun for you. I'm not a collector so I can't advise if this model has much investment potential.

I wouldn't risk arrest for a gun I couldn't shoot anyway. But that's just me.

mtngunr
September 11, 2008, 12:01 AM
The gun, as you've noted, has collector's value....if you're a collector, just buy the thing...it's not like you're going to carry the thing or shoot it....as I recall, they have a brass frame....my brother-in-law has/had his dad's/grandad's Colt .41RF, and I pointed out a crack in the frame.....this gun would not make a decent carry gun due to fragility and hard-to-find ammo...but it makes a great collector's piece to show friends or hand down to heirs....ballpark value would depend on external and internal condition....say $200 for a dog, on up to $500+ for nice ones....finding someone else who wants one is the hard part....

whitebb
September 11, 2008, 08:13 AM
If its pre-1899, is it even classified as a "gun"? (Hense needing no documentation)

bigjohnson
September 11, 2008, 08:38 AM
Depends on the state law. The vast majority of states and the federal govt. recognize it as an antique. YMMV.

Old Fuff
September 11, 2008, 09:34 AM
jay49319:

I don't have any problems reading your posts... :)

Anyway, Colt .41 caliber Derringers are considered to be antiques or relics, partly because ammunition isn't generally available, and also because of they're age. They may not be shooters, but they are valuable. Michigan exempts antiques and relics from purchase permit requirements, so if you want the gun you should be good to go. However if you should be caught with it actually loaded (which is highly unlikely) you could be in trouble.

Clipper
September 11, 2008, 05:08 PM
Well, as a Michigan resident who has gone through a similar situation, here's the deal. Just take the gun to the Sheriff or local police (whichever applies...outside city limits usually goes to the sheriff's office) and just tell them you want to register this old gun, and that the guy had no papers for it. They'll run the serial number and if it's not on their stolen list, they'll register it for you. I bought a barrel & extention for my broomhandle Mauser on e-Bay, and had to assemble the gun and take it in, since the serial number was on the extention, not the frame. I had no reciept or anything, but had no problems. Now I have one pistol with two registration cards...

ArchAngelCD
September 11, 2008, 05:15 PM
Why would you want to register a gun with the government that isn't required by law to be registered? The less they know the better IMO. NEVER volunteer information if at all possible!

GigaBuist
September 11, 2008, 06:06 PM
Why would you want to register a gun with the government that isn't required by law to be registered?

It's required by law in MI for pistols.

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