Pistol-caliber carbines


Arrogant Bastard
September 8, 2008, 09:17 PM

I have an urge to get one of these (not necessarily THIS brand), but I need to convince myself it has a practical purpose and fills a niche in my collection.

If there's already a recent thread devoted to this topic, I apologize -- please post a link?

My collection currently consists of:

S&W 640
Glock 30
Taurus PT1911
Ruger 10/22
Ruger Mark III Hunter
Remington 870 Express 12-ga 18"

I also have plans to pick up an AR-15 eventually.

Why would I want one of these, other than that it looks neat, and I want one? Give me the pros and cons, and models I'd probably consider, if I were serious about getting one, please.

My current thinking is that for home defense, it would make the most of a pistol caliber, getting the maximum velocity from a round, be far more accurate than a handgun, without the spread and possible collateral property damage of a shotgun, and less penetrating than a rifle round.

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September 8, 2008, 09:27 PM
Pistol-caliber carbines tend to be the worst of both worlds. You get the poor performance of a handgun round, without the portability of a handgun.

IMO, they are only useful for plinking.

SMG's are a little different story, especially when supressed.

You'll be much happier with an AR-15

September 8, 2008, 09:32 PM
High-Point 995 9mm carbine, light, as accurate as needed, will feed and fire anything I have fed it.

The only sore point is that it is as ugly as warmed over sin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D


Livin in Texas

September 8, 2008, 09:34 PM
Check out this thread going on about the Kel-Tec SUB 2000:


More effective than a handgun as it's a rifle
Ease of engaging a target beyond handgun distances.
More accurate than a handgun
Little felt recoil due to pistol ammo.
Pistol ammunition becomes more effective due to extra velocity.
Follow up shots are easier to make.
Good option for an inexperienced shooter to build confidence.
Good option for a secondary rifle in a group.
Prices are reasonable.
Some share magazines with existing handguns
Easier to find places to shoot them (most indoor ranges are pistol caliber only)
More compact than a full-blown rifle.


Loses effectiveness past 100 yards
Pistol cartridges are not rifle cartridges

I own two: A KT Sub 2000 in 9MM that takes Glock 17 Magazines. This means that it also takes 31 round Glock 18 magazines. Since I also have a Glock 19 pistol, these can be interchanged if necessary. I keep the SUB 2000 folded up with 4 loaded G18 magazines and a Glock 19 with 2 G17 Magazines. These are kept in a separate gym bag in the safe for a "Bug out Kit" if I have to evacuate. I also know that I can hand the SUB 2000 to my spouse while I wield something heavier. The weight of the SUB 2000 is a laughable 4.5 pounds. Maybe 5.5 fully loaded.

My other one is an 1894 Lever Action in .357 Magnum. I feel that this is the perfect carbine as the heavier .357 loads REALLY gain a punch coming out of it's 18 inch barrel. It's also dead on accurate at 100 yards and allows for easier follow up shots. Toss in a .357 Revolver and you don't have a need to even HAVE a magazine that can get caught, lost, or damaged.

I have owned the Hi-Point 995 and while neat and accurate, I wanted something with more than 10 rounds and one where magazines could be shared with a handgun. The KT SUB 2000 answered those requirements and more.

I think the distance these carbines REALLY shine is between 50-100 yards. The longer barrels and better control give some extra legs and oomph to those pistol cartridges. It also gives a shooter a better chance to hit something at that distance than a handgun would. These are something of a niche tool, and are a nice supplement for a full powered rifle.

September 8, 2008, 09:40 PM
Pistol ammunition becomes more effective due to extra velocity.

I hear that a lot, but have not seen evidence to confirm it. I have heard that pistol bullets slow down in barrels over 10 in inches. I donít have any evidence either way. Just curious.

September 8, 2008, 09:41 PM
my 9mm carbine with a 19" barrel(haven't cut it to 16 yet) puts out almost 600 ft-lbs 1530fps. I've engaged steel at 200 yards with using only a red dot, accurately. Its lots of fun, cheap to shoot, and works well for small animals, I tore a rabbit apart not long ago with a 115gr gold dot.


September 8, 2008, 09:46 PM
Pistol ammunition becomes more effective due to extra velocity.
I hear that a lot, but have not seen evidence to confirm it. I have heard that pistol bullets slow down in barrels over 10 in inches. I don’t have any evidence either way. Just curious. "Pistol ammo" gains velocity in longer barrels because the powder has more time to burn completely.

