640 question


PDA






Elbert P . Suggins
September 8, 2008, 06:37 PM
I've seen pictures of 640s for sale and also on this site but never one quite like I bought several years ago. Can't include a picture at this time so will try to describe it. Of course it is a Stainless Smith but it has a brass trigger, ejection rod, and cylinder release button. It also has simulated wood grips that have bronze, gray, and black swirls as the design. Don't know the correct name of the grips. Does anybody have one of these or has ever seen an example?

If you enjoyed reading about "640 question" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
rcmodel
September 8, 2008, 06:40 PM
The parts are certainly not brass.

Perhaps plated with something or other.

Sounds like a "Bling Job" someone had done on it after they got it, and before you got it.

rcmodel

Elbert P . Suggins
September 8, 2008, 07:05 PM
It's either brass or gold plated. The gun was new from S&W I believe in 2004 and never fired. I bought it from a NW chain store called Black Sheep for $580. They have never sold used guns or any that have been altered. Thanks for the reply.

popeye
September 8, 2008, 10:33 PM
Is it marked "Lady Smith"?

Elbert P . Suggins
September 9, 2008, 12:26 PM
No sir, it just says on the right side of the barrel Smith&Wesson and underneath that .357 Magnum. When you release the cylinder it says 640-3 on the frame under the serial number. It is all stainless except the trigger, cylinder release button and the ejector rod which are brass in color. And after looking at the grips better they have black and gold swirls and when gripped and fired the trigger guard hits my middle knuckle enough to make me sore for a week.

popeye
September 9, 2008, 08:49 PM
It may have come through Lew Horton as some kind of special order. In the past you could call them, and they had an archive of special runs they'd check for you.

popeye
September 9, 2008, 09:05 PM
Supica & Nahas list 640-3 as having a lock. Lew Horton looks like blind alley. Maybe a one of a kind. I had a gold plated (not by me) 36 2" RB about 30 yrs. ago. Never saw another.

ArchAngelCD
September 10, 2008, 05:04 AM
-Special for TALO: Model 640-3 with internal lock system called the "Model 640 Gold" featuring gold (titanium nitride) thumbpiece, extractor rod and trigger. .312" smooth trigger, Silver finish with black Altamont wood Boot Grips, .357 Magnum . Weight 22.5 oz. Product code 163699. Manufactured in 2002.

Here is the link for the page on TALO Distributors (http://www.taloinc.com/smith_wesson.htm) where you can find your revolver. (at the bottom of the page) It looks like they are still available at a price of $599.

Elbert P . Suggins
September 11, 2008, 12:40 PM
Thankyou very much ArchAngelCD, that is the gun that I have. I had no idea it was a special run because Black Sheep where I purchased it only recieves and sells what their main headquarters sends them. They don't order anything. In this case it makes my Smith just a little more special. It is my main carry piece in a hand made belt paddle holster. It fits to the body tight and when covered with a shirt or long vest it is not noticed. Because of its coating it doesn't seem conducive to corrosion of any kind even in 100 degree weather. A fairly tight group at 25 feet with alot of fire power packed in a five shot revolver that you can always depend on firing each and every time. What more can you ask for?

Elbert P . Suggins
February 22, 2009, 03:20 PM
Rather than starting a new thread I thought best that I just use this older one that I started several months ago. It seems like I am having trouble with this 640-3 locking up once in awhile when trying to go to another round after firing. The cylinder doesn't seem to want to turn when pulling the trigger. I can free it by opening the cylinder and trying again. My question is I have read where an internal lock can come into play and not allow you to fire and could this be what is happening? And what is the internal lock for and if it does have one shouldn't there be a sign of it externally? The only thing I can find is something above the cylinder release button on the left side that has an arrow and the letter L. Is this the lock?

MrBorland
February 22, 2009, 03:53 PM
The Lock? Yep - that little hole above the cylinder release is The Lock. Lordy be, there's a lot written about it here. I'm no expert on it, but if you're able to temporarily fix it by opening and closing the cylinder, it doesn't sound like the lock's engaging to me.

Does this only happen when it's loaded? With .357mag? If yes, especially to both, my suspicion is that the gun just needs a cleaning, since the rounds may not be seating completely, in which case, they'd hit the back of the frame when rotating into position.

Check the chambers and for crud under the ejector star. Maybe heavy carbon buildup on the front of the cylinder, too - so much it may now be hitting the forcing cone. This could cause the symptoms you describe even if the gun weren't loaded

If it's happening primarily .357mag ammo, I'd say the .38s have left their ring of crud in the chamber, making the longer .357s difficult to seat. Very common. A brass brush, some Hoppes and elbow grease.

Does it only happen after you've fired the gun? Are these re-loads? Maybe the crimp isn't strong enough, and the bullets are backing out a wee bit under recoil.

Finally, open the cylinder and check the ejector rod to be sure it hasn't unscrewed (and lengthened) a bit, though I'd be surprised if that were the problem here.

If none of these pan out, and the gun's still doing this while unloaded, you may need a gunsmith to take a look at it.

Guillermo
February 22, 2009, 03:56 PM
Yes that is the infernal lock

Check your extractor rod and make sure it isn't backing out. If it is, some locktite will fix it.

