Convince me to get a M1A Scout Squad over a DSA FAL.


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dodging230grainers
September 9, 2008, 12:01 AM
As the title says, convince me to spend another $500 to get a brand new Springfield Armory M1A Scout Squad over a DSA STG-58.


Well, let's hear your arguments for either side...

Keep it civil, I understand fanboyism runs strong when it comes to .308 Battle Rifles...thanks! :D

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chriso
September 9, 2008, 12:06 AM
First off just look at the M1a compared to the FAL shouldn't that be enough? second of all It's more accurate out of the box, third JUST LOOK AT THE M1A COMPARED TO THE FAL!!!

They are both proven firearms but i personally think the FAL is hideous and wouldn't even consider owning one.

Z-Michigan
September 9, 2008, 12:06 AM
It's not quite apples to apples with an STG-58 - that is the parts kit gun that DSA makes. Their mostly/all new gun is the SA-58 that costs more like $1600+. The STG is supposed to be good, but it's not an all-brand-new-parts gun, to my knowledge.

Anyway, the M1A should be somewhat more accurate. In any other respect I would get a DS Arms FAL, whether the STG or SA version. All depends what you want. I personally think FAL's look a lot cooler, but that's just opinion and the M1A has lots of fans too.

Oh, quality FAL magazines are a lot cheaper than quality 20rd M1A (M14) magazines, for now at least.

For Freedom
September 9, 2008, 12:15 AM
Moderators can we merge this with his Glock Talk thread?

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=920521

thx.:uhoh::scrutiny:

:evil:

dodging230grainers
September 9, 2008, 12:17 AM
I just try post on several forums to get a broader range of answers, as not all members of certain forums are members on others.

keep it coming!

For Freedom
September 9, 2008, 12:19 AM
I know, I was just jerking your chain. :)

Deer Hunter
September 9, 2008, 12:21 AM
My FAL shoots 2 inches with quality ammo. It's an STG58 built up by DSA.

I didn't buy it to shoot off the bench all day, though.

mljdeckard
September 9, 2008, 12:23 AM
I got an M1A used, with (I THINK it was) the SA 2nd Gen rail mount, and SA dedicated optics. (The scope was fantastic, I put it on a different rifle.) Take it to the range, and the first problem is, because the scope is mounted so dang high, and there is so little room to move it back and forth, I have to lean way into it to get a correct scope picture. After three shots, I had blood in my eyebrow, where the scope kept banging me. This means, I need a scope with an adjustable comb, or a custom stock with a raised comb to be able to shoot it from the correct posture. Ok, I guess I'll have to worry about that later.

So, I used the iron sights, UNDER the scope mount. after repeatedly shooting, not even being on the paper, and raising the rear sight higher and higher, I ran out of room. The scope mount was so low, I couldn't adjust the iron sights, it cut into the sight picture. Couldn't use the scope, couldn't use the sights.

Also, I wasn't shooting it any faster than I would shoot a bolt rifle anyway. The 20 rd mags and semi-auto were absolutely no advantage to me.

I sold it and bought the 700 VS in .308. Maybe one day I'll try again, but I'll probably build a AR-10 if I feel I need a semi-auto battle rifle. The M1A is what it is, but if you want a scoped, precision rifle, you will need to buy one of the higher models that already come with the correct stock, or plan on doing a LOT of work on it to get it there.

dodging230grainers
September 9, 2008, 01:12 AM
I don't care too much about pinpoint accuracy, however I will be doing alot of shooting with the iron sights.

If one was to shoot mainly with iron sights, the M1A might be the best choice of all the MBR's, no?

I am also drawn to the M1A because I get legendary M1 Garand iron sight accuracy in a compact package (m1a 18" scout).

The FAL is still a legend in its own though.

Bwana John
September 9, 2008, 02:37 AM
I couldnt decide on either... so I got both.

Three 18" FAL's, and one 21" M1-A.:cool: The three FAL's cost about the same as the M-1A, but the M1-A is three times more accurate.

Remember you are losing sight radius with the shorter M1-A barrel.

Ash
September 9, 2008, 06:10 AM
My m1a was not a whole lot more accurate than my FAL, neither meeting the accuracy of my Garand. The m1a was, on average, 1.5-2 MOA. The FAL is about the same.

