Getting into LR shooting...rifle/optics recommendations?


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ANDROTAZ
September 10, 2008, 06:55 PM
I've recently been bitten by the long-range rifle bug, and was just doing some thinking about what setup I might want to pursue...granted I've got several things on my list before this rifle; I just wanted to think it over.

This rifle will not be solely a bench gun. I plan to hunt with it. I plan on later putting together a serious LR package that WILL be solely for bench/prone shooting. but this ain't it. That said, I want very good accuracy out to 7-800 yards. Until I'm seriously proficient to that range, I have no reason for something that will necessarily reach out and tag something at 1000.

I also plan to get into custom rifles in the future, just not sure if I wanna go that way just yet...I want to really hone my gunsmithing skills before that.

All that said, I've been looking into Remington's LTR in .308. I've read lots of threads here and other places and it seems to be a hit over at snipercentral. So here's the question...if I want a rifle whose trigger, barrel, and stock are all more than capable of accuracy and precision at 700 yards, is the LTR (with a possible trigger upgrade) worth it? Or would it be more worthwhile to start with a 700 action and put a high-dollar stock, barrel, and trigger on it? I just noticed a lot of hate on the Remington triggers and barrels.

Also, as far as optics...I really like the Zeiss conquests; I was thinking one of the 4.5-14's...what about objective? 44 or 50?

Thanks y'all...sorry for the long post.

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spuscg
September 10, 2008, 06:57 PM
im looking into a 600 yard gun, i was recomended the .308 remington700vdl.

what is it ive been hearing about needing a bedding job? i heard these were moa out of the box

browningguy
September 10, 2008, 07:13 PM
Here's one I built last year, Savage 12 FV in .243, Weaver 6.5-20 Grand Slam Scope, Sharp Shooter Supply LVT stock. It holds 1/2 moa out to 600 yards which is the farthest I have shot it so far.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jcm9371/Rifles/savage12fv2.jpg

Probably the best deal going is the Savage 12 F/TR in .308. It's set up from the factory with an 8 oz. trigger, 30" barrel and will shoot better than most of us at 1000 yards for around $1K. I'd highly recommend a 6 or 6.5mm round if you don't go with .308, personally I like the 6 and 6.5's because of the lighter recoil, it makes a difference to me after 20-30 rounds. But if you are going to shoot F-TR you are limited to .223 and .308. For scopes I really like my 20x, and I wouldn't mind a 24 or 32x on the high end. I have a 14.5x on my .300 winnie, and while I can use it at 600 it really helps me to have a little more on the power ring.

As far as the Remmy goes there are lots of accurate rifles built on the 700 action. If you are going to compete at all you will rarely be competitive with a stock barrel though. They are decent, just not consistantly highly accurate like a Lilja etc. It will most likely need trigger work, but I have not shot a very recent stock 700 trigger so maybe they have improved. And you will almost certainly need to bed the action correctly.

skinewmexico
September 10, 2008, 07:23 PM
When you say shooting long distance, what do you mean? Is that F-Class, or just trying to hit a 12" plate? A 14 power scope will work for steel plated, but I sure like more power for F-Class @ 500. I've got 24X on both of my F-Class rifles, with the fine dot. Be carefeul that the reticule on whatever scope you buy doesn't hide the target @ 500. I'd have Nightforce scopes if my wife would let me.

+1 on the 6.5 round, unless you just like lobbing 308s. Can't help you on the rifle, all my LD guns are Savages I rebarreled myself.

ANDROTAZ
September 10, 2008, 07:24 PM
Sweet rifle, man.

The reason I like the LTR is because of the 20" bbl...it's light and very maneuverable, which is good, because like I said, I'll be hunting with it. I'd rather not lug around a 26-30" barreled gun (like the 700P) in the woods.

Again, I do plan on in the future building up a dedicated LR shooter...just not right now. My biggest concern I guess is how good certain aspects of the LTR really are. I definitely want a rifle that will always shoot better than I do...hence the questions about the Remington trigger and barrel.

