.458 Win Mag


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BIGRETIC
September 8, 2008, 05:59 AM
I shot a .458 WIN MAG today.(It's in caps for a reason!)WOW!I was punished!This thing is an absolute beast!I have shot .300 win mags before but this thing takes the cake!1st 3 shots was a 6" group!I was hurting!After those my FAL felt like a .22!I would hate to fire a .600 NITRO!

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Afy
September 8, 2008, 06:15 AM
They do recoil quite a bit. Personally I am uncomfortable with anything larger than the .300 WM.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
September 8, 2008, 06:17 AM
I handloaded for a 460 Weatherby Magnum a number of years ago. I had to work up an accurate load, so I was at the range shooting it most of the afternoon.

Gotta hold on REAL TIGHT!

Shawnee
September 8, 2008, 07:28 AM
I sighted in two .458s one morning. Used 21 cartridges to do it. Felt like I had been in a small trainwreck.

:(

jkingrph
September 8, 2008, 01:05 PM
What was your position when shooting?

If shooting from a bench, typically you are leaned over into the rifle. If you do this with a heavy hitter like this it will kick the #*## out of you. From a bench you need to get as upright a position as possible. Ideally your upper torso should form a right angle or close with the rifle. That way your upper body can rotate in recoil and it will not be nearly as bad. Remember, these calibers are generally meant to be shot from a standing position, either completely offhand or using shooting sticks for a rest.

Last week I introduced a couple of friends to big bores, 45-70, 375H&H, and a 458 Win Mag and they had a good time. I ran into one a couple of days ago and asked how his shoulder was and he admitted it had gotten a bit sore, but then commented he went dove hunting Sat, on opening day and said his 12 ga was nothing.

Shawnee
September 8, 2008, 01:38 PM
Hi JKing...

LOLOL :D

I learned the lesson about being upright and at a steep angle after the first couple shots. :banghead::D

Also had to experiment for a few shots to get my left hand more effective at dampening things. Those were the major contributors to the problem, methinks.

The big bores are indeed a class unto themselves. Was surprised at how accurate they can be though, especially the .375 H&H. Would love to have a .416 Rigby and a 375 H&H just to play with but that probably won't happen anytime soon.... maybe.:)

Thanks for the reminder ! :)

jkingrph
September 8, 2008, 03:37 PM
Shawnee..

Just picked up a CZ 550 Safari Classic,375 H&H with pretty wood at a Gander Mountain in Tyler, Tx. First time I looked they had this one, one in 416 Rigby and one in 458 Lott. Now I alreadh have a couple of Ruger #1's in 375 and 458 Win.. I called and got them to hold the 375, and then decided to pick up the 416 also, but when I got there it was gone. Maybe a good thing, looking at that monstrous bottleneck case I think it might be in another league recoilwise than the 458. The CZ is a fine rifle, when I handled these they just fit, and felt good, like my old Parker shotgun when I first tried it. I throw this one up and the sights are right there were they should be. The Ruger's are a bit too short for me.

Big bores are another game, The friends who tried them said they could realize the power involved.

Shawnee
September 8, 2008, 05:20 PM
The Ruger #1 is the .375 that always tempts me but I haven't shot one - is it accurate and mangeable?

Are you going to get the CZ in .416 too ?

:confused:

Maybe the .416 Remington is the route to go, but the 700 for it is $3k.

Here's a good limk....

http://www.chuckhawks.com/416.htm


I figure the .416 to be about 65ft/lbs. of recoil (400-grainer) and the .458 to be about 66ft/lbs (500-grainer) Either of them is going to be a lot like work, fersure.

:D

homers
September 8, 2008, 05:51 PM
Remember that with a high quality bullet and proper shot placement, the 458 WM can handle pretty much anything in the lower 48 :)

Shawnee
September 8, 2008, 06:05 PM
"...in the lower 48." :what: ???


Methinks the .458 WM could sink the Exxon Valdez ! :D

Strongbad
September 8, 2008, 07:10 PM
I can readily tolerate the 458 WM. My father took a 458 Lott to RSA last year and that thing was pretty dang nasty. 500 grain solids. Ugh. I just picked up a Ruger 77 Safari in 416 Rigby that I'm looking to try out this deer season (there isn't anything else around here to kill with it). Judging by powder capacity and velocity, I expect the 416 will be worse than the 458 WM. Only time will tell. :)

SoCalShooter
September 8, 2008, 07:11 PM
God bless the sissy pad :)

jkingrph
September 8, 2008, 07:12 PM
The Ruger #1 is the .375 that always tempts me but I haven't shot one - is it accurate and mangeable?