I find it ironic that these days, being all new is considered a plus. There was a time that the goal was to get as much USGI in an M1a as possible, that the more commercial parts the rifle had, the less desirable it was. The STG-58 parts are new surplus parts, which to me makes them more desirable than the SA-58 parts, but that's just me.

If you want a scout, get one. The FAL will do the job nicely, but the M1a will likely be a prettier set-up if you keep to walnut and steel. Get into the range of the "modernized" m1a and the FAL quickly becomes a beauty queen.

Ash

H2O MAN
September 9, 2008, 06:37 AM
USGI, SEI and some Chinese M14 parts are better than reproduction M1A parts.
The Scout Squad is a great rifle, but I would either make it a BUSH rifle and shoot irons
or install an UltiMAK rail and use a forward mounted optic - I like the Aimpoint Micro red dot.

http://www.athenswater.com/images/Mod-1_T-1.jpg



Ash Get into the range of the "modernized" m1a and the FAL quickly becomes a beauty queen.

Safe Queen, the FAL becomes a SAFE QUEEN.

Ash
September 9, 2008, 07:10 AM
In my experience, the $4,000 rifle or shotgun stays in the safe and the Mossberg or FAL go out into the field.

Ash

H2O MAN
September 9, 2008, 08:49 AM
There is no such thing as a $4000 scout.

Ash In my experience, the $4,000 rifle or shotgun stays in the safe

Do you have either of these?

HorseSoldier
September 9, 2008, 12:07 PM
You have too much money, so throw it away on the M1A.

Well, that's the only logic I can see for picking the one over the other.

AndyC
September 9, 2008, 12:33 PM
Buy whichever one you don't already have; I have a FAL and one day want an M1A - and then another FAL, and then.... ;)

The Wiry Irishman
September 9, 2008, 12:38 PM
I thought you already had a DSA?

dodging230grainers
September 9, 2008, 12:43 PM
Sold the DSA a while back for an AR-15. Now its time for a .308.

H2O MAN
September 9, 2008, 12:56 PM
HorseSoldier You have too much money, so throw it away on the M1A.

Or... you have little money, piss it away on an FAL.

How can anyone have too much money?

Dravur
September 9, 2008, 12:56 PM
JUST LOOK AT THE M1A COMPARED TO THE FAL!!!

I did... I got the FN FAL. There is something very classy about the FN. I'm not saying the M1 is a bad gun, but hauling a 2x4 around that has been inletted for a gun is not my idea of fun. Although, I do want to get a Scout MI sometime.

But, to my taste, the FN is hands above the M1 in the looks dept.

D Boone
September 9, 2008, 01:22 PM
I just held a DSA FAL with folding stock the other day... It changed my mind about getting one, just didn't fit me or seem to handle well. I already have an Norico M14 clone, but think I might go G3 or cetme next.

DMR
September 9, 2008, 02:32 PM
H2O MAN

Posts: 939 There is no such thing as a $4000 scout.
http://www.athenswater.com/images/Mod-1_T-1.jpg

It is easy to pump up the cost on these rifles. Depending on use the edge might go to the more expensive M-14 for accuracy and gun smiths availible to "tune" it. I don't like the pictured configuration for a few reasons, but if it meets your needs go for it.

Base EBR price: $2298.95
M1A Scout-Squad Rifle, $1,549.95 (GilbertsGuns.com)
SAGE EBR Stock, $749.00 (US Tactical Supply)

Pictured add ons: $1129.95
AimPoint Micro T-1, $584.95 (SWFA)
SureFire Scout Light Kit 01, $545 (Surefire.com)

total: $3428.90 + shipping, transfer fees and labor if you don't put it together yourself.


DSA FAL: $1515.95, a little more if you want the folding stock.
STG58 Austrian FAL Carbine Rifle: MSRP $1200
SA58 FAL Extreme Duty Scope Mount, MSRP $79
FAL Rail Interface Handguard Full Length, MSRP $239.95

AimPoint Micro T-1, $584.95 (SWFA)
SureFire Scout Light Kit 01, $545 (Surefire.com)

total: $2648.90 + shipping, transfer fees and labor if you don't put it together yourself.



Me I have a slick built FAL Carbine for less then $1000:cool:

There is a PolyTech M-14 in the local shop for less then $900 that keeps calling me though:uhoh:

The Wiry Irishman
September 9, 2008, 02:49 PM
Sold the DSA a while back for an AR-15. Now its time for a .308.

