Youth/Teen/Adult Deer Rifle


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jcramin
September 10, 2008, 02:27 PM
I am looking for a deer rifle mainly for my 13 year old. He has lots of experience shooting pistols from .22 up to my .45 1911. The only rifles he has shot are .22 and a customized WWII .30 Cal Carbine.

I need it to be something my 17 year old son could also use and maybe even me when im not shooting my 270 Weatherby.

I was wondering if a .308 or 30-30 would be a good choice.

J

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texastony
September 10, 2008, 02:35 PM
30-30 i think would be perfect for first rifle. 308 can kick with hot loads and light rifle.

millions upon millions of deer and hog have fallin to the obsolete 30-30

t george
September 10, 2008, 02:38 PM
if shots are short the 30 30 works very well with a light recoil and good power out to 100-150 yards or so. if you will have longer shots the 308 is nice and if u reload it can be loaded down for the youngster. if you are not stuck on 30 cal you could explore with the 7mm-08

ctgmi
September 10, 2008, 02:38 PM
I think a .30-30 would be a great choice or if you wanted a bolt action, something chambered for 6.5X55. Donít forget you can also get reduced recoil loads for the .308 but they may be hard to come by.

Shawnee
September 10, 2008, 02:41 PM
The 30/30 would be a great choice if shots are kept within about 225 yds.
Recoil from the 30/30 Marlin 336 is about 11.5 ft/lbs.

The .308 would certainly kill a deer (and a grizzly and a moose). Recoil from it with a 150gr. bullet will be about 15.5 ft/lbs. in an 8lb. gun - similar to your .270 Weatherby.

The .243 is a splendid deer caliber for anyone to use anywhere and has more effective range than most people need to be shooting at game. With 95gr. soft points the recoil from it in a 7.5 lb. gun is about 8.5 ft/lbs.

Other good calibers to consider are the .250 Savage, the .257 Roberts, and the 6mm Remington.

If you are a reloader you could also consider the .25/06 or the 6.5x55 (6.5 Swede) because you could load them down a bit if you needed to. They both come in with recoil figures between the 30/30 and .308.


Good Luck !

:cool:

woof
September 10, 2008, 02:44 PM
I've become a big advocate of the .308 for kids and start them with managed recoil loads. They are not hard to get but you will want to stock up because you can't find them just anywhere. I find them to be very accurate and about the same ballistics as a .30-30 which is great for deer. This means the kid has a .30-30 now (even though he can tell his friends he has a .308) and presto, it becomes a .308 for another family member or for later. Tons of rifles to choose from and you can pick a lightweight that with .308 full loads would almost certainly produce a flinch in a youngster. I picked the Savage 10 Scout Rifle, 20 in barrel and 6 1/4 lbs. Comes with iron sights. Remington model Seven also. Yes you will pay more for a good .308 than a .30-30 but it's like getting 2 rifles in one.

Shawnee
September 10, 2008, 03:23 PM
"Woof" makes a fair point.

The recoil of the .308 "Managed Recoil" ammo in a Remington Model 7 (superb deer rifle) will be about halfway between a standard .243 and a standard 30/30.

Here is a link to Remington's "Managed Recoil" ad....

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/managed-Recoil.asp

They also make "managed recoil" ammo in other popular calibers including the 30/30. However - be sure to review the ballistics of the "managed recoil" ammo on the Remington site too so you know what to expect.


:cool:

357sigRog
September 10, 2008, 03:34 PM
My grandfather, father, myself and my son have all killed our first deer with
the same 30-30 win. It is a good, short, easy to get around rifle that is very
accurate and is a tradition in our family. I have since moved on to a .270 win
and passed the 30-30 down to my sons but I would not be afraid to use it
anytime I go deer hunting.

t george
September 10, 2008, 03:43 PM
you could use the hornady lever revoloution stuff for the 30 30 as well i have not shot any of it but some folks swear by it!

Jst1mr
September 10, 2008, 03:56 PM
Try the .260 Rem...has become all the rage in this area as a "first" rifle that you don't grow out of...soft recoil, good ballistics and effective knockdown power.

Tarvis
September 10, 2008, 04:10 PM
I haven't read anything on the .260 being a good "first rifle" but it is the hot new thing for long range shooting, so the potential is definitely there for the .260.

