Witness .45 Match & Cast


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ultramag44
September 10, 2008, 01:36 AM
Gentlemen:

The results are in. The Tanfoglio Match .45 digests & loves home cast bullets! :)

It requires a round nose cast bullet. The H&G 68bb (a SWC type designed for the 1911) will not feed or reliably chamber in the Tanfoglio Match .45 ).

The LEE 228 grain roun nose w/ 2 lube grooves works perfectly. cast of WW, the bullet weighs 225 grains. Lyman bullet sizing die in RCBS Luber/sizer is .452. Lube is 50/50 type.

A taper crimp die set to reduce mouth diameter to .471 (spec calls for a max of .473) insures no hang-ups or ftf's.

Load is 5.6 of HERCO. After firing, barrel is perfectly clean, not even powder residue. I may cut lube back to one groove. Magazine sides, feed ramp & brass are sticky w/ lube residue after firing. Anyone have any comments or experience w/ cutting lube by 50%?

10 shots from rest

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q228/ultramag44/100_0890.jpg

10 shots off hand

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q228/ultramag44/100_0870.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q228/ultramag44/100_0853.jpg

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kitsapcharly
September 10, 2008, 02:17 AM
I just tested out a 45/22 convertible EAA Witness today which is a Tanfoglio with a different name on it. Posted a quickie range report on a thread asking about 22 conversions for Springfield Armory XD. New to me but seems like a very nice gun...well made, good trigger. Hey, I like it.
The 22 conversion will probably fit a Tanfoglio frame. ??
At any rate, I'm about to take up reloading with newly-ought Lee equipment and some 230-grain RN cast bullets bought from Missouri Bullets. If things work out I might try casting in the future.

loop
September 10, 2008, 08:35 AM
I shoot nothing but single-groove cast 230-grain bullets out my Elite Match. It is dead on with groups about. .75 at 10 yards. I've never had an issue cleaning.

About a week ago I fired from a rest at 25 yards and groups were about 2 inches. I'm sure the gun actually shot better, but the front sight covered 2 1/2 inches of the target. I still ripped the one-inch red dot in the center of the target out in nine rounds.

My only advice about the EM would be not to go heavy on the loads. I've found accuracy is best a bit below ball specs with cast bullets.

ultramag44
September 10, 2008, 09:25 AM
Yes, mine is a EAA Witness / Tanfoglio Match .

Tell me about the .22 conversion please.

The 5.6 of HERCO is light, primers look nice and round after firing.

Jim Watson
September 10, 2008, 09:32 AM
NRA did a lot of work on lubes, back when they could spare the time to do some technical stuff instead of full time lobbying to keep the Liberals off our backs. When they developed the Alox-beeswax lube, they found that one groove in a .38 wadcutter was enough.

hags
September 10, 2008, 11:37 AM
My only advice about the EM would be not to go heavy on the loads. I've found accuracy is best a bit below ball specs with cast bullets.

loop,
I've found that the recoil springs in the 9mm and .45 ACP seem a little on the light side. I've replaced the stock springs with higher rated Wolff springs and I seem to be a tad more accurate with the uprated springs in the EMs.


I have not been able to get a LSWC to feed reliably in my EM .45. It shoots everything else from Hornady JHP/XTP to lead ball without failure.

kitsapcharly
September 10, 2008, 02:04 PM
The 22 conversion is another top that fits on the Witness frame. Slide, barrel, rod and spring...just like what you take off to field strip it. Take off one top assembly, put on the other, change mags and you're in business. Only takes a minute.
Only apparent difference other than the small hole at the end of the barrel and the easy slide racking is the sight. The conversion top has fully adjustable target sights and they're easily removable in v-grooves front and rear.
Wish I had the computer skills to add photographs as this is very nice and probably of interest to many but I really don't know how.
EAA Witness is made by Tanfoglio and the conversion is marked made in Italy so they probably made it too. EAA is the American import company but the guns are presumably the same as Tanfoglio. These PROBABLY will fit Tanfoglio and maybe even CX but you'd have to check that with each gun manufacturer.
Very nice addition if you can use it. Shooting thousands of shots is much cheaper with a 22.:)

ultramag44
September 10, 2008, 08:35 PM
Hags said: I have not been able to get a LSWC to feed reliably in my EM .45. It shoots everything else from Hornady JHP/XTP to lead ball without failure.


Yes. I have the mold for the LEE copy of the H&G 68bb (a 200 grainSWC). That bullet was designed for the 1911. It works perfectly in my 2 Taurus PT-1911's (one blue, one stainless).

It will not run through the Witness .45 Match.

However, the round nose, cast lead bullet goes through the Witness Match like poop through a goose! :)

loop
September 11, 2008, 04:08 AM
Hags,

Mine won't feed LSWC either. It literally tears them up. It rips a gash in the brass anywhere form 1/8 inch to 1/4 where the brass catches on the top of the chamber.

I really don't mind shooting light loads. I bought the EM to shoot IDPA because the Kimber I had been shooting was getting a little ratty after more than 100 IDPA matches and daily carry for 10 years.

What really surprised me was going from third place to fifth place in most matches to reeling off seven straight match wins with the Tanfoglio. My record with the Tanfoglio is now 12 wins, three seconds with no failures of any kind.

I rebuilt the Kimber. Now I have two .45 autos that are phenomenal match guns. Both group about 3/4 of an inch at 10 yards and with the lighter loads I can keep them on target round to round for double taps.

I actually went down to a 12-pound spring in the EM. It is 100 percent reliable and leaves the brass between three and six feet to my right.

I'm using 3.5 grains of Bullseye under the 230 LRN. They clock around 780 fps with a standard deviation of 7. The powder is kind of dirty, but I'm kind of anal retentive about cleaning my competition guns anyway. I literally cannot sleep if one of my competition guns is dirty - and I have six of the darn things.

But, the EM may be the best one I've ever owned. And, I spent more money rebuilding the Kimber than I did on the EM, even with the custom parts I added to the EM.

wingman
September 11, 2008, 09:57 AM
I have the witness match in 45acp also shoot mostly plated 230gr rn reloads
I have yet to find a swc that will feed I've always enjoyed shooting 200swc
in my 1911 but the match appears to favor the 230rn so I will stay with that
it is an accurate, pleasant gun to shoot.

hags
September 11, 2008, 10:54 AM
loop,


ha,ha,ha,ha, I have a Kimber that needs a barrel as well.

I suppose if you're shooting light loads then the stock spring is fine.

Eleven pounds? Are your loads at the lower end of the power spectrum? With the stock spring and some factory JHP or similiar I thought the stock spring was a little light. No feeding problems but the brass was flying 6-8' away, and the recoil felt a little heavier than my 1911 which has a 16lb spring.
:D

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