Shooting Jacketed after Cast?


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Hiaboo
September 9, 2008, 11:50 PM
Problems with doing this? I can imagine it affecting the barrel or soemthing especially fi there's been leading but.? I am not really clear on that.. HOpe someone will clear it up for me. Thanks.

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lgbloader
September 10, 2008, 12:40 AM
I have heard that it will clean out some of the leading in your barrel if you have any. I never really intentially tried it.

THR???

saltydog452
September 10, 2008, 01:03 AM
I used to do it kinda regular. That does not mean that it was a brilliant decision.

I had two Colts, a Python and a SAA NF. Unknown to me, the bores were Colt tight.

The shooting mags, Keith, Skelton, Jordan, Grinnell, etc., wrote about 1500 fps speed with 158 grain SWCs in 357 flavor.

Beleiving the printed word of these gents to be the equivelent of tablets from the Mount, my regular reloads were pretty much a hatfull of 2400 over a CCI Magnum priner, toped off with a lead 158 SWC.

Cleaning the Colts was a chore and the Lewis Lead Remover was a handy gadget. The smell of Hoppes # 9 lingers, especially when it is on the carpet. That does not do a great deal to improve your domestic tranquility.

Speers half jacket, still over a bunch of 2400, was used to clean the bore of these Colts.

Later in life, I made the aquaintence of a Quality Control Inspector who had the tools and ability to accurately measure the ID on the barrels on the Colts.

The SAA NF was .3555. The Python was .356. Maybe it was the other way around, but, the lead 158 SWCs through each made a mess inside the barrels that was easily cleaned with jacked bullets.

salty

35 Whelen
September 10, 2008, 01:28 AM
I've done it many times with a 38, 357, 45 Colt and 45ACP with absolutely no harmful effects.
35W

jcwit
September 10, 2008, 01:59 AM
Short question. Why is it so important to clean all the grease out of a barrel before shooting but people recommend shooting a jacketed bullet to take the lead out. Just wondering.

wankerjake
September 10, 2008, 02:16 AM
I was told by a law enforcement officer not to shoot jacketed bullets after lead bullets. If there is a buildup of lead in the barrel, the hard copper jacketed bullet can potentially make the barrel expand as it passes over the lead buildup, instead of just pushing the lead out of the barrel. He made it sound like there usually has to be a significant amount of buildup for this to happen, but I guess I don't need to find out that badly so I clean my barrels between lead and jacketed.
-Jake

Shoney
September 10, 2008, 06:51 AM
I am aquainted with an engineer from one of the international bullet manufacturers. He claimed that shooting jacketed after lead does clean a little lead out, but moreover. they iron the lead flat in the barrel so it looks nice, but isn't clean. The ironed on lead is harder to remove, and can produce damage to the barrel if it s not cleaned before shooting lots of jacketed.

Walkalong
September 10, 2008, 08:59 AM
You should fix the leading problem. It should not be necessary to "shoot" any lead out.

The Bushmaster
September 10, 2008, 10:49 AM
Ever sense I started owning and shooting firearms I was told to never shoot a jacketed bullet after shooting lead bullets unless you cleaned the firearm first insuring that all the lead was removed. As was stated before. It flattens the lead out rather then removing it and makes it harder to clean out and can cause damage to the barrel over time...

Hiaboo
September 10, 2008, 11:24 AM
The reason why I'm asking is because i started shooting lead out of my 30-30 and I still have some jacketed rounds left and would like to use those jacketed rounds up but..? I geuss I'll give the barrel a scrub just in case.

rcmodel
September 10, 2008, 12:36 PM
I has long been common practice with handguns to shoot a few jacketed loads following a lead shooting session. We did it in the Army AMU unit I gunsmithed for with 1911 Match guns, and K-38 Target revolvers all the time.
Air-gaging the barrels indicated no change in them until they became worn out from thousands of rounds.

IMHO: Unless the barrel is severely leaded, it will not harm a barrel.
And I doubt it would, even then.

As for ironing the lead into the barrel and making cleanup more difficult?
I don't believe that either.

A good cleaning with Hoppies #9 until clean, followed by JB Bore Paste will prove it.
There is nothing there for the JB to remove!

The only caveat I have is, there is some reason to believe it could contribute to the forcing cone cracking problems with S&W K-frame .357's.
A heavy lead build-up in the forcing cone puts extra stress on it when jacketed Magnum loads are fired through it.

As for high-power rifles?
If there is visible leading, I would clean it first before firing full power jacketed loads.

rcmodel

Sunray
September 10, 2008, 04:33 PM
"...give the barrel a scrub just in case..." A 'just in case' cleaning has never caused anybody any grief.

scrat
September 10, 2008, 05:05 PM
No problems. in fact i found just the opposite. First thing its important to shoot cast bullets correctly. Meaning shoot the correct sized bullet to match the barrel. This may involve slugging the barrel. Then having the proper lube. As far a lube i have tried so many different types of lube to where i have gone full circle. Currently the only lube i use is lee liquid alox. Which seems to work the best. Now with this i have shot a lot of cast bullets. Then i have also shot jacketed ammo through the same gun. What i have found when returning home is a fairly clean barrel. No signs of lead fouling or copper fouling. Just the normal amount of dirt that would have to be cleaned. So with what i am doing im happy. Accuracy is there and cleaning is marginal

easyrider6042004@yahoo.ca
September 10, 2008, 05:35 PM
Two questions:
1. How many rounds of jacketed bullets are needed to clean a slightly leaded barrel?

2. Will plated bullets clean barrels as effectively as jacketed?

rcmodel
September 10, 2008, 05:42 PM
I usually shoot at least a cylinder or mag full.

So, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, or 13. :D

I would think plated would work as well but haven't tried it.
If they are not leaving lead behind themselves, they should work just as well anyway.

rcmodel

easyrider6042004@yahoo.ca
September 10, 2008, 05:45 PM
rcmodel,

thanks for quick reply. because i'm really cheap, will one or two jhp rounds clean?

scrat
September 10, 2008, 05:47 PM
depends on the cast bullet. if your using the correct size cast bullet with a lube that properly matches the powder and load your using then yes. but if your using a cheap load with a lot of powder the gases around the bullet then no.

easyrider6042004@yahoo.ca
September 10, 2008, 06:10 PM
Scrat, I size my .357 bullets to .357, then TL with alox. Loaded on top of 4.3 grn 700X or Titegroup. Use this on all my 357 magnum revolvers. I haven't slugged any of them. I get some leading in the first inch of rifling after about 200 rds, hardly any in the barrel throat.

Guess I'll just have to shoot lead and see how many JHPs it'll take to remove leading. Tnx.

scrat
September 10, 2008, 06:12 PM
well that may be your problem a .357 should be sized to .358 not .357 As far as the alox. Works good for me.

scrat
September 10, 2008, 06:15 PM
Loads for .357 Magnum:


(Note: These are near maximum loads, you should use 10% less to start.)
(See note on Powders below or read all about various Powders.)
Bullets are .357" for jacketed and .358" for lead in diameter. Due to different barrel lengths, type of bullet, seating depth, primer type and other factors, you may not get near the FPS charted. It is just a guide and the reason you should start under these charges and work up.
Taken from the reloading pages of mdsmith

check here
http://www.dixieslugs.com/357mag.htm

here
http://www.reloadammo.com/357loads.htm

rcmodel
September 10, 2008, 06:23 PM
+1

.357" lead bullets need to be sized .358" or you are probably going to get leading no matter what you do.

For even better accuracy results, slug your cylinder throats and size to match them.

Even if they slug .359" or so, you will get better results if you size .359", regardless of the bore size.

rcmodel

easyrider6042004@yahoo.ca
September 10, 2008, 06:26 PM
Scrat and RC, Tnx. Will order .358 sizing die.

scrat
September 10, 2008, 06:28 PM
easy rider. Your accuracy in shooting is going to improve so much. Less blow by on the bullets resulting in lower or even no leading. Your truely going to see an improvement. Well worth it.

easyrider6042004@yahoo.ca
September 13, 2008, 03:40 AM
Ok, here's my take on firing jacketed/plated bullets after lead.

All I can say is, it worked for me today.

The gun: S&W 6" 686

Number of lead bullets fired: roughly 200 .38 spl reloads (Lee TL 158 grn cast with WW over 3.7 to 4.3 grain 700X), and approximately 100 .357 (same bullet over 10.0 grains Blue Dot)

Moderate leading within first inch of the barrel, as well as some slight streaks almost the full 6" length, that couldn't be scrubbed out with a common bronze brush.

Number of plated bullets: 6 (Rainier 125 grain PHP over 5.1 grain Titegroup)

Result: Visual inspection revealed that the barrel was CLEAN. I have not run a clean patch through it yet but my barrel has never looked cleaner.

Next step is to determine how many Plated or Jacketed rounds are really needed to scrub leading. So next time, I'll fire one PHP at a time and check to see how well its done its job. A couple of PHPs might be all that's required.

Griz44
September 13, 2008, 03:59 AM
I will jump in with the crowd that says to size the bullet properly. I cast my own for 45 acp and use Lee Liquid Alox and Rooster both. The Lee works the best. Even after a 500 round session, there is not enough leading in the barrel so see unless you really get up close. Properly sized and lubed, cast to the correct hardness and not driven to escape velocity will result in rounds that do not lead the barrel in the first place. Please let us know how it all comes out!

MAGNUM44
September 13, 2008, 05:39 AM
i remember seeing a few years ago round patches made out of brass i think that were sold to use to remove the lead from the barrels of guns but i dont remember what company made them if anyone knows please post thanks

Iron Sight
September 13, 2008, 09:21 AM
"i remember seeing a few years ago round patches made out of brass i think that were sold to use to remove the lead from the barrels of guns but i dont remember what company made them if anyone knows please post thanks"

Could be you are thinking of this tool?

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/productdetail.aspx?p=21587

Hiaboo
September 13, 2008, 02:17 PM
OK GUYS.. I went ahead and scrubbed my barrel a little bit (it needed some cleaning anyway) and didn't really see any leading so I went ahead and shot my full power jacketed rounds, no problems and it looks clean and GTG... I would suppose there would be problems if there's severe leading in the barrel. In that case I would have to say that something bad could happen but??

20nickels
September 14, 2008, 02:53 AM
Two top pistol competition shooters I know shoot "cleaners" after practice sessions and have been doing so for many many years.

SlamFire1
September 14, 2008, 05:54 PM
Short question. Why is it so important to clean all the grease out of a barrel before shooting but people recommend shooting a jacketed bullet to take the lead out. Just wondering

Leading is unlikely to create a bore obstruction. Hatcher's Notebook has a chapter on barrel obstructions and a picture of a shattered 03. The owner shot the rifle with a barrel full of grease.

I purchased a case of Aquila 32 S&W long. The bullets were dead soft, leaded badly, and in 50 rounds or less you could not see rifling.

Cleaned all that lead out by shooting jacketed bullets. Works great. I always finish with jacketed after shooting cast bullets. Gets the lead out..

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