Sell the AR-15, get both the FAL and the M1A.

geekWithA.45
September 9, 2008, 04:00 PM
You'll be well served with either.

Me, I chose the m1a scout.

Originally, I had a traditional scope on the SA 2nd gen mount, but honestly, that's not the scope the rifle wants. It just doesn't fit or work right on what was designed to be an iron sighted rifle at its core.

Spring for genuine scout scope, either a Leupold or a Burris, and you'll find that a magical synergy is unleashed.

Grayrider
September 9, 2008, 04:58 PM
I would say DSA FAL, but of course am biased. Do not get me wrong, I like M1As and would not sell my remaining one. However, I prefer the ergonomics of the FAL. It is supremely reliable in all conditions, and is a true military grade battle rifle rather than a commercial reproduction. The STG is made from often new (or at least never issued) Steyr and other contract parts, on our mil-spec receiver. Actually our manufacturing tolerances are tighter than original specifications due to modern manufacturing techniques. DSA makes and sells FALs to military contracts around the world, and the rifle civilians get from us is essentially the same thing save for the extra selector position or shorter barrels that some military customers require. The FAL is easier to support in the long run with parts very common, cheap magazines, and many, many accessories. I had a Scout and sold it for a SOCOM, which I then sold upon getting my first SA58. I have never looked back. You cannot go wrong with DSA FAL, and the STG is one of the best bargains out there in a battle rifle.

John

H2O MAN
September 9, 2008, 05:25 PM
There is no such thing as a $4000.00 Scout.

You could spend $4000.00 and have Ron Smith build for you a true
military spec MK14 SEI Mod 0/1 battle rifle if that's what you want.

I prefer the ergonomics, accuracy and reliability of the MK14 SEI rifle.

dodging230grainers
September 9, 2008, 06:04 PM
Ok, so what is so great about the Leupold 2.5x28mm sitting on the foward mount of the M1A scout? Just a good all purpose scope or something? No eye relief or cheek weld issues?

I like the idea of the factory foward mount. Obviously with the FAL, the DSA dust cover mount has you set.

kcmarine
September 9, 2008, 06:11 PM
If you get the FAL, the terrorists win.


Eh. Just kidding. :P

H2O MAN
September 9, 2008, 06:21 PM
LOL !! :evil:

HorseSoldier
September 9, 2008, 07:08 PM
I prefer the ergonomics, accuracy and reliability of the MK14 SEI rifle.

We know.

We also know you stick your fingers in your ears and hum loudly anytime anyone says anything non-flattering about the M14 and its commercial clones. Since you're claims aren't based on much actual factual information, I'm not sure how much you bring to the discussion anymore.

H2O MAN
September 9, 2008, 07:39 PM
That's an interesting opinion you have there HS.

Please note:

Your reasoning is flawed and your assumption is incorrect.
I speak only of what I own and what I have confirmed to be factually true.

We know you are anti-M14 and we also know that you don't know that much about the platform.

Ash
September 9, 2008, 08:51 PM
H2O MAN, I own a real SVD. You care to wager which one is worth more? Care to wager which one would sell for equal or more than is invested into it? I take mine out to shoot, just as I take my Valmet O/U shotgun.

I also take my FAL. I also used to take my M1a. But for long-range accuracy, I have my bolt guns (including a nice 7mm Mag). For 400 yards or less and semi-auto, I have the FAL or SVD or PSL or Garand or SVT-40. For 30 yards or less I have numerous shotguns. Since I have all my bases covered, I have no need for a rifle that was marginally more accurate than an FAL at three times the cost. Add to that the fact that my bolt actions are more accurate than even most tuned M1a's, there seems little reason to go that route, though I don't mind folks who do.

Ash

H2O MAN
September 9, 2008, 09:05 PM
Ash I have no need for a rifle that was marginally more accurate

Ash, was is the key word in your antiquated description.

Ash
September 9, 2008, 10:22 PM
No, there was no reason to blow another 3 grand to have a rifle that was still less accurate than my bolt guns. In short, the M1a filled no role better than my other arms. WAS is used because I no longer own said M1a, therefore because it was superfluous, it became past tense. In any case, folks are welcome to like the M1a. It just wasn't for me.

Ash

H2O MAN
September 9, 2008, 10:26 PM
Thanks for sharing your experience.

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