My vote is .243 or the .260 if you're hand loading, which would be another way to get them interested in shooting; let them help load and explain the process. If you haven't reloaded before, you could learn with them ;). I'm not sure what start-up kits cost, probably something like $350 for a single stage.

Shawnee
September 10, 2008, 04:15 PM
Should have mentioned in my first response..... an effective range of "only" 225-250yds. is not really a handicap. Just ask any of the nation's 5 million black powder deer hunters and bowhunters.

:cool:

KBintheSLC
September 10, 2008, 04:20 PM
My first hunting rifle was a Browning lever action in 7mm-08. It was a great caliber for my then 16 year old, 130lb build. It was very easy to shoot, and I assume that it would work great for a 13 year old as well.

The other option is to jump straight to a 308 using light loads. That way he will never grow out of the rifle.

woof
September 10, 2008, 04:23 PM
I own a .260 and love it but I don't think it is right for the need expressed. A 13 yr old shouldn't even be thinking about taking shots even over 100 yds IMO. I'm also a believer in starting a youngster out with iron sights. The .30-30 is perfect, and for a bit more money the .308 with managed recoil ammo adds a whole new dimension of possibilities. BTW, I also like the Savage 10GY that also comes with iron sights. Or a Stevens 200 or the new Marlin bolt.

Shawnee
September 10, 2008, 04:30 PM
Remington makes "managed recoil" ammo for the 7mm/08 too.

I bought a Remington 700CDL in 7mm/08 for one of my sons and it is an absolute gem.

The "managed recoil" ammo for the 7mm/08 (a 140-grainer) comes very, very close to being a ballistic duplicate of the 30/30 (w/150gr. bullet).
For folks who don't reload that's great news because it means they can get the 30/30 level performance (and recoil) in just about any bolt-action or single-shot 7mm/08 they like. Should be nice in the Browning BLR too.

:cool:

Tarvis
September 10, 2008, 04:55 PM
A 13 yr old shouldn't even be thinking about taking shots even over 100 yds IMO.
Agreed, but someday he will big a big boy like the rest of us ;). I guess you can always buy another rifle, but it seems to me like you can't go wrong with a bolt in an 08 cartridge for all around use. Not to say the 30-30 is not a good choice, maybe it's just what I've been acclimated to. I'm also from the school of "buy one so you don't need to buy another." Either way, you should be good to go.

ArmedBear
September 10, 2008, 05:22 PM
Something to note:

Howa and Weatherby both sell 20" SA rifles based on the same actions, but with different stocks and a few other minor tweaks. They're called "Youth/Compact" models and come with both adult-sized and youth stocks.

Prices are usually pretty good. Currently on sale at a local store here:
http://www.turners.com/engage/ads/09-05-08/howa1500youth.gif

Bob R
September 10, 2008, 05:26 PM
The .243 is a splendid deer caliber for anyone to use anywhere and has more effective range than most people need to be shooting at game. With 95gr. soft points the recoil from it in a 7.5 lb. gun is about 8.5 ft/lbs.

I agree with the .243, it is a gun that can be used by him now and in the future.

I can be used on rodents all the way up to deer sized game. It really excells with light bullets out on the PD fields when the wind is up. It is also IMO the perfect caliber for antelope. With training to make him sure of his shots, there is no reason for him not to take deer with it.

bob

jcramin
September 10, 2008, 05:33 PM
I think I like that idea of a .243 it seems to be a pretty light recoil so my 7 year old daughter will be able to use it soon too.

Thanks for all the help and ideas.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
September 10, 2008, 05:39 PM
I was wondering if a .308 or 30-30 would be a good choice.

YES! to the bolded one. Other perennial recommendations for this category (chambering-wise) are .243 Win, .257 Roberts, .250-3000 Savage, .260 Rem, 6.5x55mm, 7.62x39mm, .45 Colt, and .44 Magnum rifles.

But as mentioned, running with a .308, .270, .30-06 or similar with the Reduced Recoil ("Managed Recoil") loads is a good plan too.

Personally, I consider the 6.5x55mm round in a good turnbolt to be the perfect "deer rifle" to cover all conditions. But the .30-30 Win levergun is also definitely in the top 2 or 3 choices.

an effective range of "only" 225-250yds. is not really a handicap. Just ask any of the nation's 5 million black powder deer hunters and bowhunters.

