S & W 627 pro series vs performance center


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jackslayer
September 8, 2008, 10:50 PM
I am looking at these two guns and would like to know if anyone knows the specific differances. I can get a 4" pro series for $787.50 or a 5" performance center for $1035.00. Aside from the one inch barrel differance what justifies the $250 price differance? Are the triggers the same? Is the gun the same aside from the barrel length? :confused:

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J32A2
September 8, 2008, 11:04 PM
The PC gun will come in a sweet aluminum case!

Stainz
September 9, 2008, 09:58 AM
I already had a JM PC627 V-Comp - and wanted a 4" non-comp, so it was a no-brainer here. I believe my PC 627 has such a sweet trigger because that's what they did back then - modern PC offerings don't always have a 'fine' trigger, so that isn't a plus. My 627 Pro came with a slicked trigger of sorts - I lowered the DA via spring changes and added a HiVis front sight to my 627 Pro quickly and easily due to the spring loaded front sight. I added the Miculek grip, too - about $865, inc s/h, s/t, etc. thus far in my 627 Pro, inc springs, sight, and grip. The PC gun would need the same goodies. My PC 627's metal box is in a closet... I think!

This is a 'best buy' from S&W this year - $111 more, MSRP, than a 4" 686+. I paid $761, inc s/t, for mine, adding the goodies as I found more recycling cans on the side of the freeway.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u307/Stainz_2007/IMG_0622.jpg

Stainz

Technosavant
September 9, 2008, 11:45 AM
The PC gun has non-MIM parts, a trigger overtravel adjustment, and the PC trigger work.

Either are great guns, but the Pro series 627 is a good bargain- not much more than the regular production model, but tweaked in the important places (cut for moons, chamfered charge holes, tweaked action).

The PC guns really are nice, but are they $250 nicer? Hard to say. I might say that they maybe are, but if budget is a concern at all, I would go Pro series and not look back.

Zeede
September 9, 2008, 01:14 PM
Ah, the 627 Pro is cut for moonclips? I guess the guy I talked to at Smith & Wesson doesn't know his products, he said only Performance Center revolvers were cut for moons.

This is good to know!

Cameron

Stainz
September 9, 2008, 03:48 PM
Don't get too thrilled over the moonclips - they are ammo-specific - and the eight spindly legs, even with RN bullets and the chamfered charge holes of the 627 Pro, don't expect the 'magic' of the 625s and moonclips - you'll be dissappointed. I keep a dozen clips loaded for my 627s, but usually just load ammo two rounds at a time - it seems easier. YMMV. The 625JM spoiled me for quick moonclip loads/unloads.

Believe me... the 627 Pro has a dished cylinder for moonclips, eased ejector star entries, a spring-loaded front sight, a modicum of a trigger job - and so-called 'Boss' mainspring (Wolff springs do help - stay with the full power main unless you go Fed-primers only.). To my mind, and I do have a sweet triggered JM PC627 V-Comp, the Pro is a deal.

Stainz

Technosavant
September 9, 2008, 03:55 PM
Ah, the 627 Pro is cut for moonclips? I guess the guy I talked to at Smith & Wesson doesn't know his products, he said only Performance Center revolvers were cut for moons.


The press releases at launch said they were, as well as testimonials from a few owners.

I would imagine that their moons are the same as those on the PC 627/327 models, and my 327 TRR8 works just great with moons. Granted, the 625 will be faster to reload- the short and fat .45ACP is just plain faster going into the cylinder- the target is bigger and it doesn't have to go as far. But it's still much faster than loose rounds.

twoclones
September 9, 2008, 04:13 PM
don't expect the 'magic' of the 625s and moonclips

Haven't used a 625 but I shoot a model 327 TRR8 and the moon clips aren't working anything like you see in Jerry Miculek's video. .38 special loads pretty easily but .357 can be down right difficult to get into the charge holes.

Zeede
September 9, 2008, 06:03 PM
I'm guessing that because you have 8 rounds to try and align at once, and they aren't held tightly in place by the moonclip, it's really slow getting all 8 aligned to slip in?

How about speedloaders then, or do they not make 8 round speedloaders?

Cameron

Technosavant
September 9, 2008, 10:13 PM
I don't think anybody has 8 round speedloaders. Something about not enough room between the rounds- the loaders themselves are too fragile.