ANDROTAZ
September 10, 2008, 07:27 PM
When you say shooting long distance, what do you mean? Is that F-Class, or just trying to hit a 12" plate? A 14 power scope will work for steel plated, but I sure like more power for F-Class @ 500. I've got 24X on both of my F-Class rifles, with the fine dot. Be carefeul that the reticule on whatever scope you buy doesn't hide the target @ 500.

+1 on the 6.5 round, unless you just like lobbing 308s. Can't help you on the rifle, all my LD guns are Savages I rebarreled myself.

I don't mean competitively...I just mean "long-range plinking" more than anything. Just testing myself...seeing how far I can shoot out in the pasture.

What do you mean by "lobbing .308s"?

Keep in mind that I also plan to hunt deer with this.

spuscg
September 10, 2008, 07:35 PM
im thinking more of consistently hitting a 10 or 12 inch plate at 600 yards, more competing against friends than big competitions, plus have an awesome hunting/homeland defense rifle

ANDROTAZ
September 10, 2008, 08:04 PM
im thinking more of consistently hitting a 10 or 12 inch plate at 600 yards, more competing against friends than big competitions, plus have an awesome hunting/homeland defense rifle

exactly.

spuscg
September 10, 2008, 08:23 PM
i was recommended the vls but not a scope power/type, id want an uber easy to use scope though

9mmepiphany
September 10, 2008, 10:54 PM
to optimize you shooting, you might take a look at the .260 round.

it will do everything the .308 will with less recoil and less fuss. the 6.5mm round pretty much rules the LR game right now and is a light recoiling round which is more than capable of taking anything in North America.

the .260 is a 6.5x55mm sized for a short action.

if you'd like to save some money without giving up any accuracy, you might like to take a hard look at the Savage rifles/actions too.

when you are ready o more to a serious LR rifle, i think the best buy on the market is the Savage 12 F Class in 6.5-284 Norma

spuscg
September 10, 2008, 11:15 PM
ammo cost is a factor too though even reloading 260 may be up there, at 40 a box compared to 16 for 308

oldgold
September 10, 2008, 11:53 PM
Cn't knock Remingtons. I got a couple and love them. Problem is the two Savages I've got are more accurate.

But a Savage, B&C stock, or Choate,a barrel wrench and a couple of barrels and you are set. Until you have the expertise and equipment to switch 700 barrels, you can play around with the Savage.

I like the .308 for 400 yards and under but it's hard to beat a 6.5-284 for really long range. You will have to reload anyway for best accuracy so cost is not that much different.

Just my opinion only because I've been there.

skinewmexico
September 11, 2008, 01:37 AM
What do you mean by "lobbing .308s"?

Compared to most of the family of 6.5s, shooting a 308 @ 800-1000 is lobbing. Not the optimum LR cartridge. I screwed up a relay in a 500 yard F-Class match, because I started listening to the 308 guys talk about how much they were holding off. I'm new, figured I should too with my 6.5x47L. I was out of the scoring rings on the target.

But shooting a 12" plate @ 600 isn't that big of a deal, using a 223 up. Just run a good ballistics program, and turn some clicks in.

rangerruck
September 11, 2008, 02:35 AM
from 600 on in , I would say anything in 223 or 308, from 600 on out, i would say anything from 6mm to 7mm, including wsm's. I likey a nice 243, or a 260, or a grendel, or a 270wsm, or a 7mm/300wsm. or a 6.5 creedmoor, or a 6x47 even, or even a nice 6.5 swedish never dissapoints. as for the rifle maker, you could go custom, but that will cost a ton, and for glass, the usual suspects are all good for starters; Super sniper, nightforce, leupold, burris, nikon, bushnell 4200,
nikko sterling, meopta, IOR, and many others.

rangerruck
September 11, 2008, 02:36 AM
check here for many cal suggestions...
http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html

rangerruck
September 11, 2008, 02:38 AM
oh yeah, a factory savag 12 ftr is double tough, and I think they are gonna make a few new cals for it, like maybe a 260, and a 6ppc, and a few others
that is a very good jump off point for a factory rifle, proly about as best as you can get really, for under 1000 bucks.