While true, I would submit that the vast majority of muzzleloader/BP hunters' ACTUAL effective range is around 100-125 yards less than their IMAGINED effective range of 250 as hyped by the makers of muzzleloading rifles, gear and scopes with ballistic reticle marks, purporting to enable hits for: "250 with 150 at 250 in a .50" - I.e. 250 grain sabot slug, .50 cal, 150 gr of BP equiv., at 250 yards. Mind you, effective not meaning what their gear is capable of, but what THEY are capable of as hunters under field conditions.

Regardless, as you say, not really a handicap since the overwhelming vast majority of deer shot with ANY weapon are taken at ranges under 100, and most of them under 75 yards.

The .30-30 Win is real good medicine, AND pretty flat-shooting, at any/all ranges at which the vast majority of hunters can actually make hits. There's no ballistic disadvantage. The only disadvantage may be in the action. In very cold and/or very dirty environments, the turnbolt has the advantage of very positive extraction, in case you need a follow up shot.

Shawnee
September 10, 2008, 06:08 PM
"I think I like that idea of a .243 it seems to be a pretty light recoil so my 7 year old daughter will be able to use it soon too."

Recoil doesn't help any shooter, so the less, the better. By the time your daughter is big enough to fit the rifle she'll be fine with a .243.

I've shot a couple trainloads of deer of all sizes, and at short, long, and extra-long ranges with a .243 and have never lost a single one. Though I like other calibers, the .243 is easily my personal favorite and has been for more years than I am willing to divulge.

:D

ReadyontheRight
September 10, 2008, 09:56 PM
A .244 Remington (6mm) in a Remington 760 pomp was the traditional "first" deer rifle in our family. Very similar to .243. It was a great first gun.

The ONLY problem with a 30-30 lever action as a first gun IMHO is the tube magazine. In our hunting woods, we enforce the rule to unload your gun when you come upone someone in the woods or come into camp. This is easier and safer with a box magazine or a bolt rifle.

I'm partial to the Rem 760 pump, but .243 in a bolt action would be a great intro to centerfire shooting.

45Badger
September 10, 2008, 10:54 PM
Started my oldest on a Model 700 in .243 when he was 12, and could not be happier:).

browningguy
September 10, 2008, 11:32 PM
Personally for the younger ones I like to start with a .243 or a .260/7mm-08 class cartridge. Recoil is easy and it's enough gun to keep them going as an adult. You might look at one of the Weatherby Vanguards, they have a model that comes with a youth and an adult stock, so it works for everyone.

cliffy
September 10, 2008, 11:32 PM
I'm a total advocate of .243 WINNIE POOH prowess. A rifle cartridge designed for everyone! .243-.260-7mm/08-.308 are all based on the same cartridge. The only differences are the smaller the bullet diameter, the higher the velocity, with lesser felt recoil. A .243 Winchester is the perfect round for deer hunting. 100 grain Speer Grand Slam bullets put down deer with authority without damaging a loved-one's shoulder: Great Introduction Bullet for deer hunting. From nine-year-olds on up, I've only heard squeals of joy, and not of pain, while punching holes in paper. Target shooting is the proper way to start, and since no extreme adrenaline is involved in paper target shooting, recoil is the most notable concern. Making a flincher out of any beginner is the very WORST long-term scenario. But to tell a child he or she just fired a viable round that could stop a deer in its tracks, equates into the stuff that makes a hunter proud, especially when it does not HURT physically at all. This is the beauty of what a .243 Winchester round is all about. cliffy

Auburn1992
September 10, 2008, 11:33 PM
Another vote for either a 30-30 or 7mm-08

(Depending on your location and how far you may shoot)

Deer Hunter
September 10, 2008, 11:58 PM
Woof,

A 13 yr old shouldn't even be thinking about taking shots even over 100 yds IMO.

I was expected to be able to shoot a deer at 100 yards with a scope by the time I was 13. I was already hunting with an SKS since I was 9 with my dad.

Different family I guess!

rklessdriver
September 11, 2008, 10:35 AM
I'm surprised no has recommended a 1894 Winchester (or Marlin) in .44 Mag or .357 Mag. Recoil is non existant and it is plenty accurate/powerful for deer out to 100yrs.

Other than that, the 30-30 has been THE first deer rifle for probally 85% of Amercian hunters for a very good reason.
Will

ReadyontheRight
September 11, 2008, 11:49 AM
Look under the Trading Post section here on THR. A member has a Rem 700 youth in .243 for sale.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=392097

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