All those cool muzzle flashes you see at the end of your 1911 are just wasted potential.

September 8, 2008, 09:49 PM
i want to find a good 357 carbine, magnum calibers are supposed to be great for leverguns, and i want a levergun eventually.

September 8, 2008, 09:54 PM
I've got a semi-auto Uzi. Mags are cheap, ammo is about 1/3rd the price of 5.56 NATO.

I mostly shoot it at local matches where rifle calibers aren't allowed because of damage to targets/safety. It's a great training tool for practicing CQB and getting additional trigger time.

PCCs (Pistol Cal Carbines) aren't rifles. They don't have anywhere near the hitting power or the range of a rifle. I'd buy (and did) a rifle in a common military caliber before getting ANY PCC. I'd say a PCC is something to acquire when you already have a decent handgun and rifle set up.


September 8, 2008, 10:01 PM

The pistol round becomes more effective because it has a longer barrel to take advantage of the powder. As has been posted here before me, the muzzle flash you see is powder that wasn't burned in the barrel. The longer barrel gives that powder the opportunity to burn, thus increasing the velocity and therefore the effectiveness of the round as it also gains stability with the increased rifling.

Here's something for you:
Out of a pistol barrel, the 357 magnum produces about 535 foot pounds of energy with a velocity around 1235 fps. This same round, out of a longer rifle barrel, will be accelerated to around 1600 fps, giving it an effectiveness of about 900 foot pounds of energy to deliver to the target.

It's much more effective out of a rifle barrel.

September 8, 2008, 10:03 PM
Why would I want one of these,

Pest control without losing your hearing.

Hunting of small to medium game without losing your hearing.

Moving inexperienced shooters up to something hotter than a .22 without giving them a flinch from muzzle blast.

Use of cheap ammo.

And yeah, plinking (aka practice) at ranges where you can't use rifle ammo.

The guys saying to get a real 'rifle' (actually even an AR-15 is hardly a real rifle if you look at the low energy of the cartridge, the ever-improving body armor, etc.... that's why the M-N is the rifle of the future AND the past :D) are probably right for most people, depends on your situation.

September 8, 2008, 10:07 PM
Thanks to everyone who replied to my post. I know long barrels were important in the black powder days, but I was under the impression that pistol powder burned completely long before the bullet reached 16 inches.

September 8, 2008, 10:15 PM
First off, pistol caliber carbines are just plain fun!

That said, I'd get the AR-15 first (just don't confuse it with a "real rifle" :neener: ), a PCC later. I have an AR-15 (heavy match rifle, but it still fires 5.56 rounds) and it is more accurate, easier to engage at distances with and has a very low recoil impulse for what you get down range. But I would NOT take it hunting anything larger than coyotes and small deer, personally.

However, right next to the AR-15 sits a Marlin 1894 in .44 Magnum. Yes, I hear all the time, "why have a rifle in a handgun round?" It works for me though. Out of the 20" rifle barrel, 240gr JHPs run about 1700-fps, about 400-500 fps faster than they do out of a handgun barrel. To me this is enough gun to be a plenty comfortable 100-yard deer and black bear killer.

The downside is that it is much more difficult to hit things past 100 yards with than the AR-15 (or something in say, .30-06 or even 7.62x39). Yes, the 200-yd steel gong is in trouble from the Marlin, but it takes a very good knowledge of your trajectory.

September 8, 2008, 10:18 PM
I have rifles in 32 mag, 357 mag, 44 mag and two in 9mm. I like them a great deal. Easy on the shoulder and powerful enough for deer. Plus they can be very cheap to shoot.

My 357 Marlin is my favorite rifle. My buddies son killed his first deer with a Marlin 9mm Camp Carbine. It ran about 40 yards and dropped.

Whats not to like?

September 8, 2008, 10:24 PM
I was under the impression that pistol powder burned completely long before the bullet reached 16 inches.

It keeps pushing for a while after it's finished burning.

Though of course that's not the real reason that there are no 15" barrels :cuss:

September 8, 2008, 10:35 PM

September 8, 2008, 10:36 PM
Maybe they're powerful enough for deer in Texas. :) I would NOT try to knock over the mulies here in Utah with a 9mm carbine.

I will always tell someone to shoot something that they think is fun. If you like it, you'll shoot it more. If the ammo is cheaper, you'll shoot it more still. All shooting practice is good. You are allowed to have a gun just because it's fun.