I've not had any problems getting even .357 into the charge holes of my TRR8- there's only a small difference in length. If you can get .38spl into the cylinder, .357 isn't significantly harder. It just isn't as fast as .45ACP- Miculek himself can't match that speed with it. But that isn't necessarily a knock against it, it's just a statement of fact. Longer rounds don't push in as fast, period.

jackslayer
September 9, 2008, 10:44 PM
So is the trigger the same? What's the velocity differance between a 4" barrel vs a 5" barrel? Thanks for your comments

ArchAngelCD
September 10, 2008, 03:32 AM
No, the triggers aren't the same and neither are the hammers. Like said above, the Pro will have the normal MIM parts and the PC model won't. The PC model also gets a trigger job before it's sent out. The sights are different too. The PC model comes with a Gold Bead front sight. You also get 2 sets of grips with the PC model, wood and rubber. The Pro model comes with only rubber grips.

ALSO, according to the M627 Data Sheet (http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/other/ps/178014.pdf) the Pro model IS NOT cut for moonclips like the PC model is. I thought it was but the data sheet doesn't mention it.

Stainz
September 10, 2008, 06:46 AM
My Pro came dished for moonclips, period. It isn't as fast as the 625 - in any universe - in reloading with said moonclips. As to the short & fat remark re .45 ACPs... hey, I resemble that remark! Hmmm, could be why I like them?

The $48 difference in MSRP of the Pro vs production 627 is worth it, to me, at least, for just the spring-loaded front sight. Mine 'borrowed' my 625JM's HiVis the afternoon it arrived home. My older 627, a beautifully triggered JM PC627 V-Comp, has a black Patridge-style blade dovetailed in the front - and even the PC Shop doesn't offer a different sight. Of course, as said, it was made when they did great trigger jobs on all PC guns.

A friend's - and another range acquaintances - recent PC 5" 627s have not come with a 'great' trigger. I know S&W is concerned that all revolvers they sell will reliably pop all primers, thus the stout triggers.

Stainz

Master Blaster
September 10, 2008, 08:40 AM
MY PC 627 mfg 02/08 had standard springs and no trigger job, I had to do that myself.
The 627PC comes with tool steel lockwork instead of mim, it also has a ball lockup on the yoke, rather than the standard lockup on the end of the ejector rod. ITs a much more tightly fitted cylinder as well, so it MAY hold up to full power ammo longer 200,000 rounds instead of 150,000, not that most folks will shoot it that much. It also has a 5" barrel with a recessed target crown, the case, two sets of grips, cut and chamfered charge holes for moon clips.

DragonFire
September 10, 2008, 04:43 PM
The performance center guns are a better gun, but how much better than the pro series is a matter of opinion.

I have both and there are pros and cons to each. Both have decent triggers, PC is a little better. Both are cut for moonclips, use the same moonclips, and using Federal brass I have no problem loading either. I think I can reload them about as quick as I can an auto (yes, I had to practice alot to get quick). I haven't chrono'd them with the same load, but I woiuld think the 5" barrel gives around 50 fps more velocity.

I couldn't find an 8 shot speed loader so there was no way I would get the regular production gun, since they aren't cut for moonclips.

Neither are legal for IDPA, but I know two guys at my club are using them for IPSC with decent success.

I like both about equally. The 4" conceals better, but the 5" balances a bit better.

Stainz
September 10, 2008, 05:19 PM
Okay, here are my pair of 627s... my Jerry Miculek 2001-2 era PC627 V-Comp and my new 4" 627 Pro. I hate the V-Comp, it's blank or comp is another thing to clean, it's front sight isn't supported by even the PC Shop - and I hate it! It's trigger is to die for, however. I have a range 'friend' who wants my wife to put him on speed dial when I croak - so he can get it!

The 627 Pro is my favorite. It points beautifully - will take moonclips (Which work well with Starline brass, too.) - has a very good trigger - and looks neater!

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u307/Stainz_2007/IMG_0544.jpg

Stainz

ArchAngelCD
September 10, 2008, 06:35 PM
So basically, the PC gun is what all S&W guns should be and used to be before everything became so mechanized there's hardly a human hand that touches the gun before it leaves the factory.

Hawk
September 11, 2008, 08:40 PM
I caved.

Hawk "I mostly buy only older revolvers" actually picked up a 627 on the way home. So far I have to admit I'm pretty impressed - came with 2 grips, cut for moonclips but should work without if I'm guessing right, spiffy aluminum box, kind of two-tone and I can remove the slotted gizmo on the end.