9mmepiphany
September 11, 2008, 02:40 AM
.308 was the king of long distance for quite awhile. it was superceded by the 7mm which was then thumped by the various 6.5mm cartridges.

for an improvement over the 6.5mm, you'd need to go to the .338...but then there's alot more punishment involved

MountainWalk
September 11, 2008, 04:11 AM
I would suggest 300 win mag or ultra mag, hook up with a Remington 700 or a Savage 116. Use rock solid steel one piece mounts with dovetail rings, and practice practice practice.

The 30 cals do well at holding momentum and energy at longer ranges.

MountainWalk
September 11, 2008, 04:13 AM
a Savage 116ss 338 win mag is one of the most accurate of rifles I own. The pillar bedding is a nice touch and Savage has some great barrels.

rangerruck
September 11, 2008, 05:01 AM
there is a varmint version of that savage listed above as well, lighter, slightly slimmer tube because it has taper, and more of a walking around stock.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
September 11, 2008, 12:19 PM
Read up here:

http://demigodllc.com/articles.php

and here:

http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html

and you will become enlightened, grasshopper. :)


By the way, if Zak Smith happens to come along and read this, we all REALLY have to have a talk with the Wikipedia people - they think you're an artist:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zak_Smith :p

jburnett
September 11, 2008, 12:45 PM
I have a Winchester Mod 70 Sharpshooter in .308... It has worn a benchrest style Nikon (6.5x20x44) scope on it since I bought it in 1994 or '95. I have a Leupold MKIV Tactical that has a fixed 10x and a mil-dot reticle that has been "going on it" for several years now but hasn't made it there yet... Still haven't found a reason. I've shot this rifle at 100-1000 yds... At 100 yds in shoots literal 5-shot 1/4 MOA groups with handloaded 168 gr. rounds. It's still sub MOA at 600 and opens to MOA at 800... At 1000 the bullet is dropping to subsonic and starts to yaw considerably but it will still hit an 18" bull consistently (it might keyhole, but it's there). Increase bullet weight to 173 or 175 and it's still moving supersonic and it is considerably more accurate... However, the .308 is pretty heavily limited at 1000 yds. But, how often are you REALLY going to shoot that far?? We used to have a range here in AR. called "Elbow Mountain" and they did monthly 1k shoots, I participated in enough of them to purchase a 300 Win. Mag. (Win 70 action/Lilja bbl/McMillan stock)... But out to 800 the .308 is HARD to beat and the commonality of the round itself, its intrinsic accuracy, low recoil, and its effectiveness on just about any game on this continent (and most others as well if you "do your job") makes it the hands down choice in my mind.

Rifles are easy... Such a myriad of choices these days. You can pick a varmint/tactical from any of the big mfg's... Savage's little bolt rifles have gained a great following, I have little experience with them but have a couple of budget-oriented friends that swear by them. Remington's ubiquitous 700PSS and Varminters, Ruger's Varmint 77's, and the Winchester's just to name a few. You'd be hard pressed to find a better autoloading .308 than a M1A/M14... A good FAL... An AR/308 style... Just depends on your budget.
-J.Burnett

Old Grump
September 11, 2008, 03:08 PM
308 is like the 30-30, under appreciated by the gee whiz guys that can shoot a little flatter with a smaller faster bullet. It was good 50 years ago and its good now. I competed at 1000 yard matches with the 308 and did fine, not a winner but I kept everything on paper which is more than some of the gee whiz guys did. I also use it for deer hunting with a single shot rifle because so far thats all the shots I need. Graf has brass for reloading or loaded bullets, not a problem. You can get scopes for the K31 but I'm happy with the iron sights, I just have to remember my lowest setting is zeroed for 200 meters, still good enough for 100 as long as you are willing to put a little Kentucky on your point of aim. Its a fun gun to shoot and I enjoy it. I would go for the Savage though for price/quality, easier to scope and easier to find parts for if you are going to do enough shooting that things start to wear out.

skinewmexico
September 11, 2008, 03:24 PM
Interesting........I use a 6.5X55 at modern pressures, and I'm a "gee whiz" guy. Maybe I am, I use a circular saw instead of a hand saw too...........

Anyway.............you would be hard pressed to find another cartridge beside the 308 with a better barrel life, and the amount of load/shooting documentation on it is staggering. I don't know why, but I'm just not a 308 guy though.

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