But the only weapons of this type that really deliver overwhelming stopping power fire bursts, are fully automatic, or both. If I wanted a weapon of this type for cheap, low-recoil practice, I would use a 10/22. If I am going to use a long gun for real defensive uses, I want full advantage of a full cartridge. The velocity increase of a longer barrel might well help, but you can't tell yourself it's the same thing as a rifle cartridge.

The only ones that really are in the power range to have real potential would be .357 mag or .30 carbine. (A pistol cartridge seldom used in pistols at all.) I absolutely concur with machivshooter.

September 8, 2008, 11:55 PM
I had a Ruger PC9 but I wasn't very happy with it; shooting 9mm out to 100 yards just doesn't have a lot of appeal.

I now have a Winchester 1894 trapper in .44 magnum. It has substantial recoil, but is very accurate out to 100 yards, and is just more satisfying; if I am going to get pistol-like ballistics, it is nice to have a substantial bullet to really knock things over when it finally arrives.

My hands down favorite carbine is the M1 Carbine though. It is such a pleasure to shoot, and very accurate at 100 yards.

I also had a Marlin 1894C in .357 mag, which was wonderful to shoot. I would recommend that highly. The whole idea of a pistol caliber rifle came from the frontier cowboy wild-west days, and so I think it only makes sense to experience it with a real wild west rifle.

September 8, 2008, 11:58 PM
Consider whether a rifle-caliber carbine would provide more power in a comparable sized package.

September 9, 2008, 12:16 AM
I have to say, I bought myself a Hi-Point .40 carbine for Father's Day, just because I've picked up some much .40 brass, I wanted something to shoot it with. And they were on sale.:rolleyes:

First time out, with the stock sights untouched, two targets with 50 rounds each. 10 yards.



May not be acceptable accuracy to some purists, but I just wanted a paper puncher and can shooter, and this is plenty good for me! Just something inexpensive for FUN! I've since put a red-dot on it, and it's a killer now.

This weekend I let my 11 y.o. grandson shoot it, and I nearly had to pry it away from him. He finally gave it up when the ammo ran out. I didn't care, it's so much fun watching a kid shoot! I need to videotape him sometime, especially with my 1911's.

September 9, 2008, 12:46 AM
M/Deckard you are dead right. I wouldn't use a 9mm on a big muley either unless thats all that I had. And it isn't.

But for the 90-125 lb deer we have here it works okay. Better yet are the 357 and 44 mags. Brian Pearce from Rifle magazine wrote an excelent article on 357 lever guns and mule deer and several other critters.

They DO NOT replace full power rifles for big game hunting in any way. They have the ability to "make do" but I would rather have a 30-06 if that was the only rifle I could own. I do love the versatility of my 357 Marlin with my handloads.

I do like shooting the light recoiling rifles and appreciate the low cost of ammo it takes to feed them. They have their own catagory for shooting irons just like flintlock and sidelock muzzleloaders. Its all good.

September 9, 2008, 12:57 AM
I doubt that a pistol-caliber carbine will serve much purpose not better filled by some other arm. That said, the best reason I've found for owning one is "They're FUN!".
Their utility as a defensive arm will depend on their caliber. While almost any pistol cartridge will pick up velocity when fired from a carbine barrel, the most meaningful velocity increases seem to accrue from those carbines chambered for pistol rounds already having adequate power in any arm.
Except perhaps for the lever action magnum pistol carbines, their maximum range is limited, but so is their mission. In any case, inside 100 or 150 yards, I'd far rather have a Marlin Camp Carbine in .45 ACP or a Rossi M1892 lever action in .45 Colt for defense than the .30 caliber carbine of WWII/Korea fame.

September 9, 2008, 05:16 AM
I think it's fair to say that blowback 9mm semis are a different sort of "pistol caliber carbine" than a .357 mag lever gun.

As for the storm, the stock trigger is a bit disappointing, but the stock sights are good and the rifle is freaky accurate. It easily whomps my SKS at 100 yards.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
September 9, 2008, 09:11 AM
but I need to convince myself it has a practical purpose and fills a niche in my collection.

You will not be able to, so don't try. Unless said "niche" is "just for fun".