I would also remove the side plate with the exact size hollow ground screwdriver and clean and lubricate the gun. While in there you can disable the repugnant lock. (it is amazing the lack of lube found in new guns)

If you are not sure about disassembling your gun, ask around. You can get someone to help you do it the first time.

Guillermo
February 22, 2009, 03:57 PM
I was late...allow me to revise my post and say "What mrborland said".

He is spot-on everything he suggested.

Elbert P . Suggins
February 22, 2009, 05:37 PM
Thanks alot fellows for this information. I was just about ready to switch to another carry gun but I feel this is one of the best CCW guns. Yes it only happens when it is loaded and also only when I use 357 which is quite brutal with the small grips the 640-3 gold series was issued with. I carry this all the time and have been very neglectful in cleaning it. I bought this new and I don't remember any tool in the box to move the device on the left side with the arrow pointed to L. Why is it even there? And if there has been alot of discussion on it before than it seems like a fault in design. So while cleaning and lubing if I take the side plate off the RIGHT side how do I disengage the lawyer doohicky?

Elbert P . Suggins
February 22, 2009, 05:41 PM
And also the ammo is factory loads and from now on anyway I will carry with 38+P instead of 357.

MrBorland
February 22, 2009, 10:27 PM
Why is it even there? And if there has been alot of discussion on it before than it seems like a fault in design.

Loaded question. Do a search here on THR and you'll get lots of opinions. Many hate it and discuss it ad nauseum for any number of reasons - what it represents (an American archetype caving into political correctness), for aesthetic reasons, and/or for fear of a lock-up. Others don't care.

As far as a "design flaw", that's another area of debate. Some admit that had it been introduced under different circumstances, or decades ago, like a hammer block or transfer bar, we might think it perfectly normal today. Others see it as an additional and unnecessary mechanical linkage that can/will cause problems at some point. I haven't had much interest in doing the digging, but I understand the documented instances of lock-up are very rare. Your troubles, for example, don't seem to be related to the lock, but rather the need for a good cleaning.

So while cleaning and lubing if I take the side plate off the RIGHT side how do I disengage the lawyer doohicky?

Again, I'm no expert, but I understand you can disable it by Dremeling off one little metal tab. Use the search function. If this is a CCW, though, my advice would be to first look into any liability issues regarding the disabling of the lock. Maybe it's a non-issue, but it'd be a good idea to look into it so you can be comfortable with your decision.

BTW, if you decide to remove the sideplate to mess with the lock or clean/lube the action, there's a right way and a wrong way to do it. Again, use the search function for more info. And use the correct screwdrivers.

Elbert P . Suggins
February 23, 2009, 02:08 AM
MrBorland, I did searches all afternoon and found a few answers but your response was more informitive than anything I saw. I never even realized this gun had a lock until today and I do not remember even getting this new gun in a box much less seeing a key. I certainly don't have a manual for it because I always keep them. I read how to remove the side plate but I don't want to go any further than that. Can I see the tab you mentioned by doing this? And another question, I remember in times past with the cylinder open I could pull the trigger and the hand, bolt, and hammer would activate. Now with it open the trigger is locked up. Is this the way it is supposed to be or was I imagining things before? Thanks for your help.

johnnylaw53
February 23, 2009, 08:19 AM
I have posted on the lock before this is another problem with the lock it seem if the weapon have a problem people want to say it the lock from what Elbert is talking about I don't see it being the lock I feel what Mrborland is suggesting is right on clean it good check the ejector rod and it should be fine.

be safe

MrBorland
February 23, 2009, 08:43 AM
I remember in times past with the cylinder open I could pull the trigger and the hand, bolt, and hammer would activate. Now with it open the trigger is locked up. Is this the way it is supposed to be or was I imagining things before?

You should not be able to pull the trigger when the cylinder's open, so, in this regard, your gun is operating as it ought to be.

I read how to remove the side plate but I don't want to go any further than that. Can I see the tab you mentioned by doing this?

To be honest, I've never messed with the lock, even from the outside, so I can't provide any further info on disabling it. My guess is that, with a key, you'd be able to easily identify the offending tab when the sideplate's off and the lock engaged.

If want to disable the lock because you're worried about the lock engaging and/or internet chatter & heard horror stories, again, it's my understanding that the actual documented cases of lock-up are very rare; and when they do happen, it happens to featherweight aluminum or scandium-framed magnum guns shooting very hard recoiling rounds. Much more recoil than even your 640 shooting .357mags. Shooting your 640 with .38 +P ought to pose no problem whatsoever.

Nonetheless, a key and a manual, are always good things to have if you don't already have them. I'd contact Smith & Wesson. Tell them your story, and I'm sure they'll be able to send a key and a manual. I found a generic S&W manual for you on-line (link below). If, like me, you're not registered with this site, you'll be limited to reading it on-line rather than downloading the pdf.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/9449753/Smith-Wesson-Modern-Style-Revolver-Instruction-Manual

Elbert P . Suggins
February 23, 2009, 11:44 AM
Thanks Mr Borland, I will call S&W and ask for a key and manual which I do not have. Thank you very much for your help.

If you enjoyed reading about "640 question" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!