Are you going to get the CZ in .416 too ?

Probably a negative on the 416, but if I did it would be the Rigby cartridge. For some reason I like most of those old classic calibers. I'm really relieved it was not there cause that would have meant new reloading dies, brass and bullets. Dies and brass for this one is very pricy, the 375 is not bad.

The Ruger #1 in 375 comes back very fast, a little more weight would help. I find myself dodging the scope. I have added a pre fit limbsaver recoil pad then put my leather action eze over it for extra length. The extra stock length really tamed the 458 , I probably shot 25 rounds from bench, some 535 gr cast loads, 350 Speer soft points and a few 400 gr bronze solids. My shoulder was a little tender, but not bad enough to keep me from a little bit with a 30-06.

I'm fairly tall . 6'1'' so I need a longer LOP and have found lenghting a rifle helps. My first to receive the treatment was a Win Mod 70 Featherweight 30-06 my Dad got for me when I finished high school in '63. First time I shot it was hot summer, using 180gr factory loads, only wearing a t shirt. That little rifle battered me worse than anything since, even had my shoulder leaking a little pink fluid(blood). The added 1+ inch of a recoil pad tamed it, and I learned to reload and shot some heavy stuff all through college.

Another thing about the Ruger #1 in 458Win Mag, It has enough freebore so you can seat bullets way out and use 458 Lott reloading data safely. You can do this with a straight walled case, not a bottleneck cartridge.

H&Hhunter
September 8, 2008, 07:31 PM
Depending on stock fit the .458 WM can have a little bit of bite. But stock fit and proper rifle weight are everything in a heavy rifle. A well fit rifle at a proper weight is a pussy cat to shoot in .458 WM or .458Lott for that matter.

All of the heavies are a nuisance to shoot off the bench. They are much more comfortable from a standing rest.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
September 8, 2008, 08:57 PM
This is why God invented the Lead Sled. A CZ 550 American Safari Magnum is on my "long-term" list - in .458 Lott.

Shawnee
September 8, 2008, 09:57 PM
"The Ruger #1 in 375 comes back very fast, a little more weight would help."


I've always thought that might be the case with the #1.

I don't know anything about the .458 Lott except that it is supposed to be like a .458 WM on steroids.:eek: Is it just a lengthened .458 WM case ?:confused:

almostfree
September 8, 2008, 10:03 PM
The Ruger #1 is the .375 that always tempts me but I haven't shot one - is it accurate and mangeable?

I have both the Ruger #1 and the CZ 550 in .375 H&H. I love them both, though I've had more problems with the CZ (stock cracking and sights wrong size). I put it up for sale on this forum, but pulled it down (thankfully no one was interested, as I would be kicking myself right now). It is currently on its way back to the factory.

I don't really think there is a substantial difference in recoil. I think the #1 does come back faster as was previously mentioned, but I found my accuracy (open sighted on both) to be better with the #1.

Believe it or not the #1A in .30-06 ends up hurting worse the next day than the #1 in .375 H&H. It's really sharp.

Shawnee
September 8, 2008, 10:51 PM
"Believe it or not the #1A in .30-06 ends up hurting worse the next day than the #1 in .375 H&H. It's really sharp."

I think the #1 was made (limited quantities) in both 30/30 and in .300 H&H.
I would take either of those over the '06. Seems to me the 30/30, in particular) would be a sweet deer rifle.

:cool:

H&Hhunter
September 8, 2008, 11:47 PM
This is why God invented the Lead Sled. A CZ 550 American Safari Magnum is on my "long-term" list - in .458 Lott.

PremiumSauces.

Save your self a whole lot of heart ache here. DO NOT SHOT full power Lott loads in a stock CZ from a lead sled. IT will break your stock.
After you've had the thing cross bolted and bedded then maybe you can use a lead sled but I would count on it sticking together even then. Lead sleds with weight on them and heavy rifles just don't mix.
You really need to have a CZ 550 in a Lott cross bolted and bedded anyway or it will split at the trigger tang probably sooner than later.