General Geoff
September 9, 2008, 09:17 AM
Pistol caliber carbines are ENORMOUS fun, but they don't serve too much purpose that a real rifle doesn't cover in reality. Having a long gun you can use at a pistol range, though... it's certainly an ego booster to effortlessly get sub-2" groups on paper at 10 yards with a carbine. :D

So long story short, I recommend getting one, only because they're sooo much fun.

September 9, 2008, 09:18 AM
they're just plain fun!:D

I have a 9mm AR. w\sten mag block.

cheap to shoot,indoor range friendly.

what's not to like?


September 9, 2008, 09:20 AM
PCC's fill another niche, too...

Some folks just are not effective with handguns, and cannot handle the recoil/muzzle blast of say a .30-06/.308/7.62x54 or 12-Ga shotgun.

So, a PCC would probably work very well for them.

September 9, 2008, 09:34 AM
i'm probably the only person in the world with this problem, but my local range is "non-magnum handgun ammunition only"- the only allowable calibers are 22, 38, 9mm, 40, 45. that's it, not even 357mag. what that means is that if i want to shoot anything even resembling a rifle that isn't a 22, it's gotta use a pistol cartridge. limited options!

September 11, 2008, 03:04 AM
And that, children, is why we don't make our shot traps out of eggshells.

General Geoff
September 11, 2008, 07:50 AM
what that means is that if i want to shoot anything even resembling a rifle that isn't a 22, it's gotta use a pistol cartridge.

I'd be careful with that, a 9mm out of a carbine probably has more energy than a .357 Mag out of a handgun.

September 11, 2008, 07:59 AM
I had a Ruger PC9 and didn't like it and now have a Marlin .357 and love it. Ergonomically its only equal among my rifles is the cz carbine. Fun to shoot, cheap with .38 spcl. I regard it as my primary home defense gun as well.

September 11, 2008, 08:13 AM
do i hear pistol ammo fed carbine?

I suggest lever action, you gotta love lever action
Marlin make good models especially the cowboy models and since i couldnt afford one i got a rossi puma for half the price, it has the sick octogonal barrel and all i'd ask from the marlin guns, i have yet to find why its half the price!
i shoot 357 and 38

September 11, 2008, 08:41 AM
The closest thing I have is my M1 Carbine. That thing is tremendous fun.

Marlin 45 carbine
September 11, 2008, 09:51 AM
I have both Marlin Camp guns, the 9mm and .45acp and have got fairly good at hip and/or 'point' shooting with them - undeniably lots of fun. I go shooting with a buddy that has the Marlin lever .357 that thing is impressive at 100 yds and iron sights. he also owns a Kimber .45acp and keeps trying to get me to trade - I tell him he won't give me enough boot! I have a Colt 1911 .45acp also.
I installed a heavy Wolff recoil spring in my Camps and shoot +P in them. the .45 makes a satisfying 'whack' on steel discs at 100 yds.
PPC's would do as a 'bugout' gun but there are better choices IMO. for HD use they are great choices - particularly if a person lived in the rural area and may have to go outside the home. as good as a shotty IMO.
I took a feral/wild hog with my Camp .45 and hot loaded Golden Sabre - shot above the eye took off a big hunk of skull. at about 40 paces. down and thrashed for a minute or 2 but it was 'lights out'.

September 11, 2008, 10:02 AM
My 45 Colt Rossi can be loaded pretty darn stout. I'd hate to shoot some of the Ruger/TC loads I've made for it in a handgun. It's brutal enough on the shoulder of an 8lb rifle.

I need to chrony that load sometime to get an idea what kind of energy we're talking.

September 11, 2008, 10:18 AM
Will jump in here just to pass along something the fans (I'm one) of .357, .41, and .44 magnum rifles might enjoy.... because it simply shows how even the best of "experts" can develop a myopia about rifles, calibers and shooters.

Couple thousand years ago when I was actually a boy I wrote a letter to my hero, Jack O'Conner - The King Arthur of Hunting - and my question was why didn't someone make a rifle in .357 magnum. His response back to me was polite enough but clearly conveyed the message that a rifle in .357 would be pointless, no one would buy it and thus no manufacturer would ever make one. Just a few years later Marlin brought out their lever guns in the handgun calibers and the Public has since turned the .357 and .44 mag. rifles into a major hot commodity.

Methinks it's a very good for us mortals to remember that not even the great O'Conner was right all the time !!!


September 11, 2008, 10:35 AM
An AR-15 would be better for home defense. Don't consider one of these. The .223 does not have good penetration through walls yet it's still enough to stop a bad guy. Plus, it's a lot more intimidating.

