Dad's gun


September 9, 2008, 10:54 PM
My dad told me of a revolver that he once had that he said was more powerful than a .45lc, and I've never heard anyone else mention the caliber or either they called it something else. (Dad did have a habit of using unusual names for things.) He said it was a .41 Swiss. Didn't say wether it was a Colt, Smith, or what. Anyone know what he was talking about?

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September 9, 2008, 11:21 PM
Are you sure he didn't say ".41 Smith" as in, the Smith & Wesson Model 57, chambered in .41 Magnum?

September 9, 2008, 11:30 PM
The internets availed this knowledge:***731***702***8344***9261***

A rifle cartridge, methinks. It is possible you misheard him, as nova said.

September 9, 2008, 11:30 PM
Google reveals:

The Model 1867/78 Vetterli Cartridge

In 1867, the Swiss government adopted the blackpowder 10.4x38 cartridge for military use. Although the 10.4x38 was one of the few rimfire cartridges to be adopted for military service, it's 313gr. bullet and muzzle velocity of over 1400fps, easily marched the performance of it's contemporaries. Amongst the rifles chambered to use the 10.4x38 were the Milbank-Amsler Series of Rifles, the 1867 Peabody, and the Vetterli series of rifles.

The original round had a copper-zinc case and a round nose lead bullet. However, in 1871, and again 1878, the bullet was replaced with an improved paper patched round. Despite improvements, bullet performance changed little. Then, in 1890, the Swiss replaced the blackpowder in the 1867-71/78 cartridge with a semi-smokeless powder know as P.C. 89.

Thanks to Leif Danielsson and Paul Pelfrey for the picture

Officially, the 10.4x38 cartridge was replaced in 1890 by the 7.5 Swiss GP90 cartridge. However, the 10.4x38 remained in use for many years after that. As Swiss Soldiers served, along with their issued weapon, until the age of 42, it is likely many Vetterlis remained in service well into the 20th century.

Currently, no one is producing the 10.4x38 Rimfire round, except, perhaps, as a special order. However, it is possible to buy formed brass from Buffalo Arms or reshape brass for use in Vetterlis which have been converted to center-fire.

M1867 M1867-71/78
Cartridge 10.4x38 Rimfire 10.4x38Rimfire
Case Length 1.5" 1.5"
Rim Diameter .622" .622
Head Diameter .539" .527"
Neck Diameter .444" .45:
Bullet 313gr Round nose Lead 312gr Paper-Patched Lead
Bullet Diameter .425" .419"
Bullet Length 1.02" .996"
Powder Measure 57-58.5gr Blackpowder 19.3-22.4 P.C.89
Muzzle Velocity 1427 fps 1427 fps
Maximum Chamber pressure ~20,000psi ~20,000psi

September 10, 2008, 07:43 PM
41 swiss was rimfire and made by rem till ww2.I am converting 2 to center fire and use 348 win cases.the rifle copied the 73 win loading carrier.It is a bottle neck cartridge.:uhoh::rolleyes:

September 13, 2008, 12:06 AM
I was able to find this out also. The first military revolver made in Switzerland was for their cavalry in 1871. The 1878 version fired a .41cal, 193gr, lead bullet from a rimfire cartridge at around 600 fps. It was later converted to a centerfire 7.5mm cartridge.
Thanks everyone for the help and info.

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