I am speaking from first hand experience here.:)

almostfree
September 9, 2008, 08:56 AM
You really need to have a CZ 550 in a Lott cross bolted and bedded anyway or it will split at the trigger tang probably sooner than later.

That is what happened to mine in .375 H&H. I actually received it that way and the cracking began extending directly behind the bolt as well.


I think the #1 was made (limited quantities) in both 30/30 and in .300 H&H.
I would take either of those over the '06. Seems to me the 30/30, in particular) would be a sweet deer rifle.

I don't disagree with you. I especially like the the .300 H&H.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
September 9, 2008, 09:45 AM
I remember with the 460 Weatherby Magnum, I was loading and shooting Barnes round tip solid bronze 500 grain bullets.

I had it pulling a 3/4" group at 100 yards (bullet holes basically overlapping each other).

We went out and lined up three hardwood trees that had differnt points of impact (first tree, center, second tree, one side, third tree, other side). The trees were not real large, probably 5-6" in diamter. There was a freshly-hayed field about 20 yards beyond the trees.

One bullet went perfectly straight through all three trees and made about a 10' long divet in the field - perfectly lined up with the shot. When we retrieved the bullet, other than rifling grooves, the nose was almost perfectly round, like new.

That would be SOME PENETRATION on an EXTREMELY LARGE GAME ANIMAL! Probably clear through from chest to stern, or darned near through!

jkingrph
September 9, 2008, 11:45 AM
I don't really think there is a substantial difference in recoil. I think the #1 does come back faster as was previously mentioned, but I found my accuracy (open sighted on both) to be better with the #1.

Believe it or not the #1A in .30-06 ends up hurting worse the next day than the #1 in .375 H&H. It's really sharp.


I'm relieved to see someone else thinks the #1 375 comes back fast. I'm just hoping the extra lop will help. I will a couple of weeks before I have a chance to try it. I can see where the #1 would be more accurate with open sights, vs the express sights on the CZ, but those are for quick shooting not pinpoint accuracy.

I could see where a 1-a in '06 would hurt, especially with heavier bullets. I have one in 7x57 and with light bullets it's a pussycat, heavier bullets are more noticable but still fairly mild and much more accurate.

It's amazing how we can divirge, this thread is intitled .458 Win Mag, and we are all talking about other calibers.

tom1200
September 10, 2008, 03:36 AM
Regarding bedding and cross bolting the CZ-550 I would agree but also recommend removing the stock front swivel post and replace it with a barrel band.

moooose102
September 10, 2008, 08:04 AM
you guys are L U C K Y !!! i have always wanted to shoot a couple of dangerous game rifles. in particular, 375 H&H, 416 remington, 458 win mag, and 460 weatherby. i know they will be punishing, but for me, it would be a once in a lifetime thing.

H&Hhunter
September 10, 2008, 07:16 PM
Moose if you ever get out towards Colorado you'd be more than welcome to come to range. I can let you loose with a .375H&H, .404 Jefferys, .458 Lott and .470 Nitro Express.

Once you've shot them you'll be surprised just how easy they are to become accustomed to.

A heavy rifle in a proper weight is really pretty mild to shoot once you get over the mental part of it. Remember recoil is 99% mental. The secret to shooting any rifle is to RELAX and roll with the recoil. It also helps to hang on the forend nice and tight. That alone reduces your felt recoil by about 80%.

Now having said that there are some rifles that will flat put a whooping on you. Once you get into the big .50's such as the .500 Jefferys and the 577 T-rex, the .600 NE you are in big whooping territory. I've got no reason to shoot any of the big sporting .50's and I find them to be a real handful.

I do have buddies however who have mastered them and they are very comfortable shooting them.

DarkSoldier
September 10, 2008, 09:49 PM
My wife and I have very little experience with large bore dangerous game rifles but we fell in love with shooting them during a session at our range last spring.

We were introduced to the .458 Lott in the Ruger bolt platform by a friend who has some experience hunting dangerous game both here and in Africa. He soon had us both shooting what he referred to as "Minute of Cape Buffalo" groups (three rounds into a circle the size of a dinner plate at fifty yards, off hand, as fast as you can work the bolt and reacquire a sight picture).

Now we are determined to add a .458 Lott to our gun safe even though we are unlikely to become angry enough at a large beast to want to travel to some exotic location and kill it. We'll leave that to our hunting friends and use ours to punch paper.

Respectfully,

DarkSoldier

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