For plinking, the pistol carbine could be alright but I'd go for the best for self defense. For now, save the money that you would have spent and get a nice AR.

September 11, 2008, 10:39 AM
I would say the dramatic availability of AR-15s in a variety of prices has severely encroached upon the pistol caliber carbine's former range.

I'm sure that someone will be along with a link to box o' truth pointing out that basically any gun will shoot through a rather large number of interior walls as well. The practical difference in overpenetration between 5.56x45 and 9x19 is less than you might think.

Remember, all you Elite Team Players out there, bullets go through walls!

September 11, 2008, 10:41 AM
My Hi-Point .40 carbine is so much fun, my grandson is now wanting his own for Xmas. Think I'll get him the 9mm with a red-dot scope, he's a good kid. And there's the ATI stock for the 9.

BattleChimp Potemkin
September 11, 2008, 10:52 AM
To me pistol caliber carbines are a minor force multiplier. They add range but specifically long range accuracy to a pistol cartrige, not to mention adding some velocity (read power) to a cartridge, extending it's effectiveness. Unfortunately, this extension is only minimal compared to a full rifle situation.

Up to 75 yards, Carbines are king in my mind. With a good 9x19 cartridge, you can do some serious damage to a target while maintaining accuracy (less collatoral damage, spelling?:D) with less stray shots. It also keeps the round's effectiveness longer as the more velocity added. The power your 9x19 pistol maintains at X yards is now X+Y.

They have a place, but it is VERY limited. We arent allowed SMGs (unless you are class 3) so volume of fire isnt even an option. Carbines dont add volume, but more precision and range of fire, not to mention compatibility. A CX4 matched with a Beretta 92 makes for a good urban SHTF loadout. Both have the same mags and the CX4 20 rounders available make for an awesome package, sort of a modern M1 carbine.

September 11, 2008, 11:12 AM
I have a Ruger PC4 (40SW), and I love it, its one of my HD guns. I live in a neighborhood where the houses are basically about 15' apart, so in defending my home, I would want to minimize over-penetration of walls, so I think its better suited than a rifle caliber. If you run out of ammo (or I suppose if it jams, but its never done that), its very solid and fairly heavy, so it would make a great club!

Several people have mentioned that pistol caliber carbines aren't any good out to 100 yards... that's not surprising, but I don't think that makes them useless. In HD situations, for instance, my whole property isn't even 50 yards long. I did actually scope it at one point, and depending on the ammo the bullet drop at 100 yards was 5"-8" (IIRC), and the groups (for me) were right around 4", just as a side note.

I also have a Marlin 1894C (.357m), and while the round has a lot more punch and useful range, I don't personally find a lever action to be a good HD gun. I want to be able to load it quickly in the dark, and unload it easily before I store it -- nothing like magazines for that.

September 11, 2008, 11:29 AM
I've got a couple of SMG's so I guess they sorta count as pistol caliber carbines. I enjoy them, they're fun to shoot. Some (like the MP5) are quite accurate out to a decent distance. I've hit stuff out to 200-250 yds just goofing off with the H&K but I wouldn't make bets at that distance. Thompsons are a lot of fun as are pistol caliber lever-carbines. I've owned a couple of Marlin Camp carbines, one in 9mm and a suppressed .45... I regret to this day selling the suppressed one. It sounded like a Red Ryder; the big 230 grain ball hitting the target was SIGNIFICANTLY louder than the report (and even the breach pop). I've never messed with the Ruger carbines or the Hi-Point or any of the others. I've got a 9mm upper for an AR/M16 and it's certainly fun as are the Calico 900-series. I had a 950 back in the mid-90's and other than loading that friggin' magazine it was fun to shoot.

But, for practicality's sake, I've never really been that struck by them. A 9mm pistol cartridge is moderately more effective in an SMG or carbine length bbl., it does have the benefit in the case of an SMG of multiple hits in rapid succession... Now, my MP5 weighs right at 7 lbs... Coincidentally my shorty-M4gery with a bunch of crap hanging off of it weighs just over a 1/2 lb more and is a helluva lot more effective as a weapon system. But, in the realms of plinking they are a helluva lot of fun!

September 11, 2008, 12:18 PM
As I've stated before, Pistol caliber carbines are a lot of fun to shoot. I own several, and have owned several others.