What's most amazing is that the trigger is nicer than that on my older stuff - nice enough I'm a little concerned it'll light stuff that hasn't been made with Federal primers that pop just from seeing a firing pin. One hopes.

The hammer and trigger look to be forged and the front of the cylinder is burned - somebody evidently gave it a shakedown at the factory consisting of more than one round and I rather like that - should be a more common practice.

I imagine I've just disappointed the "no lock" crowd I run with but there's a certain charm in actually buying something with a warrantee.

jackslayer
September 11, 2008, 10:40 PM
That is one beautiful piece. How much did it set you back if you don't mind my asking. Sounds like it should shoot as nice as it looks. One day I'll be able to just swing by the gun store and pick up one more for the collection:evil: For now I'll just be green with envy

Hawk
September 12, 2008, 07:37 AM
^--- 1200 and change from a local shop known more for breadth of stock than low prices. He actually had two of 'em in the case along with a few other PC products.

Chuck Perry
September 12, 2008, 05:43 PM
Nice. A 627 is next on my list of toys after I master my imminent 325 NG.

Hawk
September 12, 2008, 08:05 PM
Nice. A 627 is next on my list of toys after I master my imminent 325 NG.

There was one at the shop I frequent - standard 325NG, not the Thunder Ranch thing, and it was sweet.

I'm really, really curious how the PVD holds up. Please post once you have a chance to wring it out.

In some of the "gross speculation" threads I've wondered out loud about PVD being immune to "turn rings". This shouldn't concern me but I am curious - the PVD on the old STI Legacy seemed impervious to normal wear (I do not have first hand experience with that product - it's what I heard).

Chuck Perry
September 13, 2008, 09:18 AM
You got me with "PVD", never heard of it! Are you referring to the coating applied to the cylinder, or?

Hawk
September 13, 2008, 02:19 PM
Physical vapor deposition - some razz-ma-tazz finish. It was about a 200.00 bump over the standard finish on STI's Legacy.

I've often wondered if a PVD finish would resist cylinder marking and that's what S&W says is on the 325 cylinder. I don't have any reason to believe it won't pick up a line as fast as anything else - just speculatin' is all. But I guess we'll all know pretty soon. ;)

FWIW, the 627 acquited itself real well being shot for the first time this AM - best DA results I'v ever had. Reliability is still a bit of a question mark as the range only had Federal red box - no S&B or Fiocchi. It tore through the Federal and my handloads with nary a hitch but the "hard primer" stuff will have to wait.

Chuck Perry
September 13, 2008, 04:20 PM
Ok, now I get it. I'll let you know how it does.

Shrinkmd
April 2, 2009, 08:44 PM
Dumb question, but just to be sure:

The 627 Pro takes moonclips as well as just feeding them in the old fashioned way, correct? I'm referring to Model 163357

And for range purposes, would you prefer it over a standard 686. For keeping in the nightstand, I'd certainly want the extra two rounds. But otherwise, if you are happy with your 686 4", what else does this revolver offer (besides having another gun, that is. As compared to getting another caliber, etc)

9mmepiphany
April 2, 2009, 11:22 PM
if i could get in into the state i'd get the Pro...but that's because i'd be using it for competition.

i'd be shipping it off to Apex Tactical who would replace the hammer and Cylinder as well as all the MIM parts anyway

so there'd be no reason to start with all the extra value parts

Stainz
April 3, 2009, 06:38 AM
The 627 Pro, SKU 178014, has an MSRP of $1,059 now, while the least expensive 4" L-frame .357M, the 620 - SKU 164401 - is $893. That makes the 627 Pro maybe $120-$130 more OTD than the least expensive 4" L-frame at a decent store. You bet it's worth it!

The 627 Pro is dished for moonclips, but you can use it without them, which I frequently do. I have found the OEM moonclips, actually made by Ranch Products, fit Starline Brass best. I have 1k Starline brass on b/o. The moonclips are cheaper directly from Ranch Products - $50/50 or $75/100 delivered. Some folks get $15+ for a bag of five!

BTW, The SKU 163357 is the standard production 627 and it does not come dished for moonclips, with a special barrel, eased charge holes, or with a spring-loaded front sights - and MSRP is $1,003 - only $56 less than the Pro. It weighs .8 oz more, too... ohhhh!

Stainz

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