Help me identify Belgian Clement 1910 .25 look-alike/copy!


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Owen Meany
September 9, 2008, 01:00 PM
Hi all,

Below is a picture of a REAL Clement 1910 .25 (photo is not mine):

http://www.armsbid.com/8webpix/27.jpg

Now, the gun I want to identify is at a local gunshop. I looked at it this morning and almost bought it, because initially I thought it was a Clement 1910 like the one above and I've been looking for one. Actually, for all I know, the gun I looked at may indeed be a Clement 1910. But when looking it over, I noticed a few differences that made me suspicious.

Okay, here are the "red flags" that caught my attention and made me doubt whether the piece I examined this morning is a real Clement:

1) In the photo of the Clement 1910 above (and in all other photos of Clement 1910s that I've seen), you see that the sides of the slide are grooved in two directions, forming a kind of knurled, or checkered, look - in other words, a bunch of little, tiny raised squares. Quite distinctive-looking. However, the gun I looked at this morning had conventional, vertical grooving (serrations) on the slide.

2) In the photo above, you see where the serial number is on the front of the gun (Not the one on the frame, but the one directly above it on what would be the barrel)? Well, in exactly the corresponding position of the gun I looked at, but on the right side, there was rather crudely stamped "NORMA WEISBACH" in letters about the height of the serial numbers in the pic above. The apparent crudeness of this stamped inscription was unusual in that it seemed out of keeping with the high quality and nice fit and finish of the rest of the gun. I couldn't help thinking it looked like an importer's mark or something.

3) In the photo below (again, the pic below shows a REAL Clement - not the gun I looked at), there is "AUTOMATIC PISTOL CLEMENT'S PATENT" on the top of the gun. The gun at the shop this morning did not have anything written in this location.

http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20c/clement%201909%20cal%20.25-03.jpg

Other than the above differences, the gun looked EXACTLY like the Clement 1910 photos I've posted here. The grips looked like authentic, original Clement grips like the ones in the pictures, but if this was a copy, then I figured that that really doesn't prove anything. The serial numbers were all matching, and were in the same places as the ones on the Clement pictures above.

As I've said, the piece was very well made and the fit and finish was excellent. I'd say it was in "Very Good" condition, and they wanted $350.00 for it.

You guys are my last hope; I've been all over the Internet searching, and have turned up absolutely nothing to help me with this.

Can anybody tell me if you've heard of or seen Clement .25s that didn't say "Clement" anywhere on the gun, and/or that had the enigmatic "NORMA WEISBACH" marking like the one I saw today?

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Owen Meany
September 9, 2008, 10:38 PM
Nobody knows nuthin'? :(

I know this is not a common gun, but there have to be at least some knowledgeable collector types on this forum!

Please, everyone, I'm desperate here. The gun is sitting at the local shop, and I don't want it to slip away if it is indeed a Clement.

At the same time, I'm not sure I want to spend $350.00 on a no-name copy, even if it is in good condition.

Here's hoping that some pocket pistol enthusiast will happen by and enlighten me!

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