They have a niche. That niche is a urban and suburban environment. I would choose a pistol caliber carbine over a riot gun these days. I have sever friends that own gun for self-defense, but are not "gun people". They don't want a bunch of different guns, calibers, and magazines. For them a carbine in the same caliber and taking the same magazine makes a lot of sense. The longer barrel and stock increases the "effective" range of a pistol round to approximately the 100 yard mark.

HOWEVER when you compare the size and weight of a pistol caliber carbine to that of a intermediate caliber rifle / carbine, the pistol caliber comes up lacking. There is a reason our Spec-op troops now use the M4 over a sub-gun.

If you can afford both, by all means get both. The pistol caliber carbines are a hoot to shoot. If you ever let your wife shoot it, you will need another one. :what: (This is experience talking. :))

But if you can only afford 1 long arm, make it a real rifle caliber.

September 11, 2008, 12:24 PM
"If you ever let your wife shoot it, you will need another one. (This is experience talking. )"

Boy that's the truth... When my wife and I started dating she'd never shot a gun before. The FIRST gun she ever fired was the MP5... RUINED...RUINED I TELL YA!!!

32 Magnum
September 11, 2008, 06:25 PM
I have a Marlin Camp 9mm, Marlin Camp .45ACP, ActionArms/IMI Timberwolf .357/.38 SPL and an H&R Reising Model 60 .45ACP. Having shot all of them fairly extensively, I would confidently say that I wouldn't be embarassed to use any one of them for Home Defense or in field self defense. Accuracy/Hit potiential and cartridge power increase with carbines over pistols/handguns in the same caliber are great.
My experience is that 75 yards is about the maximum effective range for any of these, although heavier weight .357 slugs will still give 3" (combat acceptable) accuracy out to slightly over 100 yards. People here in Eastern PA take 200+ lb whitetails with .357 Magnum revolvers - don't see why a carbine in that caliber (which will increase muzzle velocity by 125 to 200 fps depending on the ammo) can't be used for hunting such critters.

September 11, 2008, 08:12 PM
I'd go with an AR15 over a pistol caliber carbine, much more effective round.

Wanta B
October 14, 2008, 01:27 PM
44 Mag,.45LC ruger or .454casull over the little 5.56 NATO against bear any day! Or tweeked out drugged up two leg...

Multiple targets? As has been said here earlier,practice.Check out the Western 3 Gun folks then tell me a leveraction is slow! Also with one rnd of magnum out of 16-20" carbine is good for 2-3 5.56.

Wanta B

October 14, 2008, 01:46 PM
I've wanted a Sub 2000 in Glock 17 configuration for a while now, but just haven't found one yet. I think it would be great fun at the range, but it would not be my first choice for home defense. When things go bump in the night I just prefer a pistol. I want one of these strictly for plinking, and the fact that it uses magazines that I already have makes it very practical.

October 15, 2008, 08:05 PM
Pistol caliber carbines are a good thing. I have a Marlin 1894C as a companion to either my 5" Model 27 or my 4" model 19 Smith & Wessons. For example, take a look at a 158 grain .357 Magnum fired out of a Marlin 1894C and compare the ballistics with a 30-30. Just might surprise you. When I am walking in hawg or B'ar country, I tote a Ruger Alaskan in .454 Casull / .45 Colt revolver and pack a 5# stainless steel 16" barrel Puma Model 92 chambered for same. The Puma is a great "Thumper" for brush country. Comes with High Viz sights and is a pleasure to carry, but you definitely know that you touched one off . Will also handle .45 Colt. Had a John Wayne large loop lever installed and I can spin cock this sucker like Rooster.

I take a Henry .22 Magnum rimfire carbine when packing my Ruger Single Six or S&W 351PD in the woods. When taking my 617-6 or my 317 Kit gun, I pack a Marlin 1897 CB or Ruger 10-22. Do not write off the pistol carbines. They can reach out there when neededand are more accurate than the hand guns by virtue of the extended sights.

One combo I do not have yet is a .45 ACP carbine to mate with my S&W 25-14 Classic revolver. I have been eye balling the Beretta Storm for this application. Would also go well with my Springfield Armory .45 ACP pistol.

October 16, 2008, 08:47 AM
take a look at the mechtech carbine uppers. they will use your 1911 frame and magazines, and have a good trigger you are already used to. with an EO tech on top they are quite fast for close range work.


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